[Wand of a right foot]

As things stand, I'd ship himself out. Simply not good enough for a club like Man Utd.

 

[Fortitude]

Some of you would be in for a shock to see what an able striker would give this team, seriously. I really don't have any ill will towards the kid, but playing with him is like playing a man down a lot of the time, and if you're watching other PL teams, let alone ones with good to very good strikers in them, you see how much they bring their whole team forward and into the play whilst preoccupying CB's, DM's and FB's depending on how they run and drift.

What I'm seeing in a lot of posts is damning with faint praise, which is putting Hojlund in a considerably worse light than intended. When the team actually plays well, those who aren't doing so stand out more, and there's no hiding from the fact that people have little hesitation in praising those who turn things around from previously having a bad game to coming good in another. Martinez is a good example, as he was on a similar run of poor performance to Hojlund who has really come out top trumps from Sunday's game with many - including myself who didn't even want him in the starting xi - holding their hands up and calling a good game a good game. Some people have been gunning for Mainoo prior to this game, too who were not hesitant in saying he played well. Point is, Hojlund is not being held to some unique scrutiny or exacting standard; people can see he isn't having good games nor doing much well or right, and in games like this one, he's fairly considered the weak link because with someone else in that position who is doing what you want/need your striker to do, it's no exaggeration to state it would be transformative for the team.

It's crazy how quick people have been to dump on Zirkzee, as if Hojlund is doing more or better. There's no denying that Zirkzee is not hitting the required standard either, but the way he's talked about in contrast to Hojlund really is something. It's not just that Hojlund only has 2 goals in 15 games, it's that he looks like someone who would and should have a low tally when he plays. The ongoing denial or defence of his poor movement is quite absurd when you can see many times a game that he is not making the right runs even as play breaks and the team is haring off in different directions. Subsequently, the amount of times his teammates are then remonstrating with him is evident. The blame for his poor movement used to be placed at the agreeably greedy feet of Rashford and/or Garnacho, who were more likely to do things that favoured themselves over *any* centre forward. Problem is, one will probably never kit up for us again and the other barely features of late. They clearly were not the reason why Rasmus was not making the runs you want to see from your striker.

I can't help but notice also that there is an excessive amount of comments on the runs he makes that are the right ones; his link up with Martinez for example. It's fair to say they have some sort of understanding going, but what I don't think people mentioning these correct runs realise is that the entire league (sans Southampton) have strikers making equally able runs, the difference is they are doing it far more often than not, and the better strikers, it's not something that is talked about much (unless they are godlike at it) as it's a prerequisite that should go without saying. The same goes with hold up play or team interaction, the really good strikers are not only taking the ball, they are twisting and turning and being a handful using guile as well as skill that has the game freeze for split seconds as nobody is entirely sure of what they'll do next, but their own teammates know that it's more than likely to be beneficial to them so they're already beginning committed runs; shooting off in different directions, or sprinting into open space, making themselves available for 1-2's or potential short passing chains. Even watching Wolves vs Forest, a low key game, you see this in abundance. It is not something you see with us. Our players don't really put faith into Hojlund's play and they're definitely not using him as a conduit to get their own game going. They should [be able to], but that element of uncertainty and perhaps distrust has good reason to be there - his play does not engender the kind of confidence that the team need for it to be relied upon and it's a genuine problem for our midfielders as they can't ping things up to a focal point and then play off it, where it's bread and butter throughout the league at other teams. The same goes for the flanking runs I mentioned earlier; he doesn't break from CB's enough for others to be certain a clever breakaway action is certain enough for them to wait on him, so invariably, he gets bypassed, much to his own frustration, but it's logical and by-product of how he plays.

To me, it constantly bounces back to him being raw. He is often called outright bad or incapable, but the overwhelming feeling I get is that he is raw and uncertain, hence why things are so erratic with him; once in a while, the ball will stick, or he will make a good run, but that 'once in a while' is why he shouldn't be the starter, as until it's 'frequent and certain', it's simply not the standard demanded of a PL striker. At the moment, I seriously doubt any side in the league would have Hojlund as their #9. He is par with Southampton's Adam Armstrong for goals and it's questionable whether he offers more than him in-game at the moment. There's nothing to Hojlund's game other sides are crying out for. Again, I don't say this to damn the kid, rather, to point out that he is very raw, and predictably unreliable because of it. Nobody would be eager to take on a 2 in 15 striker who is showing no attributes you can put the house on, so it is pretty surreal that some believe we should be doing so, perhaps unaware it's doing the kid more harm than good. He looks worse now than when he got here and that's because his confidence has been shorn as well as the education in Atalanta's system that was starting to bear fruit, where he was in and out of the team learning his craft at a pace that was constructive and beneficial

Of all the clubs in England, we're the absolute worst to be trying to find yourself and your game at. You get no grace period, and every flaw you have is on display to a global audience. On top of that, the media really aren't looking out for your best interests over what garners the most engagement. When you are as raw as Hojlund, is that what you need?

The upcoming run of games, as well as the January window will give us more insight. There's a bit more time for Hojlund to work with the coaches and try and modify his game, angling it away from what it currently is. It's also a weaker run of teams with inferior defenders, which means more breathing room. You'd like to think that this is when we'll see Hojlund up his goal tally and performance level and show the signs of improvement that buy him more time to outright stake his claim. If we've not got a striker in by the start of Feb, we're really going to give him the season to come good. Even those of you who don't seem to want to acknowledge reasons to be concerned will be of a different mindset if over the next 15 PL games we see the same output as the first 15. 4 in 30 with the same performance output would be a dreadful campaign. That's an output Armstrong - arguably the worst starting striker in the worst team in the division - would expect to outdo. You cannot be the lead striker at Manchester United with those numbers, so there's going to have to be a massive upswing.

We have 18 games left. An interesting question to pose is: what do people consider a healthy return for Rasmus to be in those 18 games, assuming he starts or features in them all?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Needs to show what he’s capable of quickly. So far, he looks a tremendous waste of money. While it’s all well and good to cite his age, we can’t have a key role let alone that of a starter being wasted by a sub-par player. Barring that one nice run last season - judging his football qualities, his technique, movement and aerial prowess are all weak. If that notion is repeatedly confirmed, then you can’t keep hanging in just because he’s 21.

Ideally we’d send him out on loan but with Zirkzee not quite working out we’ve shot ourselves in the foot. Hopefully he shows signs of a serious talent in the next 5 months.

 

[marcus agrippa]

I actually thought his performance against Liverpool was good given the lack of service he got and how I felt he ran the channels well, even retaining possession well on several occasions.

This 'lack of service' line needs retiring. Last season as McT kept scoring, sometimes literally ahead of Hojlund, I would think: "Why's he taking up Hojlund's positions?" Now I know better.

Hojlund was put through one-on-one against Liverpool, and had a cross that better movement would have given him a tap-in opportunity for. One can't really expect much more at Anfield.

 

[marcus agrippa]

@tomaldinho1 : this is what was promised, especially the first play. He has it in him. Needs to raise his game massively. The PL is different.

 

[AR87]

This 'lack of service' line needs retiring. Last season as McT kept scoring, sometimes literally ahead of Hojlund, I would think: "Why's he taking up Hojlund's positions?" Now I know better.

Hojlund was put through one-on-one against Liverpool, and had a cross that better movement would have given him a tap-in opportunity for. One can't really expect much more at Anfield.

In the post you quoted I literally cited those same broad issues, I simply said the performance vs Liverpool was ok.

He needs to generally produce more. I'm not even disagreeing with that, just don't think that match is a great example of the issues I have with him overall.

 

[astracrazy]

I actually thought his performance against Liverpool was good given the lack of service he got and how I felt he ran the channels well, even retaining possession well on several occasions.

I do generally agree his first touch can be very shaky, hold up play not great, shot creation is lacking, and isn't in sync when players are in crossing positions.

I'd definitely give him time though given the fee we paid, his age, and that he has shown himself to be an above average finisher now when he does get chances.

That old chestnut.

He got plenty, or would have. He either doesn't make the run or runs in the wrong place.

Martinez had a go at him after he lost the ball on the edge of their area because Hojlund didn't move. Is that lack of service or is that on Hojlund? Hojlund got played in for a one on one and fluffed it, and there was plenty more passes made to him yet he does his normal where he runs behind the defender.

The "lack of service" is on him.

 

[romufc]

This 'lack of service' line needs retiring. Last season as McT kept scoring, sometimes literally ahead of Hojlund, I would think: "Why's he taking up Hojlund's positions?" Now I know better.

Hojlund was put through one-on-one against Liverpool, and had a cross that better movement would have given him a tap-in opportunity for. One can't really expect much more at Anfield.

This is one of the biggest things. Whilst there might be some truths to it, lack of service is totally on him.

Take the Liverpool game for example, when he made a clever run, he got put through and missed, that can happen.

However; if the striker is not going to make intelligent runs, how is one meant to find him?

There was a chance where Bruno was through on the left and put the ball in the box, Hojlund was behind VVD when an intellgent ST makes a run infront of him and gets a front post tap in, so many times he gets into positions the ball cannot get to him.

That is one for crosses and cut backs, but his hold up play is also so bad, so many times the ball is played into him and he is so clumsy with it. If he could hold the ball up, players would be confident playing it into him and making runs, at the moment, they are scared as it bounces of for a counter attack.

He is 21 but he needs to make massive improvements to his all round play.

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

That old chestnut.

He got plenty, or would have. He either doesn't make the run or runs in the wrong place.

Martinez had a go at him after he lost the ball on the edge of their area because Hojlund didn't move. Is that lack of service or is that on Hojlund? Hojlund got played in for a one on one and fluffed it, and there was plenty more passes made to him yet he does his normal where he runs behind the defender.

The "lack of service" is on him.

Is it me that even that chance Amad had where he tried to head the ball is where Hojlund should be as our striker?

I mention it only because i see alot of shots or headers in the box by other players but Hojlund never seems to be the right place at the right time.

There was another match this season where Amad scored a header at the back post - and im wondering why Hojlund is never getting in to these positions to score a header at the back post yet our wide attacking midfielders are.

Hojlund should be able to score at both ends of the post and centrally as our striker.

Honestly he hardly does any of those 3 because his positioning is so so bad.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

We should get Liam Delap, Hojlund cant hold the ball up, win most of the duels for his size, is subpar in the air and his movement is questionable. He also seems to be able only run in the straight line.

Sure he's young and developing but his first touch is sometimes Lukaku level and we need strikers to hold the ball up better, otherqwise we are loosing another dimension to our attack.

 

[golden_blunder]

We should have a limit on the maximum number of words used in one single post

 

[astracrazy]

Is it me that even that chance Amad had where he tried to head the ball is where Hojlund should be as our striker?

I mention it only because i see alot of shots or headers in the box by other players but Hojlund never seems to be the right place at the right time.

There was another match this season where Amad scored a header at the back post - and im wondering why Hojlund is never getting in to these positions to score a header at the back post yet our wide attacking midfielders are.

Hojlund should be able to score at both ends of the post and centrally as our striker.

Honestly he hardly does any of those 3 because his positioning is so so bad.

It came down to poor movement and not reading the game.

He went to make an early run from the half way line which wasn't on at all, there #5 had him well covered so rightly the pass wasn't made. He stopped, turned and went back towards the half way line. Our players then started to make runs and Liverpool dropped off. It's not like his run even created space.

He was then playing catch up.

Video

 

[tomaldinho1]

@tomaldinho1 : this is what was promised, especially the first play. He has it in him. Needs to raise his game massively. The PL is different.

He does still do it, people just focus on when something doesn't go right. @Denis79 as well for ease of replying/not clogging the thread.

I saw the clip, it's shame it's so short because it would be more telling to see where Rasmus started but I don't think it's that damning. The reality is he should either go front or far post and Bruno looks up to see where he is before playing the pass, which is odd because he's clearly behind VVD when he does so. One thing I will say is I can't tell if it hits Konate on the way through and was actually meant to be a much firmer pass, but if it was a near post pass I think Bruno is more at 'fault' even if it's not really that massive an error from either in the grand scheme of things. It certainly wouldn't be a tap in for Hojlund given he is behind VVD.

This highlights what I would call the hindsight analysis I mentioned before i.e. its only after the ball is played people will say 'Hojlund should have gone near post', if Bruno had played a cross field ball and Hojlund went near post they would then be criticising him for that. If you freeze the video when it begins, Hojlund has got himself into a great position i.e. he has dropped into VVD's blindspot and the latter has really committed to the near post. Hojlund has to commit one way, which he does, but the pass doesn't come. Much of it is understanding and familiarity but th eonus there, for me, is on the passer because he can see where Hojlund is moving towards.

I'm not saying he's amazing at it but it really doesn't seem to be as crippling an issue as people claim, there are surely better examples than this video though. I think his touch recently is a bigger worry, plus his finishing because for the type of team we are right now, where we aren't really creating lots of clear chances, the tough part for a 21 year old is you aren't getting a lot of sympathy from fans if you aren't super clinical, and he has missed good chances in both games now. I will go back to service though, we just aren't a team that crosses, and so you're immediately taking a lot of the potential supply away from him - this season we are 16th for crosses with 308, way behind teams we would consider 'rivals' - top is 450 - and so attacking quality around him, specifically because the WBs are wingers in Amorim's system makes me think he deserves more time/patience. He grafts, he's improved his hold up play, he runs channels all game and we know he's usually clinical in the box.

 

[crazysherlock]

I feel like a lot of defense of Hojlund comes from the fact that we paid 70 million for him. The thinking seems to be that we paid that much money so he must be good and we only need to give him time to grow into a proper striker. His performances have been mediocre, he has not scored that many goals so it should mean that he is not receiving any service. The defense of Hojlund seems to be backed up by deceptive stats about his finishing percentage which is very high.

Why do I feel that his shot conversion percentage is very deceptive? It is because of another key stat: total shots/90, which is 1 this season. Yes, Hojlund takes an average of 1 shot every 90 minutes. Compare this to garnacho who has 3.4 shots per 90, or diallo who has 2.2 shots per 90 or zirkzee who has 2 shots per 90. Even yoro averages 1.1 per 90.

To check how Hojlund compares to other young attacker in the top 5 leauges, I looked into whoscored player stats for positions (ST, AML, AMC, AMR) , age<24 and appearances more than 10. This criteria gives a total of 152 players. Here are Hojlunds stats per 90 minutes:

Rating	6.32	121th
Total shots	1	145th
Total shots in penalty area	0.6	137th
Total shots in 6 yard box	0.1	81th
Total shots out of box	0.3	122th
Total shots from open play	0.8	138th
Total shots from counter attack	0.2	78th
Total shots from set piece	0	-
Total shots from right foot	0.1	138th
Total shots from left foot	0.9	55th
Total shots from head	0	-
Goals	0.2	101th
Goals - penalty area	0.2	77th
Goals out of box	0	-
Goals 6 yard box	0	-
Total dribbles	1.8	127th
Successfull dribbles	0.6	129th
Unsuccessful touches	3.3	121th
Dispossessed	1.2	37th
Aerial	5	29th
Aerial Won	1.4	49th
Aerial lost	3.6	132th
Passes	15	139th
Long Balls	0	-
Accurate short passes	11.9	126th
Accurate crosses	0.1	110th
Key passes	0.8	122th
Assists	0	-
Total attempted tackles	0.5	149th
Total tackels successfull	0.2	146th
Total interceptions	0.1	126th
Passes blocked	0.2	137th
Shots blocked	0	-
Crosses blocked	0	-

In Summary: Rasmus Hojlund does not have a single elite attribute. He is a poor striker, poor in possession and poor in defense, with an almost non-existent ariel game. He has not attempted a single shot from head, or from a set piece. This leads to the much bandied about stat about his elite shot conversion. To properly check if hojlunds conversion rate is elite or not, we have to remove shots from headers and set pieces for other attackers.

 

[AR87]

That old chestnut.

He got plenty, or would have. He either doesn't make the run or runs in the wrong place.

Martinez had a go at him after he lost the ball on the edge of their area because Hojlund didn't move. Is that lack of service or is that on Hojlund? Hojlund got played in for a one on one and fluffed it, and there was plenty more passes made to him yet he does his normal where he runs behind the defender.

The "lack of service" is on him.

Martinez and him weren't on the same wavelength. Again, in the post you replied to I didn't state that he has no issues and is totally not at fault for the lack of attempt or involvement he has, generally speaking.

All I said was that I thought the Liverpool match wasn't a great example of those issues, whereas in others it's far more grating. I'm not absolving him of all blame across the season, obviously.

 

[astracrazy]

Martinez and him weren't on the same wavelength. Again, in the post you replied to I didn't state that he has no issues and is totally not at fault for the lack of attempt or involvement he has, generally speaking.

All I said was that I thought the Liverpool match wasn't a great example of those issues, whereas in others it's far more grating. I'm not absolving him of all blame across the season, obviously.

That's fair enough.

I just meant with the chestnut comment that I saw that said a lot last season and this season still, and I don't think it flies. At some point lack of service has to be because he isn't serviceable. I think even in the Liverpool game you can see his movement, and actually reading of the game, are lacking. Even the Amad miss timed header, he doesn't seem to be on the same wavelength as everyone else in the build up.

The bottom line with Hojlund is we got the player we brought. The price tag has just convinced people we were getting much more.

 

[Smores]

That's fair enough.

I just meant with the chestnut comment that I saw that said a lot last season and this season still, and I don't think it flies. At some point lack of service has to be because he isn't serviceable. I think even in the Liverpool game you can see his movement, and actually reading of the game, are lacking. Even the Amad miss timed header, he doesn't seem to be on the same wavelength as everyone else in the build up.

I was watching Scholes and Owen call out how poor he is prior to the Liverpool game and whilst they're often miserable they do know a thing or two.

He's just not ready and he'd benefit massively from a senior striker coming in so he can copy their movements.

There aren't many strikers who can get away with not being an aerial threat whilst also not making well timed runs.

 

[rockhopperpenguin21]

Andy Cole won the Golden Boot the season before he joined us.

And failed to continue that streak once he joined. There are no guarantees, players have to fit the system. Thankfully Fergie was smart enough to see the need to get Yorkie in. United's past is littered with strikers who failed. The pressure is immense. I'm just asking for the lad to be given a chance.

 

[marcus agrippa]

He does still do it, people just focus on when something doesn't go right. @Denis79 as well for ease of replying/not clogging the thread.

I saw the clip, it's shame it's so short because it would be more telling to see where Rasmus started but I don't think it's that damning. The reality is he should either go front or far post and Bruno looks up to see where he is before playing the pass, which is odd because he's clearly behind VVD when he does so. One thing I will say is I can't tell if it hits Konate on the way through and was actually meant to be a much firmer pass, but if it was a near post pass I think Bruno is more at 'fault' even if it's not really that massive an error from either in the grand scheme of things. It certainly wouldn't be a tap in for Hojlund given he is behind VVD.

This highlights what I would call the hindsight analysis I mentioned before i.e. its only after the ball is played people will say 'Hojlund should have gone near post', if Bruno had played a cross field ball and Hojlund went near post they would then be criticising him for that. If you freeze the video when it begins, Hojlund has got himself into a great position i.e. he has dropped into VVD's blindspot and the latter has really committed to the near post. Hojlund has to commit one way, which he does, but the pass doesn't come. Much of it is understanding and familiarity but th eonus there, for me, is on the passer because he can see where Hojlund is moving towards.

I'm not saying he's amazing at it but it really doesn't seem to be as crippling an issue as people claim, there are surely better examples than this video though. I think his touch recently is a bigger worry, plus his finishing because for the type of team we are right now, where we aren't really creating lots of clear chances, the tough part for a 21 year old is you aren't getting a lot of sympathy from fans if you aren't super clinical, and he has missed good chances in both games now. I will go back to service though, we just aren't a team that crosses, and so you're immediately taking a lot of the potential supply away from him - this season we are 16th for crosses with 308, way behind teams we would consider 'rivals' - top is 450 - and so attacking quality around him, specifically because the WBs are wingers in Amorim's system makes me think he deserves more time/patience. He grafts, he's improved his hold up play, he runs channels all game and we know he's usually clinical in the box.

Three points:

1) The run begins at the edge of our attacking third, well outside the box. That's where VVD scans, which he does ONCE and never again. He knows where Hojlund is, and Hojlund just continues running as he started.

2) It isn't hindsight analysis. I was screaming at the time for him to make the near post run. There was no way that ball is going to curve around VVD without Alison collecting it. Physics is physics.

3) Been rewatching some old Giroud goals. He does VVD near post for France using that exact movement. Actually a harder chance since it's from a near-standing start: jink, then nip in near post. VVD wrongfooted.

All this is what a good striker instinctively does. Sniffs a goal scoring position and gets there, or at least affects the movements of the defender. Like I said, McT often did it ahead of him last season when we were chasing a goal. At the time, I thought he was taking up Hojlund's space, but now I realize McT probably has better instincts.

 

[MalBot]

Three points:

1) The run begins at the edge of our attacking third, well outside the box. That's where VVD scans, which he does ONCE and never again. He knows where Hojlund is, and Hojlund just continues running as he started.

2) It isn't hindsight analysis. I was screaming at the time for him to make the near post run. There was no way that ball is going to curve around VVD without Alison collecting it. Physics is physics.

3) Been rewatching some old Giroud goals. He does VVD near post for France using that exact movement. Actually a harder chance since it's from a near-standing start: jink, then nip in near post. VVD wrongfooted.

All this is what a good striker instinctively does. Sniffs a goal scoring position and gets there, or at least affects the movements of the defender. Like I said, McT often did it ahead of him last season when we were chasing a goal. At the time, I thought he was taking up Hojlund's space, but now I realize McT probably has better instincts.

this is from last night's game between Nottingham Forest and Wolves. At 2:00, this was almost same situation except Wood makes the run to the near post and scores because of that.

 

[Bobski]

I feel like a lot of defense of Hojlund comes from the fact that we paid 70 million for him. The thinking seems to be that we paid that much money so he must be good and we only need to give him time to grow into a proper striker. His performances have been mediocre, he has not scored that many goals so it should mean that he is not receiving any service. The defense of Hojlund seems to be backed up by deceptive stats about his finishing percentage which is very high.

Why do I feel that his shot conversion percentage is very deceptive? It is because of another key stat: total shots/90, which is 1 this season. Yes, Hojlund takes an average of 1 shot every 90 minutes. Compare this to garnacho who has 3.4 shots per 90, or diallo who has 2.2 shots per 90 or zirkzee who has 2 shots per 90. Even yoro averages 1.1 per 90.

To check how Hojlund compares to other young attacker in the top 5 leauges, I looked into whoscored player stats for positions (ST, AML, AMC, AMR) , age<24 and appearances more than 10. This criteria gives a total of 152 players. Here are Hojlunds stats per 90 minutes:

Rating	6.32	121th
Total shots	1	145th
Total shots in penalty area	0.6	137th
Total shots in 6 yard box	0.1	81th
Total shots out of box	0.3	122th
Total shots from open play	0.8	138th
Total shots from counter attack	0.2	78th
Total shots from set piece	0	-
Total shots from right foot	0.1	138th
Total shots from left foot	0.9	55th
Total shots from head	0	-
Goals	0.2	101th
Goals - penalty area	0.2	77th
Goals out of box	0	-
Goals 6 yard box	0	-
Total dribbles	1.8	127th
Successfull dribbles	0.6	129th
Unsuccessful touches	3.3	121th
Dispossessed	1.2	37th
Aerial	5	29th
Aerial Won	1.4	49th
Aerial lost	3.6	132th
Passes	15	139th
Long Balls	0	-
Accurate short passes	11.9	126th
Accurate crosses	0.1	110th
Key passes	0.8	122th
Assists	0	-
Total attempted tackles	0.5	149th
Total tackels successfull	0.2	146th
Total interceptions	0.1	126th
Passes blocked	0.2	137th
Shots blocked	0	-
Crosses blocked	0	-

In Summary: Rasmus Hojlund does not have a single elite attribute. He is a poor striker, poor in possession and poor in defense, with an almost non-existent ariel game. He has not attempted a single shot from head, or from a set piece. This leads to the much bandied about stat about his elite shot conversion. To properly check if hojlunds conversion rate is elite or not, we have to remove shots from headers and set pieces for other attackers.

Those are some pretty shocking stats if they are correct.

Shocking as in bad, but not surprising if you focus on his play, there are really very few obvious strengths to his game as much as some talk about high potential.

 

[steeeb]

Makes good runs but never really played in enough.

Hard to judge how good he is when the comparison is players that have 5-6 chances a game.

Needs time when we improve to see whether he has it or not.

You could put Mbappe up front in place of him for most of his United career and he'd look "got potential but not there yet" too.

 

[Jacob]

I feel like a lot of defense of Hojlund comes from the fact that we paid 70 million for him. The thinking seems to be that we paid that much money so he must be good and we only need to give him time to grow into a proper striker. His performances have been mediocre, he has not scored that many goals so it should mean that he is not receiving any service. The defense of Hojlund seems to be backed up by deceptive stats about his finishing percentage which is very high.

Why do I feel that his shot conversion percentage is very deceptive? It is because of another key stat: total shots/90, which is 1 this season. Yes, Hojlund takes an average of 1 shot every 90 minutes. Compare this to garnacho who has 3.4 shots per 90, or diallo who has 2.2 shots per 90 or zirkzee who has 2 shots per 90. Even yoro averages 1.1 per 90.

To check how Hojlund compares to other young attacker in the top 5 leauges, I looked into whoscored player stats for positions (ST, AML, AMC, AMR) , age<24 and appearances more than 10. This criteria gives a total of 152 players. Here are Hojlunds stats per 90 minutes:

Rating	6.32	121th
Total shots	1	145th
Total shots in penalty area	0.6	137th
Total shots in 6 yard box	0.1	81th
Total shots out of box	0.3	122th
Total shots from open play	0.8	138th
Total shots from counter attack	0.2	78th
Total shots from set piece	0	-
Total shots from right foot	0.1	138th
Total shots from left foot	0.9	55th
Total shots from head	0	-
Goals	0.2	101th
Goals - penalty area	0.2	77th
Goals out of box	0	-
Goals 6 yard box	0	-
Total dribbles	1.8	127th
Successfull dribbles	0.6	129th
Unsuccessful touches	3.3	121th
Dispossessed	1.2	37th
Aerial	5	29th
Aerial Won	1.4	49th
Aerial lost	3.6	132th
Passes	15	139th
Long Balls	0	-
Accurate short passes	11.9	126th
Accurate crosses	0.1	110th
Key passes	0.8	122th
Assists	0	-
Total attempted tackles	0.5	149th
Total tackels successfull	0.2	146th
Total interceptions	0.1	126th
Passes blocked	0.2	137th
Shots blocked	0	-
Crosses blocked	0	-

In Summary: Rasmus Hojlund does not have a single elite attribute. He is a poor striker, poor in possession and poor in defense, with an almost non-existent ariel game. He has not attempted a single shot from head, or from a set piece. This leads to the much bandied about stat about his elite shot conversion. To properly check if hojlunds conversion rate is elite or not, we have to remove shots from headers and set pieces for other attackers.

1 total shot per game as a striker? Bloody hell.

 

[Gandalf]

All this is what a good striker instinctively does. Sniffs a goal scoring position and gets there, or at least affects the movements of the defender. Like I said, McT often did it ahead of him last season when we were chasing a goal. At the time, I thought he was taking up Hojlund's space, but now I realize McT probably has better instincts.

I agree up to a point with this statement but it also underlines a real issue with our goal scoring and what McTominay brought to the team and what others are currently not doing.

Rasmus plays as a lone striker, something he generally did not do before joining us, so clearly the point about him not always knowing how to play the position or the runs to make is valid. It is why he should have been signed behind a veteran player to learn his trade but we are where we are and we just have to hope that until we add to the squad Amorim can do a better job of coaching him than has happened up until now.

In attack, Rasmus has to make decisions when he is running into the box. Should he run in on goal for the ball played across the face or stop near the penalty spot for the cutback? If he runs in on goal should he go near post or far post? There are a multitude of options and he is clearly uncertain of the best one to pick, an experienced striker may make the right choice more frequently but they are still gambling that they are right. With United the situation has been exacerbated over the 18 months that Rasmus has been here by the fact that we don't appear to have a discernible pattern of play, particularly in attack where Bruno likes to play hero balls and our wingers have tended to opt for individual glory over crossing more often than not. I do think that if we play in a more disciplined way with established patterns in the attacking third this will alleviate a lot of the issues we currently see with him making the wrong run.

With regard to the McTominay issue specifically. He profited from making very intelligent runs from midfield to join the attack. It is not always the case that he made better runs, he just gambled that if he took another option than Rasmus there was a chance he would find space and he did on a number of occasions. In the absence of McTominay we really have missed runners into the box and this has dramatically reduced our chances of success in attack because we are depending on Rasmus making the right run from a number of options and then playing the perfect pass to find a lone target in the box with 3 or 4 opposition players. If you look at almost any other PL team in attack, other than on a quick counter, they will have runners arriving in the box ready to pick up on any opportunities that should come but we very rarely do this which greatly limits our chances of scoring from open play.

I do believe that we are moving to a more structured style of play which will take a lot of the guesswork out of playing the stikers position, this can only help Rasmus or whoever is chosen to lead the line. If we can show a little more game intelligence in terms of runners from midfield, looking to pick up on second balls or occupy space created by the forwards runs then our chance creation and goals scored should increase significantly through the remainder of the season.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Three points:

1) The run begins at the edge of our attacking third, well outside the box. That's where VVD scans, which he does ONCE and never again. He knows where Hojlund is, and Hojlund just continues running as he started.

2) It isn't hindsight analysis. I was screaming at the time for him to make the near post run. There was no way that ball is going to curve around VVD without Alison collecting it. Physics is physics.

3) Been rewatching some old Giroud goals. He does VVD near post for France using that exact movement. Actually a harder chance since it's from a near-standing start: jink, then nip in near post. VVD wrongfooted.

All this is what a good striker instinctively does. Sniffs a goal scoring position and gets there, or at least affects the movements of the defender. Like I said, McT often did it ahead of him last season when we were chasing a goal. At the time, I thought he was taking up Hojlund's space, but now I realize McT probably has better instincts.

• I can only see the clip posted, as said if there's a longer one it might change my mind but I can only see the one where it basically starts just outside the area.
• It wouldn't need to curve, it would be a standard ball across goal - very common to put it between the keeper and CB and have someone go far post. Not saying that was the best play, but odd you don't think it was an option, it happens every week.
• Giroud wass an elite striker, I am sure he scored many near post and far post goal throughout his career, particularly as he was never very quick so making his name within the 6 yard box and winning lots of those kinds of balls.
• Re McT weird point, McT's advantage is he was playing in AM so the issue is CBs don't know whether to step out or midfielders drop to cover him - Hojlund (or any CF in the world) will never not be marked by a CB.

@MalBot how are they similar unless you watch football and think 'that's on the left, therefore it's similar'? Odoi has skinned his man, he is dribbling towards goal, the CB nearest Odoi is basically a sitting duck, all he can do is keep going at the angle he is and block the immediate pass to Wood.

 

[criticalanalysis]

this is from last night's game between Nottingham Forest and Wolves. At 2:00, this was almost same situation except Wood makes the run to the near post and scores because of that.

I don't want to defend Hojlund too much because his movement is absolutely inconsistent but I said this last time in this very thread; Bruno has now crossed 3-4 times with the outside of his right foot from the left channel (a couple in the Spurs game). It's always been first time balls with awkward technique that are very difficult to read in those situations, which I don't think even Bruno knows himself whether he's aiming for the near or far post until the very last second. Unfortunately for Hojlund he's read none of them and that isn't lost on me because you can't keep excusing 'he doesn't get service'. However, if I was a striker I personally wouldn't be too happy with Bruno's unorthodox crosses too. He should either use his weaker foot and get his foot around the ball for a more conventional cross (like Dalot did for Amad against Liverpool) or cut it back and then use his right foot again.

Knowing Hojlund's aerial prowess, he probably still wouldn't do much with it but I can't help and feel bad a little for him there.

 

[The Serpent]

Forget bringing in an experienced striker, we should have bought a proper young potential striker who's ceiling is high, someone like Sesko who is far better all around player who gets involved in build up and is a nuisance up top and knows how to control and head a football and scores goals .

I was annoyed in the summer we didn't take in Samu Omodorion who is now being a menace in Portugal right now and these guys know how to get on the end of crosses, fast tall and strong with the killer instinct to get goals, everything we hoped Hojlund would be when we signed him. These guys like Delap, Samu and Sesko are real prospects who don't need excuses made for them on a weekly basis

 

[MadDogg]

@tomaldinho1 : this is what was promised, especially the first play. He has it in him. Needs to raise his game massively. The PL is different.

I'm fairly certain that he was showing that in his first month or two here. I remember in those early days it really was a case of his teammates not finding him despite him making good runs. But after those few months his movement seemed to decline quite a lot and it became at least as much his fault as his teammates for him not getting enough opportunities.

Although it is a possibility that his movement was always poor and I just wrongly blamed the teammates in those months.

 

[Bondi77]

Why does he constantly back into the defender and end up falling on his arse!
If he had good technique he should stand strong and think about getting good control and turning away from his defender or just a good lay off and bring teammates into a better position.
It is just the basics of centre forward play.
Someone should sit him down and make him watch videos of Mark Hughes over and over again until it sinks in what the role of a Centre Forward is.

 

[Rozay]

No.

 

[Fortitude]

I don't want to defend Hojlund too much because his movement is absolutely inconsistent but I said this last time in this very thread; Bruno has now crossed 3-4 times with the outside of his right foot from the left channel (a couple in the Spurs game). It's always been first time balls with awkward technique that are very difficult to read in those situations, which I don't think even Bruno knows himself whether he's aiming for the near or far post until the very last second. Unfortunately for Hojlund he's read none of them and that isn't lost on me because you can't keep excusing 'he doesn't get service'. However, if I was a striker I personally wouldn't be too happy with Bruno's unorthodox crosses too. He should either use his weaker foot and get his foot around the ball for a more conventional cross (like Dalot did for Amad against Liverpool) or cut it back and then use his right foot again.

Knowing Hojlund's aerial prowess, he probably still wouldn't do much with it but I can't help and feel bad a little for him there.

Unfortunately, this line of thinking would make things sound even worse for Hojlund, not absolve him as it would suggest he lacks striker’s instinct and has to have things set on linear tracks to be effective. It’s also not really a thing given how vanilla and perfunctory the NT is where he still looks lost and can’t get into games despite knowing exactly what is going to be coming in the final 3rd in terms of delivery.

Thing is, runs don’t often begin in the final third; you’re usually seeing what a striker is about way before then in an open, vertical field where he has the power of persuasion via the running lanes chosen as well as the definitive one that is either the dummy run to allow others time to find space he has opened up, or for the final pass to be played to him. Good strikers force this over and over again until they or the team benefit. If those runs aren’t being made, the team will bypass the player and pursue other options and then the striker has to try and latch on to what is being dictated, which is what we see time and again and why Hojlund is so often nowhere to be seen as the “random” delivery is then played into general areas where the striker should be, which is where we see time and again that he isn’t.

Even if Bruno’s delivery was odd, a good striker has the wherewithal to place themselves equidistant in the general areas balls are likely to fall, ready to “come alive” to any potential opportunity, and earn themselves several “easy” goals via tap-ins, rebounds, deflections and general in the box mishaps that aren’t mishaps at all, just generic chaos to be capitalised upon by sharp forwards.

I don’t even think about aerial deficiencies with him because there’s so much he’s not doing along the deck, which has to be bread and butter in the PL.

The excuses are incredibly weak because a lot of this is elementary stuff strikers learn at academy and u21 level and it’s one of the ways we see how incredibly raw he is that he’s literally learning on job and doesn’t have those instincts hardcoded to be where teammates need him to be for the “easy” stuff to have a chance of materialising. He gets a lot of grief from teammates for positioning and it’s pretty clear there’s more going on than Bruno’s unorthodoxy as to why he’s so rarely where he’s supposed to be to best affect the game on a play by play basis. Whether United are included or not, he’s struggling a lot with approach play and being in the right places at the right times. His Euros was as damning and unfortunate.

That’s why for me a time when he gets to learn his craft on loan would be invaluable; learning on job in the PL. Can you think of a tougher gig in world football at the moment?

 

[Denis79]

He does still do it, people just focus on when something doesn't go right. @Denis79 as well for ease of replying/not clogging the thread.

I saw the clip, it's shame it's so short because it would be more telling to see where Rasmus started but I don't think it's that damning. The reality is he should either go front or far post and Bruno looks up to see where he is before playing the pass, which is odd because he's clearly behind VVD when he does so. One thing I will say is I can't tell if it hits Konate on the way through and was actually meant to be a much firmer pass, but if it was a near post pass I think Bruno is more at 'fault' even if it's not really that massive an error from either in the grand scheme of things. It certainly wouldn't be a tap in for Hojlund given he is behind VVD.

This highlights what I would call the hindsight analysis I mentioned before i.e. its only after the ball is played people will say 'Hojlund should have gone near post', if Bruno had played a cross field ball and Hojlund went near post they would then be criticising him for that. If you freeze the video when it begins, Hojlund has got himself into a great position i.e. he has dropped into VVD's blindspot and the latter has really committed to the near post. Hojlund has to commit one way, which he does, but the pass doesn't come. Much of it is understanding and familiarity but th eonus there, for me, is on the passer because he can see where Hojlund is moving towards.

I'm not saying he's amazing at it but it really doesn't seem to be as crippling an issue as people claim, there are surely better examples than this video though. I think his touch recently is a bigger worry, plus his finishing because for the type of team we are right now, where we aren't really creating lots of clear chances, the tough part for a 21 year old is you aren't getting a lot of sympathy from fans if you aren't super clinical, and he has missed good chances in both games now. I will go back to service though, we just aren't a team that crosses, and so you're immediately taking a lot of the potential supply away from him - this season we are 16th for crosses with 308, way behind teams we would consider 'rivals' - top is 450 - and so attacking quality around him, specifically because the WBs are wingers in Amorim's system makes me think he deserves more time/patience. He grafts, he's improved his hold up play, he runs channels all game and we know he's usually clinical in the box.

Hojlund has scored 2 Premier League goals this season, with 0 assists? Despite playing in the majority of games. This is a concern for us. Of course, better players make everyone better, but if his struggles were only down to his teammates, why is he also struggling with the national team? Why was he one of Denmark's lowest-rated starting players in the Euros?

What I keep arguing is not that he’s terrible. I’m saying he’s not ready yet. I’m not screaming for us to sell him, but I do believe he’s not ready for the Premier League at this stage. That’s it. My main issue is the constant narrative that it’s everyone else’s fault he’s not performing well. I don’t agree with that, that is the extent of my argument. I think he is performing badly because of himself.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: I do think he has what it takes to become a Premier League level striker, but he’s not there yet. His goals and assists, or lack thereof reflect that. Always blaming others for his poor form, low goal tally, and struggles doesn’t sit right with me. In my opinion, his difficulties come from being young, raw, and not yet ready for the Premier League, and that’s why he’s having a tough time. His movement is just one aspect that in my opinion shows he is still very raw, his first-touch the same and so on. There are very polarizing sides to this argument: one side believes he’s a world-class talent and should play every game, while the other thinks he’s not good enough and should be sold immediately. I fall somewhere in the middle. I believe Hojlund has the potential to become a decent Premier League striker with time, and I still have hope for him. However, I don’t think he should be starting for us right now. We need to bring in a more established striker to lead the line while he matures and develops into the player he has the potential to be.

 

[honirelandboy]

I think a year in the championship would do him the world of good just like Diallo although we don't have the squad to do that. Would take the pressue off him. At this moment in time Hojlund is no where near the top 10 strikers in the premier league. His first touch reminds of Lukaku. I'm hoping Hojlund comes good but I'm not seeing any unique qualities from him whatsoever to say that he's going to be a world class striker.

I'm all for getting a new striker on loan and play Hojlund in Europa league or come on in the 70th minute when a game is done and dusted but from what I see of him its a definitely we need a new striker. With 18 games left in the premier league season i'd be surprised if he got more than five goals.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Hojlund has scored 2 Premier League goals this season, with 0 assists? Despite playing in the majority of games. This is a concern for us. Of course, better players make everyone better, but if his struggles were only down to his teammates, why is he also struggling with the national team? Why was he one of Denmark's lowest-rated starting players in the Euros?

What I keep arguing is not that he’s terrible. I’m saying he’s not ready yet. I’m not screaming for us to sell him, but I do believe he’s not ready for the Premier League at this stage. That’s it. My main issue is the constant narrative that it’s everyone else’s fault he’s not performing well. I don’t agree with that, that is the extent of my argument. I think he is performing badly because of himself.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: I do think he has what it takes to become a Premier League level striker, but he’s not there yet. His goals and assists, or lack thereof reflect that. Always blaming others for his poor form, low goal tally, and struggles doesn’t sit right with me. In my opinion, his difficulties come from being young, raw, and not yet ready for the Premier League, and that’s why he’s having a tough time. His movement is just one aspect that in my opinion shows he is still very raw, his first-touch the same and so on. There are very polarizing sides to this argument: one side believes he’s a world-class talent and should play every game, while the other thinks he’s not good enough and should be sold immediately. I fall somewhere in the middle. I believe Hojlund has the potential to become a decent Premier League striker with time, and I still have hope for him. However, I don’t think he should be starting for us right now. We need to bring in a more established striker to lead the line while he matures and develops into the player he has the potential to be.

1st para - 100% agree to #of goals is a concern. Not sure the international argument holds much weight, I have zero interest how he performs outside of his time in a United shirt. We regularly see players have great international tournaments and be poor domestically or vice versa.

2nd and 3rd - I'm only really pointing out that I think the idea that his movement is not good, is just something that people repeat because they a) can't be bothered to actually analyse what he does/what the team does and b) because it sounds technical. It's actually a very interesting thing to look at, far more interesting than people having a back and forth using hyperbole about how terrible someone is or spamming walls of texts for the sake of it. I agree broadly that in an ideal world he'd have joined when he did behind a more experienced striker and so he has the natural progression of pushing for the place and then becoming No1 (I guess he technically did but Martial was a crock and never played) but United are not in a perfect world and there are bigger issues than him in the team.

 

[romufc]

Why does he constantly back into the defender and end up falling on his arse!
If he had good technique he should stand strong and think about getting good control and turning away from his defender or just a good lay off and bring teammates into a better position.
It is just the basics of centre forward play.
Someone should sit him down and make him watch videos of Mark Hughes over and over again until it sinks in what the role of a Centre Forward is.

Its so frustrating to see. Surely the coaches would have seen this and tried to do something? Hold up play for a striker his size should not be rocket science to coach. Its about repetition, one of the easier things to coach really.

He should be looking at this himself, it would take his game so much further if he learnt how to hold the ball up. He would get more of the ball as team mates will trust him and in turn get more chances when the ball is played into feet in the penalty area, to control turn and shoot.

 

[darko]

I though he made some good runs but there wasn't even the attempts to pass him the ball.

 

[gulli_G]

He needs to improve a lot, fans are already calling him Grassmus.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Unfortunately, this line of thinking would make things sound even worse for Hojlund, not absolve him as it would suggest he lacks striker’s instinct and has to have things set on linear tracks to be effective. It’s also not really a thing given how vanilla and perfunctory the NT is where he still looks lost and can’t get into games despite knowing exactly what is going to be coming in the final 3rd in terms of delivery.

Thing is, runs don’t often begin in the final third; you’re usually seeing what a striker is about way before then in an open, vertical field where he has the power of persuasion via the running lanes chosen as well as the definitive one that is either the dummy run to allow others time to find space he has opened up, or for the final pass to be played to him. Good strikers force this over and over again until they or the team benefit. If those runs aren’t being made, the team will bypass the player and pursue other options and then the striker has to try and latch on to what is being dictated, which is what we see time and again and why Hojlund is so often nowhere to be seen as the “random” delivery is then played into general areas where the striker should be, which is where we see time and again that he isn’t.

Even if Bruno’s delivery was odd, a good striker has the wherewithal to place themselves equidistant in the general areas balls are likely to fall, ready to “come alive” to any potential opportunity, and earn themselves several “easy” goals via tap-ins, rebounds, deflections and general in the box mishaps that aren’t mishaps at all, just generic chaos to be capitalised upon by sharp forwards.

I don’t even think about aerial deficiencies with him because there’s so much he’s not doing along the deck, which has to be bread and butter in the PL.

The excuses are incredibly weak because a lot of this is elementary stuff strikers learn at academy and u21 level and it’s one of the ways we see how incredibly raw he is that he’s literally learning on job and doesn’t have those instincts hardcoded to be where teammates need him to be for the “easy” stuff to have a chance of materialising. He gets a lot of grief from teammates for positioning and it’s pretty clear there’s more going on than Bruno’s unorthodoxy as to why he’s so rarely where he’s supposed to be to best affect the game on a play by play basis. Whether United are included or not, he’s struggling a lot with approach play and being in the right places at the right times. His Euros was as damning and unfortunate.

That’s why for me a time when he gets to learn his craft on loan would be invaluable; learning on job in the PL. Can you think of a tougher gig in world football at the moment?

I don't disagree that Hojlund's movement is very inconsistent and poor. I'm just specifically talking about the Bruno crosses. Heck, forget his crosses to Hojlund, Bruno is unorthodox with a lot of his 'chance creation' where most of his team mates don't know where the ball is going to go. That's my main bane of the criticism regarding 'Hojlund should have done better on that Bruno cross' because Hojlund can't even reliably read the 1 or 2 out of 10 balls that you would expect from a 'regular' attacking play. That even goes for Amad, who despite being our best attacking player seems to have a completely different mind for his final action once in the penalty box.

TLDR: My issue is more with Bruno than Hojlund in this very specific scenario.

 

[Denis79]

1st para - 100% agree to #of goals is a concern. Not sure the international argument holds much weight, I have zero interest how he performs outside of his time in a United shirt. We regularly see players have great international tournaments and be poor domestically or vice versa.

2nd and 3rd - I'm only really pointing out that I think the idea that his movement is not good, is just something that people repeat because they a) can't be bothered to actually analyse what he does/what the team does and b) because it sounds technical. It's actually a very interesting thing to look at, far more interesting than people having a back and forth using hyperbole about how terrible someone is or spamming walls of texts for the sake of it. I agree broadly that in an ideal world he'd have joined when he did behind a more experienced striker and so he has the natural progression of pushing for the place and then becoming No1 (I guess he technically did but Martial was a crock and never played) but United are not in a perfect world and there are bigger issues than him in the team.

The reason I keep going on and on about the national squad like a parrot is that many people (not saying you specifically) blame his teammates for his poor performances. I bring up the national team to highlight that he’s also struggling there, despite having completely different teammates. If he performed well with the national squad, the argument that his club teammates are holding him back would carry much more weight.

On your second point, I agree much criticisms of him are thrown out without much thought, and movement is an easy target because it’s hard to assess. That said, In my armchair, wannabe scout opinion, I’ve really specifically looked at his movement, both on TV and in the handful of games I’ve been at Old Trafford this season. And honestly, I feel his movement is one of the factors limiting his ability to create chances for himself.

 

[Captmfla]

Hojlund has an outstanding international goals spree for Denmark.

I think when you considered that even Haaland has a poor form right now in a top club. Hojlund definitely should be given more chances given that he's in a dysfunctional team.