[Davie Moyes]

Right decision to pass. Wrongly executed. Ask a manager what they would want their player to do in that position and there is your answer.

For years I've been critical of our forwards don't do the obvious cutbacks for a teammate to score a simple goal.

It's a trademark of City. Through ball in behind the fullback from a midfielder and the wide player cutting the ball back to a teammate. So simple but effective.

 

[Mavs]

Just watched it again too, the annoying thing about the pass is he didn’t need to disguise it that much, the defenders were covering the shot so he should have been able to pass along the ground without trying to chop it. Right decision to pass, poor execution.

Yes, watching it on replay, it is definitely the execution of pass that causes the bobble, not the pitch as it looked like on first watch. The whole passage of play really highlighted his lack of confidence/form, as has been mentioned an in-form striker would have probably shot themselves, or played a better pass. Zirkzee was hesitant and unsure of himself as soon as he received the ball - which is completely understandable at this point, and I don't want to be too harsh on him as he is clearly struggling here at the club. I didn't really have any belief that he would score when watching it live.

 

[harms]

I think it should be made clear that a top striker for a big club should be taking that on, and scoring it. It's not like Maguire had an open goal to shoot into. It was far from a lay off for a tap in.

Van Nistelrooy, Van Persie, Rooney, Ronaldo, Cole, Cantona. Do you think any of them pass the ball there? 2-2 in injury time at Anfield. Not a chance.

Rooney & Cantona? Quite likely. The rest — probably not. A top player doesn't have to go for glory if another option is better — and it absolutely was.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Funny how Cole gets mentioned in this thread and Højlunds. He would have been crucified by this fanbase before Yorke arrived and helped him get going.

Cole had 100 PL goals in 175 games for Newcastle and United before Yorke was signed to partner him. Moreover, he endured playing second fiddle to Cantona, Fergie's infatuation with Shearer and two broken legs. He would have been crucified by whom? The fanbase who's starving for some quality, grit and professionalism on the pitch to the point where Harry freaking Maguire is being perceived as a model pro for simply sitting on his contract?

 

[RedIan]

He did o when he came on given his confidence will be rock bottom after some morons booed him. Id still sell him tomorrow.

 

[Lyng]

Cole had 100 PL goals in 175 games for Newcastle and United before Yorke was signed to partner him. Moreover, he endured playing second fiddle to Cantona, Fergie's infatuation with Shearer and two broken legs. He would have been crucified by whom? The fanbase who's starving for some quality, grit and professionalism on the pitch to the point where Harry freaking Maguire is being perceived as a model pro for simply sitting on his contract?

Cole was excellent for Newcastle but had massive issues impacting games when he first arrived. When Yorke came was when he became fantastic for us.
Maguire is being perceived as a model pro because he is keeping his head down and putting in the work.

 

[IncyWincySpider]

Cole was excellent for Newcastle but had massive issues impacting games when he first arrived. When Yorke came was when he became fantastic for us.
Maguire is being perceived as a model pro because he is keeping his head down and putting in the work.

It took him a while to get going didn't it? He would have been a meme if social media had been around at the time. Catatonia even wrote a lyric about him:

I'm Andy Cole's tortured soul, lost out again in front of goal.

 

[rimaldo]

Just watched it again, scoring from that angle is slim. Keeper came out and 2 defenders managed to get back on the line. It’s a narrow angle.

Passing was the best option, think people are going overboard. Had he taken a shot, people would complain why he didn’t pass.

Nature of man, always complains.

yeah, the pass was the best option, wasn’t the best pass, but it wasn’t diabolical. maguire had long enough to adjust. he was just knackered at the end of a tough game and swung a fairly lazy foot. it’s not like it bobbled just as he hit it. was the same as dalot getting pelters for a decent wrong footed cross that amad never adjusted his stride to.

 

[Raven]

The choice to pass was stupid in the first place.

You’re a striker mate, scoring is your bread and butter and you’re passing to your centre back?!

Any half decent striker would have buried that, passing wouldn’t even been an option to consider.

No. Not any half decent striker would have scored from that angle against arguably the best keeper in the world. I've seen literally all of the best players in my life time not score from chances like that.

 

[MrFishers]

He came on and was a nuisance to Liverpool defenders because of his physicality and link up play.He also created chances.

All this after getting bood off by a subset of "fans" shows character.Hope he can repay Amorim's faith in him.

 

[Gazautd18]

Sky reporting that he doesn't want to go back to Italy.
He wants to stay and prove that he can play in Amorim's system as well as Amorim wants to keep him.
I admire his character after what happened.

 

[VP89]

The choice to pass was stupid in the first place.

You’re a striker mate, scoring is your bread and butter and you’re passing to your centre back?!

Any half decent striker would have buried that, passing wouldn’t even been an option to consider.

It was 100% the right move.

 

[Suv666]

It was 100% the right move.

Na I disagree but I don’t have the energy to argue

 

[VP89]

Na I disagree but I don’t have the energy to argue

Same, truce

 

[lex talionis]

My take on the late chance is that Zirkzee should have taken the shot rather than pass it to Maguire, who is not known for being proficient on goal with either his feet or his head. But Maguire was open and the goal was there to be had, CB or no CB taking the easy pass into the net. This is not a decision Zirkzee should be flogged for.

 

[Suv666]

Same, truce

 

[didz]

Player A passes to Player B after realising they are in a better position to score a goal. Shall we credit Player A? Nah, feck it, our mind is made up, let's hang him.

I would wish a thousand selfish Rashford pot shots upon you all, but it would only have me screaming at the pitch or telly too. Unfortunately, I find myself unable to argue on your level.

 

[Vidooq]

Player A passes to Player B after realising they are in a better position to score a goal. Shall we credit Player A? Nah, feck it, our mind is made up, let's hang him.

I would wish a thousand selfish Rashford pot shots upon you all, but it would only have me screaming at the pitch or telly too. Unfortunately, I find myself unable to argue on your level.

I believe the general consensus here is that he is not getting pelters that he passed the ball, but rather, how he passed it. He made it much harder for Maguire to have a controlled shot by bouncing the ball from the ground when instead, it had to be a clean ground pass, which would've significantly lowered the chances of Maguire blasting it over the bar.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I believe the general consensus here is that he is not getting pelters that he passed the ball, but rather, how he passed it. He made it much harder for Maguire to have a controlled shot by bouncing the ball from the ground when instead, it had to be a clean ground pass, which would've significantly lowered the chances of Maguire blasting it over the bar.

It's absolutely agenda based from people who have already made their mind up about him. I didn't even want us to sign him but this is obvious to see.

 

[dubplate warrior]

A bit cowardly to pass a centre half when you have a decent chance yourself.

A striker should be ruthless there considering what's at stake.

Mad take. It was the right option to pass.

 

[didz]

I believe the general consensus here is that he is not getting pelters that he passed the ball, but rather, how he passed it. He made it much harder for Maguire to have a controlled shot by bouncing the ball from the ground when instead, it had to be a clean ground pass, which would've significantly lowered the chances of Maguire blasting it over the bar.

Fair play to you for having the droves of people/bots saying "strikers should always shoot" on ignore. You're a far quicker study than I.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I'm in two minds about it really:

1. The decision WAS the right one in isolation. JZ had a tougher angle and he sees a teammate in prime position at the penalty spot to sweep home the winner. The execution of the pass was poor but the decision was good.

2. HOWEVER, my issue is I WANT Zirkzee to start developing more of a killer instinct for goals. He'll never make it here if his entire M.O. is just being a neat techincian that passes it well and is selfless. At a certain point he has to start backing himself to take shots on target, especially given he has great technique to do so. I wanted him to shoot yesterday honestly even if it would have been the technical "wrong" decision, because at least it would have shown confidence and aggression in looking to impact the game (two things I think hinder him the most when he plays).

 

[dcrompton]

The maddest take on the Maguire miss was on the Guardian podcast where Barry Glendenning said Maguire should have dummied it for Garnacho!

I think the pass was the right play but part of me wants a striker who would back themselves to bang it in the top corner in last minute away to your rivals, especially the game after being subbed off before half time.

 

[Zed is not dead]

In an ideal world, Zirkzee would have had enough confidence to smash it under the crossbar.

In the real world, he’s a 21yo who was subbed off after half an hour of play and booed by part of his home fans in his last game, having a real hard time adjusting to the pressure of playing for United, facing one of the best keepers in the league, for what was a potential winning action at the last second of a game against your historical rivals.

Had he taken a shot and missed people would have criticised him for not passing to the 2 free united players in the box.

Of course he would chose the safest path to victory and that was a cutback pass

 

[Zed is not dead]

No. Not any half decent striker would have scored from that angle against arguably the best keeper in the world. I've seen literally all of the best players in my life time not score from chances like that.

I think people think that Rooney was a half decent striker then, because I can only think of him as the kind of player who would have gone for the shot and scored if he was placed in a similar context to Zirkzee (poor form, booed off, etc.)

It’s becoming increasingly apparent that people may not be watching football matches beyond those of United.
Every player experiences ups and downs. What truly sets apart a good player from a great one is consistency, and there’s a scarcity of great players at present, particularly at United in recent times.
It’s pointless to compare our current players to hypothetical “half decent” players when the standards we’re applying are actually those of great/rare players.

 

[Bon1803]

Pass was the right option. Execution not great but still a high probability of scoring.

As for Zirkzee himself the treatment he is getting is over the top. He’s had enough frustrating moments but he has not had anywhere near a sequence of games to get going. He is new to a very demanding league and will need time to adapt but everybody is expecting him to be banging them in left right and centre.

I think he is worth a bit more time, he offers something different. More suited as a 10 but could have his uses as a 9 against certain opposition.

 

[dcrompton]

In an ideal world, Zirkzee would have had enough confidence to smash it under the crossbar.

In the real world, he’s a 21yo who was subbed off after half an hour of play and booed by part of his home fans in his last game, having a real hard time adjusting to the pressure of playing for United, facing one of the best keepers in the league, for what was a potential winning action at the last second of a game against your historical rivals.

Had he taken a shot and missed people would have criticised him for not passing to the 2 free united players in the box.

Of course he would chose the safest path to victory and that was a cutback pass

In an ideal world, Zirkzee would have had enough confidence to smash it under the crossbar.

In the real world, he’s a 21yo who was subbed off after half an hour of play and booed by part of his home fans in his last game, having a real hard time adjusting to the pressure of playing for United, facing one of the best keepers in the league, for what was a potential winning action at the last second of a game against your historical rivals.

Had he taken a shot and missed people would have criticised him for not passing to the 2 free united players in the box.

Of course he would chose the safest path to victory and that was a cutback pass

Zirkzee is 23 and I remember another 23 year old striker being in a similar position, both in terms of criticism and the same part of the same pitch

 

[Raven]

I think people think that Rooney was a half decent striker then, because I can only think of him as the kind of player who would have gone for the shot and scored if he was placed in a similar context to Zirkzee (poor form, booed off, etc.)

It’s becoming increasingly apparent that people may not be watching football matches beyond those of United.
Every player experiences ups and downs. What truly sets apart a good player from a great one is consistency, and there’s a scarcity of great players at present, particularly at United in recent times.
It’s pointless to compare our current players to hypothetical “half decent” players when the standards we’re applying are actually those of great/rare players.

But even prime Rooney probably only puts away a chance like that 1 out of every 3-4 (being generous). Zirkzee got 10-15 minutes on the pitch and the better option was to pass, especially at that moment in the game, just a shame he couldn't roll it along the floor.

 

[Walrus]

Zirkzee is 23 and I remember another 23 year old striker being in a similar position, both in terms of criticism and the same part of the same pitch

Wow, didnt realise he was that young. Thought he was about 26. All the more reason why for me he needs to be given some more time to adapt to a new league. A lot of the fans writing him off this early is pathetic. If he goes he goes, but a lot of the comments here and over the past couple of months have been utterly laughable.

 

[NoPace]

Yeah, watching it again this morning...not intending to pile on Zirkzee (understand also he wanted to disguise the pass and 'chop' it, hence the bobble) and not absolving Maguire..but it was about a foot off the ground when Maguire hit it...there's not many of our players I'd back to definitely score that!

Maybe some weather benefit of the doubt, hard to say watching on TV. Might have just been a bad pass.

 

[Posh Red]

Haven’t rewatched it. Can’t bring myself to

 

[Tarrou]

I'd rather retire from the game than pass to Maguire there

if you get a chance to be John O'Shea you take it

 

[CG1010]

Wow, didnt realise he was that young. Thought he was about 26. All the more reason why for me he needs to be given some more time to adapt to a new league. A lot of the fans writing him off this early is pathetic. If he goes he goes, but a lot of the comments here and over the past couple of months have been utterly laughable.

I feel he has higher chance of success than Hojlund. His main issue is that he is off pace every game but that is potentially because he is new to the league and needs to become fitter and more athletic. He is a good technical player with good movement and seems to have football intelligence. Yes, he has often been sloppy but that could be a function of being overwhelmed with the physicality of the league. On the other hand, Hojlund is in his second season, older, struggles nearly as much as Zirkzee on the physical aspect and is also not as good technically.

 

[CannibalSpectre]

Sky reporting that he doesn't want to go back to Italy.
He wants to stay and prove that he can play in Amorim's system as well as Amorim wants to keep him.
I admire his character after what happened.

I read that as well and if true I'm glad he's deciding to stay and fight. If he blooms and reaches his potential under Amorim he'll be a marvel to watch. He has the skillset, it just needs to come together in this league and this system.

As an aside, I also like that him and Amad seem to be forging a promising partnership, considering how well they've seemed to link up together. That's if anyone has noticed.

 

[Tallis]

I trust Amorim in this. If he wants to keep him, happy with that.

Ultimately, I dont think Zirkzee is a massive transfer headache. There will be buyers for him - his wages or fee are not unsurmountable.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It’s a shame he’s so slow and struggling with the pace/ intensity of the PL because we actually could really use a Martial / Berbatov type talent in terms of technical ability. There was this one pass he drilled cross field I think to Dalot and there’s nobody in the team who would hit it like he did allowing the recipient to run on to it. He does little things like that in the buildup when he’s on it that tells me that there’s an exciting player in there - the question is whether that’s one only meant to shine in slower leagues or he can somehow make the step up.

Amorim’s comments tell me it’s the former as generally a manager doesn’t say that unless the player looks defeated.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Zirkzee is 23 and I remember another 23 year old striker being in a similar position, both in terms of criticism and the same part of the same pitch

Wow the memories.

The funny thing here is that Forlan's shot was straight at Dudek, who wasn't a great keeper by any means (and in the same game gifted Forlan his first goal) whilst Zirkzee was against Alison, one of the best 1 vs 1 keepers.

I wouldn't have blamed Zirkzee for shooting but I know if he had missed, the narrative here would be 'why did he square across the 6 yard box for an easier chance?!'.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

It’s a shame he’s so slow and struggling with the pace/ intensity of the PL because we actually could really use a Martial / Berbatov type talent in terms of technical ability. There was this one pass he drilled cross field I think to Dalot and there’s nobody in the team who would hit it like he did allowing the recipient to run on to it. He does little things like that in the buildup when he’s on it that tells me that there’s an exciting player in there - the question is whether that’s one only meant to shine in slower leagues or he can somehow make the step up.

Amorim’s comments tell me it’s the former as generally a manager doesn’t say that unless the player looks defeated.

The thing is that his current problem is similar to Hojlund's. We see a glimpse of this and then a glimpse of that, but there doesn't seem to actually be something there to build upon. Martial, when he first came here, could take defenders on/finish while running with the ball and dribble his way out of a tight space. Berbatov's first touch was one of the best the sport has ever seen. Moreover - and leaving his attitude aside for a moment - people often remember his "style" more than the fact that he didn't have issues coping with the particularities of PL football. He has to help himself first and foremost.

 

[AkaAkuma]

Could an alternative timeline happen where the manager, players and fans rally behind him and he finishes the season with us and steadily improves?

I think to sign Osimhen now would be prohibitive as we need to pay Napoli and Gala.
Gyokeres is more a summer signing.
Kolo Muani would bring all the same issues as Zirkzee with 6 less months of experience.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

The knee jerk takes on here get more extravagant by the week.....