Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

[Teja]

Suppose 90% of the world's teams operate with 3 at the back over a period of the last 50 years, and the remaining 10% is operate with 4 the back. There's a 90% chance that the most successful team in any given year will be a team with 3 at the back. Over 50 years of that being the case, the vast majority of the world's best and most successful teams will be overwhelmingly be a team with 3 at the back. Now imagine there's a guy trying to implement the unpopular 4 at the back system; you get it..........they'll tell him he's rigid and that he should play 3 at the back because historically most of the successful teams in history played with 3.

You've got to realise that the argument you're making is flawed and skewed, and it's sheer confirmation bias.

I think the specific complaints are:

In rest defence, it's a flat back five, both your wing backs are deep and holding the line with your CBs. With a 4 ATB system that would be four players instead of five so clearly there's a bit of a defensive bias inherent to the system. On the transition then once you win the ball, you start a man short. Some of it can be made up by having really athletic, attacking wing backs but generally it biases towards being less attacking as a result.

So let's say we're out of the rest defence --> counter attack situation and the ball went out for a GK. I don't think there's much of a difference here. Both build up in a 3-2 shape and have interesting ways of making that work. Our 5 ATB is a bit static and there's no real variation here. The 3-2 is constructed with the three CBs + 2 CMs for us currently. I haven't seen much variation where as in typical 4 ATB systems you see a wide variety:

----------- DM --- FB -----------
------ FB --- CB --- CB ------

----------- DM --- #10 -------
------ FB --- CB --- CB ------

----------- DM --- CB ---------
------ FB --- CB --- FB -------

You get the point. The variation makes it harder to press and easier for you to find solutions when building up. This can be fixed in a 5 ATB system of course, other teams like Leverkusen have no problems generating these rotations.

In attack again if you compare the front fives -- they're made of CF, LW, RW, #10, FB vs CF, #10, #10, WB, WB. Again a touch of bias towards defence because we're using two wing backs in the place of a traditional #10 and a traditional fullback but maybe it averages out. We talked about the 3-2 system above. Some coaches are ditching the protection of the extra man at the back on transition and are going with a 2-2 instead (2x CB, 1x DM and one other guy -- say an inverted fullback or the second CM). The theory is that if you have better quality players than your opposition then you're generally going to score more than them. Increasing your attacking threat and amplifying your quality advantage there is better than preventing the odd goal here or there on the counter. Ange is the biggest proponent of this. You can never really do this with a back five system -- the 3 CBs are permanent fixtures and will remain there.

The last bit is recruitment and need for specialist players. Precisely because the 4 ATB system is so dominant, it's much easier to find both players and managers for this system. You have to assume any new managerial appointment might be sacked and you need a plan for the next 5 - 10 years. Who's the next coach? How do you avoid the squad churn that comes from shifting systems? What if you go to 4 ATB and need Rashford and Garnacho again but you've already sold them?

 

[DSG]

If the formation is 10%, which I think is maybe too low but not by much, then I don't think time on the training ground will make a big difference and that's why we see very little progress so far. Against Leicester it was like Amorim had had 2 days with the ream. We need 6-9 new players but have limited cash, that is why this will take time/years. Winning the EL might be very important.

I think it’s only 10% because we’re rarely set up that way… if I look at the back 3, Maguire is excellent in the air, but we know he lacks pace. Licha is good with tackling, but is not great in the air.

I do think the mentality makes our lack of athleticism more difficult to overcome. You look at the SAF teams… well, Gary Neville wasn’t particularly athletic, but when you’ve got a maniac like Roy Keane demanding performances as well as delivering crunching tackles, it makes everyone more focused and playing on the edge a bit.

We basically wasted 450m of 600m spent during Ten Hag’s era. Only Maz, Ugarte and potentially Yoro are good enough for a top 4 squad.

 

[DSG]

I think the specific complaints are:

In rest defence, it's a flat back five, both your wing backs are deep and holding the line with your CBs. With a 4 ATB system that would be four players instead of five so clearly there's a bit of a defensive bias inherent to the system. On the transition then once you win the ball, you start a man short. Some of it can be made up by having really athletic, attacking wing backs but generally it biases towards being less attacking as a result.

So let's say we're out of the rest defence --> counter attack situation and the ball went out for a GK. I don't think there's much of a difference here. Both build up in a 3-2 shape and have interesting ways of making that work. Our 5 ATB is a bit static and there's no real variation here. The 3-2 is constructed with the three CBs + 2 CMs for us currently. I haven't seen much variation where as in typical 4 ATB systems you see a wide variety:

----------- DM --- FB -----------
------ FB --- CB --- CB ------

----------- DM --- #10 -------
------ FB --- CB --- CB ------

----------- DM --- CB ---------
------ FB --- CB --- FB -------

You get the point. The variation makes it harder to press and easier for you to find solutions when building up. This can be fixed in a 5 ATB system of course, other teams like Leverkusen have no problems generating these rotations.

In attack again if you compare the front fives -- they're made of CF, LW, RW, #10, FB vs CF, #10, #10, WB, WB. Again a touch of bias towards defence because we're using two wing backs in the place of a traditional #10 and a traditional fullback but maybe it averages out. We talked about the 3-2 system above. Some coaches are ditching the protection of the extra man at the back on transition and are going with a 2-2 instead (2x CB, 1x DM and one other guy -- say an inverted fullback or the second CM). The theory is that if you have better quality players than your opposition then you're generally going to score more than them. Increasing your attacking threat and amplifying your quality advantage there is better than preventing the odd goal here or there on the counter. Ange is the biggest proponent of this. You can never really do this with a back five system -- the 3 CBs are permanent fixtures and will remain there.

The last bit is recruitment and need for specialist players. Precisely because the 4 ATB system is so dominant, it's much easier to find both players and managers for this system. You have to assume any new managerial appointment might be sacked and you need a plan for the next 5 - 10 years. Who's the next coach? How do you avoid the squad churn that comes from shifting systems? What if you go to 4 ATB and need Rashford and Garnacho again but you've already sold them?

I think the Caf is obsessed with the formation when actually it’s still 11 v 11… I don’t think there are any “specialist” positions, you just have different preferred attributes for the wingbacks. The 10s are of similar profiles to a natural 10 or wingers (considering so many wingers are inverted now). Everyone else has jobs that really don’t change that much from a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1.

Again, it’s our formation when defending, 5-4-1, and attacking, 3-2-5 that are more important. Let’s be honest, Dalot doesn’t have the attributes of a wingback and neither does Maz, which is why transitions / counterattacking is a bit slow.

 

[DSG]

While I do agree with allot of what you say I definitely think more can be done to solidify the way we play. My main issue is the incessant chopping and changing of players all the time. Just pick the players you want in your starting 11 and play them all for 5 games on the spin. I know Hojlund is good at stretching the opposition but Zirkzee has done well recently just let him start a few in a row.

We need consistency with players in their correct positions for a period of time, let them grow into it and have some experience as an 11. What you say about the physicality is definitely correct but there are things we can do.

I agree with this. Some of the rotations were because of accumulated yellows and red cards and injuries. For striker, both options are bad.

It’s absolutely true that Amorim hasn’t been able to get the team to perform consistently, and it’s reasonable to have that expectation as a fan.

 

[Woziak]

Good post. We have to back Amorim 100%. Another good post I came across online:

I'm Portuguese. Growing up, people always referred to Porto, Benfica and Sporting as "the big 3" here in Portugal, but throughout my life Sporting had always been a level below Porto and Benfica. They had last won the league back in the 2001/2002 season, I was too little to even remember it because I was born in 1997. I remember questioning throughout the years "why is Sporting even mentioned as one of the big 3 anymore?", until Amorim took over. I cannot overstate how big of an impact he had at that club. Sporting was finally able to win the league under his management and the team he managed to build was genuinely quite outstanding, considering the low budgets Portuguese teams have to work with.


As big of a club as United is, the truth is that right now being a United coach is a pretty mean life. It is not a job that many would want. High risk, low reward. Amorim had Champions League football at Sporting and under his guide they were still the best team in the league, he could've won another league title this year and had a good run in Europe as well. The writing was already on the wall, Sporting was clearly going to dominate Portugal this season if he had stayed. He could've waited another season and gotten a job at another big club elsewhere.


I believe Amorim is at United for all the right reasons. I really believe he wants to challenge himself and that he wants to do right by your club. This is being said by a Porto fan, by the way. So there is no bias here. He is a genuinely good manager and I wholeheartedly believe everything he does is for the good of the club. I've already seen a few United fans turning on him for the way he treated Rashford, claiming that it was personal. It's just not true, he's not like that, and the fans have to stop being so empathetic towards a player who has been in the top 10 highest earners in the Premier League for years whilst not even having been able to break 10 G/A last season. United are already struggling financially as it is, and they're having to pay over 300k a week to a player who apparently can't even be bothered to give his best in training. Regardless of how talented he is and how much you love him, the reality is that Rashford's contract was a one sided deal that benefited only him, and the portion of the fanbase that's claiming "he dedicated his life to this club!" seem to almost be implying that he had done so for free and out of the kindness of his heart, and also seem to never question whether the club had been getting their money's worth, which they absolutely haven't.


Regardless of what happens this season, United have to back him. You have to stop being stuck in this endless loop of swapping managers because it should be clear by now that there is no man on this planet that can singlehandedly turn this club around by himself, certainly not overnight. Give him time, give him a few years. Stop panicking everytime the team loses, he hasn't had a chance to buy the players he needs and is having to work with a team built by several different managers who had different play styles. The squad is a complete mess at the moment.


You need to trust the process. Know that Amorim is a good manager, know that you made a good decision in picking him up and know that things may get a lot worse before they get better. If the fanbase doesn't fully commit to a manager and immediately resorts to putting pressure on the board to sack him every time he goes on a series of bad results, United will be forever stuck in limbo.

I tend to agree with 65% of this post we do need to see this through and back the coach but he needs to stop tinkering with the team and find his best team and stick to it. I don’t subscribe to the players are all awful, Onana played in a CL final a few years ago and was widely considered man of the match, Mazroui, MDL, Maguire, Yoro and Martinez (Before injury) are all Elite Defenders.

Bruno, Eriksen, Casemiro all aging but you start one and have one or two from the bench, Ugarte and Collyer mobile and tiger ish, our real issue is all of our attacking and creative players, the ones that score and create goals are young inexperienced players.

Zirkzee could be great if he settles, he finds clever pockets of space, Rasmus is better than what he’s shown this season. Amad, Kobbie and Garnaucho all have elite potential but they need time and the managers love, I’m not sure they are getting much from Ruben?

We lack a 26-27 year old leader in Midfield, a 26-28 year old CF who leads the attack, and one more number 10. Rashford could and should have taken his last chance at United, with how threadbare we are as a club, he should have been that leader in attack but he’s not because he's brittle mentally and Amorim was right to call him out, however he probably thought he could get rid of him and get someone in.

That decision could and should have waited til the summer, Antony going was a good move he has no end product in the EPL.
The club is desperately hoping to find two potential leaders in Shaw and Mount and hope they come back soon and influence the season’s final games. #clutching at straws

Ruben is not proven in English Football, he didn’t do what Jose did with Porto and win a EUFA Cup then a Champion’s league, he’s clever and could be seriously great but let’s not kid ourselves, he’s making a lot of mistakes with team selection and he’s not reading the room right to allow him to manipulate players for the short term, the mid term and the long term.

I suspect he’s highly strung with a Latin temperament but you can’t call your players shit every week and expect them to perform, you can’t say your 63 year old goal keeping coach offer more than Rashford who needs a different approach. Yes Rashford should go, but he could have gone in the summer after playing well for us to get a Barcelona move, now if Garnaucho or Amad gets injured, then what?

We could have really threatened the FA Cup and Europa league with the right 3 or 4 out in January and the right 2 in, we needy a striker in the mid 20’s who could handle the pressure of this club.

We should as a club, under no circumstances sack RA unless the club is relegated, however Omar Berrada who brought him needs to sit down with him and tell him to reign in the comments, he’s too honest for his own good and the 8 Games he’s lost yes 40% overall and 54% in the EPL means he need to improve and look at himself rather than calling out the squad all the time.

He needs to be told that there is 60-80m for summer if we don’t qualify for Europe and he would have had 27 games to qualify for Europe if he averaged 2 points per game he would have qualified for the CL but when you average 1.1 points per game per game your team is mid to bottom 5 in the table

I also don’t like all of the stupid comments ;
“worst team in history”
“Players don’t know the correct distances to start and move”
“I don’t want to win a cup competition it masks over the real problems”

How about shut up Ruben and concentrate on wining 1 of the 2 cup competitions your in instead of making up an excuse already as to why your not capable of coaching this squad to win a trophy!

ETH won two trophies, even Ole should have won a trophy and got to a major European final, because if you win the FA Cup, the club plays Europa League and you might have £100-150m to spend and if you win Europa League, the club will have £200m+ to spend, however when you’ve called your players the worst in history, I very much doubt they will go the extra mile for you.

And for context in the last 25 years of both domestic cup competitions which is a total of domestic cup 50 trophies, not league titles but domestic cups United have won more than any other English team with 9 from 50.

City 8, Chelsea 8, Liverpool 7, Arsenal 7, Spurs 2( the Same as Leicester!)
So the so called big 6 have won 41 of 50 domestic cups from 1999 to 2024.

We want to win a cup, we like wining trophies and as fans we don’t care how you do it, you can be cold and efficient like Jose, Structured like LVG with a 3 at the back system or produce a masterclass 4222 system like ETH we don’t care how but we do care that you should care, because wining a trophy at United when 4 of the favourites are out is a great opportunity.

 

[UzbekRed]

Whilst most of us agree that Ruben should be given time at least until January 2026, current concerns regarding his performance so far are well justified. If we finish around 15-16th places this season without a deep run in the EL, then the pressure will be huge come next sesson. You can do a heart surgery all you want but performances need to improve which will lead to winning the trust and support of the Board and fans. PL is much stronger and much more competitive than the Premeira liga. What works in Portugal may not work in England as players- coaches- and finances levels wise the two are incomparable.

 

[stepic]

He himself said it wasn’t that different to what players were already playing. Do enlighten us as to what is so different. A good You Tube video with some amateur Pep’s might be able to help you with it.

And who the feck wrote him off?

I’d like to hear his quote in full context, do you have a link?

 

[sparx99]

Bruno can have decent technique with long shots but he's inconsistent with it. Not only that but he often takes pot shots which are momentum killers. When we can't get a good ball into the box, it's been cleared out and/or he feels like we're 'not attacking' enough, he'll go for one when we should have been recycling and trying to build again.

As others have said, he's not exactly prolific with long rangers, so most of the time he takes them they are become possession losses. For a team like us that struggles to even get the ball in the final third this is a big problem.

What annoys me with Bruno is his lack of intelligence. You don’t need to hit the ball as hard as possible every time. A controlled shot that forces a save, rebound or wins a corner is fine too. You are better off hitting the target with a 70% power shot than ballooning it into the stands. Keepers make mistakes all the time. Also when it is raining it can skid off the turf.

We don’t do enough simple things well full stop. Our players don’t do things like working up the touchline, testing the keeper by hitting the target, drawing fouls in dangerous areas, winning corners etc. You have to play the percentages sometimes.

 

[PlasticRed]

Well if there is one team anyone needs when results arnt going their way, its Spurs. Doctor Tottenham never fails to heal a manager under pressure.

If we lose to Spurs were do we go from there?

 

[deef]

Well if there is one team anyone needs when results arnt going their way, its Spurs. Doctor Tottenham never fails to heal a manager under pressure.

If we lose to Spurs were do we go from there?

I would suggest we all lose our shit, compare every move to former managers, suggest which manager would get better results and call to sack the fraud

 

[JBG]

I would suggest we all lose our shit, compare every move to former managers, suggest which manager would get better results and call to sack the fraud

Sooo... basically continue with the same for most of the users these past weeks.

 

[Zico1982]

Opinion is changing among the fans. Up until now it has just been a few, but there is a growing dissatisfaction with what we are seeing on the pitch. It was quite obviously a mistake to go for Amorim mid season without funding the players he need in the january window. He is getting burnt right now, and the next games are crucial for him. Is this continues much longer, he will be out.

 

[Insanity]

Opinion is changing among the fans. Up until now it has just been a few, but there is a growing dissatisfaction with what we are seeing on the pitch. It was quite obviously a mistake to go for Amorim mid season without funding the players he need in the january window. He is getting burnt right now, and the next games are crucial for him. Is this continues much longer, he will be out.

Pretty crucial period before the international break. Spurs and Everton away followed by Ipswich and Fulham (FA cup) at home, Europa R16 with the Arsenal at home sandwiched in between and away against Leicester. In a normal season you'd consider four of the five PL fixtures winnable and also expect us to progress in both cup competitions. With this team any positive prediction will inevitably lead to disappointment. However, we won't find a better set of fixtures to get our season back on track. The manager would have had a couple of freer weeks to train the team that he has been banging on about since his first interview. The opposition is mostly bottom half teams or Europa level. The window is over and there are few distractions until the summer. The pantomime villain has been shipped out and the LWB signing everyone wanted is in.

Fingers crossed we will be able to pull some good performances and results in these 8 fixtures. If we are still fumbling by the end of it then serious questions would need to be asked.

 

[matsdf]

Did people expect him to implement his style mid season and get decent results out of it?

 

[Stretford_End99]

Did people expect him to implement his style mid season and get decent results out of it?

Don't think people expected us to change the manager and things to be bad as this !

The reason Ten Hag was sacked was because results were not good enough, the reason Amorim was appointed was to rectify that ......

 

[stefan92]

. It was quite obviously a mistake to go for Amorim mid season without funding the players he need in the january window.

Please stop. The idea that players have to be bought for a manager just has to die. The club needs players, not the manager.

 

[Gordon'sHill]

Did people expect him to implement his style mid season and get decent results out of it?

The fact that he seems wedded to a 'system' seems to be part of the problem. A system that only worked in a minor league and one that is not used by any leading teams in the major leagues. it was a risky choice by INEOS and presumably why Ashworth left, and at this stage its fair to say the jury is out. Its deeply concerning that we have another manager who needs his own specialist players before we can look half decent. I thought we were getting out of this dumb cycle.

 

[romufc]

Did people expect him to implement his style mid season and get decent results out of it?

I remember conversations before about how fans were like "as long as I see the style, dont care about results"

Now, the same ones will say "he needs to adapt to the players and get results"

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

How about shut up Ruben and concentrate on wining 1 of the 2 cup competitions your in instead of making up an excuse already as to why your not capable of coaching this squad to win a trophy!

100% record in those competitions so far, go figure

And stop using 'we' in your posts as though you speak for the entire fanbase. For the record, you only speak for the whiny little bitch element

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Did people expect him to implement his style mid season and get decent results out of it?

I think the answer to this should be yes. We should have course of anticipated some growing pains, but this has looked more problematic than that! I’m still willing to give him time mind you and I’m under no illusions about how hard this job is, but even with those mitigating factors the start has been very disappointing.

 

[Gavinb33]

Whilst most of us agree that Ruben should be given time at least until January 2026, current concerns regarding his performance so far are well justified. If we finish around 15-16th places this season without a deep run in the EL, then the pressure will be huge come next sesson. You can do a heart surgery all you want but performances need to improve which will lead to winning the trust and support of the Board and fans. PL is much stronger and much more competitive than the Premeira liga. What works in Portugal may not work in England as players- coaches- and finances levels wise the two are incomparable.

This is basically how I feel, he needs to show more than he has, he needs to inspire these players if we have no Europe next year with our PSR constraints it's hard to see how we can improve the squad by new players only next season, so he has to make it work with these players somehow because most of them will still be here next season

 

[P-Nut]

I remember conversations before about how fans were like "as long as I see the style, dont care about results"

Now, the same ones will say "he needs to adapt to the players and get results"

Yeah it's strange how little people can stomach.

I was in the camp of forget results and see a style being implemented. And so far that's what we are seeing.

It's obvious that no one is happy with the performances or results, but it was always going to be this way after coming off the back of complete chaos ball with Ten Hag and having a completely mismatched squad for playing any sort of progressive football.

 

[acnumber9]

I’d like to hear his quote in full context, do you have a link?

"It’s like playing with three is more or less the same playing with four,"

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/doesnt-make-sense-ruben-amorim-30682656.amp

It’s not the only time he’s said it. It’s different but not so different that we can’t expect to not be played off the park by Southampton. Anything else is noise and excuses.

Can you explain what’s so different to us mere mortals?

 

[acnumber9]

I remember conversations before about how fans were like "as long as I see the style, dont care about results"

Now, the same ones will say "he needs to adapt to the players and get results"

Is this the style? Because if it is we’re in massive trouble.

 

[stevoc]

I don't agree necessarily, Ruben Amorim is clearly going to live and die by his philosophies, he's not going to start tweaking them to achieve short term results.

Because that's what he thinks is best for him. Lets be honest.

EtH abandoned all of his principles and ideas within about ten minutes of walking through the door. Then we had to sit and listen to him tell us how great we had played every week and how it was only injuries to Shaw and Martinez that prevented us from winning the treble.

Ten Hag underestimated the league. He quickly adapted and overseen a decent season. What got him sacked was spending the next 18 months persevering with a brand of football that was never going to work.

Amorim is performing the open heart surgery that we actually needed on the squad and he's fronting up afterwards and telling us his real opinions on how bad it is!

Ten Hag already did that but fecked it up. By the way Ralfs original quote was referring to 8-10 new players. Erik went way past that.

 

[Dannn411]

I remember conversations before about how fans were like "as long as I see the style, dont care about results"

Now, the same ones will say "he needs to adapt to the players and get results"

Well if this is the style then the style is a disaster. The style is only justified if it leads to results. If we were parking the bus, getting dominated possession-wise, BUT winning games 1-0 and not staring down a relegation battle, the backlash would not be anywhere near what it is now.

 

[stefan92]

Ten Hag already did that but fecked it up. By the way Ralfs original quote was referring to 8-10 new players. Erik went way past that

and he didn't talk about selling half the squad, he mentioned it in regard to a bunch of contracts ending as well.

 

[romufc]

Is this the style? Because if it is we’re in massive trouble.

Well if this is the style then the style is a disaster. The style is only justified if it leads to results. If we were parking the bus, getting dominated possession-wise, BUT winning games 1-0 and not staring down a relegation battle, the backlash would not be anywhere near what it is now.

Its funny to see because its quite clear fans dont want to see style without results.. but will say things like "i rather see style for rest of season" when its not true.

If neither of you can see the style he wants to build with, I cant say much.

@Dannn411 you are incorrect actually.. we had that last season under Ten Hag when we were dominated in every game but won a few games and werent in relegation form, yet the backlash was the same, so its incorrect saying it wouldn't be what it is now.

There is obviously a style of play we want to play, then its opinion whether you like it or not.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Because that's what he thinks is best for him. Lets be honest.

This doesn't make any sense unless I'm misunderstanding your point. Would winning some games not be the best thing for Ruben in the here and now?

 

[Zico1982]

Manchester United fans will always expect the club to win and play decent football. That cannot come as a surprise for anyone. We are not doing any of those things, and it seems that we are getting worse instead of getting better. Even when we win, we are mostly looking bad. The players have no confidence. Sometimes we don´t even really put up a fight. We let Leicester, Southampton and Crystal Palace dominate us for big parts of the games. That is simply not acceptable to the average Manchester United fan. Is it Amorims fault? Well. It doesn´t really matter. The fans will react to what they see, and that is abysmal right now.

The main problem is management. It is pretty clear that the Glazers and Ineos are not managing the club to the standard it deserves. They make one bad decision after the other. To get Amorim in mid season was just one of them. I did not expect him to get us in the top four or anything like that. I did expect him to make progress with the squad we have though. That must always be the premise to succeed. Amorim must have expected that as well. Else he would not have said yes to come here. The progress is nowhere to be seen.

I would have expected us to be somewhere between 6-10th place now. Instead we are playing like a relegation candidate. That is frustrating for everyone, and no trainer has a free ticket at a club like Manchester United. The squad IS badly put together, but we still have a lot of quality players who should never play like this. That part IS on Amorim. He needs to find a solution to getting us points, even if he has to compromise on his ideas for a while. Else he will be gone sooner than later. Right now the combination of bad management/stubborn trainer/wrong squad for his precious 3-4-3 is killing the fans AND the team. He will also begin to lose the dressing room if we are not beginning to progress soon.

I am not hating on Amorim. He is clearly being set up to fail right now with the lack of funding for new players. Shame on Ineos and the Glazers. It is legitimate to criticize his tactical choices though, the inverted wingbacks and the flawed striker-set up being the most obvious mistakes. How the f... can you play a 9 like that? If you play everyone inverted, the striker will never get sufficient chances to score. Then he is only there to hold up play and make space for the other players. Well. That doesn´t work out for us. We don´t have the players for doing that. That is not rocket science. I see that all the time when we play, and I´m surely not the only one to do so. Amorim should see that as well and react.

I would still have loved to get Thomas Frank, but we have chosen Ruben Amorim. I really hope he gets it right, but I AM starting to doubt.

 

[Dannn411]

Its funny to see because its quite clear fans dont want to see style without results.. but will say things like "i rather see style for rest of season" when its not true.

If neither of you can see the style he wants to build with, I cant say much.

@Dannn411 you are incorrect actually.. we had that last season under Ten Hag when we were dominated in every game but won a few games and werent in relegation form, yet the backlash was the same, so its incorrect saying it wouldn't be what it is now.

There is obviously a style of play we want to play, then its opinion whether you like it or not.

Ten Hag had spent nearly £400m on players and regressed from the previous season. Of course there's going to be mass dissatisfaction with that. At that point, your leash is short.

Amorim has just started and has only spent £25m. The goal for him is just show us evidence of an effective style without throwing us into a potential relegation battle. There is evidence of a style but the style (in the way he is implementing) it is neither attractive nor not effective. 3-4-3 can be much more effective and attractive than the way he is implementing it.

 

[Gavinb33]

Yeah it's strange how little people can stomach.

I was in the camp of forget results and see a style being implemented. And so far that's what we are seeing.

It's obvious that no one is happy with the performances or results, but it was always going to be this way after coming off the back of complete chaos ball with Ten Hag and having a completely mismatched squad for playing any sort of progressive football.

I'm curious except for playing 3 at the back what style are we seeing, we are ponderous in possession, toothless in attack and concede lots of goals at the back.

If we saw 1 of the 3 improving I could say yes we are seeing something but with or without the ball we don't seem to have improved any since he took over, that's my main moan, concern, argument call it what you want but that's what I see, if you see anything different happy to listen.

 

[Gordon'sHill]

Well if this is the style then the style is a disaster. The style is only justified if it leads to results. If we were parking the bus, getting dominated possession-wise, BUT winning games 1-0 and not staring down a relegation battle, the backlash would not be anywhere near what it is now.

I agree, these posts are silly. Its not about a 'style' its looking coached and well drilled. So that we are not cut open at will, as we were last season wit

Ten Hag had spent nearly £400m on players and regressed from the previous season. Of course there's going to be mass dissatisfaction with that. At that point, your leash is short.

Amorim has just started and has only spent £25m. The goal for him is just show us evidence of an effective style without throwing us into a potential relegation battle. There is evidence of a style but the style (in the way he is implementing) it is neither attractive nor not effective. 3-4-3 can be much more effective and attractive than the way he is implementing it.

I think the word style is used too broadly. We want a team that looks well coached and organised that delivers effective football, even if not winning. So the likes of Bournemouth, Brighton and Forest all do this with slightly different styles. ETH just delivered ping pong chaos and there were lots of excuses about him needing the 'right' players, but despite all the spending we were always cut wide open and vacated the centre of the park. It was never evident what his 'style' was nor what really the Ajax way was. The problem is with Amorim his 'system' to date means that we are still cut open too readily, midfield is constantly overrun and the 3CBs all pulled out of position. If anything the lack of cohesion has got worse the longer he has been here.

 

[stepic]

"It’s like playing with three is more or less the same playing with four,"

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/doesnt-make-sense-ruben-amorim-30682656.amp

It’s not the only time he’s said it. It’s different but not so different that we can’t expect to not be played off the park by Southampton. Anything else is noise and excuses.

Can you explain what’s so different to us mere mortals?

as i said, his system is more than just adding a centre back. if you take a look at the rest of his quote:

"But I have to sell my idea, if I change all the time it will be even worse. But I understand they have a lot of difficulties because they spend two years playing one way and now playing another, with a lot of losses, is really tough on them and you can feel it during the games. Even when we try to score, was more from them than the organisation. You have to feel it. I have to sell my idea, I cannot find another one."

you can clearly see he is trying to implement a new way of playing.

in fact, it's such a ridiculous point you're trying to make, suggesting that Amorim's system is more of less the same as ETH's - there must be 50 threads on this forum discussing his style and system. i'm happy to talk you through the stylistic differences, but I also don't believe what you're saying, I think you’re just backing yourself into a corner to try and justify your point. i'm assuming you must have seen the odd Sporting game for starters.

of course we shouldn't be played off the park by Southampton, but as i've already said, it's a combination of a) the players still learning his system and, more concerning b) some of our players are simply incapable of playing the way he wants - largely because we have a whole lot of dross in our squad. it's not difficult to see this will have a downturn on results.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

I agree, these posts are silly. Its not about a 'style' its looking coached and well drilled. So that we are not cut open at will, as we were last season wit

when have we been cut open at will since Amorim came?! I'd be the first to admit that we haven't seen the kind of progress that we were hoping for, but this is one of the few areas where there has been a demonstrable improvement! What an odd comment to make.

 

[P-Nut]

I'm curious except for playing 3 at the back what style are we seeing, we are ponderous in possession, toothless in attack and concede lots of goals at the back.

If we saw 1 of the 3 improving I could say yes we are seeing something but with or without the ball we don't seem to have improved any since he took over, that's my main moan, concern, argument call it what you want but that's what I see, if you see anything different happy to listen.

We command the ball a lot more than we did under Ten Hag, we build up a lot more deliberately as well rather than constantly taking the quickest route to goal. We also defend better most of the time, and can see out games better than we ever did under Ten Hag.

If we could speed our play up then we'd open teams up a lot more, but that is something that will take repetitions and time on the training ground, something Amorim has had precious little of.

I don't think it's hard to see what he wants us to progress into, but I do think we won't see it in full flow until late next season and I don't think the fan base has the stomach to wait that long.

I'm not saying I'd be happy waiting that long if it was like this until then either, but my hope and expectation is that from the start of next season we see more of our attacking output.

 

[Woziak]

100% record in those competitions so far, go figure

And stop using 'we' in your posts as though you speak for the entire fanbase. For the record, you only speak for the whiny little bitch element

We draw with Arsenal and lost to Spurs go figure and I’m trying to be balanced and already said we need to support the coach but he and fans like you need to start challenging him on his outlandish remarks, they are not necessary and constantly changing the team doesn’t allow players to learn the system, he’s one lper at PL level, no one’s talking hyperbolically about sacking him, people are questioning and rightfully so his stupid comments and his constant tinkering with the personal for the team rather than picking his best 11 that currently suits his system and then stick to it!

The entire fan base are not happy with losing game after game at old Trafford in the EPL to moderate opposition or maybe you go home after the game and crack open a bottle of Moet after we constant lose easily to Forrest, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Brighton and Palace.

Amorim said you win games you win time, we’ll start doing that then?

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I remember conversations before about how fans were like "as long as I see the style, dont care about results"

Now, the same ones will say "he needs to adapt to the players and get results"

People probably meant "I don't care if the results have us in 6th or 7th or so."

 

[romufc]

Ten Hag had spent nearly £400m on players and regressed from the previous season. Of course there's going to be mass dissatisfaction with that. At that point, your leash is short.

Amorim has just started and has only spent £25m. The goal for him is just show us evidence of an effective style without throwing us into a potential relegation battle. There is evidence of a style but the style (in the way he is implementing) it is neither attractive nor not effective. 3-4-3 can be much more effective and attractive than the way he is implementing it.

So its a moving goal post...

You can decide in 2 months that the style is effective and attractive can you?

So there is evidence of style of play... its just not what you want.

 

[romufc]

People probably meant "I don't care if the results have us in 6th or 7th or so."

Then they should have qualified that.... not keep moving the goal post.