Personal attacks and name calling of players

It's all about context isn't it.

Like, I call Onana a clown... and by that I don't mean he as a person is a clown... I mean when he's between the sticks for us, acting as our goalkeeper, he's a total joke.

Similar, if someone called Sancho a knob after his "freedom" stuff... You're basically saying he's acting like a knob, which, well he was.

Just randomly calling someone a tosser or a cnut, well then yeah... no need for that... but I'm sure in the heat of the moment/frustation its easy to let an insult slip.
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
No. This club is too easy to play for. We shouldn't put up with this garbage.

Old Trafford is very forgiving and fair with a few exceptions.

Being a united player makes you a global star instantly. Play like it. People died for this club.

If you're shit you deserve to be called out. If you don't try you should be booted out.
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Imagine if this was Real Madrid, their fans wouldn't accept this nonsense.
 
good thread, discussion worth having. a good few posters need to calm down.... my 2 cents
 
There's this neurotic idea, which you can see in this thread, that online fans can somehow will United into being better by being sufficiently angry online. You're not going to make struggling young forwards into better finishers by yelling about them on an online forum, sorry to say.
 
Loads of people missing the point in here as usual.
 
I think it's hugely valid to criticise players performances on the pitch, as passionately as you like.

I am literally talking about not calling them clowns and pricks. If pushed I also think there are some narratives about players characters that we could do without but that is a more nuanced point as sometimes it's totally relevant to discuss a players character.

So as a starting point if I had a magic wand then calming down on the name calling would be a good start.
 
I`m all for better posts and conversations on the redcafe but I think many of us who have been around for a long time do not want to experience a censored/sanitized forum where posters can`t even engage in some blunt assessments of players who are clearly not pulling their weight or letting the team, club and fans down.

I agree that calling a player a clown is unnecessary but are banter and observations such as `Harry Maguire stood there like a lump of lead and didn`t even think of moving for the rebound` so threatening? Michael Owen commented after the Spurs game that Harry was `sleeping`, is the other comment that could be made by a poster `toxic` and `insulting`? And even if opinions of players can be harsh, context is everything. Somebody letting slip some unvarnished outburst over a player or being highly critical of what they do or did should be given leeway as long as they don`t constantly make references like that regardless of what the player is or isn`t doing.

I`d also like to see a more even handed attitude to what is supposedly unacceptable - I`ve noticed an increase in posters on the redcafe calling those who don`t share their views `bigots` even when their posts clearly outline in rational and non bigoted ways why a poster doesn`t agree with a certain view. I`d like more focus on encouraging different opinions without posters labelling others some ism or using loaded terms like `bigot` but escaping consequences.
 
Wonder Pigeon said:
There's this neurotic idea, which you can see in this thread, that online fans can somehow will United into being better by being sufficiently angry online. You're not going to make struggling young forwards into better finishers by yelling about them on an online forum, sorry to say.
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Sorry, I don`t really see the relevance of the points you`re making. Posters aren`t trying to make players better by `yelling about them on an online forum` - they`re giving their real opinions on the club they care about and human nature being what it is, like all online forums there will be venting from some.

I`ve never called a player `feckin useless` for example but I get that kind of language is of the moment and how football fans will be talking in real life. We don`t want post after post of the person who said it calling the player `feckin useless` but at times it`s a vent.
 
ryansgirl said:
Sorry, I don`t really see the relevance of the points you`re making. Posters aren`t trying to make players better by `yelling about them on an online forum` - they`re giving their real opinions on the club they care about and human nature being what it is, like all online forums there will be venting from some.

I`ve never called a player `feckin useless` for example but I get that kind of language is of the moment and how football fans will be talking in real life. We don`t want post after post of the person who said it calling the player `feckin useless` but at times it`s a vent.
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The comparison that's always brought is up is Real Madrid, including a few posts above. That their fans wouldn't accept poor standards, that United fans that are at the games don't boo enough, that the United fanbase as a whole is in someway responsible for performances on the pitch by "accepting" them and not having an equivalent to the Real-style whistling and hankies. Venting and giving opinions is all good but it's definitely curdled on here over the last decade into this pointless self-flagellating.
 
Wonder Pigeon said:
The comparison that's always brought is up is Real Madrid, including a few posts above. That their fans wouldn't accept poor standards, that United fans that are at the games don't boo enough, that the United fanbase as a whole is in someway responsible for performances on the pitch by "accepting" them and not having an equivalent to the Real-style whistling and hankies. Venting and giving opinions is all good but it's definitely curdled on here over the last decade into this pointless self-flagellating.
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Fair enough, relevant points. I think some of the Italian teams` supporters, too, are disgraceful in the way they get on the players` backs and certainly it wouldn`t be good to see that normalized here.
 
SirAF said:
Imagine if this was Real Madrid, their fans wouldn't accept this nonsense.
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Real Madrids enviroment is also pretty much the best you can get in terms of facilities etc. Ours are among the worst in relation to the size of our Club.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
We are going through our worst period as a club in most of our lifetimes. There isn't a lot to be happy about and whole lot to be frustrated about.

As such there is justifiably a huge amount of criticism about form and individual quality. This makes total sense and not addressing it would be burying our heads in the sand.

With this unfortunately seems to come a slightly more nasty side. Obviously this spikes when we lose but even just in general there seems to be an absolute flood of ad-hominem attacks on the players and the manager.

I think that ultimately there will be some big decisions to be made about a lot of players in our squad. A number of them are not good enough for what we want to do. However I don't think that we have a group who don't care or are actively disrespecting the club. Calling them pricks and clowns just seems jarring to me.

I spend a good amount of time on here and call me over sensitive but it just feels toxic and unpleasant. Anyway, feel free to close this mods as I'm not even sure where this goes, just really started to grate.
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Blaming someone and calling names is always easier than identifying the problem and proposing a solution.

It requires less thought
 
LittleP14 said:
I get what your saying and there is no place for personal insults, but there's also another side to it.

These players are playing for Manchester United, and with that comes an element of scrutiny. In years gone by, the standards at Manchester United have been so high only the best got the chance to put on a shirt and play out at Old Trafford in front of sell out crowds.

Some of these players are on big, big wages. Match going fans are paying big, big money - not just in ticket prices but also travel, food, drink, merchandise etc.

The players have to accept that there is going to be an element of fan backlash when they are playing like the Dog and Duck on a Sunday. They have made Manchester United into a laughing stock this season and that is not acceptable. They should absolutely be held accountable, much like the circus that is in charge of the club as a whole.
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I agree with what you’re saying but that doesn’t explain why we couldn’t criticise them and hold them accountable without the childish name-calling and insults.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
It's all about context isn't it.

Like, I call Onana a clown... and by that I don't mean he as a person is a clown... I mean when he's between the sticks for us, acting as our goalkeeper, he's a total joke.

Similar, if someone called Sancho a knob after his "freedom" stuff... You're basically saying he's acting like a knob, which, well he was.

Just randomly calling someone a tosser or a cnut, well then yeah... no need for that... but I'm sure in the heat of the moment/frustation its easy to let an insult slip.
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You have the right to your opinion but can you tell what Onana has done that is actually `clownish` enough to call him that? I haven`t seen your posts so I don`t know if you call him that regularly which seems one of the issues people have with some criticism of players.

For me a clown of a goalkeeper would do things like leaving his area and trying to look special getting involved upfield. Or getting caught out of his area and looking stupid more than a few times. The only keeper I remember doing that was Peter Shmeicel (think I`ve misspelt the name) and it was a risky move, not a clownish one. Onana doesn`t do any foolish attention seeking etc as goalkeeper - I and most would say calling him a `clown` regularly if you`re doing that or semi-regularly isn`t necessary.

I missed the Sancho `freedom` references - what did he actually say? I`ve never called a player a `knob` or similar but it happens on here as a substitute for `fool` but again, if there`s a regularity or semi regularity about it and the reasons for it hardly fit using that term that way, then again it`s unnecessary.
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
No. This club is too easy to play for. We shouldn't put up with this garbage.

Old Trafford is very forgiving and fair with a few exceptions.

Being a united player makes you a global star instantly. Play like it. People died for this club.

If you're shit you deserve to be called out. If you don't try you should be booted out.
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Who died for this club?

Seriously. The Munich crash was a tragedy (I think this is what you are referring to right?!) but absolutely no one has had a gun to their head and told 'leave the club or you will die'.

This hyperbole is getting out of hand. By all means, demand the players work harder and do better, but claiming people need to die to measure up to your standards is weird.
 
CallyRed said:
Attack the player, not the person
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Not sure it is that easy. Rashford and Sancho for example are for me shit as players, weak mentality and also I don't like them on a personal level. Shit attitude, think they are better than they are. The sooner they are gone the better. I have tons of more respect and time for Maguire for example. Less talented, also fame got to his head, the fall from grace. But he showed mental fortuitude when the going gets tough. The shit he had to go through. Established himself back in the team. I have a lot more respect for him than beforementioned clowns.
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
No. This club is too easy to play for. We shouldn't put up with this garbage.

Old Trafford is very forgiving and fair with a few exceptions.

Being a united player makes you a global star instantly. Play like it. People died for this club.

If you're shit you deserve to be called out. If you don't try you should be booted out.
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“This is the most ridiculous post in this thread.”

See? Instead of “the f*** cnut doesn’t give a shit, get rid!”, you go “he play like fcuking shit!”
 
SonOfFergie said:
Not sure it is that easy. Rashford and Sancho for example are for me shit as players, weak mentality and also I don't like them on a personal level. Shit attitude, think they are better than they are. The sooner they are gone the better. I have tons of more respect and time for Maguire for example. Less talented, also fame got to his head, the fall from grace. But he showed mental fortuitude when the going gets tough. The shit he had to go through. Established himself back in the team. I have a lot more respect for him than beforementioned clowns.
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This is insane. You’ve been influenced by nonsense and don’t even realise it.
 
This is not exclusively a caf issue or even a United issue. Public discourse has become more and more toxic over the years an just keeps getting worse. People feel entitled to say absolutely anything that pops into their heads. On North Stand Chat for example, I've seen Mitoma treated appallingly, Hurzeler treated the same. Blue moon does it with their players, especially after yesterday! and the Bristol Rovers forum that I lurk on can be absolutely atrocious (I blame Joey Barton fans for that!).

Good on the caf mods for trying to sort it here and if we can clean up our tiny corner of the internet a bit, then great, but it's a much much wider issue.
 
Wumminator said:
This is insane. You’ve been influenced by nonsense and don’t even realise it.
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Yep.

The abuse Rashford has had is genuinely insane. Like, people became obsessed with it for a period. There were a couple of threads a day about him at one point. Greenwood got less hate ffs.

On Twitter, people were essentially doing a minute by minute analysis of his every move in matches. He got slated for going to a Basketball match when all the players were given time off. It was fecking obscene.

But, as I keep saying, ever since 2013, we've had to have a scapegoat. The decline of the club was down to one or two individual players. It was Young and Fellaini in 2013. It was Smalling around 2015. It was Lukaku. Then it was Pogba, Lingard, Martial, Maguire and Rashford. We love to pin the blame of everything on one or two players.

Give it 18 months and the blame will be at Mainoo/Amad/Garnacho's door.
 
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Walters_19_MuFc said:
100% agree with this. The lack of respect shown towards our team is ridiculous.
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1. I don’t engage in the petty abuse.

2. Underperforming players on ALL teams get abused.

3. I doubt any players come here and read the abuse.

4. Just win (or improve) and much of this nonsense will go away.
 
If you're triggered by another person's comments on here then that's a you problem. feck me it's not like the players actually come on here and read stuff about themselves. And even if they did maybe they should fix up and improve their football and stop going to the press with leaks all the time.
 
LordSpud said:
If you're triggered by another person's comments on here then that's a you problem. feck me it's not like the players actually come on here and read stuff about themselves. And even if they did maybe they should fix up and improve their football and stop going to the press with leaks all the time.
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It's not if people are poisoning a forum with completely over the top abuse of people just doing a job
 
Superden said:
It's not if people are poisoning a forum with completely over the top abuse of people just doing a job
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Do it better then. The abuse doesn't come if people see positives. There are currently no positives, therefore it's all fair game.

You shit on my weekend (most weekends nowadays) while getting paid tens/hundreds thousands of pounds? I'm gonna call it out.
 
LordSpud said:
If you're triggered by another person's comments on here then that's a you problem. feck me it's not like the players actually come on here and read stuff about themselves. And even if they did maybe they should fix up and improve their football and stop going to the press with leaks all the time.
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This is a stupid point. Stop being stupid.
 
LordSpud said:
Do it better then. The abuse doesn't come if people see positives. There are currently no positives, therefore it's all fair game
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Yeah that'll get them going. Just play better and you won't be abused.

Some of the shit on here has just been plain vicious. If people cannot control their anger in a format where they have time to consider their words, type them and then post it they've probably got issues.
 
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