No we weren't 'all saying it'.
I predicted 8th with this squad and I overrated us/underrated others.
There's nowhere near enough goals in this squad. It's delusional to think otherwise.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
I predicted 8th with this squad and I overrated us/underrated others.
There's nowhere near enough goals in this squad. It's delusional to think otherwise.
Heck no. This season has gone exactly as I, and many others, expected after not sacking ten Hag last season.
But this wasn't what was wrong before. The managers before had way more than just one transfer window. Amorim is here since 3 month. I agree with you, the manager shouldn't be excluded from criticism but criticism that is calling for him to be sacked is a different level, I am sure you will agree on that, wouldn't you?
This right now isn't just Amorim failing with his system. It is failing with a new system and with multiple players from the starting lineup being out injured while players that are expected to contribute like Rashford and Antony were so off, that they had to be loaned out. The players have to be criticized and as said in another post, we don't fail right now because we aren't able to perform some crazy exotic 3-4-3 magic, we fail because we get outrun and outworked and concede from setpieces and individual blunders.
This is not even taking a stance for Amorim - it is a reminder of "who the feck are we supposed to bring in?"
It‘s not the system or the formation. These players have performed poorly in different systems and under different managers.
Ten Hag and Amorim have tried everything. Something is not working and I‘d love to tell you what it is, but no one knows.
All we can do is keep trying and keep improving the squad.
Just my two cents but I’d give him the Europa league and if he fails in that I’d sack him late April early May.
We’ve regressed under him. He can’t seem to coach set pieces or get his set piece coach to improve us. His subs are odd a lot of the time. I thought Yoro was playing well, unless he was injured.
Signing five or six players won’t improve us on set piece defending. We are the worst in the league at defending set pieces along with Southampton.
You have to see a bit of a bounce with a new manager. Look at Villa, or now Everton etc.
It’s a shame because I like him but you can’t be so rigid tactically.
Hope I’m wrong but I don’t see it with him.
We’ve regressed under him. He can’t seem to coach set pieces or get his set piece coach to improve us. His subs are odd a lot of the time. I thought Yoro was playing well, unless he was injured.
Signing five or six players won’t improve us on set piece defending. We are the worst in the league at defending set pieces along with Southampton.
You have to see a bit of a bounce with a new manager. Look at Villa, or now Everton etc.
It’s a shame because I like him but you can’t be so rigid tactically.
Hope I’m wrong but I don’t see it with him.
We're simply not a squad that could afford to lose mainoo, amad and Martinez. There's so little ability on the ball and to play at pace left in the squad.
He’s absolutely stinking the place out with his insistence on stacking his team full of defenders, and even his own new “wingback” seems about as exciting as watching paint dry.
But some of you think if he gets another Dorgu and a forward we’ll suddenly be miles better? Deluded.
Honestly don’t think we could’ve made a worse appointment than this stubborn, inflexible “truth speaker”.
But some of you think if he gets another Dorgu and a forward we’ll suddenly be miles better? Deluded.
Honestly don’t think we could’ve made a worse appointment than this stubborn, inflexible “truth speaker”.
Well the last point has a scale. There's a difference between having the opinion that the manager needs 1 summer window to be judged on, and with posters wanting a full squad of his players (made up of 2-3 summer windows) to judge him by. The former is still a short leash, while the latter is something no other club, but ours tends to do. I think the former is reasonable, and the latter is blind manager faith that this forum and many of the club's fans have repeated over the years.
He needs better profiles for those wide players and for individuals to understand how their movement will exploit other teams and drag them out of position.
It’s a big adjustment for some, but I really think it will work with better movement and more threatening attackers.
I really believe, if he has a summer to coach this, that it will click. When it eventually clicked at Sporting, it really clicked.
100% no coach can get us out of this shit it's a recruitment problem that needs windows to fix.
Amorim is cooked unfortunately. Wilcox, the only football person in this great new structure after Ashwords sacking, most likely has had enough. Berrada will try and stick with Ruben to save his own ass but more results like these and Brailsford and Jimmy Brexit will sack Berrada on top of sacking Ruben. Vivell has no say in this decision.
What is going on here is the patience game. United`s not likely to do anything successful in the near future except avoid relegation. The impatience post Ferguson was understandable when it was Moyes, he was too small minded for the big Manchester United picture but now after all the managerial sackings there has to be a period of wait and see at the club. The days of United playing attractive, attacking football and buying players who aren`t big names but turn out to be title winners and European Cup winners are gone.
If Louis Van Gaal had been given time, I think he would have prioritised attacking football but he was gone too soon. The old paradigm is gone, there should be a halt to the new paradigm of managerial musical chairs for enough time to see Amorim make some inroads into United`s playing problems. The kind of rebuilding needed is one of having to experiment, test the squad`s ability to adapt until new players can be brought in and it won`t be exciting or fun to watch but without it, it will be just another manager and the same old same old.
Wouldn't surprise me if this were the case. When Wilcox was temporarily in charge at the end of last season (before the others started their jobs), he was the loudest voice in favor of developing a top-down "game model" throughout the club, which we've seemingly abandoned since the others came in.
And who do you think will be brought in to replace Ruben?
Genuine question but can we recall the likes of Sancho from his loan purely on the basis of numbers?
Why? So he can stink out the place, not our problem anymore
Although I am losing confidence in his abilities, we must not fall into the temptation of changing manager before he has had a chance to have a pre-season and bring in suitable candidates. If he is getting absolutely nowhere by Dec 2025, then maybe we can consider playing low-block counter-attacking football to stabilise things. In which case, getting Rashford back and buying players suited to this style is preferred. Then we can go down the Southgate route. After all, this brand of football is not crazy hard to coach? We may need to learn to crawl properly again before dreaming of running.
He's been handed an absolute shitshow and been thrown under the bus by those above him. The attacking options he's got are woeful.
Eventually he's going to pay with his job if these results continue but the new regime are the main culprits for this.
Eventually he's going to pay with his job if these results continue but the new regime are the main culprits for this.
Yup - we are missing about 5 starter quality players at the moment due to injury. Add the 4 who have been banished / loaned. Imagine if we had the 5 back and decent replacement for the 3 we have loaned.
Sell whoever it takes to get the £15M required to pay him out, it’s the best money we can spend at this moment in time. He’s completely out of depth and it’s genuinely best for everyone to call this appointment what it is, an absolute failure.
Stacking evidence? We haven't seen Amorim's system with players who all fit the correct profiles. He's making do. We will acquire several players in the summer, who will fit like a glove. This will help greatly.
Amorim doesn't change. We have always known this. Let's not pretend that this is new information. We support his idea and give him the time and opportunity to put it into practice. Not judge him by the scraps he has inherited.
This attitude is appalling and is representative of much of the nonsense that you see on here.
The arrogance of a manager of 5 years to stick to his ‘winning principles’ in the face of such obvious evidence to the contrary is nauseating.
He won the Portuguese league and now acts like he has some long standing, unbreakable formula which he cannot deviate from. He’s deluded.
This club shouldn’t be one man’s ego trip.
He won the Portuguese league and now acts like he has some long standing, unbreakable formula which he cannot deviate from. He’s deluded.
This club shouldn’t be one man’s ego trip.
I fear he doesn't get the time if we get knocked out of Europa League in next two rounds. Could see the players dropping completely with nothing to play for.
You lot would of had Fergie sacked after his first season. No manager will be good enough because of the dross on the pitch. Pep wouldn't win with these players. Stick with Amorim, get a few more of the players he needs in, we will come good.
Totally agree with you.
BUT......
Do you think he has this team setup in the best possible way to win now?
Do you think that in any way the 5221 / 3421 or whatever, is helping the players he has today?
Just who we need. A player of real character.
The same Fergie who took the club from 21st to 11th in his first season, and then 2nd in his first full season?
I've lost all faith in him but it doesn't mean he can't turns things around next season. It would be madness to sack him and fork out another 14m. He has definitely contributed to our fall to the depths of the table.
Hasn't had a chance, squad is ravaged by injury. Needs to be given time.
He is not getting sacked, regardless of the Europa League result.
It is so simplistic for people to say "You have to see a bit of a bounce with a new manager. Look at Villa, or now Everton etc."
Im kind of sick of that basic "TalkSport" argument because every situation is different.
Perhaps in the case of Villa and Everton, the manager was the issue, so bringing in a new one creates that bounce. In the case of Villa, a change from Gerrard to Emery is a massive step up in pedigree.
Maybe Ten Hag was getting the best anyone could out of a limited United squad. So bringing in a new manager in this case has not created the bounce you speak of.
I do agree re lack of willingness to change his formation/system to the players he has, but we all know that others have done the same and its not worked.
To sack a manager, who has just been ground in 4 months ago at great cost, and to expect a new one to do better with this crappy squad, is just madness.
No clue Ryan, and Im afraid its not about manager (or head coach) anymore.
It really looked to me like INEOS had started the right way - putting qualiffied footballing structure togheter.
Turns out the person capable of making a funcioning football operations (Ashword) was sacked within few months, an under qualiffied Berrada taking over criticall sporting desicions, with Brailsford/Jimmy Brexit with no clue about football making final decisions. Talented people like Vivell also brought in but with very little say in the whole operation.
That said, INEOS have taken on such a mess that even with 100% sucess of their decisions, the club would still be a mess today, with little chance to get out of difficult situation Glazers have put the club into.
Would have kept RVN for as long as his "bounce" had been working. Same with McKenna, should have been kept. Now? No idea, there is going to be pretty hard decisions to be made sooner rather than later.
Ashworth went hunting for a new manager while Ten Hag was still in place and before the FA Cup final. And it leeked.
He decided that keeping Ten Hag was the right thing to do, despite him being underminded. He then backed him with over 200mil of players inc two of his former Ajax player and another Dutch flop in Zirkzee.
When Ten Hag was sacked he came up with the most vanilla of names, including Southgate.
Went on holiday the day after Amorim came in.
All sackable offences, imo.
None of this is even remotely true
Never ceases to amaze me how few of our fans understand how well Fergie did after taking over mid-season compared to what happened before him and then how well he continued that on his second ( first full ) season.
His start was the fecking polar opposite of the Amorim horror show.
Educate yourselves for God’s sake.
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If the talk is true about him already telling those players who are not in his future plans, with how threadbare we are and how we’re playing, that seems like naive and frankly baffling management.
A 17-years old with average cameo was 10 times better than Hojlund.
Nothing wrong with our performance against a very in form Fulham side. We created enough and should have won before penalties. 5 big chances missed speaks volumes. Once again our attacking players let us down massively.
Garnacho on 50 shots without scoring now.
Nothing wrong with our performance against a very in form Fulham side. We created enough and should have won before penalties. 5 big chances missed speaks volumes. Once again our attacking players let us down massively.
Garnacho on 50 shots without scoring now.
Blaming the system for the results is way off. He’s playing give or take the best 11 available players most games. They can’t avoid basic defensive errors for 90 minutes- stupid stuff that would happen and cost you in any formation. Same with our attack they can’t put away decent chances.
He was right to impose standards and get players who were not putting in the effort out of the dressing room. The squad has under performed for nearly a decade, we need a manager that has standards. But a bit of a balance between keeping authority and also not alienating all players. Seems to be working at this.
Not his fault we didn’t bring in players to replace the loan outs, when we had a few injuries we see how bare the squad is. We really needed to find a couple of players on loan that could make some contributions- not a high bar.
Could he make us look better at the moment, probably. We could play defensive counter attacking and have tried to keep Rashford and Sancho etc half way motivated. But we would be just sticking in the same slow decline rut. And it would be just deferring the change that’s needed.
I don’t know if the formation will work but I like that it forces players to do their job and highlights where they don’t perform. At some point we need to have players play proper football rather than using the equivalent of Fred McTominay double pivot to paper over cracks. When you rip off that paper and see the cracks it’s ugly but at least we see the biggest areas we need to fill.
Biggest problem has been squad building and retention/management. I am somewhat hopeful this is improving gross under performing relative to ability is not being tolerated, better characters like Bruno and Maguire are playing better than they have recently and new signings like Dorgu looks good.
We need to see at least three players in and possibly two out and a proper pre season before we even consider another change in direction. I think we will see some reasons for optimism after a couple of good additions- solid not spectacular and a return of some injured players.
It’s painful now but that’s because of squad quality not anything Amorim is doing.
He was right to impose standards and get players who were not putting in the effort out of the dressing room. The squad has under performed for nearly a decade, we need a manager that has standards. But a bit of a balance between keeping authority and also not alienating all players. Seems to be working at this.
Not his fault we didn’t bring in players to replace the loan outs, when we had a few injuries we see how bare the squad is. We really needed to find a couple of players on loan that could make some contributions- not a high bar.
Could he make us look better at the moment, probably. We could play defensive counter attacking and have tried to keep Rashford and Sancho etc half way motivated. But we would be just sticking in the same slow decline rut. And it would be just deferring the change that’s needed.
I don’t know if the formation will work but I like that it forces players to do their job and highlights where they don’t perform. At some point we need to have players play proper football rather than using the equivalent of Fred McTominay double pivot to paper over cracks. When you rip off that paper and see the cracks it’s ugly but at least we see the biggest areas we need to fill.
Biggest problem has been squad building and retention/management. I am somewhat hopeful this is improving gross under performing relative to ability is not being tolerated, better characters like Bruno and Maguire are playing better than they have recently and new signings like Dorgu looks good.
We need to see at least three players in and possibly two out and a proper pre season before we even consider another change in direction. I think we will see some reasons for optimism after a couple of good additions- solid not spectacular and a return of some injured players.
It’s painful now but that’s because of squad quality not anything Amorim is doing.
We're still playing defensive counter attacking football as you put it. Nothing has really changed on that front. The only big difference is that we've become weaker in the attacking areas with the departures of several players and that has made our counter attacks worse.
There was a issue last season where we had a problem progressing the ball in the build up phase and also had a problem defending transitions and both of those problems still exist and the midfield is a big weaknesses which is currently compounded further by the players that have departed in attack without having replacements.
I don't think the question for me is the coach right now but rather how they're going to go about rectifying issues which can only be rectified by signing the right players.
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His honesty thing is doing way too much. There's a limit to it. You don't need to be constantly negative all the time and say you have no idea how to fix it. ETH was annoying with his nonsense but that was preferable to what Amorim comes out with. (Not really but after reading his interviews you think it for a second)