Perhaps but for Amorims system we'll probably need to have a few more centrebacks and no10s than we would normally if we were planning on using 433/4231.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Perhaps but for Amorims system we'll probably need to have a few more centrebacks and no10s than we would normally if we were planning on using 433/4231.
To me these positions aren't an issue. We have the central CBs in De Ligt and Yoro, the potential addition should be a CB/Fullback type, players in the mold of Pavard or Branthwaite. As for the 10s, you don't need a traditional 10 for either spots, you can have an attacking 8 and a player that is normally a wide playmaker with very good ball carying skills. That's what I mean when I say that the club shouldn't sign any specialists, don't sign players that are pure 10s, CBs or wingbacks. As an example in his prime Candreva would have been perfect for us but I would not sign him, instead someone like Valencia makes more sense because he was an actual winger, that was able to play in other roles at a high level.
He should have been sacked on the spot for mentioning the name Gareth Southgate
Top four was still in reach when he took over. There's no way INEOS were ever planning on writing off the season, I've only ever heard that phrase being used on here. Amorim instantly gave them the impression that we'd struggle/suffer while he drills a new system into the players, but that doesn't mean that absolutely all expectations and standards fall off a cliff in terms of results and performances.
While also been not a milion miles off Arteta and Klopp
With Mazraoui at the club, I think we need like 5 other CB's which we would normally have as well.
Think under EtH we had Varane, Lindelof, Maguire, Evans, Martinez and Shaw/Kambwala.
Now under Amorim for next season; Yoro, De Ligt, Maguire, Martinez, and Shaw/Heaven. We might add one more CB, but I doubt it with Mazraoui also playing as RCB.
Think we will consider Bruno, Garnacho, Mount, Amad as enough options for the numbers 10. He will likely also play some wingers there.
Where does this idea comes from? It has been mentioned on more than one occasion that he never mentioned Southgate, it's the press that linked them due to their shared past.
To be fair Amorim's golden era of success came in that week where he stopped picking the names out of a hat, but hadn't yet been forced to use the bench as a crèche. Those heady days of 3 wins on the bounce will be hard to return to while practically half the subs we're naming started the season in Arsenal's youth setup.
And while what we've done with the squad is a big part of that, we had nine players out injured against Fulham in the cup versus three out when we beat them in the league. I think it's fair to say it's had an impact - January was actually looking alright before it all got fecked.
We scored 12 goals that month, with 8 coming from Amad, Mainoo, and Licha, plus a pair of Bruno penalties. The only fit open-play January goalscorer currently available in the squad is Diogo Dalot. Well, technically Ugarte (scored that one against us) too.
The only one of that list who is in a worse position than when they came in is Amorim. Fewer games than all of them and already more losses than all bar Klopp.
We're miles off mate when you factor manager and team performance. Klopp and Arteta were able to stablize results, the former even got his ideas into a team that wasn't his pretty quickly. Amorim hasn't.
Exactly this, the players needed are not unicorns who become useless in other formations. Every role is transferrable into more standard formations, this issue does not affect any of the other sides that play 3 at the back. There are teams in the PL who use this formation and transitioned into it without having to buy special players that can only play in one place.
Part of our problem is quality of player, durability and athleticism, up top our problem is just general quality and some of the problem is also our implementation of the style - Amorim seems to be struggling to implement a decent cohesion and style of play.
Keeping Ten Hag in the summer and persisting with Hojlund were two huge costly mistakes, two very obvious costly mistakes too.
I'm not saying the injuries have had an impact the last few weeks. I'm simply pointing out that between November and January we had a relatively fit squad.
The pro’s of Harry are only in a back 3 system because he’s good on the ball, a serious goal threat and in the air he’s elite, plus he has that diagonal switch pass, if you have real pace on the wide CB’s you can cover his weaknesses and you get the guy that made two team of the tournaments internationally, Yoro and A Heaven might be the solution, However MDL seriously impressed me in the last game at RCB which is rapidly becoming his best position.
He seems to be positional sound and could easily get Harry to push up 20 yards. Both of them right now are a serious goal threat from set pieces.
I think we need to replace Maguire and/or Lindelof.
With Mazraoui, Martinez, Yoro and Deligt with maybe Maguire or 2 new signings/youth players. We should be alright.
But as a club prone to defensive injury crises we'll need better luck in future with 3 at the back.
No but I expect a coach that manages Man United not to come out with yet another statement saying ; “The Europa cup doesn’t matter, just like he says the same about the FA Cup!”
He’s just digging his own grave, I expect nothing but 1 point per game in the PL all the way to early next season when SJR inevitably gives him the boot and fans like you do a full 180 when you realise Ineos are seriously just as bad as the Glazers, and they are making multiple mistake after mistake as co owners of the club.
Why doesn’t Amorim just zip it, fans don’t want to hear we have no chance in the Europa League and his delusional BS about wining the PL, hey Ruben win back to back matches in the EPL first because all the previous coaches since Fergie at least managed to do just that!
Ps I said without European Football next season he would be lucky to get £50m but he needs £250-300m to get his imprint on a team which is why Liverpool said no!
Personally going forward I think Ruben and the club should not go into another season considering Mount an option.
My point is SJR likes to fire Coaches and DOF, so if RA doesn’t improve the form on the pitch he’ll get sacked whether this season or early next.
This is based on nothing but faith. Faith and Hope will not get Amorim or the team higher up the table. He needs to sort this shit out.
Why do posters like this always ignore the context around these 8th place finishes? Both managers came into teams that were underperforming and in bad form, they immediately put their stamp on them by getting them to play their style of football relatively quickly. However, because the teams were made up of players that were mostly not a good fit or good enough, they had inconsistent form. But at least with Klopp in that first half a season, you could see improvement. Arteta won a trophy in his first season, and although his second was not good enough position wise, clearly something was being done that the club could see they were on the right path. This is the polar opposite of Amorim, where he took a team that was in bad form but not in the worst place positionally, and then made it perform worse. We went from mid table to lower table within four months, how is this in anyway the same?
He’s the only coach there with a 50% loss rate and that’s what he has to improve on yes we need to back him, however he needs to start backing himself.
You only lose 50% of your PL games when your team is waiting to be defeated and his 5221 system is so easy to beat every week.
So start picking attacking Wing backs, Dalot is tired, Mazraoui is not an offensive wing back!
All Ruben has to do is give some of the youth a chance like ; Harry Amass, Mantato, Musa , Scalion, just their youthful energy and enthusiasm could help the team, even if only from the bench.
Don’t pick 7 subs with 2 reserve Goalkeepers, that’s incredibly negative and indefensible? I genuinely think all the fanbase would rally round him if he starts giving more of the youth a chance especially in wing back and number 10 positions.
Surely there's players in the under-21s apart from Collyer that can come in? It feels like all we are doing are taking literal children from the under 18s and throwing them into men's football.
Collyer is a part of the first team now, he’s been in and around the first team since last season (if I remember correctly) - He’s no longer an U21 player
In your opinion, why did we sack ETH?
If it's because we were playing badly, have we started playing well thereafter?
Again, what is the main reason of manager change? Amorim was given 2 and half year contract. That's not a big project timeline.
So what's this project that Amorim needs to build that Ineos wants it done in 2 years?
Probably, it's only in fans mind that we are with Amorim for a longterm project. In Ineos mind they need results, and it's supported by their contract offer to Amorim.
So Ineos did a change of manager, results have plummeted since, by start of next season Amorim contract will be 1 year down remaining with 18 months tops.
So it does seem bringing in Amorim is proving to be a very very costly mistake in comparison to keeping ETH.
I agree but if you replace them with a LB/LCB or RB/RCB then you have no issue when it comes to moving to a back 4. If anything assuming that Dorgu is a long term option as left back, a defensive RB/RCB makes a lot of sense. Teams often only use one truly attacking fullback and use a back three in transition. That's why I defended the idea of signing Pavard, squad flexibility is extremely valuable and one of the issue that we have today is that we lack that flexibility, many of our players are square pegs for round holes the minute we alter their roles a tiny bit and I don't want to add any specialist to this lot.
He is way too transparent. You're at Manchester United and it's the last Cup you're in, and your only ticket for the Champions League which will boost the plans to build for the long term. Don't discount the importance of it for fecksake
Every manager comes here and lowers the expectations at some point. This one has to be the quickest since Moyes said we need to aspire to be like City.
Ok this was compounded by the fact the under 18/19 squad had an Fa Youth Cup 1/4 final which they won against Arsenal, I went to the game and we won that in a very even game in Extra time by playing attacking football.
I keep calling for at least 2 or 3 to be added to the squad but to be fair to Ruben, none of those kids could have played late Friday night after 120 mins and then play again on Sunday.
Going forward he must stand by his convictions, I go to old Trafford a lot and the fans are turning because he’s playing 7 defensive players, that’s why he has a 50% loss rate!
RA never played this way at Sporting which means, he has already sacrificed some of his principles. Now we’ve made a mistake with Chido in EL we must try and use the 9 man bench with young players that could help.
His biggest issue right now is attacking wing back, creativity in the 10’s and finishing the chances.
I’d like to see us hopefully getting Bayinder back in a couple of weeks and try and pick this as our strongest 11 right now, we can’t rely on Mount or Shaw, both need to be sold in the summer.
Best team in EPL
A Bayinder - GK
MDL, Harry, L Yoro - Back 3
Dalot Ugarte, Bruno, Dorgu - Midfield 4
Zirkzee, Garnaucho - 10’s
Chido - Striker
Bench - Onana, N Mazraoui, A Heaven,
B Mantato , T Collyer, R Hojlund, C Eriksen, V Musa, J Fletcher
At least with Mantato and Musa we would have real pace from the bench, there is an arguments for Jack Moorehouse, S Kone, Gabrielle Biancheri, James Scanlon, Jayden kamason and maybe Ibragimov to be given some minutes to see how they handle first team football.
Tonight the team to select would be the same but with Bayinder swapped for Onana and Chido for Rasmus which would give us a chance to add 1 more youngster and Lindelof to the bench.
If and it’s a huge ‘if’ we could get through Sociedad then maybe with Collyer, Mount, Bayinder and Kobie returning we might be able to salvage our season, but Ruben must be far more adventurous in his team selection and tactics.
I’m usually not one for having the proverbial old guard around - and I get that he might have good intentions - but I feel this is one of them instances where having someone who’s being here/done it before would be helpful just to help him navigate the media aspect of things. Like I get it, transparency is endearing and might get people on board - but it’s such a double edged sword. I absolutely do not want to hear the Manchester United manager saying that.
I also felt the same with them “we’re going to suffer” quotes. I get it, he was buying himself time, but still
Yeah this is my issue too. It's good to hear at first but you have to balance it. It's also appearing as some sort of excuse at this stage for chronically bad performances, or at least that's how it comes across.
Saying what he did about Europa league feels like getting an excuse in just in case we get knocked out.
Seems to be already waving the white flag in terms of progressing in the Europa … at least give the fans something more immediate to hold on to after the absolute clown show this has been. Geez
Does too many of this sit in interviews for a man who has lost 8 to 9 Premier league games. Lowering expectations might suit him but it's another crank in the gear towards his expulsion from Manchester United. Talks a big game but he looks overwhelmed and lost.
At Manchester United, you either confront the beast or let it devour you. There is no middle ground.
A lot of those so called under 18’s are 19 and turning 20 this year or 18 and turning 19, honestly only Jack Moorehouse, maybe Ogunneye but the best ones like Ethan Williams and Ethan Wheatley have gone out on loan!
It's pathetic.
For someone who was very fond of his interviews/pressers when he came in, I now hope he just shuts up. The "I don't know. If I knew, I would change it" was already very frustrating. This is taking it to another level.
He came from them though, all the other youth players have been below the age of 18.
I think he’s going to get himself sacked very shortly if he doesn’t wind it in with the comments, he’s just far too negative and it’s now being noticed by the hierarchy, he’s said the same thing about the FA Cup then lost the game, he’s had 25 games, fans want to see something to get excited about it.
Green light to a bunch of players that down tools….to down tools. Hardly motivating. How about telling them to go balls out for this comp ahead of the PL which is effectively dead rubber games now.
He’s turned into such a negative manager. Any charisma he had when he arrived has been evaporated and he’s just down all the time. I think he knows the rebuild is not going to go as he thought and his system won’t get the support it needs. He’s toast.
Would love to know what these bigger things are compared to potential champions league football and over 100m pounds in revenue?
Can we put the whole downing tools thing to rest? They never did with ETH.