Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

We dug our own grave with ridiculous transfers. Ridiculous to expect a CL qualification to fix our budget.
We have now 2 seperate owners, give me a break.

If we get rid of Rashy, Shaw, Mount, Casemiro, Linde, Evans, expensive mistakes like Sancho, Antony.. Our financial situation will improve dramatically.

And we have to be very careful who we buy this time.
Of the names you listed, most will run down their contracts. 2 years before we are rid of overpaid and underperforming players.
Antony will be loaned again and Rashford will be back on our bench. No one is touching Mount, Shaw or Casemiro with a barge pole.
 
He said trophies are for egos. Even though the league is a trophy, just not a cup competition.

He didn't just say that, that part got him some criticism which makes sense but it wasn't the point that he was making and his point was correct. And it was in the context of what a manager should be judged against.

"In the league position you see if there’s any progress for me, that’s always the bread and butter of the season that you see how capable you are of coping of ups and downs any cup competition can give you a trophy but sometimes it’s more of an ego thing from other managers and clubs to finally win something.

"But we need to see progress and if we perform well enough the trophies will end up at the club again. It’s not like a trophy will say that we’re back, no.
 
He didn't just say that, that part got him some criticism which makes sense but it wasn't the point that he was making and his point was correct.
I suppose he's right, I mean ETH and Mourinho won cups but did not progress us in the slightest. Though Ole in the end didn't back this talk up either.
 
Every manager comes here and lowers the expectations at some point. This one has to be the quickest since Moyes said we need to aspire to be like City.
Somethings sound better in the head and should be left unsaid. Either say nothing, or say we will try our best but its a tough competition, etc. Trying to portray the team’s incompetence as a choice for the larger good, is tragic.
 
Winning the Europa League guarantees champions league football and more money. Which means access to a better transfer budget and players more willing to come here. How does that not help these so-called bigger things and long term planning?

A season without European football will compound the already disastrous financial position we are in. Why are fans such as yourself so ignorant of the situation? The further from top 4 we finish the less money we get, the less sponsorships, in fact there are clauses that negatively impact us with Adidas if we don't get champions league football.

This attitude makes no sense. We will be even worse without European football.

He obviously knows this.. I imagine he's trying to relieve the pressure from our snowflakes
 
The goal is to win the Premier League. So I know that we are losing games and losing trophies during this season, but the goal is to win the Premier League again,”

That is what Amorim said, Van Gaal won the Fa cup was sacked ETH won the FA cup should of been sacked, the PL is where managers are judged.

Fans like You - very condescending attitude....

INEOS have made mistakes, I expect there to be more mistakes, everyone makes mistakes but I have faith they will get it right, otherwise I would end up a hyperbolic Fan like you.....

Did INEOS put us in debt?
Have the taken dividends out of the club?
Have they put in more money than the Glazers?

I am not condoning there actions, but your constant exaggerations and essays with no substance or facts are draining, you talk as if you are from the future who knows all, no one truly knows what is going to happen and no matter how mant times you condescend other fans isn't going to change that.

I was on the protest at the weekend, shows my thoughts towards them, but they are nothing compared with those parasites.

If he was given 50m he could make 5 x 50m signings with 10m on amortization.
My condescending attitude is only directed towards INEOS, I’ve been consistent day one saying at best they know how to manage a Yo Yo club like Nice and fans should only expect similar with them to the Glazers
, so far all of thoughts have been completely vindicated with their complete incompetence of running the club, the club had never been lower than 8th since the PL started and in their first season they will be pick to finish 14th and maybe having sacked two coaches and one DOF and as for our coach I keep saying Sack him or Back him but please someone in authority just put a gagging order on him talking about how bad the club is, the worst in history, how is 63 year old GK would be a better option than Marcus Rashford from the bench and how wining cup has no relevance to his job and the ultimate aim of wining the PL title?

If being hyperbolic is wanting your coach to not put 7 players on the bench of which two were goalkeepers and wanting him to show more ambition in the way he sets up his team then I can assure having been to old Trafford at the weekend, I’d say 65% of the fan base are now hyperbolic.

If he was given 50m he could make 5 x 50m means he could buy with £10m through amortisation?

Jesus you can’t make it up to buy £250m players the club would need to pay £30-35m in Agent fees alone and how are we going to continue to do transfers on yearly instalments when we already owe over £400m in transfer debt.

The club would need a minimum of £150-160m to facilitate a £250m transfer spend and if they are buying players out of a contract, that transfer fee of £50m needs to be paid upfront in one instalment!

Add that to the £60/65m we will lose in tv and sponsorship revenue and the £30-40m of interest charges the club pays every year before they even turn on the lights at old Trafford!
 
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Come on, everyone and their granny knows that the Europa League is absolutely vital this season of all seasons. Let's not start moving the goalposts. Not only from a financial aspect, but if we go crashing out against Sociedad, we'll only have the league in which we've only become relatively safe from a relegation battle. We are hanging on by a shoe string now under this manager.

If anything it's a condescending attitude to play down the importance of winning this cup.
The extra revenue would be a huge help for Amorim's budget and the clubs finances.

I didn't move any goalposts you just made that up, I stated that those cups were not good enough to keep those managers.

This team is not going to win the EL.

Is Hojlund suddenly going to be in the right place and develop a 1st touch?
Is Garnacho going to score before he gets to 60 shots?
Is Zirkzee going to take the occasional chance he gets?

Relatively safe from relegation :lol:

Ipswich are on 17 points from 27 games.

You are expecting them to get exactly the same points total from 11 games, to overtake us with us picking up 0 points till the end of the season.

The context was regarding the fact that success in these trophies, hasn't lead to long term success, as they have papered over the cracks.

I do not know if Amorim, is the guy as some people say, but with the state of this squad and the removal of the depth to get value in them, I will give him till Christmas next year, as the players we are looking at fit multiple systems.
 

I really don't like this. Maybe he's trying to relieve the pressure on the players but the fans don't want to hear it and the best bet to progress and win this competition is to get the fans at OT to believe when the second leg of each tie is at home.

A really shite United team beat Liverpool and City on the way to the FA cup last year. Find a way to win with what you have.
 
Well we don't know that actually. It could just as easily be Ratlciffe/Ineos were embarrassed that they so publicly backed Ten Hag only to have it inevitably blow up in their faces 3 months later. So they were desperate to get a big name in asap to save face.

And it has to be said if Amorim was the clubs long term choice and not just the best available in November when they eventually realized they had to sack ETH. Then they could have got him in Pre-season as he was available last summer when the club were interviewing potential successors to Ten Hag. But apparently Amorim wasn't even interviewed.

According to reports he wasn’t included in interviews because of his tactical system which didn’t fit with the players in the summer. Clearly the crazy decision to extend Eth and then to see the team continue to struggle meant they reconsidered this stance between the summer and Amorim’s appointment. Again, it’s just poor from United senior management. But when they made the call on Amorim they made the call to change the system too. They knew, he knew, most of us all knew what to expect. I think it just took INEOS longer than everyone else to realise the players were not up to scratch, hence they knew they had to go in another direction.

I get your point that he clearly wasn’t the long term plan back in the summer. The first 6 months of INEOS haven’t exactly been brilliant though, Eth extension being error number 1
 
Amorim's performance has no bearing on whether or not the decision to sack or keep ETH was costly.
Sadly, i dont agree with you on this. Look at it, with the eyes of the owners. Not as a fan. But as someone who put is own money in all this.
Amorim failure is tenfold. Paying his release clause, paying ETH termination dues, poor results plummeting the team to disastrous position ( read league finish prize money), not being in Europe ( all the matchday revenue because of less games, tv rights prize), see i havent even talked about buying players. As we would have bought players no matter who the manager is.

in short, if Amorim was performing then the Cost Benefit analysis would've been positive, now we are near the bad sunk cost territory.. If Amorim fails it would be a disaster the owner of the money.



Keeping ETH when we KNEW he was poor is definitely worse than hiring a manager who ends up performing poorly, because we KNEW that Ten Hag was poor. Keeping Ten Hag meant we had a whole summer basically wasted, waiting until his inevitable sacking, we clearly signed players based on his preferences too.
Nothing has Amorim done to suggest he will even topple ETH 3rd position finish, get into 2 FA Cup finals in 2 years.
This is what many people are mistaking, Amorim has achieved absolutely nothing, for us, is showing absolutely nothing to suggest otherwise.





Bringing in a new coach in summer ensures a fresh start and if that coach is poor, we can look at replacing them ahead of the new season like any other club would but at least we tried something different when we KNEW that the current guy was not working. Now we are in a limbo timing wise.
As the one paying money in all this, this is a disaster.
As a fan to you, it's just emotions. To Ineos its real money in millions at play.
Poor managerial appointment in cost, cost same as signing Dorgu ( release clause and termination dues) then the new managers sinks you further.




We also should have signed a a couple of proven quality forward players and sold Rashford and Antony in the summer. More is lost through indecision than the wrong decision, the wrong decision can be rectified if you act quickly but if you dither and then need to rectify your mistake but are indecisive all the time then the issues grow and grow. All of our summer antics have cost us a lot.
 
Dead man walking unfortunately

We are a shambles for sure but he still has a team that cost

50 Onana
60? Yoro
80 Maguire
30 Dorgu
20 Dalot
50 Bruno
40 Ugarte
Free Garnacho
69 Rasmus
40 Zirkzee

Like that's 10 times what Socidad have spent and pay in wages and probably the most in the whole competition proper. He's probably the highest paid manager in it too. Let's say we've been clueless and overpaid for Rasmus and Maguire. It's still the fecking England captain of the last 5 years and a player who hit 15 goals last season and who's goals have kept us in the competition.
I'm not freaking out on Amorim but as I said it feels like he's going to quit or get sacked at the end of the season and has totally no idea how to get the players up even for a one off cup game the only thing we've left to play for. Everyone is playing worse under him apart from Ugarte and Bruno. Shocking
 
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Perhaps but for Amorims system we'll probably need to have a few more centrebacks and no10s than we would normally if we were planning on using 433/4231.
I reckon we've had 6 CB's at the club for the last decade anyway.
 
Winning the Europa League guarantees champions league football and more money. Which means access to a better transfer budget and players more willing to come here. How does that not help these so-called bigger things and long term planning?

A season without European football will compound the already disastrous financial position we are in. Why are fans such as yourself so ignorant of the situation? The further from top 4 we finish the less money we get, the less sponsorships, in fact there are clauses that negatively impact us with Adidas if we don't get champions league football.

This attitude makes no sense. We will be even worse without European football.
Agree. It was fine to say that 8 years ago when we weren't in a perilous financial position and it wouldn't have been our 2nd year running of no CL for the first time. Now its an absolute disaster, it destroys our potential signings market and hurts us even more financially. I would lose every single league game and finish as low as possible (we're already too high up to get relegated) it meant we somehow fluke a Europa win.
 
Agree. It was fine to say that 8 years ago when we weren't in a perilous financial position and it wouldn't have been our 2nd year running of no CL for the first time. Now its an absolute disaster, it destroys our potential signings market and hurts us even more financially. I would lose every single league game and finish as low as possible (we're already too high up to get relegated) it meant we somehow fluke a Europa win.
I just hate this idea of writing off seasons as if that attitude has no repurcussions for the club? Two whole boards have written off the past two seasons. The last glazer appointed board and INEOS wrote off last season, now INEOS is writing off this season. It hurts the club financially and it lowers expectations.
 
In your opinion, just personal opinion...

Do you think 'the scale of the job' now can be done in 2 years? Even with hindsight.

By Ineos giving him 2&1/2 season contract, did they envisage a situation where we are now worse than we were 1 year ago, and needing more time and resources.

As Ineos does Amorim gets evaluated mid point of his contract or at what point?

Presently, as the situation is, what is the target for Amorim? To return us to top 6 , top 4 or what? And when does this KPI be assessed..

Also as Ineos, finishing position 15 or 5, the difference of 10 places has an implications of around 30m in prize money being in question. Then add missing European Competition all together adds another 20m lost in revenue. While being in Europa league guarantees some 17m in revenue.
So as Ineos, how much of a hit can you carry because of the coach not getting results.

Because we are getting more broke, because of Amorim poor results. So compound that with him needing more money to create his team, on a team he has made more broke..
It depends on how many players are moved in and out in the summer whether Amorim can turn it around in two season and what Ineos will accept. Top 4 is a long maybe, but top 6/7 could be achieved with enough new players in and if that’s acceptable in the short term, then he may get another short contract. Arteta and Klopp had a tipsy Turvey start in the premier, but they also had a pre season and their pick of players from the start, something Amorim hasn’t had.
 
Agree. It was fine to say that 8 years ago when we weren't in a perilous financial position and it wouldn't have been our 2nd year running of no CL for the first time. Now its an absolute disaster, it destroys our potential signings market and hurts us even more financially. I would lose every single league game and finish as low as possible (we're already too high up to get relegated) it meant we somehow fluke a Europa win.
The reality is Amorim even with his sporting Team didn’t have that great a track record in Europe and Man United have only won two European trophies in 25 years although we have been to 5 Finals, so maybe play on that a little more that United have one of the better European records of the teams left in the competitions and we expect to go deep in the competition.
 
Quick shower after Sundays unfortunate defeat before inhaling a baloon at Old Trafford car park on the way to pub.
Few quick shots with mates before grabing kebab and large chips on the way home.
FIFA all night before being kicked out of warm bed by an assistant coach. Very light and short Monday recovery session.
Harshly intense Tuesday training, on Wednesday a boring tacticall preparation watching some videos and even in need to get out and have a rondo before jetting off to Kazachstan for Thursday Europa League match.

Thats from Sancho´s book, no idea about other players.
:lol:
 
That's a terrifying take. Garnacho isn't that special, too many people look at his age instead of the games he has played, he has played over 180 games for us and doesn't look like he has progressed at all to be quite honest.

Amorim on the other hand has proved that if he is backed he can turn a club around.
Not that terrifying at all when you factor in Garnacho's age and ability to be one of the only players in our squad capable of getting shots away.

I don't understand why people get so attached to managers. He has been here a few months now and has made us worse. I don't trust him to sell our best academy players and replace them with players who are more comfortable in a formation which is currently as exciting as watching paint dry and, as others have previously pointed out, has had very little success historically in the Premier League by other managers.
 
For clarification - are you arguing that winning the Europa/CL qualification wouldn’t improve our financial situation?

You seem to be saying a lot of stuff that we all know - yes, we placed ourselves in this situation with poor deals - but how is that an argument against winning the Europa helping us?

I'm saying that if you tell our players to win Europa or die they'll happily die.
 
He’s right it was a superficial argument.

Because it wasn’t just Antony’s frailty that stopped him performing, it was also largely down to him being spineless and terrified of physical contact.

I don't really get this view because the one thing that Antony provided was physicality and defensive workrate. Where he struggled was maintaining width and providing verticality. It's not perfect here you have an indication of it:

https://fbref.com/en/players/99127249/scout/12192/Antony-Scouting-Report
 
Think if anything, Amorim was being kind. Antony wasn't built for the league from a mental, physical or capability perspective. If he finds his lane in Spain, great, good luck to him - but he was awful for us time and again.
Maybe Amorim should learn that some things are better left unsaid and we don't need verbal fights with player agents?
 
Anyone watching Antony in Spain?

Can you confirm if he has managed to cross the ball with his right foot? and use the right wing without having to cut back inside?
 

Jeez - we used to troll Arsenal and Liverpool for not taking their cups seriously and not trying to win it. How tables have turned .

The standards at this club are going down like anything .
 
Jeez - we used to troll Arsenal and Liverpool for not taking their cups seriously and not trying to win it. How tables have turned .

The standards at this club are going down like anything .
Nothing wrong with what he says there.
 
Not that terrifying at all when you factor in Garnacho's age and ability to be one of the only players in our squad capable of getting shots away.

I don't understand why people get so attached to managers. He has been here a few months now and has made us worse. I don't trust him to sell our best academy players and replace them with players who are more comfortable in a formation which is currently as exciting as watching paint dry and, as others have previously pointed out, has had very little success historically in the Premier League by other managers.

I'm not "Attached" to the manager but I don't value shots without goals, he devalues our play regularly and I don't buy into the "Age" thing, I go by experience and he may be young but he's quite experienced in the mens game and he frustrates me every time with his poor decision making.
 
Think if anything, Amorim was being kind. Antony wasn't built for the league from a mental, physical or capability perspective. If he finds his lane in Spain, great, good luck to him - but he was awful for us time and again.
He was completely wrong about the physical point. Antonys issues were not becsuse he lacked physically. He was actually good in this department.

In saying what he did he just gave a disservice to him, uncalled for.
 
I'm not "Attached" to the manager but I don't value shots without goals, he devalues our play regularly and I don't buy into the "Age" thing, I go by experience and he may be young but he's quite experienced in the mens game and he frustrates me every time with his poor decision making.
Number of appearances doesn't make the player's age irrelevant. Garnacho may be frustrating to watch at times but most 20 year old forwards aren't clinical with their end product. I'd rather see him to return to being a winger in a 4-3-3 than sit through several more months of Amorim's dull football with either Garnacho or someone else in the L10 position.
 
Nothing wrong with what he says there.
Sorry , you can keep saying that to yourself. This is probably one of our most critical moments in the last 10 years. We are severely cash strapped and if we can CL via Europa, it would do wonders for our transfer window.

Its still a trophy, ffs.
 
Anyone watching Antony in Spain?

Can you confirm if he has managed to cross the ball with his right foot? and use the right wing without having to cut back inside?
Yes I have …and no he hasn’t! He still cuts back inside but where he’d always go for the left footed curled shot. He’s started to thread through balls with his left which I don’t remember him doing much of when playing with us.

I think he’s undoubtedly a limited player in terms of his inability to use his right. But I’m one of the few that thought he looked alright (nowhere near 80+m we paid) until his confidence fell off a cliff.

I always liked his work rate and effort and am glad to see he’s regaining his confidence at Betis.
 
I don’t think there's any such thing as 343 players. Or 433 players. Or 442 players.

Wingbacks are just wingers with a good attitude to defensive work and the physical capability to carry it out.

There'll be no issue in switching Amorims signings to a new formation. Assuming they've got the base quality we need in general.
Yep. A Ferrari is just a Ford with a good attitude.
 
Sorry , you can keep saying that to yourself. This is probably one of our most critical moments in the last 10 years. We are severely cash strapped and if we can CL via Europa, it would do wonders for our transfer window.

Its still a trophy, ffs.
He’s not saying we won’t try to win it. But as proven by ETH last season, a trophy can paper over the cracks. Amorim is entirely correct in saying we should stay focused on the day-to-day progress. The fact that there is zero day-to-day progress, however, is damning on him.
 
He’s not saying we won’t try to win it. But as proven by ETH last season, a trophy can paper over the cracks. Amorim is entirely correct in saying we should stay focused on the day-to-day progress. The fact that there is zero day-to-day progress, however, is damning on him.
He's basically saying it's not important and not worth it due to these "bigger things." Despite the fact that winning it can actually help FILL those cracks that are in the team and the club. It's not the league cup or FA Cup.
 
Nothing wrong with what he says there.

Indeed, some of our 'fans' just can't face a modicum of reality. Also it's good expectation management from Amorim, considering the state of the team right now. But obviously going to be twisted by the media and these 'fans' as another way to attack the manager.
 
Indeed, some of our 'fans' just can't face a modicum of reality. Also it's good expectation management from Amorim, considering the state of the team right now. But obviously going to be twisted by the media and these 'fans' as another way to attack the manager.
What's the actual reality then?

Good expectation management? ETH rightly got slated for lowering standards and expectations, yet Amorim does it and it's OK? It's not like we're playing Real Madrid in the CL Round of 16, it's Real Sociadad who are 9th in La Liga. I'd back most of the teams around and above us to smash Sociadad. Ole also got rightly slated for saying trophies are for egos.

The media and the fans have twisted nothing because with Amorim there is nothing that needs to be twisted. He's too honest and open for his own good.
 
He’s not saying we won’t try to win it. But as proven by ETH last season, a trophy can paper over the cracks. Amorim is entirely correct in saying we should stay focused on the day-to-day progress. The fact that there is zero day-to-day progress, however, is damning on him.
I dont think he needs to water down the importance of a major trophy to make that point though. It's a good way to demotivate a squad that much more.