Neither is "I don’t know if I’m going to be here, but we are going to return and we are going to win in the future".
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
-
Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
I guess it comes down to how much do you think a manager can do. I've never bought into the idea they're these puppet masters that can instantly improve players. A players ability is what it is.
But I'd argue it is mainly about the strikers. If Hojlund, Garnacho and Zirkzee were scoring goals the whole situation would feel different. The midfielders, defenders and Amorim would all be thought of differently.
Problem is because the forwards aren't performing everything about the team and management is getting slated. Unfairly in my opinion.
Are you talking about ETH or about Amorim?
Coming from someone who fully believes in his ability, he isn't being deadly serious here.
What Amorim knows is not working in EPL.
He is surprised small time coaches can outsmart him.
He doesn't know what to do to correct the poor results. He said that himself
We're in the period of Hope n Pray, hoping something will sticks.
The biggest cliche we have read and heard 121313 times already. I'm not an "Amorim out" guy but at least some progress should be visible. But there's none, in fact the team is worse than ever and none of the players showed some progress under the portuguese. To be fair my expectations weren't high as i didn't expect too much from a manager who's only accolade is the portuguese title with the most expensive portuguese squad in a liga where Sporting compete only against Porto and Benfica, and 14 teams have a squad value less than 50 million but i certainly expected more. What's more worrying is, without a serious overhaul next season will be a complete disaster with Amorim.
I don't believe he is getting outsmarted. He knows exactly how he wants us to play. It's a good system. The issue is that he has a bunch of players who aren't ideal fits for the way he wants us to play.
Actually, regardless of 4-2-3-1 or 3-4-2-1 or whatever system, the players are lacking in quality. Nobody can tell me that this current squad are just a wrong fit for Ruben Amorim's system, they look like they lack basic technique and understanding of the game.
United need to move out about a dozen players asap, with six new starters and six of the young and as yet, untarnished brigade to fill the gaps. And that is just for starters. Ruben Amorim could be the coach to right the ship but we will not know unless he is given time - primarily, to overhaul the squad.
Well that's on Berrada and was probably a bluff.
Yeah, no denying that we lack quality in general. Though the issue is exacerbated by how unsuited many of the players are to how we want to play.
The thing is, probably how he wants us to play is not that good way of playing in EPL.
People need to accept this might be true.
Again, last season under ETH we criticised him for 8th finish, not the players.
When we won at Etihad and drew at Anfield we gave Amorim his flowers, nobody said we have a elite team. We all said Amorim is turning the tide.
Now we are playing badly it's players fault.
Can't be when we play well it's coaching but when we play poorly it's players issues.
I don’t understand why this is so hard to do for so many.
Comes across as infantile or resentful.
Often justified as ‘passion’ or ‘caring’ but there quickly comes a point where it’s counterproductive
Agree with this 100%
I was watching the Bayern Leverkuesen match last night. In the dug out there is the much sought after Xabi Alonso vs Vincent Kompany who was Bayerns 4th or 5th choice last summer. VIP apparance from Germany head coach Julialn Nagglesman. All three can be considered to be young progressive coaches.
Putting ckub rivalry aside and assume.we got Kompany or Alonso to replace ETH , I would bet we would be in a similar mess and situation. The reason they are.thriving is because they have a proper.footballing structure, modern data analyitcs and scouting. Savvy operstors in recruitment. We are llght years behind.
As fans we are emotionally invested and I get the frustration 'he will die on his sword becuase his tactics are inflexible' or 'the players are lazy and downed tools'
Do the conditions currently exist for any manager to thrive at this club.
I can already hear the Amorim out brigade banging their keys and frothing at the mouth 'what so we cant criticise him' Nobody at the club is beyond taking responsibility but I believe hes the least of our problems
Define thrive? If you mean challenge for the league, of course not, if you mean to be operating at above near relegation form, then 100%.
That's been the case for the past three managers (you can also count Mourinho in that, and Ole after he was sacked). They weaponise fan frustration against the team when their own failures are exposed.
This makes sense.
However, the manager presumably agreed to loan out two attacking players and not bring in anyone to replace them and compete with two that are clearly under performing/low on confidence aswell.
Instead, choosing to spend what money we had to bring in a left wing back.
Now, clearly there's an argument it was the correct decision to loan out Antony and Rashford. However, given that one of them in Antony was still seen as good enough (at whatever low bar that is) to be a sub for some games in January, it all makes slightly less sense.
Agreed. We need to look at lots of other teams where manager are improving them and playing different systems in the process. Palace often go 3 at the back, Potter brings a lot of tactical flexibility to West Ham, Moyes have got a limited Everton team doing much better. A top manager mixes pragmatism, tactical smarts and not just system inflexibility. Amorim has inherited the worst United squad in modern times for sure, but even RVN had them looking a more coherent team. if he needs a load more players for his system to work, whats the point of persevering with it with a load of players who apparently cant make it work? I have been critical of 3 at the back buts its coming back in vogue to some degree, but lesser teams are making it work. there is a question whether its better suited to the more defensively orientated bottom half teams.
You're having a laugh right?
The money from winning the Europa and what we would then get from participating in the CL next season would go a long way to redressing some of our short term financial issues and allow for better squad planning. Could be argued there is literally nothing more important than winning the Europa this season for that alone.
If it pays off in the summer, as in they're easier to sell because we loaned them out, who could argue?
Problem is we're all as fans entrenched in the here and now. The club are looking 6 months down the line.
You were on this forum right last season? You didn't see any criticism of the players for how we performed? How?
They got 99 percent of the blame.
There were people desperate to defend Ten Hag who blamed the players whenever we lost and praised the manager whenever we won.
This is exactly it, fans believing and seeing only what they want to believe and see because we're desperate for him to succeed.
Sure but to say the players didn't get criticised. That's just a fiction.
I just wish this cult of personality nonsense would just end already. It's took a slight dent with ETH but any smooth talker can seemingly get some to immediately fall for it again.
This is some grade A bullsht. He must play the same system because if he doesn't then he will have to start again next year but at the same time he cant play his system because he doesn't have the players. Which is it? You cant have both. Is he training 4/5 players in the system so that in the next 2/3/4/5 seasons when he finally gets his players, then the players this season will teach them what to do? So we sacrifice everything even the basics like playing decent football and come 15th so a few can know what to next year? If he doesnt have the players then whats the point? And if it takes half a year to teach a few of them then how long to train new players? I was on board for sticking to a tactical structure but you have to make it work to some degree. To any degree. Yes it wont be perfect until you get the right players but you cant just give up everything and wait until its all perfect.
But when David Moyes can come in mid season and get Dyche's team to play the way he wants without his players (unless you count Pickford or Coleman?) within a week or two, why does every manager we get in need three years?
Me too. None of us actually want to start all over again with another coach, it's becoming as equally tiresome as it did seeing Rashford stroll about the pitch, feel's like groundhog day. However we mustn't be blinded by desperation, because if this time next season we're in a situation where we've written off yet another because we spent another fortune on a manager with imposter syndrome, we're even more screwed then we are now.
This also needs to end. This is football, 99% of clubs will go through many managers in three or four year cycles. Hell even shorter. It's pointless waiting for a Simeone or Fergie, they are not the norm. But that aside, yes, we need to treat managers with the same scepticism as the players. The club is the club and no one is bigger than it, not even the head coach.
The last two posts summarise the hysterical nature of this thread right now. Two wild claims that no one has made especially not the manager or club.
No one has ever said it'll take 3 seasons to show progress or worse the one above says 5 years. You all get angry at your own made up bullshit
No one has ever said it'll take 3 seasons to show progress or worse the one above says 5 years. You all get angry at your own made up bullshit
Having watched the champions league game last night, not one of our players would get anywhere near PSG’s team, nor Liverpools. Thats not on the manager, its on years of terrible recruitment.
That's literally what is constantly used, time. Time, money and players. It's got take a long time, months, maybe years and we have to replace the entire team. if you deny people saying that you're disengenuous.The last two posts summarise the hysterical nature of this thread right now. Two wild claims that no one has made especially not the manager or club.
No one has ever said it'll take 3 seasons to show progress or worse the one above says 5 years. You all get angry at your own made up bullshit
Other clubs can do so because they have other elements of continuity. We may have since INEOS but we can't know at this point and firing the DOF probably isn't the greatest sign. You are all right, blind faith is not what we should go for but we also shouldn't fuel the discussions around the current manager and when he is going to fly. It isn't helping the situation. Nobody here wants the club to give Amorim a blanco cheque to do whatever it takes to make his system work. And right now, there are no indicators, that we will do so. On the contrary, when you looked at the Quenda thread, there are more than enough fans in there who want him even though his case should definitely ring the alarm bells if this is what you guys are worried about (I am too, btw).
The dominant narrative last season was that Ten Hag was to blame, this season it is that the players aren‘t good enough.
The big difference between Ten Hag last season and Amorim this season, was that Ten Hag was able to win games despite a crippling injury crisis.
The squad is easily good enough for 4th-8th place and both managers this season have underperformed.
It will take a few more years to undo the transfer mistakes from the past, but the goal should be to have us able challenge for the title, not for a place in the top 8.
It is truly amazing how the goalposts have shifted between this season and last season. In my opinion, the squad is stronger.
The big difference between Ten Hag last season and Amorim this season, was that Ten Hag was able to win games despite a crippling injury crisis.
The squad is easily good enough for 4th-8th place and both managers this season have underperformed.
It will take a few more years to undo the transfer mistakes from the past, but the goal should be to have us able challenge for the title, not for a place in the top 8.
It is truly amazing how the goalposts have shifted between this season and last season. In my opinion, the squad is stronger.
But this is the problem with knee jerking to every short term uptick or downtick in form. Trying to draw some large meaning from just a few games.
Everton have had a few decent results. It's football, it happens. But that must mean Amorim isn't doing his job properly? There's no logic there.
One issue is whether or not a squad is underperforming or if there are deeper problems, for instance West Ham, Southampton and Leicester have not really seen much if any bounce probably because there is an underlying lack of quality within the squad
Arguably Everton had under used potential in their squad and Dyche was playing extremely negative football
With Utd I think there is an underlying lack of quality in the final 3rd and physicality throughout the team, that is not going to change with any manager, where I would be slightly critical is the under use of youth players instead of players like Casemiro, Eriksen and Lindelof, or even players like Hojlund and Dalot experiencing poor form.
And none of these teams hired particularly good head coaches.
So how comes we can achieve a very good performance at Anfield with this same squad and players. We know and accept Anfield is the ultimate test for any United team.
How comes we win at Etihad for the first time since Ole reign using this same squad which has no quality? Explain this please...
Was it players in all other games were we played poorly and Amorim brilliance at Anfield & Etihad? Which is which?
Go read last season‘s threads. It‘s funny you don‘t think so.