Except here, all of them could've easily been goals. When you hit the bar and have shots cleared off the line, those can objectively be called legit chances. Had both gone in, we'd be signing an entirely different tune. Happiness is a matter of inches.
That simply isn't true though, the logic that hitting the bar automatically makes the attempt a legit chance just doesn't hold up to any scrutiny.
Statistically we had 2 big chances, both of which fell to Maguire in added time. Better than Forest, but not demonstrating much creativity.
Forest are still where they are in the league though - 3rd. While Bilbao are 4th and lyon 7th or whatever. This in a more competitive league. Yes we may not see as much of the ball against other sides but that doesn't automatically make other sides tougher to play.Forest are a completely different side to Lyon and Bilbao. Don’t think tonight has any bearing or is pointed towards anything that’ll happen in Europa.
I can tell you now we won’t be controlling games against Lyon and Bilbao (if we get through) as they are a lot more possession based.
People getting carried away tonight a bit ….over a defeat. To a team who treat the ball like a hot potatoe and have a defensive line deeper than Gervinhos hairline and who played 120 mins Saturday evening.
Great answer
The absolutely massive difference is that LVG actually had some decent attacking players in his Utd squads.
Rooney, Van Persie, Welbeck, Chicarito, Falcao, Di Maria, Martial, Depay.
If we’d have had just one or two players like that today we probably would have scored a goal or two.
Which is still quite a bit better than what we have now, no?That's one of the worst pieces of revisionism I've seen. Falcao scored about 5 goals for us and Chelsea combined. Welbeck and Chicarito were sold and never played. Di Maria packed it because he got burgled. RVP ended up in Turkey soon after.
Our front line for LVG 2nd season was at the end 19yo Martial, 18 yo Rashford, Mata and Lingard.
Our attackers get plenty of chances and plenty of the ball. Garnacho just is a very wasteful player and Amad is injured at the moment. But you can’t say he didn’t get plenty of chances before he got injured.
We don’t need world class wingbacks, we just need someone on the right who has an actual final delivery unlike Dalot, and we just have to give our 20 year old newbie on the left a little time. As I said, he was brilliant the last game and even tonight almost had a game winning assist.
Just as importantly, numerically, you start with more defensive players than you do attacking players. That’s already setting you up on the back foot.And it means we create more chances for our wingbacks than our attackers because the wingbacks are the overloads.
Its flawed, and unless the wingbacks are absolutely worldclass players in both attack and defence (they don't exist) than it's a system that will continue to fail in the premier league.
You just end up with jack of all trade players getting into good attacking positions but not being actually good enough to do anything about it, while you genuine attacking talents are marked out of the game.
Hitting the bar is a pretty good chance at scoring a goal. Its literally inches away, so its obviously a good chance. As for your second sentence, that may be your opinion, but it has nothing to do with statistics. I agree that Maguire had two good chances, but so did Mount in addition to those in the first half.
Which is still quite a bit better than what we have now, no?
Great answer
You could argue that he's developed very well away from United though couldn't you? So what is not working at United that doesn't allow a player like Elanga to develop. Frankly, I saw as much from him as I ever have done from Garnacho, yet we keep the latter and sell the former. Not sure this belongs in a thread about Amorim though.Excellent answer. Nobody would of ever expecting Elanga to score that type of goal tonight but it happened against his old club. Did he do that stuff at United? No he didn't.
You could argue that he's developed very well away from United though couldn't you? So what is not working at United that doesn't allow a player like Elanga to develop. Frankly, I saw as much from him as I ever have done from Garnacho, yet we keep the latter and sell the former. Not sure this belongs in a thread about Amorim though.
Totally agree mate. I’m starting to finally see what RA wants from this side and how we play. Players look assured of what’s needed of them - just a bit of quality in the execution is lacking.Ignore the bollocks posted on here tonight, we played well and everybody, bar some of our own fans that just enjoy shitting on their own team even when it’s not deserved, could see it. Tonight’s performance actually gave me more belief that we could win the EL as we played football at a higher level tonight, and I think we’d control games against most of the teams left in the competition. Some nice one touch football, some great link up play to beat the press and some solid individual performances in the build up. We forced turnovers well, which we’ve been getting better at recently and we had a better shape to us which also led to some promising situations.
Once again we were let down by some individual performances though and we’re not good enough to carry players, especially whether Bruno was one player having an off day. It was good to see Mount back in contention and other players returning, hopefully we can create competition for places and even rest players as needed, which might take us up another level also.
My point clumsily made while putting my teething son back to bed last night is this, the higher the xG the better chances and shots you take, our xG last night off of 20+ shots means the chances/shots we took were of low quality otherwise the xG would be higher which was my original point we didn't create good chances or opportunities so pointing to having 20+ shots kind of pointless when none of them looked like being a goal save for the end when we shoved Maguire up front
Totally agree mate. I’m starting to finally see what RA wants from this side and how we play. Players look assured of what’s needed of them - just a bit of quality in the execution is lacking.
Not sure if I agree with winning the EL though as I don’t see us scoring enough goals. We are so short of quality up front.
We looked more comfortable on the ball and at times progressed through midfield well. But this was against a team that were happy to sit back once they took the lead. Of more concern, I cannot see how we score goals, and its not just about a number 9. We need two attacking wing backs, not defenders turned poor wingers. Diallo may be one but I don't see Dorgu as the other. I don't like the formation, it just means we play too many defenders, and I hate the fact the manager has no other option.Totally agree mate. I’m starting to finally see what RA wants from this side and how we play. Players look assured of what’s needed of them - just a bit of quality in the execution is lacking.
Not sure if I agree with winning the EL though as I don’t see us scoring enough goals. We are so short of quality up front.
Great answer
Its not fair to ask Amorim this, it is a question for ETH. Who played Weghorst ahead of him, one of the most limited players ever to pull on the shirt, and then used the funds from his sale to buy Antony. Along with Onana, Antony and the rest, ETH has left an appalling legacy.How does he nail every answer?
I wanted ETH booted a good 18 months before he was sacked, but I’ll stick up for him over this. Elanga was absolutely fecking shit at United and very few managers would have played him.Its not fair to ask Amorim this, it is a question for ETH. Who played Weghorst ahead of him, one of the most limited players ever to pull on the shirt, and then used the funds from his sale to buy Antony. Along with Onana, Antony and the rest, ETH has left an appalling legacy.
That sounds like Garnacho.Garnacho had done a lot more for us than Elanga ever did. Elanga always looked pretty toothless with us. Just pace but with limited technical abilities and no end product.
Strange reading these comments as I came out of it feeling really positive about him. We lack a cutting edge but then we knew that already. We looked a lot better with the ball, much crisper passing, and we restricted them to very little.
Great answer
I dont think fans are blindly accepting anything other than where the side is at the moment and how big a job it is for Ruben or any manager to walk into.I’m absolutely astounded as to how low standards have dropped and how many fans just blindly accept this.
I was delighted when we got 15 million for Elanga, he wasn't up to it and has found his level in a super defensive counter attacking team.Great answer
Interesting point, but as I have just posted in the Garnacho thread, I think Elanga lacked minutes at United and might have developed into a really good player for us. He's got pace. We lack that severely, and he has shown he can finish in the last two seasons at Forest. Also, some of our best football has been played counter attacking, so I am not sure I can agree that he doesn't fit our system.I feel like we are starting to see his style coming through now. There is a lot of work still to do but there are glimpses.
Our inability to score is a huge problem. Garnacho must have cut inside and taken a shot 10 times last night and not tested the keeper once.
I don’t understand how we are so bad at getting on the end of crosses and cutbacks. Cross it to the back post? Headed away. Cross it to the front post? Cleared. Cut it back along the ground? No one there.
As for Elanga, he’s thriving in a side that plays to his skill set. They sit back and hit you on the break, which allows him to use his speed and directness. He doesn’t have the guile to play for a team who controls the ball and has to unlock a defence patiently. Saying we should have kept him based on that performance is off the mark..
There is no big job for you to win 2 consecutive games.I dont think fans are blindly accepting anything other than where the side is at the moment and how big a job it is for Ruben or any manager to walk into.
What top team does Garnacho get into?Just utterly bizarre questions as usual just trying to get a rise or a soundbite from the manager. Elanga isn't good enough for United. He might be good enough at this point in time but fecking Danny Welbeck is probably good enough for us at this time.
What top team does Elanga get into? None. So what a fecking stupid question. He scored a brilliant goal and played OK. Good for him. Its nice to see him having a good career away from United but that has no relevance to us. In the same way Antony doing well in an easier and slower league has no bearing on whether he is good enough for United.
I thought we were much better than we have been in a long time last night. Forest are just super solid defensively and we have no cutting edge. You can see that Amorims ideas are slowly creeping in and we simply don't have the quality required to make them effective. If we had any quality down our left hand side we would have won that game. Dorgu and Garnacho were both awful when it came to end product.
Standards have really dropped since we accepted ETH's league position last season, since then everything went downhill.I’m absolutely astounded as to how low standards have dropped and how many fans just blindly accept this.
Great answer
Yeah Ten Hag’s stint gets worse the more time goes on. Apart from the summer window just gone he signed some right turkeys.Its not fair to ask Amorim this, it is a question for ETH. Who played Weghorst ahead of him, one of the most limited players ever to pull on the shirt, and then used the funds from his sale to buy Antony. Along with Onana, Antony and the rest, ETH has left an appalling legacy.
One of those ‘don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story’ cases. The journalist doesn’t care about any of that, he’s just using it as a way to point out the irony that a player we deemed surplus has come back to bite us on the arse. Ruben quite rightly was having none of it.Weird question.
Why would it hurt him when he wasn't our manager at the time we sold him, he has never worked with him and there's a very good chance he'd never heard of him until recently?
Can't miss what you never had.
As has been mentioned the pressure at United is immense, the fact we they have to have an academy product in the matchday squads to keep the streak going, so you get kids sometimes rushed into the teams when really not ready. Injuries over a number of seasons have not helped that. Elanga has progressed well being away from the spotlight and getting regular football, good luck to him. Here he would be torn to bits if he doesn't turn into a Beckham.You could argue that he's developed very well away from United though couldn't you? So what is not working at United that doesn't allow a player like Elanga to develop. Frankly, I saw as much from him as I ever have done from Garnacho, yet we keep the latter and sell the former. Not sure this belongs in a thread about Amorim though.
