Yeah my point more so is that we sold a ball chaser who’s not a true anchor DM and then signed another. Ugarte is a bit more positionally sound but paying a premium for an unwanted player who offers genuinely 0 in possession is a hilariously stupid decision. You can find Ugarte types all over the world for much cheaper.
25
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 14
-
Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
He played a subtle but detrimental role in their third goal. In comfortable possession, instead of looking forward he plays a backward pass to Mazraoui and plays it behind him forcing him even further back. He’s a bit shite really.
He’s turning into a poor signing. More liability than asset of late. Can see why PSG let him go.
Missed a simple enough pass to Bruno when we were trying to play out just before their first goal.
Good ball winner and presser in the middle third but not much else unfortunately.
Good ball winner and presser in the middle third but not much else unfortunately.
I really dislike this image he's got where "he's a good ball winner but bad at everything else"
No! He's not a good ball winner. He just kicks shins a lot, and sometimes may win the ball from it.
No! He's not a good ball winner. He just kicks shins a lot, and sometimes may win the ball from it.
He literally is a good ball winner though. Today he had the highest number of recoveries on the pitch. The next 4 players were all Newcastle players.
Weird post. He averages 3.9 tackles per game and 2 fouls per 90 mins. So close to double the amount of clean tackles vs fouls
A few players who average over 2 fouls per 90 mins. Mason Mount 2.9, Sterling 2.8, Liam Delap 2.4, Nunez 2.3, Tyler Adams 2.2, Mikel Merino 2.2, Mac Allister 2.2, Joelinton 2.2, Antoine Semenyo 2.1
Another complete waste of money on a midfielder who is both technically limited and physically lacking. See Fred & Herrera. Except they were better.
This club has such an obsession with stockpiling midfielders who have no passing range, it’s genuinely insane. It took PSG less than 12 months to realise he wasn’t good enough and bin him off, we’ll probably be stuck with him for the next 5 years. It’s just what we do.
This club has such an obsession with stockpiling midfielders who have no passing range, it’s genuinely insane. It took PSG less than 12 months to realise he wasn’t good enough and bin him off, we’ll probably be stuck with him for the next 5 years. It’s just what we do.
He is genuinely scared to take chances and make a pass.
It's not that his passes fails, it's like he doesn't trust his own ability so turns around an plays a back pass.
He seems older than he is and is only turning 24 soon so I hope he does grow but his technical ability on the ball is worrying.
It's not that his passes fails, it's like he doesn't trust his own ability so turns around an plays a back pass.
He seems older than he is and is only turning 24 soon so I hope he does grow but his technical ability on the ball is worrying.
Scared to take risks, scared to show for the ball, scared to be influential and at this point he's probably scared of his own shadow.
Is there any reason that he always seems to be chewing gum?
Beginning to worry about him. Seems to have the mindset of keeping it safe all the time. Some of the "safe" decisions he makes puts his team mates into trouble.
Yeah his ball playing seems to have regressed a bit as the seasons gone along. I think he's a bit better than what he's currently showing.
We've probably overpaid by £10 million for what is a good squad player.
Two new CM's needed(as usual).
It's not really enough these days for a defensive midfielder to only be good at winning possession and stopping attacks - all the top clubs have players in the position who can do much more. You either have to also be really good technically and control the game or start attacks (Rodri, Caicedo, de Jong, Guimaraes, Joao Neves), or have great physical attributes so you can break lines and support the attack as well (Gravenberch, Kante, Rice, Camavinga). Playing Ugarte and Eriksen together is basically just like having one of the above players - so you're kind of almost playing with ten men compared with CL level clubs.
I would worry about Ugarte after we get him a proper CM partner, not the washed up Eriksen, and captain Bruno who looses every other ball he tries to do something stupid.
Towards the end, I don't know if he flipped a switch but he was taking more risks in terms of dribbling with the ball and it was working for him. I don't worry about his on ball ability as much as I worry about his passing choices.
Not being used correctly.
He’s a 6 who sits in front of the defence, wins it then passes it onto others to progress the play.
No such position in this formation.
He’s a 6 who sits in front of the defence, wins it then passes it onto others to progress the play.
No such position in this formation.
Ugarte - Good by Whoscore (Rating 7.15 at PSG), Poor by DataMB (Poor for progress pass, forward pass, carrying)
The free version of stats told us in the advance that he could be average in much better league.
I assume that our scout and recruitment has all the power in their hands about data analyzed tool and in real life watching but cannot judge it properly.
They don't give me confidence that we gonna have good summer.
The free version of stats told us in the advance that he could be average in much better league.
I assume that our scout and recruitment has all the power in their hands about data analyzed tool and in real life watching but cannot judge it properly.
They don't give me confidence that we gonna have good summer.
He defensive output elite. He obviously doesn't win every challenge, but that matters a lot less when you make challenges at the volume he does.
His problems very much lie elsewhere.
I think he would have been a solid signing if we were still playing 433, as you have 2 other midfielders to give the ball to steer winning it who are ideally creative (either in passing or ball carrying or both).
But I don't see how he's going to work in our current setup, when you only have 2 CMs they both need to be good on the ball and he isn't. There isn't room for 3 centrebacks and a purely defensive midfielder if we want to get forward
But I don't see how he's going to work in our current setup, when you only have 2 CMs they both need to be good on the ball and he isn't. There isn't room for 3 centrebacks and a purely defensive midfielder if we want to get forward
The thing is with Ugarte is that he isn't a pure DM. He doesn't have the discipline to sit and hold, his strengths are chasing the ball. He has elite defensive metrics but does he have elite defensive impact? Far from certain that he does. I think he needs a DM with high level ball playing ability beside him so he can do his thing, but in this formation that would be 3 CB's and 2 defensive midfielders, going nowhere with that unless your attackers are Messi and Ronaldo.
I just don't understand this part though. He played in this system for this manager at Sporting and did so well enough that PSG bought him for 60M Euros. How can he not fit into this system?
Different supporting cast, different level of opposition.
Ugarte isn't a bad player. It's just this set up, with this United squad, playing against the most physical teams in European domestic football, makes him look a lesser player.
A good player for an average team where limited technical ability in a DM gets a pass. Oh wait, that’s exactly our reality.
Overly harsh imo
Yoro’s goal against Lyon was from Ugarte’s confidence to volley at goal.
Nacho’s goal yesterday was from Ugarte’s good tackle, hold up play and forward pass to Dalot
Yeah fair enough I hadn't actually considered that. But being good on the ball in the Portuguese league isn't the same as the prem. Maybe he just needs that extra second.
An idea has taken hold in the caf. It's very hard to shake the majority from it once it takes root.
Not sure which good teams that do.
Not really much to do with what posters are talking about, his on the ball ability and consistency is not good enough for a first 11. All players can have moments of great play.
The problem is having a technically limited DM.
But then psg decided he wasn't good enough.
Herrera used to do the same in patches.
He is far too limited to do what Amorim expects from his no.6. He's not a bad player but he is another waste of money sadly. The Uruguayan John McGinn.
Not good enough for their style of play but my point was that Amorim has him at Sporting and used the same system he is using now and yet people are now saying he does not fit the system.
You're correct, he was effective at SCP under Amorim. But you have to look at things holistically when it came to the system and formation that was utilised by Amorim at SCP in a league where you can get away with having a limited midfielder in-possession due to the progressive qualities of the first line at the back who were the dominant force when it came to threading the passes and breaking lines vertically. The league itself outside of the big 3 is not comparable to what should be expected in the EPL and the challenges that await both in-possession and out of possession.
Every coach/manager needs to have his team progressing the ball vertically at a good level. Whether you want to sit back or want to have a strong build up phase with the aim to play in a higher line, you must have players at CB and deeper midfield who have these qualities which enable the team to play higher up the pitch which in-turn opens up the possibility to press from the front and keep the opponent pinned in their own half. In our situation we're way too predictable in the build up phase due to a lack of in-possession quality in midfield. This has been a concern for some time and how INEOS came to the conclusion that a limited player on the ball in Ugarte was the answer is quite simply shocking.
Luis Enrique didn't want Ugarte in his team not because he has a unique system of play but rather he wants his players to carry a vertical passing threat in the build up phase. Ugarte doesn't provide that and became surplus to requirements.
It's really not difficult to identify players who can provide both the defensive acumen out of possession along with the ability to progress the ball forward at a good level. You have to first have that as a criteria and that criteria alone would rule out signing someone like Ugarte.
I'm not worried about Ugarte this season; when you put his entire situation into context, he has done okay relative to the rest of the side. He has generally been solid, has shown glimpses of being expansive with his longer-range passing and has done his primary job of recovering the ball pretty well. Factor in that he had no pre-season with us, had a shortened break owing to the Copa America, EtH then took his time introducing him into the side, and then the change of manager altogether, it hasn't exactly created the right conditions for him to prosper.
I will be worried if he doesn't kick on next season with a full break and a pre-season under his belt.
I will be worried if he doesn't kick on next season with a full break and a pre-season under his belt.
PSG must have been laughing when we came along with €50m+ for him.
Starting to see a lot of the excuses of blaming his team mates for his shortcomings in here. Why would you wait until he gets a different partner to judge him? His lack of quality on he ball will make his partner's job harder. Why would we want to only have 1 midfielder our of the pair who is good on the ball? We need to have both be more than capable.
And the point doesn't work when he was the same player with Vitinha, Ruiz or Zaire Emery. Ugarte isn't playing the way he does due to his teammates.
He got worse, was much better in the beginning