This is a very key point and something I've said before, I can't think of a manager who has been this bad and managed to turned things around. Maybe you can look at Iraola, he was winless in his first 10 games for Bournemouth, but then he went on a run of 7 wins in his next 10. That's 1 more than Amorim has managed just 6 in 22 games. And lets be honest, it wouldn't surprise any of us if he didnt win any of the remaining 5 games.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
This is a very key point and something I've said before, I can't think of a manager who has been this bad and managed to turned things around. Maybe you can look at Iraola, he was winless in his first 10 games for Bournemouth, but then he went on a run of 7 wins in his next 10. That's 1 more than Amorim has managed just 6 in 22 games. And lets be honest, it wouldn't surprise any of us if he didnt win any of the remaining 5 games.
For those that think we should be winning far more games, where do you rank our current attacking options compared the the rest of the league?
Reminder.
When we sacked ETH we had 4 wins in 14 games. One of those wins was the 7-0 win against Barnsley, a team currently in 12 position of League One. Removing that game, it was 3 wins in 13 (23% win rate), scoring 14 goals and conceding 17. This was despite spending a horrific amount of money in the Summer. Yet we only spent a fraction of that on an offensive player despite our attack being fecking woeful for the past few seasons.
Honestly, we're where we are based on our transfer policy. 10 years of poor transfers have finally caught up with the club, i'm generally surprised it's taken us this long. I still have no idea why we decided to only purchase a 23 year old rookie CF this Summer despite it being a clear flaw in our squad for the previous 24 months. Utterly bizarre. What the hell were we thinking/smoking.
When we sacked ETH we had 4 wins in 14 games. One of those wins was the 7-0 win against Barnsley, a team currently in 12 position of League One. Removing that game, it was 3 wins in 13 (23% win rate), scoring 14 goals and conceding 17. This was despite spending a horrific amount of money in the Summer. Yet we only spent a fraction of that on an offensive player despite our attack being fecking woeful for the past few seasons.
Honestly, we're where we are based on our transfer policy. 10 years of poor transfers have finally caught up with the club, i'm generally surprised it's taken us this long. I still have no idea why we decided to only purchase a 23 year old rookie CF this Summer despite it being a clear flaw in our squad for the previous 24 months. Utterly bizarre. What the hell were we thinking/smoking.
For me, the two aren’t linked.
We have a poor and underperforming squad. But setting a standard of what it takes to play for Man United is a good thing for me. Hojlund is shite. But give me 11 players that want to play for united and 14th over a bunch of overpaid wasters who might have us in 9th or 10th.
If we bring in better players who are up to the basic standard of working hard, we’ll be in a better place than we have been watching the likes of Rashford and Sancho turn up whenever suits them the last few years.
While also selling one of biggest goal threats from last season.
Well, for one Mendes was close to taking them down last year. Their form after Cooper went wasn't stellar so they weren't immediately improved.
And I think Sels, Aina, Murillo, Anderson, Gibbs White and Wood would be starters here. Milenkovic, Elanga, Hudson Odoi, Williams, Domingues and Danilo would all get serious minutes as well. Our recruitment has severely blunted us.
And we’d be in a much better position if we replaced them with better players. Rather than just not replacing them at all.
They were bottom. Finishing 17th is an immediate improvement. I think they beat us in Santo’s first game. What we’re doing is the opposite.
They were 17th when Cooper was sacked and finished 17th. They struggled under Nuno to start with.
Behind the striker, he doesn't have the legs for a midfield role
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Amorim hasn’t had a pre season either and when he took over he had the same shit players from last season and started in 12 th place. FFS give him a full season to see what he can do with new players, before you rinse and repeat
And said he wanted to leave as soon as he was called out. Hopefully Utd are done with him, no matter who's our manager.
Im done with keep changing manager. This time round I really think it's the players problem. The tactics and style of play are fine.
We have very weak and naive players. Against Lyon and Wolves, we dominated the games but missed lots of chances. Our defence is leaky because of lapses of concentration and lack of believe.
Let Amorim has a summer and sign his own players.
We have very weak and naive players. Against Lyon and Wolves, we dominated the games but missed lots of chances. Our defence is leaky because of lapses of concentration and lack of believe.
Let Amorim has a summer and sign his own players.
You are correct. I was looking at the wrong table it seemed. They were averaging .59 points per game prior to Santo taking over. They averaged 1.05 over the rest of the season. It’s not amazing but it is instant improvement.
Amorim is averaging 1.05 points per game as opposed to the 1.22 Ten Hag achieved this season. It’s remarkable that people are defending this.
I wanted Eth gone at the end of last year. I was fine with getting rid of Ole too.
It’s amazing this very simple concept needs to be repeated so often: both those managers had multiple seasons and transfer windows to improve their teams. That is the difference. Amorim has had a few months and no transfer window, comparing him to previous managers at this early point is fecking stupid.
The question is a bit futile but reading this thread I keep wondering about it. Am I weird for not trusting or rating his job up until this point while also not wanting him to be sacked? When I read this thread it seems that people either rate him and want to keep him at all costs or don't rate him and want him sacked at all costs.
No, I'm sorry of in the same position. It doesn't feel as though he's had a fair crack yet. I don't think I know what to make of him and won't until he's bought a few more players.
No, it’s not. I’m not a United fan, but that’s pretty much where I stand. I think he’s competent and doing some good things but I also believe his lack of success is a danger and his time could end sooner than expected.
That's a bit of a weird way to angle it. We pumped a lot of money into the squad in the summer, but apparently that doesn't count because Amorim wasn't in the door.
Don't forget that ten Hag took us from "open heart surgery" to 3rd and trophy and another final with just those signings. That's also with losing Ronaldo and Greenwood too for reasons largely beyond his control.
What existing players improved under EtH? Rashford, Dalot, Garnacho, Mainoo, McTominay.
Who was underused/regressed? Maguire (?), Amad.
Who has improved under Amorim? Amad, Maguire
Who has regressed/been misused? Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund, Dalot
I think it’s a little more nuanced than that from the ‘pro Amorim’ crowd. I don’t think anyone is happy with the league performances on the whole, but we can see what he has to work with and the circumstances that are beyond his control, and are simply wanting to give him more time. There is also enough noticeable changes in playing style that shows that with the right players we could build on something.
As a neutral with no horse in the race whatsoever, that’s where I’ve landed.
It may be sunk cost fallacy speaking, but after sacking ETH and Ashworth to accommodate an incredibly risky managerial appointment for reasons that have been discussed to death, to sack him before giving him a summer transfer window would be the worst of both worlds.
However, the idea that a Manchester United fanbase are happy to write off almost an entire season for a relatively inexperienced Manager with zero prior connection to the club seems absolutely looney as an outsider looking in. I’m amazed at his ability to garner such fierce loyalty in such a short period of time.
The idea that he can’t be judged on this season at all, as I’ve read several times in this thread, seems insane to me.
Well, yeah…
We wrote the season off as soon as the board stupidly extended ETH last summer, that’s the sad truth of it.
I don't really see much nuance, if you label yourself as pro something. If you don't rate his job but want to give him more time, you aren't pro, you are on the fence which I obviously see as reasonable. The pro crowd claims that he is a top manager and the man to lead us somewhere, they rate his job up until this point which I assume includes his job with SCP.
I think it’s a little more nuanced than that on the side I’m on. Listen to yourself.
Yes, but it's also amazing this needs to be repeated so often: we don't have the luxury of giving everyone time and all the money we have any more, based purely on the fact that they have already been appointed.
PSR has kicked in big time and we're now hamstrung on what we can spend.
We are comfortably in our worst ever form in the Premier League.
We are looking far closer to relegation than even competing for European spots
It was fine pre-PSR, back when we would, at worst, finish about 7th, to say the manager should be getting time and resources to shape their vision. I think at a certain point those principles have to go out the window and we have to seriously ask if we think Amorim is likely to turn this around given the time and money. It's not just about fair cracks of the whip anymore and the cautionary tales of EtH, Ole and everyone else post-Ferguson should be a good indication that time + financial backing does not necessarily equal success.
I do agree that going all-in on someone is the way forward. Just on the evidence of his CV thus far and how badly things have started, I am absolutely unconvinced that it's Amorim.
No, this difference is, both of those managers had an impact as soon as they took over, which is why they were given transfer windows to improve. Amorim not only has had no impact, but he has made us worse than when he took over.
Nope. Feel the exact same way, he definitely doesn't have the right tools and should have time to get new ones but with the ones he does have, and will be here next year probably we've seen very little in terms of improvement. So it's a struggle to trust him at this point.
Nope, same.
I don't think he's done a good job so far, and I don't see any real reason to think he's more likely to be the guy than plenty of other managers. But I also just don't think the manager is the central issue at the moment, nor do I think any other manager we would appoint is likely to do so radically better a job in the same circumstances that it's worth changing up again.
Also, we're currently so bad and have such obvious holes in the squad that I think we're likely to improve next season regardless, simply through recruitment. Unless our recuitment process is terribly broken, in which case it doesn't matter who the manager is anyway.
Eth had a full summer window to improve the team. He didn’t start mid season like Amorim.
I’d argue most people who are against sacking him fall under this ‘on the fence’ label.
But I think it’s largely semantics. League performance obviously has not been good enough, but I still think under the right circumstances (ie a proper window and a full summer to continue to embed his system) he will improve us next year. The fact he did exactly that at Sporting shows he’s a talented manager. But until he produces similar in England the jury will of course still be out.
But advocating for his sacking so early on is just frankly ridiculous.
Yeah, not in this formation anyway. At best, an ‘8’ in a 3 man midfield - if the other 2 have the legs to cover him and the team maintains majority possession. Otherwise a 10.
Aye I just checked to make sure I wasn't going mad and they got two big wins to start with (one against us) and then went on a bit of a terrible run until the last few games. 2 wins in 15 until the last three games where they saved themselves. An improvement for sure overall but nothing special and nothing to indicate a consistent improvement.
The real improvements for them came in the summer with smart recruitment to address the deficiencies identified by the coach which is what I think should be doing this summer. We have a higher ceiling as well if we pick up some decent forwards (9s and 10s) as I think our play is improving.
It's equally insane for some of us, granted I think we're a minority.
He doesn't really score, assist, beat players 1v1 or stretch the opposition with pace. So I'm really not sure how he's suited to playing in attack.
Truthfully he's not suited to either a 2 man midfield, or attack. He needs a 3 man midfield to get the best out of him, and this alone makes me question whether this was the right managerial appoitnment.
But his performances at the Etihad and Anfield this season suggest there's much more promise for him in the midfield role than this forum suggests.
In any other situation, a United manager would be sacked the night the season ends but we have to give him a window and a least half a season after that to see if he can make it work.
I have to say I have my doubts (a) because he isn't going to get the hundreds of millions needed (b) because I don't think we can attract targets as in the past, despite our name and (c) I remain unconvinced by a guy who is so stubborn refuses to adapt (make me think he can't)
I have to say I have my doubts (a) because he isn't going to get the hundreds of millions needed (b) because I don't think we can attract targets as in the past, despite our name and (c) I remain unconvinced by a guy who is so stubborn refuses to adapt (make me think he can't)
Okay Amorim out brigade. I want to know who you want instead.
I'm not talking caretakers either. Permanent manager who would take the current squad and have them winning every week within a couple of months. They are only allowed one first team signing as well, and if they don't have united winning within 6 months they get fired.
I'm not talking caretakers either. Permanent manager who would take the current squad and have them winning every week within a couple of months. They are only allowed one first team signing as well, and if they don't have united winning within 6 months they get fired.
Nah, think I’m with you in knowing he’s vastly underperformed but also not wanting him sacked (just yet). He sure is putting a hell of a lot of pressure on a very big turnaround over a summer window and preseason, to get us off to a good start next season.
That is my issue, yes he could be sacked, but who would we get. Who wants to take over the club in this state and risk their reputation. It's alright naming this big name manager and that big name manager. People like that want it easy to win things, want to be in the CL, not rebuild a team and a club.Okay Amorim out brigade. I want to know who you want instead.
I'm not talking caretakers either. Permanent manager who would take the current squad and have them winning every week within a couple of months. They are only allowed one first team signing as well, and if they don't have united winning within 6 months they get fired.
That's where I am too, but to me it doesn't feel like most people in here are on either extreme - those are just the loudest voices, so they stand out more.
There is a gigantic chasm between 1.05 points per game and winning every week though. I have no expectation of miracles irrespective of the manager.Okay Amorim out brigade. I want to know who you want instead.
I'm not talking caretakers either. Permanent manager who would take the current squad and have them winning every week within a couple of months. They are only allowed one first team signing as well, and if they don't have united winning within 6 months they get fired.
Do I think we've got a good squad? No. Do I think it's near relegation form worthy? No.