Problem is we’re limited for transfers because of FFP etc but it doesn’t include money spent on infrastructure.
New Stadium | 100k Stadium to be built - design visualisation released
- Thread starter FootyGirl88
- Start date
-
Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Hence the why it should come out of Sir Jim's pocket, so none of the transfer budget is used. Or am I missing something here?
It’s been around since 1910 so I imagine people in 1911 were banging on about how hollow it is no?
We’ll never make the memores we made at Bank Street
Yeah. Once we changed the grass it no was no longer the pitch the memory was made on.
New grass, new seats, new stands, etc. Take a point from any great match in United’s history and most of it has long gone from OT right now if you really want to boil it down so why cry when it’s gone and a place right next to it goes up.
Manchester United the club will still be making memories no matter where they are.
That doesn't really make sense though mate. If I repaper my living room is it no longer the same room?
Of course it's the same pitch. It hasn't moved.
They did raise the pitch to help with drainage, hence the steep slopes between touchline and hoardings.That doesn't really make sense though mate. If I repaper my living room is it no longer the same room?
Of course it's the same pitch. It hasn't moved.
I think we have more money available than we're allowed to spend.
It's not the case that it's the stadium or transfers, or that we cant afford the transfers. It's that we have the money but are being limited by regulations on spending like FFP. While spending on transfers are limited by regulations, spending on the stadium, Carrington etc aren't.
I would imagine a lot of the capital raised to fund the stadium would also be linked to the stadium itself, with naming rights, 'official wifi provider' etc etc.
I don't get why you're being so patronising but ok
New ground means more massive price hikes which means the atmosphere created on Thursday night won't be repeated.
It will be an excuse for those at the club to move out the people who they've celebrated and replace them with corporates and tourists who can spend £500 every week.
It might be needed for the club to thrive at the highest level again but many will be left behind in this attempt at progress.
Why would someone who owns about 29% of shares pay almost £3bn out of his own pocket while the 49% shareholders pay nish and get all the benefits? You're talking bollocks.
If anyone should be putting the cash in out of their own pockets, it's the leeches in America.
Football wasn't as tribal back then, it was a bit of entertainment for the local people who worked in the factories, mills, railways and what not...to enjoy over the weekend. Besides moving wouldn't 't be an issue for me if it weren't for the likelihood of a new Old Trafford doing an impersonation of a theme park. Ratcliffe wants his legacy and to maximise profits (how he's going to fund it all...), I suspect most fans will regret moving to a new ground for bigger seats and a canopy that allows folk to enjoy football Disneyland.
I won’t argue about the price hikes because they’ve already done it with the current ground in place.
But the atmosphere, you realise it was the game situation itself and our current predicament of being shit that created it? It wasn’t the ground, it was the fans and the team.
The same fans will still go, only we’ll have more of them, in a stadium purposely designed to keep the sound in and generate the atmosphere. OT is crap for keeping sound in, and fans feel disconnected at various points cause you can’t even see the rest of the stadium because of the roof in places.
There’s absolutely nothing to say we couldn’t get another ridiculous game like we had last Thursday in a new ground and it wouldn’t feel any less special.
It’s the team, the players, the occasion, the situation that makes the atmosphere and what happens to generate it mean more. The buidling we do it in is almost irrelevant.
Because whilst I absolutely get sentimental attachment to something, the arguments for staying - such as we wouldn’t get a special night like we had on Thursday in a new ground are absolutely nonsensical.
They have precisely naff all to do with the ground we play in.
Hell, three of our best nights ever - 68, 99 and 08 didn’t even happen at Old Trafford, did it make them any less special? No.
Just want people to think about it that’s all. Get over the sentimentality and realise you support the team for the moments they give you and remember they can give those moments anywhere at any time and then you can start thinking of the issues current OT has and realise we’re better off in a new place with those issues resolved.
It’s like buying a new car. I loved my old Seat Ibiza and thought I’d miss it but once I got current one with heated seats, steering wheel, cruise control etc I realised what I’d been missing. I’d move from OT purely on the basis that my knees won’t be mashed into the back of the seat in front considering I’d still be watching United in a crowd full of United fans.
Given OT has been rebuilt multiple times since 1910 it makes even less sense. One more rebuild where you still have the same matchday routines cause we’re hardly moving far from the current spot doesn’t seem like much difference
Last edited:
The moment they sit down in a comfier seat they’ll be happier. The moment they go into a decent toilet for a piss or get a beer quicker they’ll be happier. Not overall enough to forget about the old ground but quality of life improvements are exactly that, improvements.
The moment United do a Fergie time comeback or score from a lightning counter attack they’ll realise it feels the same.
The moment we’ve been there a few years and hopefully had more classic matches and United comebacks and a few trophies and everyone will have forgotten the old place.
I’m sure fans lamented OT going all seated in the early 90’s and losing the old Stretford End experience, yet I bet they don’t mind now cause of everything that’s happened since. They’ll get over it cause supporting the team doesn’t change.
Also wrote the same in an earlier post. Calm down.
This is the issue. I dont see this stadium getting built without a huge change in fortunes. INEOS struggling at the moment and Radcliffe has already spent about £1.5bn, most to the Glazers. The club still has over £0.5bn in debt. The outline plan seems to be some public funding (I doubt it will be that much and certainly wont contribute to the actual stadium) then asset financing secured on stadium and cashflows. That will be very expensive for the club.
Again, as long as it's not a football equivalent of a Disneyland. Personally I've no issue with a new stadium but it really depends on what they've got planned. That said pissing away 100+ years of history for comfier seats and a theme park is mental. Imagine Fulham flattening the Johnny Haynes Stand because it's got wooden seats and pillars.
I think the prices are currently "reasonable". Yes, they should be lower but they compare well with other forms of "entertainment". I also think a family of say 4 can justify £100ish for 4 tickets (yes, I know we're in a cost of living crisis...). Jim Ratcliffe seems to disagree.
The bigger issues at the moment are around tickets being set aside for hospitality packages and long standing ST holders being moved out of areas where they've sat for decades. That in addition to concession increases...
The temporary mid season increase to £66 for members was another sign of things to come.
When the ground is even more full of people on hospitality packages paying hundreds of pounds a game, we'll see a difference in atmosphere even in games like last week.
The atmosphere has genuinely improved a lot over the last 5/6 years despite the shit on the pitch. The new ground move will kill any momentum we had from a fan culture perspective.
Last edited:
I'd like to think a capacity increase of 25k would alleviate a lot of the issues with real fans being priced out/unable to get a ticket. Even if you sold 25K hospitality per game, which they won't, that still leaves 75k seats for season tickets and members.
There's no reason the atmosphere shouldn't be good unless they royally screw up allocation and pricing.
There's no reason the atmosphere shouldn't be good unless they royally screw up allocation and pricing.
Still the same pitch though.
I genuinely don’t think there would be any more season tickets available. Why would you when you can flog padded seats at a premium and get day trippers spending wedge in the megastore.
It’s a sad state that a lot of clubs are looking to squeeze every penny out of the attendances rather than filling the stadium with fans that will contribute.
City are going through it at the moment. They expanded their stadium and are doing so again but have LESS season tickets available holders than they used to.
The new stadium will be a tourist destination. I’d be happy with that if they did that during the week but sold tickets to actual fans but they won’t.
Has the stadium been built yet?
They're going to screw up allocation and pricing.
We really need, as a fanbase, to come together over this. Once they've gone up, they're never coming back down.
That will be it for tens of thousands of people. Local kids will grow up in a world where a match at OT is a once a season Christmas treat.
Fulham would if they could. Having a stand with pillars and wooden seats is a hazard as well as awful from a fan perspective.
I think having an area around the ground that generates income year round, gives more footfall to the local area and allows us to do more for fans new and old is a good idea. You might think it’s a theme park but modern gans want more amenities and something to do pre and post the match. The club will want more people at OT for longer than just the matchday and will want more than just museum and meegastore-goers too.
Like they’ve said they’ve explored stadium trends around the world to see how to maximise revenue and having year round footfall is a huge boon if you have the space.
Meanwhile modern stadium design has reached the point where we are able to be top drawer in acoustics to keep the atmosphere in and we can have massive imposing stands to really hammer away at any opposition. I know people are worried about ruining the progress made on the atmosphere over the last few years but why would the club, who have played an active role in that, suddenly throw that away? If anything I bet they work to get the loudest fans together which would be easier when starting from scratch than relocating fans in a current setup.
115 years is a wonderful stretch for a stadium, we all love the place, but some fans don’t know what we’re missing. The lityle improvements that some might nnot care about all add up in the end. Wider concourses, quicker food and drink, better/bigger toilets, wifi access, better seats with more legroom etc are all simple improvements that you won’t think if straight away but will benefit from.
I think having an area around the ground that generates income year round, gives more footfall to the local area and allows us to do more for fans new and old is a good idea. You might think it’s a theme park but modern gans want more amenities and something to do pre and post the match. The club will want more people at OT for longer than just the matchday and will want more than just museum and meegastore-goers too.
Like they’ve said they’ve explored stadium trends around the world to see how to maximise revenue and having year round footfall is a huge boon if you have the space.
Meanwhile modern stadium design has reached the point where we are able to be top drawer in acoustics to keep the atmosphere in and we can have massive imposing stands to
intimidate the opposition (and put the away fans up in the gods). Combine in with loads of safe standing for most of the ground and we’ll be fine atmosphere wise
They hold about £3bn in cash balance and are worth $68bn. I'd hardly call that struggling.
In the early days none of our Champions Cup games were played at OT. We didn't have floodlights so they were played at Main Rd. On one particular game we were 3-0 down from the away leg and were playing the home leg and though I lived about 2-3km away from Main Rd I could hear the roar of the crowd as we went on to win our home leg 4-0. I was a little too young to go to that game but my dad went.
Somebody suggested earlier that there was no tribalism in the UK in 1910 but if we look into history there has always been tribalism in the UK and if not why are cricket games between Lancs and Yorks called the war of the Roses and Liverpool and United could date back to the building of The Manchester Ship Canal. The Scots have always been killing each other off though a lot of theirs is religion based.
Make it huge, make it accessible, make it distinct (I think all the modern stadiums prefer a bowl so the rectangle facade is probably gone but you can hopefully save some of the old style at least). Make sure the catering is great, the seats are comfortable with legroom (but still right by the pitch), and the other “little” things are taken care of.
according to the Athletic, our budget is £2 billion. By contrast, SoFi (which apparently Ratcliffe wants to emulate) cost $5.5 billion between 2016 to 2021. Not sure how we can spend half the money to get something of a similar standard. That makes me nervous.
according to the Athletic, our budget is £2 billion. By contrast, SoFi (which apparently Ratcliffe wants to emulate) cost $5.5 billion between 2016 to 2021. Not sure how we can spend half the money to get something of a similar standard. That makes me nervous.
Last edited:
We’re still in the monitoring stage!
In the original announcement stuff, they did say that being able to build it in parts off site and bring them in using the canal would make it a lot cheaper to build. How true that is I do not know.
I know the arguments for moving all make sense, which is why I've not argued against them, and I also know that I'm being a sentimental fool
It's like I said to @Red in STL , though, who also made great points in favour of moving, Old Trafford isn't just about the atmosphere created by us fans. I said this was cheesy but, when I'm in Old Trafford, it has its own unique feeling whether you're there for a game, tour, etc, that, to me, you can't replace.
It's also like @Spoony says. Moving is one thing, but the stadium we'd be moving to just isn't appealing. Sure, it could grow on us if special nights like Lyon happen there - and maybe it won't - but I can only speak about how I feel about it now.
Either way, I'm not saying that the move will impact how much I support the club. I'll always support United. I was just saying how special Old Trafford is.
I get it honestly. You can replace a something you love with the exact same one and it doesn’t quite feel the same, let alone something different regardless of it being better or not, we’re a bunch of weird emotional creatures.I know the arguments for moving all make sense, which is why I've not argued against them, and I also know that I'm being a sentimental fool
It's like I said to @Red in STL , though, who also made great points in favour of moving, Old Trafford isn't just about the atmosphere created by us fans. I said this was cheesy but, when I'm in Old Trafford, it has its own unique feeling whether you're there for a game, tour, etc, that, to me, you can't replace.
It's also like @Spoony says. Moving is one thing, but the stadium we'd be moving to just isn't appealing. Sure, it could grow on us if special nights like Lyon happen there - and maybe it won't - but I can only speak about how I feel about it now.
Either way, I'm not saying that the move will impact how much I support the club. I'll always support United. I was just saying how special Old Trafford is.
There’s room for sentimentality both in life and at United. It’s why we love the moments from our past and it’s why we hope those moments will return in the future.
But we have to move with the times. OT has finally hit its limit in its current position. Time to go. I think it’s a massive leap but I’m not sure how much more I can take of being crap and endless stories of leaky roof waterfalls, rats everywhere and so on. We need to change everything fundamentally to get rid of the woe is me mentality we’ve got at the minute, need to stop feeling sorry for ourselves and need to stop everyone else piling it on to boot.
Land in SF/bay area is likely more expensive than Manchester plus the exchange rate and any additional cost savings and extra funding methods.
I think a lot of the concerns around the new ground can be valid alongside thinking the club needs to 'move with the times' slightly.
Moving with the times though shouldn't mean sidelining season ticket holders of 40/50/60 years because the club fecked up its transfer policy and now needs to increase revenue by selling more hospitality packages.
The current ground nearly needs some work but I'm not sure why this means why we need to spend billions on a new stadium.
Couldn't the club build some bars and restaurants around the ground to increase matchday spend for example?
Couldn't the club sell better food and drink in the ground for the "ordinary" fans to again, increase revenue. Everyone I know at OT very rarely gets a beer at the ground but the vast majority would do if it was something other than Carling or Doom Bar. Even in the short term, this needs looking at surely?
There's also the argument that every single major decision the club has made since 2013 has turned into a major disaster. What makes people think this will be any different?
Regarding the bit in bold, when did we all get so weird about fans of other clubs say on the Internet?
Stories will follow at the new stadium. It's Manchester United, everything is a story. I've seen major roof leaks at supposedly excellent grounds owned by big clubs at Anfield, The Emirates & Dortmund in person over the past twelve months but they're not stories because they're not Manchester United. I've seen a leak at Old Trafford once in the same timeframe, after the Arsenal game last season there was a deluge that was so bad even the pitch couldn't cope with it and it was all you saw all over social media for weeks. As soon as it rains once and there is a drip anywhere at the new stadium, the exact same stories will follow. The weird thing is people caring about what supporters of other clubs think to be honest, they will always look to laugh at anything United do so feck them.
Good job the SoFi isn't in the SF/bay area then seeing as it's the better part of 400 miles south in the LA area
How does it work for Sir Jim and the Glazers? The Glazers surely expect more money; their leverage is the controlling shareholding and SJR will certainly expect to get more of Class A shares, especially enough to take him above the 50% threshold. I don't see the Glazers giving that up without the cash going to them, the club isn't in a financial state to take on a £2bn debt without severely impacting our ability to compete in the transfer market.
Probably not but it wasn't purchased to build a stadium, it's built on part of what was once a racecourse and other stuff that was demolished in 2013 and the land was up for redevelopment, the stadium is just part of it and the land owners are part of the consortium that built it (as I understand it anyway)