I'm also pretty certain that the stadium announcement/visualisation etc. would not have happened if the freight yard and terminal issues had not already been solved.
New Stadium | 100k Stadium to be built - design visualisation released
- Thread starter FootyGirl88
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You'd hope so .... because the only alterative I could see would be setting up a scapegoat to blame when they announce we're moving elsewhere because they weren't allowed to knock the terminal down
You should be less certain.
Public Announcements are often used to create a groundswell of public support for an idea to allow Ineos in this case to use it to their advantage in negotiations.
I'm still inclined to think its all distraction so that fans aren't talking about the standard of the team.
He's a billionaire spiv.
In thar case, the distraction has not worked. We are constantly talking about the standards/failings of the team.
I think they've the idea of a solution rather than it being actually solved.
It's complex with lots of vested interests.
https:// x.com/AmorimEra_/status/1907832879561736575
It’s clearly not a ‘distraction’. A great deal of resources have already gone into this.
Can you screenshot it or summarise what this is? I'm not visiting X let alone making an account on it
And you think various experienced people, the UKs most reknowned architect, Govt officials, the Mayor of Manchester, etc are all in on it, and the millions it’s cost is some tax write off?
wouldn't be the first time government officials have been conned by a billionaire.At best its Ratcliffe trying to mobilise public support to lever more cash out of the tax payer and compliance of government bodies.
At worst it's cynical exploitation of the club to gain land ownership. Also the more public investment in the scheme the greater value of Ineos future assets.
The club is just a tool to unlock a very lucrative opportunity.
Don't we own the land already?
And?
Who cares?
As long as we have top class facilities and aren't playing catch up to other clubs - I'm fine with the outcome. The club is behind in multiple departments, we need to move forward and be brought into the modern era.
Ratcliffe, Burnham, the Govt, the launch documentation … all state no tax payer money is used in the stadium build. None.
The club don’t gain any land, we own space to the side/behind Old Trafford to build half a dozen stadiums.
Per first sentence, NO public investment goes into Uniteds stadium and none will go to Ineos, assets or cash.
No it’s not.
Most of it and we've enough spare land in the vicinity to do swaps and to sell some bits off.
The issue really does revolve round the transport links. United need them to work on matchday. But the local house building plan needs them anyway.
As long as the freight services are sharing the current passenger lines that run across Manchester they can't expand passenger services in that part of greater Manchester.
The freight companies don't want to be on that site and nor do the owners/operators of the freight depot. Moving the freight depot (out towards Warrington) has been in the GM development plan for ages. It was part of the "Northern Powerhouse" plan. HS2 had a version of it.
Manchester and the other local authorities are now proposing this cutdown version of the original infrastructure plans. But it still costs money. Andy Burnham says it's about 250/300m but I think he's probably just talking about the Manchester section. I'm guessing the current trainline that runs to the west of the City (along the Newton-le-willows to Preston route) has to be upgraded as well and also some road upgrades will be needed to link the depot to the motorways.
It's not a cheap project (unless you compare it to HS2 or the original Northern Powerhouse infrastructure plan). But it's cheap compared to projects like CrossRail that's finally done and the Oxford-Cambridge upgrades that are proposed.
Whether United's involvement gives it more chance of going ahead or less, I can't guess. It should give it another economic argument to go ahead - it might let United make money in the very longterm but it also opens up that area to more housing and more businesses to replace the factories and warehouses that have gone.
However because it's too easy to describe it as a subsidy to United or Ineos it might actually make for bad political "optics" to give it the government funding it would need.
Thanks for a very detailed response to a very short and simple question. The transport issues aside, I'm guessing that housing, retail and hospitality will be built on some land owned by United, thus generating revenue? It's always going to be played out in the media as "taxpayers pay for United's new stadium" regardless of the facts.
According to the Omar Berrada/Collette Roche briefing session they're working on a mix of land sales and swaps. They think they'll make money on the land sales.
For the land we retain, I guess it'll depend on exactly how it pans out. They're taking about revenue from a hotel and about retail/hospitality businesses that aren't just active on match day. Will it work? That's part of the United stadium investment gamble, but that is United's gamble and funded by the club.
All we know for sure is that Burnham wants it for Manchester and that there are some very big landowners/developers involved. United's stadium project unlocks a bigger project. But I think United's view may well be that the stadium build only makes financial sense if the rest of the project goes ahead. For Manchester the freight depot and the new passenger services are part of that overall story.
Can't imagine the current economic meltdown is doing any favours for stadium costs and financing.
Commodity prices will crash. interest rates will go down.
Great!
We'll be able to fit it all out economically with stuff from China, cut-price now they can't sell to the yanks.
Pretty much this The week after protests we get Ratcliffe doing interviews, and then the announcement.
My bet.. we don’t hear anything until the next round of protests.
While I do agree there is a lot of distraction and deflection in business (yes I am calling United a business in this case). All the work that has gone in to this prior just makes it just too far fetched to call this a smokescreen. Yes, maybe it was brought forward to deflect a little and used to their advantage but this is definitely not just a distraction.
It was mentioned that a decision on the rebuild/new stadium would come in the summer initially so it was either brought forward as it was clear as day or to try distract/spur the club on.
I'm quite excited and might buy a hard hat and visit the area every week to check on progress when it all starts
While I do agree there is a lot of distraction and deflection in business (yes I am calling United a business in this case). All the work that has gone in to this prior just makes it just too far fetched to call this a smokescreen. Yes, maybe it was brought forward to deflect a little and used to their advantage but this is definitely not just a distraction.
It was mentioned that a decision on the rebuild/new stadium would come in the summer initially so it was either brought forward as it was clear as day or to try distract/spur the club on.
I'm quite excited and might buy a hard hat and visit the area every week to check on progress when it all starts
Good point. I agree it’s a bit of both.
I was always for staying at Old Trafford, and that Lyon game... man, Old Trafford is just special with nights like that.
I'm still gutted we're moving.
I'm still gutted we're moving.
You realise that those matches can happen in another ground right?
It’s the worst argument for staying for me.
Anyone who went to great games pre 1993 could argue the same about the current ground as that’s when the current first tier bowl was completed.
Anyone know when we past changed the pitch? Could argue that as well.
What do you mean when we changed the pitch? As in the grass?
Well, it's not like that's my main argument. I was just making a comment about how special Old Trafford is.
As a Mancunian who's been going to Old Trafford since the 90s, we will have a hard job capturing the atmosphere Old Trafford generates in general. I'm not talking about chanting but just the general feeling you get inside the stadium.
Everything about the new stadium screams hollow to me.
The fans make/generate the the atmosphere not the stadium, I am also a Mancunian who started going to OT in the 70's, the stadium then is completely different to the one you started going to in the 90's and the current incarnation, the atmosphere the fans can create is no better or worse in any of the different eras in my experience
We're finally making Ed's dream come true.
I'm not talking about the atmosphere the fans make. It's hard to explain, and very cheesy, but I'm talking about the feeling you get inside the stadium in general. Whether I've been there for games, stadium tours or some events I went to as a kid with my dad. It's like how your home has a specific feeling compared to when you're in someone else's house for a lack of a better description
I appreciate that you have a different opinion as someone who's been a fan longer than me, but I can only speak from my experience.
The less said about some of my homes the betterWe're finally making Ed's dream come true.
I'm not talking about the atmosphere the fans make. It's hard to explain, and very cheesy, but I'm talking about the feeling you get inside the stadium in general. Whether I've been there for games, stadium tours or some events I went to as a kid with my dad. It's like how your home has a specific feeling compared to when you're in someone else's house for a lack of a better description
I appreciate that you have a different opinion as someone who's been a fan longer than me, but I can only speak from my experience.
Sorry to hear that, but I hope you're in a better place now!The less said about some of my homes the better
So, as someone who's been going to games since the 70s, how do you feel about the potential move? It sounds like you're in favour of it.
The argument for not moving seems to be mostly about the history of OT, a new stadium not having such a history, the way I look at it that the current stadium doesn't reflect the history of my generation so I think most fans of my age group are more inclined, as I am, towards a new stadium.
I haven't been to OT for years but the last time I was there I barely recognized it from the outside, inside the match experience was uncomfortable, the seats were lacking in legroom and the facilities were just inadequate.
Expanding the current stadium is not really practical, the railway line is a huge problem and from what I've seen it would cost a huge amount od money to just refurbish and extend the current site, starting from scratch is more sensible IMO
I get how people don’t want to move.
The stadium leaks, the seats are cramped, the food is shit and it’s pretty basic. But it’s our stadium.
I like that it’s a bit shit and I’m shoulder to shoulder with another United fan. I like how packed in we are and it feels a bit more tribal when it’s like that.
Not a fan of padded seats and salmon served at half time.
I’ll be absolutely gutted at the end the last game at OT but can’t help but think I’ll be a massively fickle fan boy that will be eager to see what the new stadium is like inside.
I really hope they make the entire new Stretford End safe seating
The stadium leaks, the seats are cramped, the food is shit and it’s pretty basic. But it’s our stadium.
I like that it’s a bit shit and I’m shoulder to shoulder with another United fan. I like how packed in we are and it feels a bit more tribal when it’s like that.
Not a fan of padded seats and salmon served at half time.
I’ll be absolutely gutted at the end the last game at OT but can’t help but think I’ll be a massively fickle fan boy that will be eager to see what the new stadium is like inside.
I really hope they make the entire new Stretford End safe seating
I dont see why we couldn’t get the same atmosphere if the Lyon game was in a newer stadium.
I was previosly mostly in favor of refurbishing, but after visiting this year it’s all just in such a dire state - I’m leaning a bit more towards a new one, as I like the design and that it’s unique (hate that one futuristic jetson tower though).
But there’ll be something special about going to the new stadium too I believe. Simply because you’re going to watch United. It’ll be designed for great atmosphere too.
I was previosly mostly in favor of refurbishing, but after visiting this year it’s all just in such a dire state - I’m leaning a bit more towards a new one, as I like the design and that it’s unique (hate that one futuristic jetson tower though).
But there’ll be something special about going to the new stadium too I believe. Simply because you’re going to watch United. It’ll be designed for great atmosphere too.
Yeah atmosphere won't be an issue if it's a great game like the Lyon one. I think they've even said the stadium will be better acoustically but I get the sadness at something that is not OT.
It's really just not that important compared to the issue on the pitch, if there's any split in terms of money going to the transfers vs stadium it should 100% be going to transfers right now.