Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

[Superunknown]

Who do you want to see him targeting?

I don't think that it's a surprise that we're linked to Gyokeres, since he's worked with Amorim recently and because his numbers are just fecking insane right now. 48 goals in 47 games this season. 43 in 50 last season. He has to be the top of our list. He fits the profile we need. A striker in his prime, excellent stats, and ready to take the next step up.

Who we target and who we end up with are two very separate things, however. I see us linked to Gyokeres, Osimhem, Ekitike. Any one of those improves us dramatically.

 

[NZT-One]

When you have a turnover of over £600m per season, a stadium that holds 75,000+ and a wage bill of over £300m, you are most definitely an Elite Professional Football Team!

Do we have Elite ownership, Elite Executives who run the club or even an Elite playing Squad or Coach?

Absolutely not but don’t ever say Manchester United with all of it’s heritage and history is not an Elite Club, that’s absolute nonsense.

I am sure, you have the best intentions but thats sounds worryingly close like Woodwards mindset.

Elite clubs should be elite clubs because what they achieve playing football, not in annual account sheets. What has all that money do for us in the last few years? Nothing - it made us an even bigger laughing stock because we thought we could buy ourselves out of the misery. But we couldn't. And thats how we get to where we are.

 

[Zumbi]

Maybe clumsy wording on my part. Clearly, the squad is a mish mash of other managers bad decision making but he has clearly made big decisions on the squad.

Yes, it was only one major signing in Dorgu, but he allowed attacking players to leave and didn't replace them. He made that decision.

He made tbe decison to leave us in a situation where we were an Amad injury away from having virtually no pace in the team.

He's made that decision to play 343 and stick with it when it's clear that it's not working.

Again, my wider point earlier up in the thread is that he's playing the long game but needed to make better decisions in the short term.

Essentially tossing the 2nd half of the league season away means we need to start next season like we did in 2006. If we're 10th by the start of October, the pressure on him will be immense and Im not sure he has the personality to overcome that.

Who knows what’s happened behind the scenes between him and INEOS regarding those decisions. If he’d have been in a position to bring new attackers in in January, maybe he would have.

The jury’s out for me. If we manage to sell Rashford and Antony this summer after putting them in the shop window for the past few months, and that raises much needed funds to invest in replacements, then the short term impact of losing those two in a dead rubber season may seem well worth it.

Of the things that concern me about Amorim right now, it’s not his involvement in getting rid of players who clearly weren’t working here.

 

[Woziak]

I am sure, you have the best intentions but thats sounds worryingly close like Woodwards mindset.

Elite clubs should be elite clubs because what they achieve playing football, not in annual account sheets. What has all that money do for us in the last few years? Nothing - it made us an even bigger laughing stock because we thought we could buy ourselves out of the misery. But we couldn't. And thats how we get to where we are.

It can get worse ask Leeds fans?

If you accept mediocrity and embrace an inept coaches excuses you build a club on poor foundations, I keep saying managing an Elite Club like Man United, Bayern, Arsenal, Real, Barcelona, Liverpool , or the two Milan clubs and Juventus you need to have fully loaded CV not a couple of wins in Portugal or Holland.

Many fans turned their nose up at Scott McTominay and Conte, I loved Scott and said we were making a huge mistake, his two goals today probably win Conte another major Title in a highly successful career, when you look at Spurs now, how did Conte get them to 4th place?

My point Paul Scholes and Roy Keane were both asked about 3 years ago before ETH was appointed who would they appoint as Manager, both Said Conte,

United fans were petrified of that type of football now we have a younger less experienced, less flexible coach trying to play an even more defensive style of a 3421 system but fans say he’ll come good, I really hope so but I’ve seen enough in football to know, when an owner is not happy and watching SJR on Tv today during the game, he’s not happy and he has a habit of supporting an exec/manager in the media and one month later sacking him!

 

[Roboc7]

He’s going to get a chance to turn it around next season. This is a very poor squad but only winning six games isn’t good enough.

In theory a couple of good attackers makes a huge difference but we could very easily be in the same position next season and he’ll be gone within a couple of months.

With or without Amorim I have very little expectations as this only gets fixed with much better recruitment over multiple windows.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

What do you see with the eye test though?

XG aside, how many high quality chances are we creating for the forwards? Today we maybe had one big chance with the Garnacho 1vs1, and then a lot of pot shots.

What is our strategy for moving the ball through the thirds, aside from give it Bruno?

What threatening positions have you seen the wingbacks in? When have we created an overload from having the extra defender breaking lines?

Do we have control in games? Why are we not more solid despite often playing 5 genuine defenders and a double pivot.

I'd say in the matches I'd watch, the eye test by and large backs up what the stats are showing.

At the City Ground against Forest, we conceded an early goal from a frankly incredible run from Elanga which should probably have been stopped by a defender. We then peppered their goal for about 75 minutes. We were well on top, and whilst they defended very well (and one might argue their strategy was to do so), we definitely created enough to have scored one or two but didn't. This is reflected in the expected goals.

City at Old Trafford was a pretty dull affair. I'd say a draw was a reasonably fair outcome but, of the two sides, I felt we had the better of the game and created the better of the chances. If one team deserved to win that match, it was certainly us, and this is supported by the expected goals.

In the Newcastle game we started reasonably well but, to be honest, were pretty much ran ragged once Isak opened the scoring. The expected goals again reflect their dominance - this is a game in which we were deservedly battered.

Against Wolves at home, again we completely controlled the game. In fairness, we didn't create a tonne of great chances but we still had enough good opportunities that I'd have expected us to score. We then got sucker punched by a brilliant Sarabia free kick near the end. Again, the xG broadly reflects this.

Onto today against Bournemouth. Now, to be fair, I do think this game ebbed and flowed a little bit. There were certainly spells where Bournemouth were on top, and there were equally spells where we were better. Up until their red card, I don't think either side created any great chances - the only difference was that when Semenyo was given a sight of goal he rifled it into the corner whilst when our forwards got half a chance (e.g. Garnacho in the first half) they couldn't beat Kepa. The sending off certainly pushed the balance of play in our favour as you'd expect, and I honestly felt we created enough that we probably could've scored more than once. I've seen some suggest that the sending off was harsh and we got lucky but I simply can't agree with this, and would further argue that Bournemouth very much could've been down to 10 men a lot sooner on a different day with Adams' earlier challenge. Generally, they were far more forceful in challenging for the ball than we were, which can offer advantages in 50-50s but comes with the risk of a player going in too recklessly and being sent off for it like Evanilson was.

Point is, while we're still pretty far away from completely dominating matches, I would by and large say that our performances recently have been good enough to have won most of them. Certainly, if we'd been as clinical as some of our opponents have been we'd have taken more than a single point.

 

[TrivelaDeBruno]

I don't think Ole was actually trying to have us do that.

Ten Haag did, but in terms of player profile, I genuinely don't think he understood the league. The speed required did not work well with his ultra fluidity set up. In addition, he made the criminal mistake of underestimating the physicality needed in the league and this underestimation is the reason we moved down from a top4/5/6 team to where we are now.

What I also think is different is that the back 3 being employed by Amorim requires positioning and understanding that I don't think our defensive unit have really had an opportunity to understand. When you add that we do not have any midfielders outside of Bruno that can take the ball from the defence themselves, it leaves us constantly in a state of being pressured.

Amorim himself may also need to take the time to adjust his primary build up pattern, as there is the chance that its ill-suited for the pace of the league.

And we haven’t had a set back 3 that’s had an opportunity to get games under their belt playing together. It should take years to build this chemistry but it also doesn’t happen out of the blue.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Read your first sentence before realising it needed a JUST in there.
That's fair enough.

As very very obviously the attack is an incredible problem. Even if Amad and Zirkzee were fit it's the weakest attack we've had in memory.

You're right. Fixed it. Cheers.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

It clearly is the attack that is the problem

I forgot "just". It's not just the attack. Our defence with Amorim is the worst post Fergie. And that's not my opinion. That's a fact.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

It’s bleak. There’s not a single player who’s looking like they’ve improved under his guidance. We are certainly not going to do a Chelsea and assemble an entirely new squad for him. It would be par the course that we sack a bad manager to appoint a worse one while Liverpool win title 20 in their first campaign with their new manager. Sick day.

 

[NZT-One]

It can get worse ask Leeds fans?

If you accept mediocrity and embrace an inept coaches excuses you build a club on poor foundations, I keep saying managing an Elite Club like Man United, Bayern, Arsenal, Real, Barcelona, Liverpool , or the two Milan clubs and Juventus you need to have fully loaded CV not a couple of wins in Portugal or Holland.

Many fans turned their nose up at Scott McTominay and Conte, I loved Scott and said we were making a huge mistake, his two goals today probably win Conte another major Title in a highly successful career, when you look at Spurs now, how did Conte get them to 4th place?

Thats quite a take...

My point Paul Scholes and Roy Keane were both asked about 3 years ago before ETH was appointed who would they appoint as Manager, both Said Conte,

United fans were petrified of that type of football now we have a younger less experienced, less flexible coach trying to play an even more defensive style of a 3421 system but fans say he’ll come good, I really hope so but I’ve seen enough in football to know, when an owner is not happy and watching SJR on Tv today during the game, he’s not happy and he has a habit of supporting an exec/manager in the media and one month later sacking him!

Wasn't that mostly because Conte is also known to be a tricky character? ETH and Amorim were expected to be install modern football at United. Both failed so far but not just because of modern football being actually bad but because as a club we made a myriad of mistakes managing the club. ALL our rivals are looking to employ modern principles who improve their players - it is the way to go. Until now, it hasn't happened for ETH who didn't get the balance right between physicality and technique. He was also let down by factors outside of his control like injuries, off the pitch issues and so. All that applies to Amorim as well. Even though he didn't even have a full window to add a player yet. What exactly makes you think, that Conte would have found a way to make Hojlund or JZ useful strikers? What could he have done without capable wide players? What would he have done with our midfield selection. A team that got outrun and outfought, outsmarted and doesn't show much football IQ. You are acting as if all that wouldn't be a factor if only Amorim wouldn't be around anymore. Thats crazy

 

[TwoSheds]

I don't know what to make of the guy really. I really don't enjoy watching us play at the moment but then there's a definite air of nobody really giving a shit in these latest league games other than trying to make sure they're ready for the Europa League. The players also really aren't very good so it's quite hard to draw many conclusions. Rashford is still our best forward but he's not been interested in playing for us for a long time now, we need to find something much better than what we've got up top and on the wings. Amad coming back would be at least a start I suppose.

 

[TrivelaDeBruno]

All I want to know is genuinely how many United fans will still back Ruben if he’s had 20 PL matches next season to the new year and 27 this season and he’s still only won 25% of those matches which is 12 and he’s lost 24 which is 50% ?

We would definitely be in a real relegation fight then and we might not have two games per week or European Football to use as an excuse?

Or will those fans that back him now finally do a full 180 like they did with ETH and say we should have sacked him earlier.

It’s ok for an Elite Club to sack underperforming coaches, you might have to change 3 or 4 until you get the right one that can handle the pressure, has the elite experience, is tactically very astute and wants to attack other team from the first minute of the game.

Elite club?!

I almost spit my drink out. If that was comedy, A+ man.

It’s been over 10 years since we’ve been ran like a Liverpool, City, Arsenal, Barcelona, etc…Do you not understand the correlation between what the Glazers have done to this club and what you’ve been seeing on the pitch?

 

[TwoSheds]

It’s bleak. There’s not a single player who’s looking like they’ve improved under his guidance. We are certainly not going to do a Chelsea and assemble an entirely new squad for him. It would be par the course that we sack a bad manager to appoint a worse one while Liverpool win title 20 in their first campaign with their new manager. Sick day.

Bruno looked fecking hopeless under Ten Hag for much of his tenure. He's been playing the best football of his career under Amorim for me given the dross around him in attack. He's also had a number of young players make their debuts and look very comfortable which I think is to his credit. Casemiro has also remembered how to play football. I think there's some very obvious people who've improved tbh, I'm not sure it's enough mind.

 

[Cassidy]

I forgot "just". It's not just the attack. Our defence with Amorim is the worst post Fergie. And that's not my opinion. That's a fact.

Our defensive numbers have eroded the last 3 seasons as our attack has got worse, almost as if you not providing an attacking threat encourages the opposition to attack more

We don’t make teams cautious of us, of course we can improve everywhere, but actually attack is the priority, I would even say midfield and GK over the backline

 

[UnofficialDevil]

100%. Just hoping when (if) we fix it that something else in the team doesn’t break completely. As it has been for years.

It isn't though. This excuse keeps getting flung around the caf.

Our defending is just as bad, why are people ignoring this?

"if we fix our attack we will be fine"
We won't.

We are comfortably the leakiest of any iteration since Sir Alex Ferguson left the club 12 years ago.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ng-team-in-premier-league-after-wolves-defeat

 

[Captain Barnacles]

Honestly we look better playing 4 at the back like today and Lyon towards the end, obviously both these were down too 10 at the time but I wish he would just give it a go, what's the worst that can happen ? we lose again. I personally don't see him lasting til the end of next season, he's too stubborn to change, you can't play the same way against Liverpool away then Southampton at home, you have to adopt to different situations and he doesn't

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

All I want to know is genuinely how many United fans will still back Ruben if he’s had 20 PL matches next season to the new year and 27 this season and he’s still only won 25% of those matches which is 12 and he’s lost 24 which is 50% ?

We would definitely be in a real relegation fight then and we might not have two games per week or European Football to use as an excuse?

Or will those fans that back him now finally do a full 180 like they did with ETH and say we should have sacked him earlier.

It’s ok for an Elite Club to sack underperforming coaches, you might have to change 3 or 4 until you get the right one that can handle the pressure, has the elite experience, is tactically very astute and wants to attack other team from the first minute of the game.

If he's 20 matches into next season and his record is as it is now then I will most likely cease to back him because by that point he will have had a summer transfer window to have improved the squad, which I would very much hope will include the addition of at least two forward players who are considerably more productive than the ones we have now.

To put it into context, if we were to sign Matheus Cunha and Liam Delap this summer (and I don't think Delap is really even the best striker we could get honestly), that'd be two players who in this season alone have scored more goals in a top five league than literally anybody in our squad besides Fernandes, Rashford and Sancho have ever managed in any single season of football in a top five European League. Two of those have since regressed massively and gone out on loan because of it, and this has left Fernandes as the sole remaining player we have who has managed to break double figures for goals on more than one occasion throughout his senior career.

I'm in full agreement that what we've seen from Amorim thus far is extremely far from good enough but, given that he was left with an absolute horror-show by his predecessor, I also think I've seen enough improvement in the past few months to say that he deserves to be given a chance with a side that has a better forward line.

 

[Maluco]

Who said our general play would not improve with better attacking players?

Also who said we shouldn’t improve GK or defence?

Fact is we can improve the GK or other positions we will still finish bottom half with the same attacking options

It will improve, but even if it didn’t, we would have another 20 goals with Cunha/Delap. Where would we be with even 20 more goals?

The fact that performances will improve too means things could improve rather quickly.

Basically, adding a midfielder to compete physically/technically, two decent attackers and a GK that doesn’t make a mistake every other game, and we are a totally different side.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I don't know what to make of the guy really. I really don't enjoy watching us play at the moment but then there's a definite air of nobody really giving a shit in these latest league games other than trying to make sure they're ready for the Europa League. The players also really aren't very good so it's quite hard to draw many conclusions. Rashford is still our best forward but he's not been interested in playing for us for a long time now, we need to find something much better than what we've got up top and on the wings. Amad coming back would be at least a start I suppose.

It’s a hard one. Hugely likeable, you can’t help but want him to be given time and yet very little on the pitch that seems to hint at something more.

What confuses me is it seems the worse he’s done the more people believe it will come good. For me his job is 100% riding on the EL now, there’s no way you can defend the league form, I honestly think some people don’t realise/forget how bad it is (I think there was a graphic today on the game showing we’ve won 6 in 23!)

 

[JPRouve]

It will improve, but even if it didn’t, we would have another 20 goals with Cunha/Delap. Where would we be with even 20 more goals?

The fact that performances will improve too means things could improve rather quickly.

Basically, adding a midfielder to compete physically/technically, two decent attackers and a GK that doesn’t make a mistake every other game, and we are a totally different side.

Same place than last year.

 

[davidmichael]

You dont think Palace have a better team and squad than us? Seriously? We're TERRIBLE. Bruno gets in their side, Amad does, and Shaw if fit and at his peak - thats it on a talent basis.

Stop it you don’t think Dalot, Mazraoui, Yoro, Maguire, De Ligt, Martinez, Heaven, Ugarte, Mainoo, Mount and Garnacho get into Palace’s team ahead of what they have as well as Bruno, Amad and Shaw ?

Honestly I’m starting to think Amorim has put some kind of voodoo spell on some people where he makes you believe it’s all on the players and how they’re worse than anything outside the bottom three whilst Amorim is doing Sir Alex circa 1999 level work just keeping us where we are.

The formation, the tactical approach, the constant playing out from the keeper, the snail pace tempo, the refusal to change anything tactically and the refusal to cross the ball into the opposition box in favour of passing it sideways or backwards with zero width are all things on Amorim.

We scored today when we started continuously putting the ball in the Bournemouth box and played with genuine width with Garnacho leaving his 10 role to go on the outside and Bruno dropping deep so the game was in front of him and this isn’t the first time this has happened yet Amorim refuses to learn from it and stubbornly reverts to type the following game.

 

[Fts 74]

He should go back to low block counter attacking like Ole which everybody and their dog said isn't sustainable, but hey, we'll be 10th maybe ,he's come in mid season after warning us it won't be pretty but he's not good enough.
I dunno anymore, patience has well and truly gone, we want change but we want it instantly, we have to give him a summer at the very least, otherwise why did we bother hiring a manager whose style was different and well known btw,just to say after 6 months your useless and pivot again?
Give him a chance.

 

[TrivelaDeBruno]

It isn't though. This excuse keeps getting flung around the caf.
Our defending is just as bad, why are people ignoring this?

"if we fix our attack we will be fine"
We won't.

We are comfortably the leakiest of any iteration since Sir Alex Ferguson left the club 12 years ago.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ng-team-in-premier-league-after-wolves-defeat

It’s not excuses and it’s rather comical how you keep talking like anyone at the clubs works for you and owes you something. These are human beings and there are intangible factors at play here and that’s a fact regardless if you can understand it or not. Maybe try FIFA or FM. You can throw fits, exit without saving and play pretend to your heart’s content, and the topper is you won’t have to think critically.

 

[croadyman]

It’s a hard one. Hugely likeable, you can’t help but want him to be given time and yet very little on the pitch that seems to hint at something more.

What confuses me is it seems the worse he’s done the more people believe it will come good. For me his job is 100% riding on the EL now, there’s no way you can defend the league form, I honestly think some people don’t realise/forget how bad it is (I think there was a graphic today on the game showing we’ve won 6 in 23!)

He deserves this summer window whatever happens in Europa and won't believe anything different

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Mateta was woeful previously so did Glasner help improve him? Or was he just lucky? Do you seriously think Palace had a better squad than us at the start of the season?

It doesn’t matter what I “think”. Simply watching the likes of Mateta/Olise/Eze for a few minutes will show you the gulf in class between them and the attackers we started with today.

It's not a debate we had a stronger squad under Ole. The issue is people are trying to somehow bash Ole for playing pragmatic football that largely worked and praise Amorim for what he has delivered to date, which is disappointing against any realistic expectations.

It stems from the same attitude that Amorim is infallible, and that he has discovered a "system" that is superior to others. To be honest, I don't even know what Amorim ball is outside of the formation.

I mean Ole couldn’t ever figure out how to coach a system to build out of any coherent high press. Go back and watch any game against a good pressing team and it was an eye sore. But he was brilliant in coaching counter attacking movements and patterns and it fit many of the players in those squads. But comparing people getting mad at year 3 Ole still having to cede 75% possession to top teams, to Amorim 6 months in being unable to score goals with any sort of consistency is strange.

And anyone that says Amorim is infallible is an idiot. I’ve said many times that I can understand both sides of the arguments for and against him. But to act like he’s a god awful manager and it’s him solely to blame when I watch Garnacho blast shots into the stands and Hojlund have any pass rocket off his shins while he’s unable to get a singular shot off is just daft. As a manager you can only coach so much. It’s why I’ve been critical of this stupid 4-2 build up structure with an inverted CB

 

[Snormac]

I remember two things Pep said in his first year at City really clearly, which I always took as a real insight into English football (that cheating cnut). 1 - that second balls are far more important in the PL than elsewhere, and 2 - that you need to be able to score at least 3 goals in a game. 2 insights that reflected the fact that his team were both getting bullied by teams that would just launch the ball up the pitch, and also that the strength of the league meant any team nick a goal.

The lack of physicality in this United team has been apparent for a while - especially in midfield and up front. Newcastle (the most physical team in the league?) have smashed us twice this for exactly this reason. We can't move it through midfield because no one has that combination of athleticism to get into space, strength to receive the ball and hold off the man on your back, and technical skill to turn and play the ball. Up front we have similar weaknesses.

And we don't have enough goals. Newsflash. We haven't had enough goals since we lost Greenwood, Cavani and Ronaldo in quick succession. Ten Hag compensated last year by just throwing everything forward, at the expense of facing more shots than every other team in the bar just one.

We need to score more goals next year, and that's on Amorim and the recruitment team. But I don't see any system or any coach that get more goals out of the team that has been out on the pitch the last couple weeks. If we did - Wolves, City, Forest, Bournemouth (and I'm sure more) - these are all games we win.

Goals and physicality. Doesn't matter which coach you bring in, the recruitment needs to bring in goals and physicality.

Is there a formation which compensates for these deficiencies? Does a 4-2-3-1 gets us champions league? Maybe if we had Casemiro of 2 years back, a form Rashford, a fit Martinez. But we don't, and the recruitment in the interim hasn't replaced the qualities those players had - goals and physicality. And even then we needed more on top of that.

But you wouldn't be wrong to object that that still isn't reason enough to move to a back 5. Why not just stick with a 4 and get the players. And you'd be right. Ten Hag had to go, as the dressing room had turned, and I don't think he ever had the media personality to take this job in particular. But you could've gotten another back 4 manager.

But doing so reduces Amorim down to nothing but his formation, which is the kind of surface level analysis I would expect of a Sky Sports pundit, not the well informed and well reasoned patrons of Redcafe. No, we can all recognise that there's a multitude of qualities that the Ineos team have seen in Amorim. But the most important ones relate to how in his first summer at Sporting he got rid of 25 players, promoted a load of youth, and rebuilt. The back 5 is a detail - we bought him in to rebuild.

But is it a detail that causes a problem? Of course not. A back 5 has strengths and weaknesses just like any other system, but if Conte can win the league with it then so can we. That Chelsea team had Costa, Hazard, Moses, Alonso, Matic, Kante. Goals and physicality.

If that's what we need, then Cunha, Delap and Ederson seem like good starts.

 

[askabob]

We can make all the excuses and mental gymnastics we want…but at the end of the day, he’s just not very good, is he?

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

It doesn’t matter what I “think”. Simply watching the likes of Mateta/Olise/Eze for a few minutes will show you the gulf in class between them and the attackers we started with today.

I mean Ole couldn’t ever figure out how to coach a system to build out of any coherent high press. Go back and watch any game against a good pressing team and it was an eye sore. But he was brilliant in coaching counter attacking movements and patterns and it fit many of the players in those squads. But comparing people getting mad at year 3 Ole still having to cede 75% possession to top teams, to Amorim 6 months in being unable to score goals with any sort of consistency is strange.

And anyone that says Amorim is infallible is an idiot. I’ve said many times that I can understand both sides of the arguments for and against him. But to act like he’s a god awful manager and it’s him solely to blame when I watch Garnacho blast shots into the stands and Hojlund have any pass rocket off his shins while he’s unable to get a singular shot off is just daft. As a manager you can only coach so much. It’s why I’ve been critical of this stupid 4-2 build up structure with an inverted CB

That must be why we finished above Palace every year bar this year? Palace do not have better players than us, yes we’d take Eze for sure of them right now, Wharton too but in a functioning side we should not need to take Mateta, I’m not having that.

The players we have may not be world class but they equally aren’t uncoachable either.

The players, manager and coaches are all under performing it’s as simple as that.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

I remember two things Pep said in his first year at City really clearly, which I always took as a real insight into English football (that cheating cnut). 1 - that second balls are far more important in the PL than elsewhere, and 2 - that you need to be able to score at least 3 goals in a game. 2 insights that reflected the fact that his team were both getting bullied by teams that would just launch the ball up the pitch, and also that the strength of the league meant any team nick a goal.

The lack of physicality in this United team has been apparent for a while - especially in midfield and up front. Newcastle (the most physical team in the league?) have smashed us twice this for exactly this reason. We can't move it through midfield because no one has that combination of athleticism to get into space, strength to receive the ball and hold off the man on your back, and technical skill to turn and play the ball. Up front we have similar weaknesses.

And we don't have enough goals. Newsflash. We haven't had enough goals since we lost Greenwood, Cavani and Ronaldo in quick succession. Ten Hag compensated last year by just throwing everything forward, at the expense of facing more shots than every other team in the bar just one.

We need to score more goals next year, and that's on Amorim and the recruitment team. But I don't see any system or any coach that get more goals out of the team that has been out on the pitch the last couple weeks. If we did - Wolves, City, Forest, Bournemouth (and I'm sure more) - these are all games we win.

Goals and physicality. Doesn't matter which coach you bring in, the recruitment needs to bring in goals and physicality.

Is there a formation which compensates for these deficiencies? Does a 4-2-3-1 gets us champions league? Maybe if we had Casemiro of 2 years back, a form Rashford, a fit Martinez. But we don't, and the recruitment in the interim hasn't replaced the qualities those players had - goals and physicality. And even then we needed more on top of that.

But you wouldn't be wrong to object that that still isn't reason enough to move to a back 5. Why not just stick with a 4 and get the players. And you'd be right. Ten Hag had to go, as the dressing room had turned, and I don't think he ever had the media personality to take this job in particular. But you could've gotten another back 4 manager.

But doing so reduces Amorim down to nothing but his formation, which is the kind of surface level analysis I would expect of a Sky Sports pundit, not the well informed and well reasoned patrons of Redcafe. No, we can all recognise that there's a multitude of qualities that the Ineos team have seen in Amorim. But the most important ones relate to how in his first summer at Sporting he got rid of 25 players, promoted a load of youth, and rebuilt. The back 5 is a detail - we bought him in to rebuild.

But is it a detail that causes a problem? Of course not. A back 5 has strengths and weaknesses just like any other system, but if Conte can win the league with it then so can we. That Chelsea team had Costa, Hazard, Moses, Alonso, Matic, Kante. Goals and physicality.

If that's what we need, then Cunha, Delap and Ederson seem like good starts.

3 CBs, Dorgu, Ugarte and Dalot. That is six players who will not get us many goals. If a back 5 is just like any other system why has it only generated 1 PL title out of 33? Amorim has done nothing outside Portugal and it shows. Hiring a 3421 manager was a massive gamble.

 

[NZT-One]

Stop it you don’t think Dalot, Mazraoui, Yoro, Maguire, De Ligt, Martinez, Heaven, Ugarte, Mainoo, Mount and Garnacho get into Palace’s team ahead of what they have as well as Bruno, Amad and Shaw ?

Honestly I’m starting to think Amorim has put some kind of voodoo spell on some people where he makes you believe it’s all on the players and how they’re worse than anything outside the bottom three whilst Amorim is doing Sir Alex circa 1999 level work just keeping us where we are.

The formation, the tactical approach, the constant playing out from the keeper, the snail pace tempo, the refusal to change anything tactically and the refusal to cross the ball into the opposition box in favour of passing it sideways or backwards with zero width are all things on Amorim.

We scored today when we started continuously putting the ball in the Bournemouth box and played with genuine width with Garnacho leaving his 10 role to go on the outside and Bruno dropping deep so the game was in front of him and this isn’t the first time this has happened yet Amorim refuses to learn from it and stubbornly reverts to type the following game.

Ruben should change his tactics to make sure, we are a man up every game.

 

[Maluco]

Same place than last year.

I don’t think so. Our goals conceded is improved, and we are clearly harder to break down than we were under Ten Hag. We could be top 6 with 20 more goals in the team.

And that’s before you account for better performances after a proper pre-season with the system and Onana’s clangers.

Rashford had to leave and he has been hamstrung coming mid season and having the attackers he has. Next season will be really positive, I really believe that.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

It’s not excuses and it’s rather comical how you keep talking like anyone at the clubs works for you and owes you something. These are human beings and there are intangible factors at play here and that’s a fact regardless if you can understand it or not. Maybe try FIFA or FM. You can throw fits, exit without saving and play pretend to your heart’s content, and the topper is you won’t have to think critically.

What a bizarre post. What are you talking about. Completely irrelevant to anything I've said. Maybe try FIFA or FM? Who on earth promoted you.

 

[Garethw]

Stop it you don’t think Dalot, Mazraoui, Yoro, Maguire, De Ligt, Martinez, Heaven, Ugarte, Mainoo, Mount and Garnacho get into Palace’s team ahead of what they have as well as Bruno, Amad and Shaw ?

Honestly I’m starting to think Amorim has put some kind of voodoo spell on some people where he makes you believe it’s all on the players and how they’re worse than anything outside the bottom three whilst Amorim is doing Sir Alex circa 1999 level work just keeping us where we are.

The formation, the tactical approach, the constant playing out from the keeper, the snail pace tempo, the refusal to change anything tactically and the refusal to cross the ball into the opposition box in favour of passing it sideways or backwards with zero width are all things on Amorim.

We scored today when we started continuously putting the ball in the Bournemouth box and played with genuine width with Garnacho leaving his 10 role to go on the outside and Bruno dropping deep so the game was in front of him and this isn’t the first time this has happened yet Amorim refuses to learn from it and stubbornly reverts to type the following game.

Well said! At last someone that isn’t completely deluded.

 

[AndyMUFC]

He will get sacked if this continues into next season no doubt, it's been poor, but the main issues we're seeing are not going to suddenly disappear with a change of manager.

We won't score enough goals without signings, and we're not physical or athletic enough for this league without signings.

 

[croadyman]

He will get sacked if this continues into next season no doubt, it's been poor, but the main issues we're seeing are not going to suddenly disappear with a change of manager.

We won't score enough goals without signings, and we're not physical or athletic enough for this league without signings.

Oh yeah he's toast if this continues next season, what athletic players do you feel need to come in. Not much point talking about strikers because club have pinned everything on Delap (stupid)

 

[Cassidy]

It isn't though. This excuse keeps getting flung around the caf.

Our defending is just as bad, why are people ignoring this?

"if we fix our attack we will be fine"
We won't.

We are comfortably the leakiest of any iteration since Sir Alex Ferguson left the club 12 years ago.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ng-team-in-premier-league-after-wolves-defeat

We conceded more goals last season and finished 8th

PL. 23/24 38 games 58 goals conceded 1.52 goals per game

PL 24/25 34 games 47 goals conceded 1.38 goals per game

So what was the big difference between this season and last if we are conceding less?

Yes we still need to improve defensively but we have scored 39 league goals this season only 4 teams have scored less. We scored 59 goals last season in the league, which already was not good enough.

Also if you do not offer a goal threat you encourage teams to attack you more which makes your defensive efforts worse.

No one is saying the only issue we have is our attack but it is by far the biggest issue and if you don’t think so then ok, I have nothing else to say to you

We even actually have promising talent in the back line.

EDIT: You also should not parrot false stats, the link you provided was comparing ETHs United overall (which included his first season where we had a very good defence) to this season. Last season iteration was by far the worse defence we had, especially if you include Europe.

 

[Garethw]

Oh yeah he's toast if this continues next season

The board have a very difficult decision to make if we don’t win the EL. If they back him this summer and then sack him a couple of months into the season then they will look completely incompetent. They will have made the exact same mistake two summers running and written off two seasons.

 

[Cassidy]

The board have a very difficult decision to make if we don’t win the EL. If they back him this summer and then sack him a couple of months into the season then they will look completely incompetent. They will have made the exact same mistake two summers running and written off two seasons.

They don’t really have a choice to be honest. We clearly handicapped him in Jan which means they must have been willing to risk this season. Would be stupid to then go in another direction this summer but I wouldnt put it past them

 

[Garethw]

We conceded more goals last season and finished 8th

PL. 23/24 38 games 58 goals conceded 1.52 goals per game

PL 24/25 34 games 47 goals conceded 1.38 goals per game

So what was the big difference between this season and last if we are conceding less?

Yes we still need to improve defensively but we have scored 39 league goals this season only 4 teams have scored less. We scored 59 goals last season in the league, which already was not good enough.

Also if you do not offer a goal threat you encourage teams to attack you more which makes your defensive efforts worse.

No one is saying the only issue we have is our attack but it is by far the biggest issue and if you don’t think so then ok, I have nothing else to say to you

We even actually have promising talent in the back line.

We play with 7 defensive players most games. A back 5 and 2 holding midfielders. That’s why we don’t concede as many and also why we don’t score as many as last season.

Amorim sets us up so negatively that we need 3-4 world class attackers to make this work. We are on a hiding to nothing.

The coach won’t adapt his system so without £500-£600 million of player recruitment we are fecked.