Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

It's working in patches, and its quite clear how successful it would be if we cleared the first phase. The problem is, us not clearing the first phase leaves us trapped in our half too much with the current players we have at our disposal.

The system is designed to invite pressure and break through it through quick and direct play. The plan b of this is quickly getting the ball up the pitch and winning the second ball for quick attacks. United, as currently constructed are lacking in these two areas more than any other team in the league. We don't have the physicality, energy or composure as a unit to be effective in the system as currently designed. Add this to the fact that we currently don't consistently have the personnel available to play a high line. This isn't about 343, its about current players aren't able to carry out the core functions of this system.

To clarify further, Chelsea, City, Arsenal and Liverpool all have the right profiles. Which is to say that some of these functions are standard for any team looking to challenge for titles in the Premier League. In these teams, the majority of their squads have the profiles to carry out the core functions of this system. They're midfielders have good energy, their defenders have decent pace, their midfielders can move off the ball and their attackers can press. So when Arsenal replaces Odegaard with Merino, the drop off isn't as drastic. When Liverpool lose MacAllister, Curtis Jones can fill in.

This isn't about signing an Mbappe type of players, this is about ensuring that the first xi and depth can actually carry out carry out core functions.
 
roseguy64 said:
Managers have turned down Man Utd before. And fine, he took the offer. People then can't use this as an excuse for him. He had enough belief to think it wouldn't matter for him then so it doesn't count.
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Reality isn't an excuse. It simply is what it is. The club insisted it was now or never for Amorim and knowingly placed him in a situation that was never going to end well. Next year will be the first full year he will be expected to demonstrate a clear upward trajectory. If he finishes this year with a trophy and CL qualification, that will be regarded as a massive win given the circumstances.
 
soapythecat said:
I totally see the objective side to sticking with Amorim, regardless of my views of his ability in the PL, but I don’t see him getting 5-7 players this summer, nor do I feel the playing staff are as bad as many make out. Yes, they have been poor for a couple of seasons but the basics aren’t even getting done right now. Is that confidence in this system, coaching staff, methods?

His rigidness in regards to formation has totally been the clubs downfall in the league and I’m not sure many can dispute that. It may be looking a bit more stable of late, but we are coming from a pretty low baseline here. If he was really all that, he could have and should have mixed it up. If the club told him to stick to his system then they are as much to blame for putting him in at the wrong time. But one or two windows won’t fix this I feel. The system has been overly exposed time and time again, which worries me as a fan because it feels like ETH all over again this Summer.
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Out of curiosity, is there a squad in the past 40 years, SAF until now, that was a worse squad, compared to this one? I agree that they are not playing completely up to their own standards, but also, I look at the squad and see very little thought put into squad construction, more just a hodge podge Frankenstein like approach.
 
roseguy64 said:
We've looked competent under both ETH and RVN both this and last season when we played more to the player's strengths than wanting to play basketball. So the players can shine in a good setup.
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We didn't look competent all season under Ten Hag last year barring the FA Cup final. How bad is the collective memory of this forum?
 
Raoul said:
Reality isn't an excuse. It simply is what it is. The club insisted it was now or never for Amorim and knowingly placed him in a situation that was never going to end well. Next year will be the first full year he will be expected to demonstrate a clear upward trajectory. If he finishes this year with a trophy and CL qualification, that will be regarded as a massive win given the circumstances.
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Not to me, but then I remember this club had a lot of fans calling it a disaster finishing 8th last season despite winning a trophy. Things have changed that quickly I guess.
 
AltiUn said:
We didn't look competent all season under Ten Hag last year barring the FA Cup final. How bad is the collective memory of this forum?
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We literally changed tactics a few times before the final last season and Hojlund was scoring and Amrabat looked like a talented player.
 
roseguy64 said:
Not to me, but then I remember this club had a lot of fans calling it a disaster finishing 8th last season despite winning a trophy. Things have changed that quickly I guess.
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You wouldn't consider CL qualification and winning a major trophy to be a good thing ? Interesting.
 
roseguy64 said:
That mutual understanding is between him and the board, not him and the fans. We shouldn't be using that to defend him. He had agency to not take the job. He backed himself and hasn't done a good enough job so far.
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But it’s just logical extrapolation. If he told the board he wasn’t confident of joining mid season because he did not think his methods would work well with the current playing staff, but they said ‘that’s okay. We want you to join anyway and understand that’, then it is entirely relevant to the fans perception of him.
 
stepic said:
Nope. He’s not getting sacked even if we don’t win it, let alone if we do.
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Amorim getting sacked is a possibility. I don't think that's what's gonna happen, nor it's something I would like.
 
roseguy64 said:
We had people demanding the club sign Amrabat on a permanent because of his performances at the end of last season due to the change in setup.
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Yup, I remember that. Those people were lunatics with the memories of goldfish.
 
Raoul said:
You wouldn't consider CL qualification and a major trophy to be a good thing ? Interesting.
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It is but it's not happening in a vacuum. The other parts of it have been terrible. So it evens out and I'm being generous there.
 
roseguy64 said:
We had people demanding the club sign Amrabat on a permanent because of his performances at the end of last season due to the change in setup.
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We also had the majority wanting Ten Hag to stay after 1 lucky cup win.
 
Posh Red said:
But it’s just logical extrapolation. If he told the board he wasn’t confident of joining mid season because he did not think his methods would work well with the current playing staff, but they said ‘that’s okay. We want you to join anyway and understand that’, then it is entirely relevant to the fans perception of him.
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I understand all that. I just don't think either party expected him to do such a bad job. He had more belief he could do better and the board the same. He has absolutely not met the expectations they had despite that mitigation. If he has met the expectations then I have even less faith in INEOS than I barely did.
 
roseguy64 said:
It is but it's not happening in a vacuum. The other parts of it have been terrible. So it evens out and I'm being generous there.
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We were never going to have a good league season given the circumstances. Not with Ten Hag, nor with his replacement. The squad simply wasn't set up for success given the lack of a competent centre forward. And yet here we are in a situation that could potentially result in a more successful season than Arsenal (unless they pull of an improbable result on Wed).
 
roseguy64 said:
We had people demanding the club sign Amrabat on a permanent because of his performances at the end of last season due to the change in setup.
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It was because he played well once in the FA Cup final. Same logic that saw Ten Hag get a renewal when he was begging for the sack all season with the job he had done. Some of our fans get ridiculously sentimental with these things.
 
JPRouve said:
In theory it's easy to balance and tweak. And from a squad building standpoint it allows to have all options open, some systems require specialists or at least players that are comfortable in relatively peculiar roles, a 442 diamond is an example.
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Agreed, easiest to recruit for, to change styles, and less specialist positions. The only real problem position is if you want a single pivot, those players a hella expensive for someone proven.

My hope is in the summer, he accepts it's ok to play other styles and we see a few different ideas i.e. just play 433 but do what Brighton do and drop a midfielder into the CB pair if it's so important to have that extra man in possession. Even have the 343 as the long term goal as you recruit better players and then switch to it at a more sensible point if you must.
 
SER19 said:
It was, and obviously if we include their spells towards the end. But 6 months in under other managers was not remotely this bad - in fact I dont think in my lifetime weve ever had such poor results against every team above us. 1 win in 16 if we removed Ipswich, Southampton and Leicester.

Again, Im not writing Amorim off, and every season has different circumstances and challenges, but there is no way I thought we'd be this poor by May. I thought the blueprint of next season would be well established and very clear, but honestly I cant see it.
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Doubt many of us thought results would be this poor, including Reuben himself, needs to start next season well or knives be out for him
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Agreed, easiest to recruit for, to change styles, and less specialist positions. The only real problem position is if you want a single pivot, those players a hella expensive for someone proven.

My hope is in the summer, he accepts it's ok to play other styles and we see a few different ideas i.e. just play 433 but do what Brighton do and drop a midfielder into the CB pair if it's so important to have that extra man in possession. Even have the 343 as the long term goal as you recruit better players and then switch to it at a more sensible point if you must.
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What you are suggesting is actually something that crossed my mind regarding Ugarte, his skillset and weaknesses could be used and hidden in that type of role. It's not as common in 2025 but someone like Edmilson or even Van Bommel had success doing that.
 
CM said:
It was because he played well once in the FA Cup final. Same logic that saw Ten Hag get a renewal when he was begging for the sack all season with the job he had done. Some of our fans get ridiculously sentimental with these things.
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He also had a killer debut in the league cup iirc. If that's not a nailed on future signing, then I don't know what is.
 
roseguy64 said:
Not to me, but then I remember this club had a lot of fans calling it a disaster finishing 8th last season despite winning a trophy. Things have changed that quickly I guess.
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Yes, finishing 8th in a second full season where we regressed all over and the underlying metrics were even worse than that was absolutely a failure.

We are now having to reap what we sow with the disastrous squad building we did under Ten Hag.
 
CM said:
It was because he played well once in the FA Cup final. Same logic that saw Ten Hag get a renewal when he was begging for the sack all season with the job he had done. Some of our fans get ridiculously sentimental with these things.
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Was maddening watching the switch up from our fanbase in such a short amount of time just because we fluked an FA cup run.
 
JPRouve said:
What you are suggesting is actually something that crossed my mind regarding Ugarte, his skillset and weaknesses could be used and hidden in that type of role. It's not as common in 2025 but someone like Edmilson or even Van Bommel had success doing that.
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Agreed, spend big on a CM who can play alongside Bruno who is technical but more of a runner/dribbler (maybe Luiz) and immediately it makes it so hard to press us if the more limited CM drops back to form a 3 and pushes the FBs on (just as Amorim wants anyway). Ugarte would need to do more running but he's a workhorse.
 
edgecutter said:
Eth got 600 million. If amorim can't get his system going with 200 million signings then he needs the boot.
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The profile of player we need means that’s 2.5 players. £200 million doesn’t go as far as it used to. We can’t half-arse it again with bargain basement signings like Dorgu, hoping they can make the jump up.
 
Raoul said:
Scouts would obviously identify lesser known players. The coaches will know the more established ones. I would imagine Amorim provides Wilcox and Berada with a list of preferences at each position in need and the latter two get to work to see which they can buy.
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Everyone’s got the new Football Manager.
 
roseguy64 said:
Yeah but those clubs had managers appointed mid-season previously who instantly improved the fortunes of their clubs. They rode the momentum of that to top 4. Amorim will have to be going against the norm to do that.
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Yeah momentum matters, which is what winning the EL can give him.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
The profile of player we need means that’s 2.5 players. £200 million doesn’t go as far as it used to. We can’t half-arse it again with bargain basement signings like Dorgu, hoping they can make the jump up.
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If the profiles of this specific system mean we need spend that much more on players, that sounds like a pretty good argument to cut losses now and change the manager.
 
I think we should be backing him to be in charge next season and I expect I shall get my wish. He's gonna start on very thin ice though. If we're really bad for the first 8-9 league games then we should sack him and search for our next victim.
 
Raoul said:
A strange take given that virtually zero managers would ever turn down the chance to coach Man United. So of course he was going to take the offer, even if it was a massive risk to begin mid seseason.
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Not sure what we actually gained from bringing him in midseason.

There is no way SJR and the board brought him in expecting potentially 17th in the league. All thats happened is the pressure on him at the start from next season couldn't be higher. All the get out of jail free cards will have already been used up.
 
astracrazy said:
Not sure what we actually gained from bringing him in midseason.

There is no way SJR and the board brought him in expecting potentially 17th in the league. All thats happened is the pressure on him at the start from next season couldn't be higher. All the get out of jail free cards will have already been used up.
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It was a peculiar decision by Berada. Suspect it was driven by not wanting to miss out on Amorim since Hugo Viana was tipped to go to City, and with Pep potentially not extending, the concern was that City could’ve swooped in for Amorim to replace him. So in the end it was probably driven by FOMO, more than anything else.
 
Raoul said:
It was a peculiar decision by Berada. Suspect it was driven by not wanting to miss out on Amorim since Hugo Viana was tipped to go to City, and with Pep potentially not extending, the concern was that City could’ve swooped in for Amorim to replace him. So in the end it was probably driven by FOMO, more than anything else.
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Strange how frequently we tend to make decisions based on City-driven FOMO. Sanchez, Maguire, Fred, and Ronaldo all come to mind.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
It's a pretty huge difference in and out of possession.

Why would a CB need to push up in a 433, it didn't always happen in Klopp's system, it's not some unwritten rule of a 433? The RB and LB should attack if we want to be offensive (this is probably the biggest issue United have missed post SAF in my mind, with Shaw when fit being the only exception). It's weird people keep saying but Hojlund, but Garnacho, as if we didn't play them last year and have a direct reference point. We know they are both better in a direct 433, even one as bonkers as ETH's. Sure we should upgrade but they are who we have right now.

No one has said a 433 magically changes anything, but why do so many teams play it? Can you name me a single team that plays 343 high possession without a press? Because that is what we play.
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I said CBs (at least one) should push up in Amorim’s system, not in a 433. In essence it forms a similar formation in possession. If you have two CBs push up you get even more numbers forward, but it still comes down to the personnel - Martinez was excellent at it, Yoro has the potential to get there too. Maz is better in that role as well but you wouldn’t want him in a CB pairing.

Hojlund and Garnacho are young and inconsistent. I don’t think you can really say that they performed better last year because it was a different formation. Hojlund had a streaky run but outside of that was essentially the same player. Garnacho has had plenty of opportunities to score this year.
 
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tomaldinho1 said:
Bruno/Ugarte is a decently balanced CM but their workload is pretty extreme in this setup. Put more expansive passers behind them in the CBs and two much more dangerous/mobile 10s (Cunha/Amad) even without changing striker and immediately the team is much better offensively.

The question really is why we are pursuing 343 in my opinion still, it seems plainly obvious every PL team knows it inside out and knows how to exploit it so do you just keep buying better and better players to raise the overall level or do we become a bit more tactically flexible?
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I have yet met a fan who can explain the benefits of playing our 343 system. We will sign a couple of decent players and become a poorly coached mid table team.
 
Raoul said:
It was a peculiar decision by Berada. Suspect it was driven by not wanting to miss out on Amorim since Hugo Viana was tipped to go to City, and with Pep potentially not extending, the concern was that City could’ve swooped in for Amorim to replace him. So in the end it was probably driven by FOMO, more than anything else.
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Complete conjecture
 
Raoul said:
It was a peculiar decision by Berada. Suspect it was driven by not wanting to miss out on Amorim since Hugo Viana was tipped to go to City, and with Pep potentially not extending, the concern was that City could’ve swooped in for Amorim to replace him. So in the end it was probably driven by FOMO, more than anything else.
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When you think it apparently cost Dan his job, Beradas job must be on the line with this?
 
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