He’s the CM I’d want from the PL, so underrated for the importance to that Palace team.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
I don’t know how else to explain some people’s inability to see things that painfully obviously have nothing to do with tactics. You’re right though that shouldn’t matter.
In terms of quality there’s a lot of upgrades that will need to be made to compete for the league, but even the current squad injuries and all can play better on an individual level if they weren’t afraid of their own shadow. Hoijland isn’t a complete donkey but it looks like he’s already resigned to lose the ball before he touches it. Quite a few of ththem goals we’ve conceded lately are a result of players hesitating to attack the ball or go into tackles.
IIRC, he has said a few times already he doesn't expect us to playing the current reserved style next season and he would like for us to spend more time with the ball in the opposite's half.
He’s easing some of these attacking players back in after injuries. He is quite clearly not a defensive manager, despite all the ‘7 defensive player’ jibes in here. There were people still calling it a ‘defensive back 5’ in the match thread despite Dorgu being our most lethal attacker first half. Illogical.
It’s such a load of bollocks, isn’t it? He’s literally said this multiple signs since joining, and has had barely any attackers available, yet posters on here persist with this nonsense about him playing too many defenders. It’s baffling.
The shape was a flat back 5 with 2 DMs in front of them, whichever way you look at it.
Dorgu being out main focal point of attack says it all, that first half was terrible. He should've gone to grab a goal or two in the first half, then rested players.
Lovely through ball for Garnacho but, other than that, I thought he was poor in the final third tonight.
Good subs tonight. They were needed, maybe even 5-10 mins overdue in terms of the first subs I thought, but he got the personnel right given what happened after.
It literally wasn’t, given you’ve just said Dorgu was our main point of attack. How can he be if he’s in a flat back 5? How does he get a through ball to Garnacho playing in a flat back 5? How does he almost get a pen playing in a flat back 5?
Great to be the the final but we are playing Spurs. We have lost to them in recent times. I hope Amorim get this team right from the start and show us that he can make this team competitive. To say "come on lads, it is Spurs" is disrespectful. Spurs would use this to be motivated and beat us. If Spurs win, it might save Ange's job (just like ETH). If they lose, he will be sack. No complacency, fully motivated and committed is allowed in 2 weeks time.
With us now having Yoro, De Ligt, Maguire, Mazraoui, Heaven, Shaw, Fredricson and Kukonki at centre back I’d move Martinez when fit into midfield if Wharton can’t be got as Martinez is fantastic on the ball so offers more there than Ugarte in terms of on the ball whilst being as tenacious and steely but can also play centre back if and when needed too.
Arsenal holds that crown now.
Because a player can run forward from their position, you do know that, right?
Could have had a pen. He had that great first touch before passing to Hojlund, who didn’t take advantage. Was involved in the final goal. Sure he misplaces some passes but there’s plenty there to develop.
Point is though he’s clearly not sitting back in a flat back 5. He’s an attacking option going forward.
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Dorgu very clearly played as a wing back today, hence entering the box on multiple occasions and having chances to score and assist.
It feels odd to win 7-1 on aggregate in a European semi final, yet still feel apprehensive about the final.
Confidence must be really low in general. You would think 3-0 up at home and with Bilbao lacking their CF & Williams brothers, we could play some assertive football.
Hard to put the finger on exactly what is missing & why we don't have more control within games. I did like Yoro's runs breaking the line. We need to see more of the defenders creating overloads for the system to work. Dorgu also looked like he was getting into better positions.
Confidence must be really low in general. You would think 3-0 up at home and with Bilbao lacking their CF & Williams brothers, we could play some assertive football.
Hard to put the finger on exactly what is missing & why we don't have more control within games. I did like Yoro's runs breaking the line. We need to see more of the defenders creating overloads for the system to work. Dorgu also looked like he was getting into better positions.
Needs to get the squad motivated from the start. None of this usually business of only playing when we go a goal down
Never gonna work. Martinez is too slow and probably lacks the stamina.
Yoro got forward too and was involved in at least two of the goals, but… ‘flat back 5’
Honestly I think people don’t understand how formations literally change in attack compared to defence. They just see a formation and think that’s where they sit all game, baring the odd run here and there
Honestly I think people don’t understand how formations literally change in attack compared to defence. They just see a formation and think that’s where they sit all game, baring the odd run here and there
You really need to give your head a massive wobble fella.
Mount, Shaw and Amad showed what was missing: technical ability. Not easy to control games with 3 CBs + Ugarte + Höjlund + Dorgu. Garnacho is not strong in possession either.
The half time posts in here are so hilarious. Any opportunity. Then silence afterwards
At least one if not both midfielders try to get into the box on a consistent basis too and are deployed more as box to box midfielders rather than just sitting in front of the back 3. It was the same in his last season at Sporting
I have to see what the idiots are saying.
There were a couple of times in the first half where he was between the midfield and defensive lines and he was just popping it back rather than turning and going forward. All his best qualities can be utilised deeper, I think we see it more often now with Amad back.
No
You're so right. It was so obvious that you'd have to be hoping for a miracle for it turn around.
You’re really having a mare tonight
Yep. Angelo stiller and a few others come to mind too. We need a player like that unless we really commit to Bruno at CM
For me a lot of it is mental and a bit of it is personnel.
Of course Amad improves us. Of course Bruno deep improves build up. Of course Amorim and his shit line ups (Dalot and Maz at WBs, even today with Case, Ugarte and Maz) has to have some blame.
But for me, unless we're absolutely forced to take risks on the ball we just think too long and play extremely safe. On buildup, the ball barely ever goes from a CB / WB / GK inside to the CMs. The CMs never take any risks, they just send it right back where it came from.
Have the bravery to pass or receive and turn and play it forward. That bravery only seems to come when we're losing and it's getting too embarrassing or when we're winning so convincingly that making errors is no big deal. And we look so good when that risk is actually taken.
All of the risks we took and all the build up feck ups affect these guys I know but sometimes you need to move beyond the PTSD and believe in yourself and believe in your teammates
Thanks for such insight, really added to the debate...
He’s right though.
Describing our set up as a ‘flat back 5’ just shows you either have no clue what you’re talking about, or you just have to throw a dig in to the manager in any way you can, even if it makes you look like an idiot. I’m not sure what’s worse frankly.
Wonderful subs tonight, we got the best version of Mount and then the two players with arguably the best technique at the club. I know a lot about spanish teams but I hadn't ever heard of one of the bilbao subs. Ultimately, there was a huge gulf in class between the two sides, but what part of this game showed is we still have too many fragile mentalities and I think it stems from almost anticipating mistakes from onana, maguire and lindelof (the latter two had some proper horror moments tonight). If we can keep Shaw fit, then Yoro as the RCB should make maguire be at his best since he isnt panicking about what lindelof might do. We scored two goals after he went off, and almost had a contender for team goal of the season if Amass had just shot, yes the goals killed the game but you can immediately see the difference some genuine quality makes.
Yeah, I'm really not bothered if I'm honest.
I know what I saw, as I was at the game and when Bilbao had possession in our half it was a flat back 5 and we used Dorgu as an outlet to spring a counter and transition into a 4v4, with Bruno tucking in centrally.
You must have been watching the wrong game with Phil, must have been watching the first leg, I don't know and honest, I don't give a shit as we're in the final.
So it was a flat back 5 but Dorgu was the main focal point of our attack. Did you not read that back before you clicked "post reply"? You're literally arguing with yourself.
Credit where it's due, the subs changed the game. We will need to play a lot better than that to beat Spurs in the final though.
Nice input
Think it's pretty clear that we just don't have the passing quality needed within the team. Very few players are confident both in their ability to fire accurate progressive passes through the lines, as well as receive said passes under pressure. Yoro, Bruno, and occassionally Maguire are really the only ones that do it regularly of that starting XI tonight. The rest don't trust themselves as much (for good reason), and thus you get a much more labored build up especially early in games when intensity and pressing is at it's peak.
You’re describing our defensive position. Yes, we defend with 5 back. That’s the beauty of having wingbacks. But you realise we transition into an attacking formation when we go forward right? Hence Dorgu having so much of the ball in the attacking third? Hence Yoro getting forward and being involved in 2 of the goals? You understand the formation isn’t static for 90 minutes?
I think there’s a bit of truth to both sides of the arguments. Bilbao had us pinned most of the time so we were in a flat back 5 defensively. And this has been our achilles most of the season. Teams are playing wingers high and wide, pushing our WBs into a back 5, and therefore outnumbering us all over the park in the build up, which just puts us under more pressure. I think we can agree it’s something for Ruben to overcome.
Having said that, perhaps the answer is right there for him. Play more offensive players at WB and give them something to think about, don’t let them freely push a winger up with no thought of what’s coming the other way. I have a lot of sympathy for Amorim because I’m sure he knows this, but he’s simply not had the players at his disposal to force the opposition to reconsider their shape.
Another thing he does do now and then is go 442 with one wide CB moving to fullback and one WB then pushing ahead to wide midfield. It allows us to press better and we’ve had some joy using this. But again, I think it didn’t work tonight because instead of Mazraoui moving to RB, we had Lindelof or Yoro on the other side, and it just didn’t have the same fluidity.
Above all else though, I’m just very confident that if we start adding players with the quality, pace and power of Matheus Cunha, then we’ll be considerably better next season. A fit Amad too will make this whole system work so much better. It’s hard to try to force your opponent to respect you tactically when you have such little threat in attack as we do currently.
Had Spurs been the team to have beaten Athletic 7:1, fans would be saying we’ll have to play a lot better to beat them in the final.
We win 7:1, we’ll have to play a lot better to beat them.
Spurs are at the same level as us at present and we have as much chance as them in the final.
Lighten up people.
We win 7:1, we’ll have to play a lot better to beat them.
Spurs are at the same level as us at present and we have as much chance as them in the final.
Lighten up people.