No Europe - A blessing?

steeeb

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Being out of Europe is the perfect time to trim down the squad massively, which should be the number one priority now and is probably a blessing and I think is what Amorim wanted to do a few Europa rounds ago but then obviously with getting to the final saw the obvious positives in winning it also.

We should look at getting rid of:
Lindelof
Evans
Shaw
Malacia - obligation to buy from PSV

Casemiro - If Saudi will make an offer, cash in as he's not good enough for PL football but can still do it elsewhere.
Eriksen - contact expires
Garnacho - Not suited to his system, terrible finishing - would turn it on in Spain or something though and potentially get a good fee for him
Anthony - we should get a good fee
Rashford - should get a good fee
Sancho.- just need him out of the club

Hojlund - Not good enough, but probably can't get a good offer, perhaps a loan and reassess the year after


If we manage to get rid of all the above, it massively massively reduces our wage bill and would do wonders for FFP. It's getting rid of 11 players, basically a 'whole team'. This is exactly what Amorim did at Sporting - a fire sale of everyone out


We'd be left with the following:
Onana - Ideally we should try sell him and get someone else in but not sure if we'd get the offers or not

Yoro
Martinez
De Ligt
Maguire
Heaven

Dorgu
Amad
Amass
Mazraoui
Leon

Ugarte
Bruno
Collyer

Mainoo
Mount
Zirkzee
Obi

If we bring in Cunha, another midfielder and a striker the squad is big enough to cope just with the PL and we'd be transformed, we'd have time to work with the players we have and we should be able to afford a good midfielder and striker since we'd be shipping out so many players and getting OK fees for Anthony, Rashford and Garnacho.

Then that is a good basis to build on next year with brining in a few more top players, or also bringing in young prospects this year along with the above.

The thing is, if we had Champions League football next year, ironically, it would be more difficult, there's no way we could get rid of 11 players without bringing many players in to give squad depth, which simply wouldn't be possible - we'd have no choice but to try hang on to some players.


Shame to see so many turning on Amorim. We've gone from being generally awful and creating nothing at all (because we were a poor counter attacking team being asked to actually play football for a change) and lost heads to actually 'somewhat' controlling games and creating some chances but it's obvious to everyone we have a problem scoring goals and also making some mistakes giving the ball away in silly situations which again is more of an issue because we aren't scoring goals - once the scoring issue is sorted with a new striker, midfielder and cunha then we'll look a completely different team.

Whilst not winning a final against Spurs is embarrassing, I do actually think it's a blessing and will help us get back to where we want to be quicker than keeping around players because they're needed for depth but still shouldn't be here.
 
I know you’re attempting to be somewhat balanced in your assessment (and you’ve made a decent attempt) but the record under Amorim (results) is so damning that it will be criminal to keep him on.

Even with the average players we have, we shouldn’t be losing at this rate. A manager that can’t adapt is a manager that can’t progress.
 
DRJosh said:
I know you’re attempting to be somewhat balanced in your assessment (and you’ve made a decent attempt) but the record under Amorim (results) is so damning that it will be criminal to keep him on.

Even with the average players we have, we shouldn’t be losing at this rate. A manager that can’t adapt is a manager that can’t progress.
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ETH adapted and it made things worse, he saw that he couldn't implement his philosophy or style with the players he had, and not doing eventually made us worse.

Papering over cracks it what got us in to this mess.
 
DRJosh said:
I know you’re attempting to be somewhat balanced in your assessment (and you’ve made a decent attempt) but the record under Amorim (results) is so damning that it will be criminal to keep him on.

Even with the average players we have, we shouldn’t be losing at this rate. A manager that can’t adapt is a manager that can’t progress.
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Great. Thank you for adding to this conversation when there are so many other places you can say this.
 
No it’s not a blessing. If things stay the same it’s not like all this extra time they have will make this team get Champions League football next year. The squad needs to be reduced and we have a terrible first 11 as it is.
 
Uncle Mainoo said:
No it’s not a blessing. If things stay the same it’s not like all this extra time they have will make this team get Champions League football next year. The squad needs to be reduced and we have a terrible first 11 as it is.
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We can't reduce the squad with also playing in the Champions League however (Europa/Conference would be even worse). This is the reason many smaller teams that get in to Europe fail so easily, there squad depth isn't good enough and they end up with tired or injured players. Having no Europe allows us to reduce the squad without having to get so many players in and then build up a core team and add to it in following years.
 
steeeb said:
ETH adapted and it made things worse, he saw that he couldn't implement his philosophy or style with the players he had, and not doing eventually made us worse.

Papering over cracks it what got us in to this mess.
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ETH was clueless in how to adapt. His flavour of adapting meant allowing our midfield to get completely run over. we’ve just been so bad at recruiting the right manager and players.
 
steeeb said:
Forgot Dalot! He should also be gone, but I feel won't because Amorim likes him and he has a good injury record.
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He's not going anywhere, I don't think Casemiro and Shaw are either. There is a chance Hojlund goes out on loan but if we only get in one striker then I doubt it. Garnacho may well be sold but also could well stay.

So if we're going to bring in say 4 (which we definitely need if we're going to improve) , that's a squad of around 23-25 players... doesn't really seem like a trimmed down squad to me.
 
As much as I hate to admit it, I suspect Bruno might be off as well given his comments, and as last night proved, he's not really the solution to our inability to control the midfield. Which then leaves a huge hole in terms of seniority in the squad. I don't think there's much positive to take from not being in Europe.
 
It's only a blessing if you sort out recruitment and player departures.

It's beneficial for me as I'll spend less money watching these feckwits next season.
 
I like to be in the champions league
 
steeeb said:
We can't reduce the squad with also playing in the Champions League however (Europa/Conference would be even worse). This is the reason many smaller teams that get in to Europe fail so easily, there squad depth isn't good enough and they end up with tired or injured players. Having no Europe allows us to reduce the squad without having to get so many players in and then build up a core team and add to it in following years.
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I get it. But which part of my point—where I said the starting XI is crap as it is(16th in the league crap)—went over your head?

Now we’re going to reduce this already poor squad even further and hope that the few new players we bring in turn out to be better. We’ve seen how that plays out every summer for the past four years—maybe even longer. If you make a case for Smalling being better than Maguire, that It clearly doesn’t work.

We need to get back to basics. Develop a proper footballing philosophy. It’s not that hard—we’ve had two legendary coaches who showcased it brilliantly. Then, start signing players who actually fit that philosophy.

Right now, the squad is a mismatched mess. And once again, we’ve hired a coach who represents everything this club is not. Flying fullbacks, creative CB’s.
 
Amorim is starting to sound like someone who would use CL games as an excuse for not playing well. "no time to train".
 
DRJosh said:
I know you’re attempting to be somewhat balanced in your assessment (and you’ve made a decent attempt) but the record under Amorim (results) is so damning that it will be criminal to keep him on.

Even with the average players we have, we shouldn’t be losing at this rate. A manager that can’t adapt is a manager that can’t progress.
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Ye but I remember a lot of our fans saying they wouldn’t be as bothered with losing games aslong as we see somewhat of controlling football. We dominated spurs. They didn’t even have a shot 2nd half and only 3 all game. That’s exactly what Amorim wants going forward. We just don’t have the players to finish of chances
 
It's not a blessing, but now that it's happened we may as well focus on the positives that are there. We should be able to operate with a smaller squad (if we can manage to sell enough), hopefully have less injuries, and we will have more time for proper training throughout the season.

It's not good, but hopefully at least some good can come out of it.
 
We should have a bit of advantage over every single team challenging for the top 7 next season as there all in Europe next year. We have a full week so should be fresher
 
Love the fact someone is trying to find positives from situation and I commend the OP but the financial impact of no Europe is a major issue and then there’s the fact we’ve only won 9 points in the league since December under Amorim so when you look at how Amorim can’t get anything out of the squad and the squad can’t adapt to Amorim’s system whilst we’ll struggle with recruitment due to funds and have a squad with zero confidence in themselves and likely the coach it could get even worse next season for us.
 
We desperately needed CL football. First of all, it means a lot of income, secondly no CL football means some ambitious players would reject us. Whether anyone likes it or not, CL is the most prestigious, important competition in club football.

Then they don't want to play for us, only the European competitions.

So is that surprising if a quality player does not want to play for a club which struggle for 10+ years, could possibly finish in 17th place and which are malfunctioning in every level? Poor ownership, poor management, poor squad? CL football can be a a huge motivation, as i think unfortunately the significance of the name "Manchester United" fades slowly.
 
There is no blessing in being out of Europe and I don't see any blessing in playing fewer matches. Actual football games make players better not spending time in training, especially our training sessions, God knows what we do during them because nothing can be seen on the pitch.
Top teams play 60-70 games per season as top players do and no one complains about that.

Getting rid of half of the squad is risky, with a thin squad we might really be asking for trouble next season, I don't what to say the R word.
Also if the Amorim project collapses during next season and a new manager comes, we should at least be able to offer him a decent squad in terms of numbers, you might never know which players start playing better.
Other than Amad, Bruno and Yoro all the others are expandable anyway imo but we can't keep a squad of 3 players.
 
The only thing that got us all through this season was the Thursday games. It gave us all less time to be depressed over the utter dog shit we saw on the Satruday/Sunday. Next season could be worse. It'll drag only having the league and cup games (which we could be knocked out of early)
 
pauldyson1uk said:
No , we need European football , not only the money but with no PL football , the players we want don’t come.
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Do we want to sign players who only want to play for United if it suits their ego of playing Champions League football?
 
Big Andy said:
Do we want to sign players who only want to play for United if it suits their ego of playing Champions League football?
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Good players are competitive and want to play for the highest honours. And United have neither the prestige nor the track record of clubs like Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and other European giants. So, excluding money, there isn't really much to entice a player to come here other than a chance for the best prizes. Players under 25 aren't even really old enough to remember when United were last relevant, especially considering that was before social media really took off.
 
Big Andy said:
Do we want to sign players who only want to play for United if it suits their ego of playing Champions League football?
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Yeah, for me it's just the money we're missing out on. You can attract good players without champions league football, and if no CL is a deal breaker for a player then we don't that player.

It's the money that's the killer considering the scale of the rebuild this team needs.
 
DJ_21 said:
We should have a bit of advantage over every single team challenging for the top 7 next season as there all in Europe next year. We have a full week so should be fresher
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We’re one of the biggest clubs in Europe and will be back on top next season.
 
Honestly, it is the best thing that could have happened to us. Obviously not in financial terms. But as Amorim has stated, he is going to have to build a young squad up from the ground. If they are going over to Italy and Germany on Wednesday nights and and getting turned over by seasoned CL sides, what does that do for momentum? Losing games completely shatters your confidence, the clips on social media, the worldwide ridicule and outside noise, then 3 days later, you play a PL team who have had 7 days off.

I am happy for Amorim to burn it all down, and start again with a young, hungry squad and a five year plan to build a new identity and let the momentum take you on a journey.

If the last decade has taught us anything, it is that paying way over the odds for marquee signings, just to try and scrape into the CL is not a sustainable model. It unravels pretty quickly after a defeat, then the momentum goes the other way. And we are into the current death spiral.

I don't think that throwing these lot into the CL would have helped us one bit.
 
It's a blessing for my private life, no regular Tue/Wed frustration is going to have a positive impact in my health and well-being.

Also, they could go down next season if bottom 3 level next year is better than this year so in this sense it's good.
 
Imagine waiting all week to watch us slowly pass it around amongst our back 5 then play it back for Onana to boot it long
 
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