Ange Postecoglou | Reports suggest he will be sacked

He won the trophy by selling his soul and and abandoning the football he wants to play, the right thing to do but hardly sustainable,.and as soon as he goes back to Ange-ball they'll be a good watch but still useless overall again.

I hope they keep him, but the sensible thing to do is to sack him.
 
africanspur said:
Thanks a lot mate.

It’s difficult to say really. I’ll be honest and say the football and results this season have been beyond comprehension. Over 20 league losses in a season is crazy for a club of our resources. Yes there have been ridiculous injuries but the general trend of Ange in the league has not been good.

Im not so sure that’s going to change dramatically.

Still, to fire the manager who’s won our 1st trophy in 17 years and our biggest for 40 years….thats a tough sell. The players seem to love him too and I worry about the effect on morale if we did fire him.

Personally I probably wouldn’t sack him now. But I’m not a particularly ruthless person.

Also some journalists have been genuinely embarrassing I think. Being called a clown by a journalist who’s never achieved in the game when you’ve won trophies at every job you’ve been at must be incredibly grating.
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Yeah Levy will be thinking that kind of decision would probably rattle fans, especially if another manager comes in and struggles initally. Ten Hag got preseason and few months after Fa Cup win, Ange should get the same at least. If league results continue like this season then he'll be gone and it's probably the same with Amorim.
 
adexkola said:
More than ever I'm convinced that people who use "pragmatism" have no idea what they are talking about.

All managers want to win and prioritize winning. They may not be right at times in their approach but just because they don't set up in a Brexit 4-4-2 formation does not mean they are not looking to win.
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Why do you call it “Brexit 442”?
 
SilentWitness said:
You don't remember it later, but you remember it now and when the celebrations end in the summer and you start thinking about next season.
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Why?

You want to finish top 4 or 5 to get into the UCL, they achieved that outcome anyway.

They also achieved a European trophy.

Their league position is now completely insignificant. They have their players for again, a summer to build and rectify any issues they had this season and a lot of money from their Europa win and UCL qualification. You’re delusional if you think Spurs fans are sitting at home stressing about league positions now.

What a platform they have now to progress and next year should be focussed on the league position. The trophy wait has ended.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
He won the trophy by selling his soul and and abandoning the football he wants to play, the right thing to do but hardly sustainable,.and as soon as he goes back to Ange-ball they'll be a good watch but still useless overall again.

I hope they keep him, but the sensible thing to do is to sack him.
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He done what he had to.

He faced a team who are spineless in attack and knew they wouldn’t concede and they didn’t.

You can throw narratives about close calls but the end result was a clean sheet and victory.
 
Big Ange is now pretty much Australia's best coach in a big international sport.

League's in Japan and Scotland, Europa League and the AFC cup in 2015.
 
MayosNoun said:
Why?

You want to finish top 4 or 5 to get into the UCL, they achieved that outcome anyway.

They also achieved a European trophy.

Their league position is now completely insignificant. They have their players for again, a summer to build and rectify any issues they had this season and a lot of money from their Europa win and UCL qualification. You’re delusional if you think Spurs fans are sitting at home stressing about league positions now.

What a platform they have now to progress and next year should be focussed on the league position. The trophy wait has ended.
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It's not insignificant since Ange was the manager that oversaw the campaign and the campaign in the previous season where they completely fell off after a strong start.
 
I don't know why the talk of "he changed his system" being used as a negative. It takes balls to go against your philosophy and that should be applauded.

So many managers lose their jobs sticking to a system.

Ex Luton manager Rob Edwards was a perfect case.

Wanted to play 3 at the back. Then we lost all our CBs to injury and only had 1 CB fit and 1 young CB. He carried on playing 3 at the back with a right winger playing CB rather than going 4 at the back.

We kept conceding and losing games and it ultimately cost him his job and cost us a place in the Championship.
 
Powderfinger said:
The smart move would be to sack him but I can't say the available replacements are that appealing unless Inzaghi is willing to leave Inter, which seems unlikely.
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I can see them going for Andoni Iraola. I think he's taken Bournemouth as far as he can and it sounds like they are going to lose a lot of their best players this summer.
 
golden_blunder said:
Why do you call it “Brexit 442”?
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Because he's trying to peddle this narrative that anyone that doesn't like Ange's football is a Dyche fanboy, and is less enlightened than him.
Dirty Schwein said:
I don't know why the talk of "he changed his system" being used as a negative. It takes balls to go against your philosophy and that should be applauded.

So many managers lose their jobs sticking to a system.

Ex Luton manager Rob Edwards was a perfect case.

Wanted to play 3 at the back. Then we lost all our CBs to injury and only had 1 CB fit and 1 young CB. He carried on playing 3 at the back with a right winger playing CB rather than going 4 at the back.

We kept conceding and losing games and it ultimately cost him his job and cost us a place in the Championship.
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All things being equal, I'd agree with you on the bolded - I think the issue is that a lot of this conversation is driven by the narrative between Ange and the media. He's been married to his system and his way of playing quite consistenly (except for the last few ties in Europe) and has shown very little flexibility, which he's been called out for by journalists and in response he's been extremely rude and condescending in interviews. If anything, the fact he's won a trophy by adapting and dropping his rigid approach kinda vindicates the media that had been calling him out, and the fact he's being arrogant about the victory, and having an "I told you so" moment, could be a bit grating for some.

I don't fundamentally care, the media are bastards anyway, and it doesn't change my view on him that he's a nasty piece of work, but I can understand why it's worthy of discussion.
 
MaMa given red said:
I can see them going for Andoni Iraola. I think he's taken Bournemouth as far as he can and it sounds like they are going to lose a lot of their best players this summer.
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I hope not. I want him to stay there and be out back up in case RA doesn't work out next season.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
Because he's trying to peddle this narrative that anyone that doesn't like Ange's football is a Dyche fanboy, and is less enlightened than him.

All things being equal, I'd agree with you on the bolded - I think the issue is that a lot of this conversation is driven by the narrative between Ange and the media. He's been married to his system and his way of playing quite consistenly (except for the last few ties in Europe) and has shown very little flexibility, which he's been called out for by journalists and in response he's been extremely rude and condescending in interviews. If anything, the fact he's won a trophy by adapting and dropping his rigid approach kinda vindicates the media that had been calling him out, and the fact he's being arrogant about the victory, and having an "I told you so" moment, could be a bit grating for some.

I don't fundamentally care, the media are bastards anyway, and it doesn't change my view on him that he's a nasty piece of work, but I can understand why it's worthy of discussion.
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Ahh I didn't know that tbf. I usually only watch the games etc.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
Ahh I didn't know that tbf. I usually only watch the games etc.
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And you're probably better off because of it :lol:

Ultimately it doesn't matter, Ange has gotten the last laugh and can rub their noses in it, but considering how disrespectful he's been with journalists throughout the year, and his general demeanour, I can understand it.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
I don't know why the talk of "he changed his system" being used as a negative. It takes balls to go against your philosophy and that should be applauded.

So many managers lose their jobs sticking to a system.
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It's partly because neither Spurs nor United were very good in the final.

If United had performed very well but Spurs had an incredible defensive performance then he'd get more plaudits. But it was more like Spurs were OK defensively against a team that struggled to create much anyway.

It was like people joked before the final.... a stoppable force versus a movable object.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
It's partly because neither Spurs nor United were very good in the final.

If United had performed very well but Spurs had an incredible defensive performance then he'd get more plaudits. But it was more like Spurs were OK defensively against a team that struggled to create much anyway.

It was like people joked before the final.... a stoppable force versus a movable object.
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I'd give him some credit for showing some versatility and playing a completely different style with a far deeper line.

I don't rate him particularly highly but he changed his style and won the match so deserves a bit of credit.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
I'd give him some credit for showing some versatility and playing a completely different style with a far deeper line.

I don't rate him particularly highly but he changed his style and won the match so deserves a bit of credit.
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They were crap and got a lucky OG.
Luckily for them, they faced and even crapper team.
 
Top_Bins said:
They were crap and got a lucky OG.
Luckily for them, they faced and even crapper team.
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They weren't great but they played what was in front of them and he adjusted his tactics to beat us while missing his 2 most creative players by far.

He did well and deserves to feel proud of the win.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
They weren't great but they played what was in front of them and he adjusted his tactics to beat us while missing his 2 most creative players by far.

He did well and deserves to feel proud of the win.
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They played like a Mourinho team.
Fair play, they won but they were awful.
 
I am pleased for the Spurs fans, in all honesty they deserved something. As many have said, Ange getting plaudits as if this was a masterclass is a bit surreal. As much as I can pick some holes in the approach from Amorim, the United players on that pitch categorically dominated Spurs and just didn't get the rub of the green.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Who do you support and when did you start supporting them?
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I've supported United since I was a child.
There is no hypocrisy in what I said...I value entertainment more than trophies.
It's more important to me that United play good football.
If I wanted to watch a robotic team win everything, I'd watch the cheats.
 
If Ange had stuck to his all out attack with none of his creative players fit, no Maddison, Kulusevski or Bergval, which would have most likely resulted in a loss. He would be getting absolutely hammered on here and in the media, about not adapting his tactics to suit the situation. How he has no plan B, how playing with that one style will get you places in farmers leagues but not in high level competition. How Angeball has been found out, etc, etc.

He has adapted his tactics to suit the situation, won a European cup and now the narrative is he has abandoned his philosophy and become a soulless hypocrite. :lol:
 
Top_Bins said:
I've supported United since I was a child.
There is no hypocrisy in what I said...I value entertainment more than trophies.
It's more important to me that United play good football.
If I wanted to watch a robotic team win everything, I'd watch the cheats.
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But United have, many times, adapted tactics and played defensively when needed. We've had many periods playing much less offensively than Ange does with a weaker team.

Ange is far more attacking/entertaining overall than almost any coach in history (hence the irony of him acting like he's proved everyone wrong, when he's actually just done what everyone said he should do) which is why they are so low in the table because it's a ridiculous way to play. But if you watch football for entertainment, not trophies, Spurs will give you both this season - mad games, goals at each end, all out offence and then 2 or 3 knock outs cup games where he sat in and got vital wins.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
But United have, many times, adapted tactics and played defensively when needed. We've had many periods playing much less offensively than Ange does with a weaker team.

Ange is far more attacking/entertaining overall than almost any coach in history (hence the irony of him acting like he's proved everyone wrong, when he's actually just done what everyone said he should do) which is why they are so low in the table because it's a ridiculous way to play. But if you watch football for entertainment, not trophies, Spurs will give you both this season - mad games, goals at each end, all out offence and then 2 or 3 knock outs cup games where he sat in and got vital wins.
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My original comment wasn't about them playing tactics to win, it is that they played poorly and won by a fluke OG.
They are a poor a team as United and neither team deserved CL football.
 
Top_Bins said:
My original comment wasn't about them playing tactics to win, it is that they played poorly and won by a fluke OG.
They are a poor a team as United and neither team deserved CL football.
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That's silly. They qualified for a tournament where the prize has always included qualification to the Champions League. They played through that entire tournament and one of them won it. Of course they deserve it.
 
Top_Bins said:
I watch football to be entertained, not vicariously revel in trophy wins.
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Spurs have scored over 100 goals this season in all competitions, and are widely acclaimed as being one of the most entertaining teams in the league, often to their own detriment. The fact that they didn't play so expansively in one final, mostly because all their playmakers were injured, is hardly a stick to beat them with.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
That's silly. They qualified for a tournament where the prize has always included qualification to the Champions League. They played through that entire tournament and one of them won it. Of course they deserve it.
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To be a pedant, the prize hasn't always included CL qualification. That's been happening for about a decade.

Also worth remembering that the format of the CL changed this year to a) allow more teams to enter and b) remove the parachute into the EL knockouts.

Both of those changes have the potential to weaken the Europa League, and this year's final was a really terrible advert for it retaining a CL spot as a prize.

Both us and Spurs were absolutely terrible and played out an abject match, won by a fluke own goal, with neither side really showing any sort of quality at either end of the pitch.
 
Alex99 said:
To be a pedant, the prize hasn't always included CL qualification. That's been happening for about a decade.

Also worth remembering that the format of the CL changed this year to a) allow more teams to enter and b) remove the parachute into the EL knockouts.

Both of those changes have the potential to weaken the Europa League, and this year's final was a really terrible advert for it retaining a CL spot as a prize.

Both us and Spurs were absolutely terrible and played out an abject match, won by a fluke own goal, with neither side really showing any sort of quality at either end of the pitch.
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None of that matters. They entered a tournament where it's well established that the prize on offer is Champions League qualification. They travelled all over Europe and won the competition. Of course they deserve it.

If Lazio and Bilbao were playing out the final then no one would have mentioned it. This has only become a narrative because Utd and Spurs are two teams that opposition fans love to poke at for different reasons.
 
Alex99 said:
To be a pedant, the prize hasn't always included CL qualification. That's been happening for about a decade.

Also worth remembering that the format of the CL changed this year to a) allow more teams to enter and b) remove the parachute into the EL knockouts.

Both of those changes have the potential to weaken the Europa League, and this year's final was a really terrible advert for it retaining a CL spot as a prize.

Both us and Spurs were absolutely terrible and played out an abject match, won by a fluke own goal, with neither side really showing any sort of quality at either end of the pitch.
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The final was definitely a terrible spectacle and both teams have had terrible domestic seasons but from a quick glance, only 2 teams dropping down from the CL have won the EL in the past 10 seasons.

This season, Lazio were knocked out by Bodo but are finishing 6th in Serie A. Bilbao are playing in the CL next season. Eintracht Frankfurt and Ajax likewise. Roma and Porto the EL again.

I'm not sure a one off match counts as an advert for it not retaining the CL spot.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
None of that matters. They entered a tournament where it's well established that the prize on offer is Champions League qualification. They travelled all over Europe and won the competition. Of course they deserve it.

If Lazio and Bilbao were playing out the final then no one would have mentioned it. This has only become a narrative because Utd and Spurs are two teams that opposition fans love to poke at for different reasons.
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But Lazio and Bilbao weren't there. The 16th and 17th placed sides in the Premier League were, and played out a match exactly as you'd expect the teams 16th and 17th in the Premier League would (i.e. shite).

I don't begrudge Spurs the prize. I'm just saying it was a bad advert for it being the prize.

As I said, I was also being a pedant and pointing out that it hasn't "always" been the prize. It's still relatively new, when you consider how long the UEFA Cup was around before the rebrand, and while I don't think it's going anywhere, it'll be interesting to see whether this season is an outlier in terms of quality drop, or if the format changes have affected the quality of the Europa League.
 
Alex99 said:
But Lazio and Bilbao weren't there. The 16th and 17th placed sides in the Premier League were, and played out a match exactly as you'd expect the teams 16th and 17th in the Premier League would (i.e. shite).

I don't begrudge Spurs the prize. I'm just saying it was a bad advert for it being the prize.

As I said, I was also being a pedant and pointing out that it hasn't "always" been the prize. It's still relatively new, when you consider how long the UEFA Cup was around before the rebrand, and while I don't think it's going anywhere, it'll be interesting to see whether this season is an outlier in terms of quality drop, or if the format changes have affected the quality of the Europa League.
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No because they lost. One to the side Spurs brushed aside and one to us, who battered them twice.
 
africanspur said:
The final was definitely a terrible spectacle and both teams have had terrible domestic seasons but from a quick glance, only 2 teams dropping down from the CL have won the EL in the past 10 seasons.

This season, Lazio were knocked out by Bodo but are finishing 6th in Serie A. Bilbao are playing in the CL next season. Eintracht Frankfurt and Ajax likewise. Roma and Porto the EL again.

I'm not sure a one off match counts as an advert for it not retaining the CL spot.
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I think it'll be interesting to see a) how Spurs do in the CL next season, because I'm not expecting a particularly great domestic campaign and b) how the Europa League plays out in the coming years (Crystal Palace could be an interesting one next season).

I think what Spurs and United have proven this season is how far the drop off between title contenders and "the rest" is in other leagues around Europe compared to the PL.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
No because they lost. One to the side Spurs brushed aside and one to us, who battered them twice.
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As above, I think the proof there is that the drop off between title contenders and "the rest" in Europe's other top leagues is much bigger than it is in the PL.

It'll be interesting to see how Palace do in next season's Europa League.
 
SilentWitness said:
It's not insignificant since Ange was the manager that oversaw the campaign and the campaign in the previous season where they completely fell off after a strong start.
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Don’t talk nonsense.

If Everton won the Europa league this year you’d be delighted and would not care about the league position.
 
Alex99 said:
I think it'll be interesting to see a) how Spurs do in the CL next season, because I'm not expecting a particularly great domestic campaign and b) how the Europa League plays out in the coming years (Crystal Palace could be an interesting one next season).

I think what Spurs and United have proven this season is how far the drop off between title contenders and "the rest" is in other leagues around Europe compared to the PL.
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I'm almost certain we're going to stink up the CL and probably not do that well in the league (though difficult of course to do as badly as this season or estimate when we don't even know if its gonna be the same manager next week).

Haven't the Spanish sides been brushing aside English opposition on a regular basis in European competition over the past few years, title contender or no? Think it feels difficult to say there's suddenly been a big drop off this year in comparison, to the extent that a CL level Spanish team is worse than the 16th placed PL side.
 
MayosNoun said:
Don’t talk nonsense.

If Everton won the Europa league this year you’d be delighted and would not care about the league position.
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I thought the discussion was regarding Ange staying on next season or not, not just the club in general.

In the sense of Ange, then no, it isn't nonsense. He's not performed well in their league campaigns.
 
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