Adebayor or Torres, who is better?

Rowem is correct in what he is saying, why are you people building straw men?

Ol Fernando does have an excellent first touch though.

Torres is good in the air, he is also strong, Adebayor is very very good in the air, he is also very very strong. Thats not qauntum physics.

He never said that Torres wasnt strong, and wasnt very good in the air, but how many goals has Torres scored with his head this season? Certainly not as many as Adebayor, he scored an excellent goal with his head recently, albeit a free chance, but you wouldnt put his headng ability in the same category as Adebayors, simply because he hasnt shown it as often which is the only evidence, as supporters, that we possess.

We know Torres is strong, like we know Adebayor is quick, but neither are prominent areas of their game that they excel (in comparison to other players in world football) at. Reverse the qualities and you would have to say...

To be a top striker, scoring that many goals, there wont be many, if any, weaknesses in your game so i am talking comparitively where the margins are probably very very small.

Anyways, i would prefer Torres. Acceleration and his ability to split the defence with a pass does it for me. I always think he is capable of doing something, unless he is in Ferdinands pocket of course.
 
united.7 said:
He never said that Torres wasnt strong, and wasnt very good in the air, but how many goals has Torres scored with his head this season? .
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Torres has scored 3 headed goals that I can think of.
 
demapples said:
Torres has scored 3 headed goals that I can think of.
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Ok, thats a fact i could not be bothered to look up. Im not pretending to be an expert, i just think Adebayor is more of an aerial threat. Maybe his height allows him to show his heading ability more regularly than Torres, but thats the only evidence we have to go on. Both are all round fantastic players, with very few weaknesses, the margins we are talking about here are very very small.
 
united.7 said:
Ok, thats a fact i could not be bothered to look up. Im not pretending to be an expert, i just think Adebayor is more of an aerial threat. Maybe his height allows him to show his heading ability more regularly than Torres, but thats the only evidence we have to go on. Both are all round fantastic players, with very few weaknesses, the margins we are talking about here are very very small.
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I wasn't arguing that Torres is better than Adebayor in the air, merely that he wasn't poor with his head (even when compared to Adebayor).

Adebayor could well be stronger in the dep't, I don't know, but I do know I am more than happy to have Torres.
 
Rowem said:
Wtf are you on about?

Here is what I've said in a nutshell:

- Torres is smaller, less strong, and less good in the air than Adebayor.
- Torres has good pace, good control/first touch and a good finish. Those are his main abilities.
- His aerial prowess is nothing to rave about, compared to his before mentioned attributes, and in comparison to other leading strikers in the Premiership, in particular Adebayor.

If you think that any of those statements are incorrect then you're either fecking blind or retarded.
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As soon as you compared him unfavourably to Bendtner and Davies you lost any credibility you might have had.

HTH
 
united.7 said:
We know Torres is strong, like we know Adebayor is quick, but neither are prominent areas of their game that they excel (in comparison to other players in world football) at. Reverse the qualities and you would have to say...
Click to expand...

I dare, no, I double dare you to find a pacy striker who has the same kind of upper body strength as Torres.


He is strong as a bull.
 
united.7 said:
Ok, thats a fact i could not be bothered to look up. Im not pretending to be an expert, i just think Adebayor is more of an aerial threat. Maybe his height allows him to show his heading ability more regularly than Torres, but thats the only evidence we have to go on. Both are all round fantastic players, with very few weaknesses, the margins we are talking about here are very very small.
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Torres doesn't really play as a target player the same way Adebayor does, so he doesn't come up for the donkey work of winning headers as often as he is more looking to make runs to get in behind the defence.
 
M'n'M said:
As soon as you compared him unfavourably to Bendtner and Davies you lost any credibility you might have had.

HTH
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You're a retard then because you clearly didnt read what I wrote.

Bendtner and Davies are FAR superior to Torres in terms of heading and aerial ability. To argue otherwise like arguing that Tevez is better is the air than Peter Crouch. It does not mean Crouch is better than Tevez or that Bendtner is better than Torres. I can't possibly see how I could make that anymore clear, you must be absolutely retarded or you just skimmed my post and saw what you wanted to see. Or possibly you're of the opinion that Torres is better in the air than Kevin Davies or Bendtner, in which case: :lol:

demapples said:
Don't forget you also said he was poor at holding the ball up and was poor at linking up play (an absurd notion even if you are comparing him with Adebayor).
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You're possibly the most annoying person to ever have a conversation with. You try to pick holes in what I'm saying despite the fact that I have already explained them, and yet you offer no evidence to back up your opinions. Regarding any substantial point I have made you have offered no contrary opinion other than to try and argue it wasnt originally what I meant, which is ridiculous for the reasons I explained in previous posts. Now you are picking apart something else I said. The reasons for which I said this are the same as the reasons I said for everything, as I have already explained and yet you decided to look past it for whatever reason.

Holding up the ball? No, Torres is not as good as Adebayor. Torres is good with it at his feet, running at defenders. But controlling the ball in the air, with his back to goal, he's not as comfortable. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, Adebayor has made around twice as many passes as Torres. He is capable of winning the ball on his chest and bringing under control under pressure from defenders better than anyone in the league, and then can find a great pass. Torres doesn't contribute to team play as much as Adebayor in my most humble opinion. In his defence this could be because he's in a comparitively poor side*. However, more so I think he is usually looking to get in behind the defense more. He is less inclined to get involved with team build up play than Adebayor, or players in that mould. He is also more selfish than Adebayor (thats not a bad thing from a striker, but it means he offers something different, as the only bloody reason I first posted in this thread was to point out that they are two different styles of player.).

*Disclaimer: Liverpool are not a poor side. However, in comparison to Arsenal, and in terms of attacking play, Liverpool are piss poor.
 
B9 from YAWN said:
Bendter is not far superior to Torres in this regard.
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p9c.jpg


The guy is huge, has a massive leap, and a strong header. He'd win 99/100 headers against Torres.
 
Well...maybe only 98/100. I'm not convinced though, that seems a little ambitious.
 
Bender is a special player. He has the talent to become a legend like Bergkamp
 
Rowem said:
You're a retard then because you clearly didnt read what I wrote.

Bendtner and Davies are FAR superior to Torres in terms of heading and aerial ability. To argue otherwise like arguing that Tevez is better is the air than Peter Crouch. It does not mean Crouch is better than Tevez or that Bendtner is better than Torres. I can't possibly see how I could make that anymore clear, you must be absolutely retarded or you just skimmed my post and saw what you wanted to see. Or possibly you're of the opinion that Torres is better in the air than Kevin Davies or Bendtner, in which case: :lol:



You're possibly the most annoying person to ever have a conversation with. You try to pick holes in what I'm saying despite the fact that I have already explained them, and yet you offer no evidence to back up your opinions. Regarding any substantial point I have made you have offered no contrary opinion other than to try and argue it wasnt originally what I meant, which is ridiculous for the reasons I explained in previous posts. Now you are picking apart something else I said. The reasons for which I said this are the same as the reasons I said for everything, as I have already explained and yet you decided to look past it for whatever reason.

Holding up the ball? No, Torres is not as good as Adebayor. Torres is good with it at his feet, running at defenders. But controlling the ball in the air, with his back to goal, he's not as comfortable. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, Adebayor has made around twice as many passes as Torres. He is capable of winning the ball on his chest and bringing under control under pressure from defenders better than anyone in the league, and then can find a great pass. Torres doesn't contribute to team play as much as Adebayor in my most humble opinion. In his defence this could be because he's in a comparitively poor side*. However, more so I think he is usually looking to get in behind the defense more. He is less inclined to get involved with team build up play than Adebayor, or players in that mould. He is also more selfish than Adebayor (thats not a bad thing from a striker, but it means he offers something different, as the only bloody reason I first posted in this thread was to point out that they are two different styles of player.).

*Disclaimer: Liverpool are not a poor side. However, in comparison to Arsenal, and in terms of attacking play, Liverpool are piss poor.
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I read exactly what you wrote and didn't skim over everything as you had hoped. It is still probably the biggest load of tosh I have ever heard. Where do you come up with the notion that Bentner and Davies are better in the air than Torres? Just because they are taller??? Bendtner and Davies have scored a grand total of 2 goals each this season in the PL. I'll repeat it for you since you seem to think that the more you type makes it the more believable. 2 goals each! Now, considering Bolton are famous for their long ball, lumping it into the box, would you not think that Davies superior aerial ability to Torres would have resulted in him scoring more than 2 goals when playing this way? And last season he got a whopping 8 goals - wow, what an awesome player. Tim fecking Cahill leaves him trailing in his wake, let alone Torres. As for Bentner, holy moly. I'm sure he'll grow up to be a decent player but winnig balls in the air because you are tall and strong doesn't make you awesome in the air. Peter Crouch will win every ball you throw into him but he is pretty shit in the air, great for knockdowns but his actual heading ability isn't the best at all. 5ft 10 Luis Garcia was awesome in the air for a little guy.

The reason people pick apart your posts is because you ramble in the hope that if you put all your thoughts down then one of them will make sense - all you end up doing is going round in circles contradicting yourself.

For the record I think that Adebayor is a fantastic player and I am not comparing the 2. Just picking apart your idiotic notion that Torres is worse in the air than Bentner and Davies and all the others you cared to mention.
 
I read exactly what you wrote and didn't skim over everything as you had hoped.
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I was only hoping for your sakes, because otherwise I feared I would have to dump you into the retard category. I did, the door is closed, and the key is turned.

Where do you come up with the notion that Bentner and Davies are better in the air than Torres? Just because they are taller???
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No, I see it with my eyes. They cause all sorts of hassle to defenders at corners/crosses/long balls, win numerous headers, either attempts on goal, or flick ons, knock downs, whatever.

Bendtner and Davies have scored a grand total of 2 goals each this season in the PL.
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Davies: He was the focus point of Bolton's succesful long ball tactics under Allardyce last couple seasons. He caused defenders all sorts of problems and grabbed a few decent goals, vast majority headers. When Anelka came in he had a different role...he was still the focus point of their long balls/crosses/corners, but he wasnt the main goal scoring threat. He still linked up pretty well though, and won important knock downs for Anelka and co. This season Bolton have been a mess. Judging his aerial ability is ridiculous. You accuse me of not watching Torres, but you have clearly judged Davies by one stat alone. That's ridiculous. Watch any Bolton game and he will win far more aerial contests than Torres.

Bendtner: He has played 1/5 the amount of minutes as Torres in the league (470 to Torres' 2000). He has 2 goals and 3 assists, totalling 5 goals created, around 1 per 100 minutes. That is roughly the same as Torres' goals created tally. He is a huge threat in the air, as proven by a pretty magnificent leaping header against Spurs.

Tim fecking Cahill leaves him trailing in his wake, let alone Torres.
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Tim Cahill is brilliant at heading. What's your point? He also plays for a better team, who create better chances for him.

Cahill's headed goals rely on his positioning and timing of his runs. He is brilliant at it.

However, in terms of overall game play (which was largely what I have been focusing on thus far), Cahill is worse aerially than Davies/Bendtner. If Cahill had his back to goal, closely marked by a centre back, recieving long balls, he would be pretty ineffective.

Peter Crouch will win every ball you throw into him but he is pretty shit in the air, great for knockdowns but his actual heading ability isn't the best at all. 5ft 10 Luis Garcia was awesome in the air for a little guy.
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How do knockdowns not count as "actual heading ability"?

What on earth are you describing aerial ability as? The number of headers scored and nothing else?

Let me put it this way, if Adebayor/Davies/Bendnter/Torres were all in the same team, all in the box waiting for a corner, who do you think the corner taker would aim for? Torres would be fourth on the list, and would win the least.

Players like Torres and Cahill are good finishers. They're good finishers with their feet and their heads. But they're not better in the air than the various targetmen, because they simply won't win as many headers. Scholes is another short guy who is a great finisher with his head aswell as his feet, but he wont win many headers from corners, and he isnt going to chest down a long ball whilst holding off a centre back, and he isnt going to outjump a centre back if they are both jumping from a standing positon. Whilst they are decent at heading, they are not of great aerial use to the team in the majority of situations.

Back to Adebayor vs. Torres. I'm sure if you put Torres on the end of a cross then he will have a good chance of burying it. But his overall aerial ability, compared to Adebayor and the likes, is far, far less. It's plain to see that Adebayor uses his aerial ability alot more. Adebayor will win lots of knock downs, manage to control the ball with his chest, as well as score headers from crosses. This creates two vastly opposing roles for the two players. Which, I think you will find is my original fecking point in my first post in this thread.

The reason people pick apart your posts is because you ramble in the hope that if you put all your thoughts down then one of them will make sense - all you end up doing is going round in circles contradicting yourself.
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Examples, please. How are you tearing my posts apart? Every post you guys have attacked me in, you have not given any substantial argument against what I have said. Time and time again I have torn all of your arguments to shreds, and you just reply in a general manner, with either no specifics or no relevant specifics. Give me an example of where I have contradicted myself.
 
Torres is better simply because he's a far better finisher. A lot of decent strikers could score over 20 goals in that Arsenal team, they create such a huge amount of chances.

Getting the amount Torres has got in the Liverpool shirt on the other hand .. is a far more difficult task, even with the brilliance of Dirk Kuyt behind you.
 
cina said:
Torres is better simply because he's a far better finisher. A lot of decent strikers could score over 20 goals in that Arsenal team, they create such a huge amount of chances.

Getting the amount Torres has got in the Liverpool shirt on the other hand .. is a far more difficult task, even with the brilliance of Dirk Kuyt behind you.
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I'm afraid not.

Arsenal: Goals for - 57
Liverpool: Goals for - 53
 
Rowem said:
I was only hoping for your sakes, because otherwise I feared I would have to dump you into the retard category. I did, the door is closed, and the key is turned.



No, I see it with my eyes. They cause all sorts of hassle to defenders at corners/crosses/long balls, win numerous headers, either attempts on goal, or flick ons, knock downs, whatever.



Davies: He was the focus point of Bolton's succesful long ball tactics under Allardyce last couple seasons. He caused defenders all sorts of problems and grabbed a few decent goals, vast majority headers. When Anelka came in he had a different role...he was still the focus point of their long balls/crosses/corners, but he wasnt the main goal scoring threat. He still linked up pretty well though, and won important knock downs for Anelka and co. This season Bolton have been a mess. Judging his aerial ability is ridiculous. You accuse me of not watching Torres, but you have clearly judged Davies by one stat alone. That's ridiculous. Watch any Bolton game and he will win far more aerial contests than Torres.

Bendtner: He has played 1/5 the amount of minutes as Torres in the league (470 to Torres' 2000). He has 2 goals and 3 assists, totalling 5 goals created, around 1 per 100 minutes. That is roughly the same as Torres' goals created tally. He is a huge threat in the air, as proven by a pretty magnificent leaping header against Spurs.



Tim Cahill is brilliant at heading. What's your point? He also plays for a better team, who create better chances for him.

Cahill's headed goals rely on his positioning and timing of his runs. He is brilliant at it.

However, in terms of overall game play (which was largely what I have been focusing on thus far), Cahill is worse aerially than Davies/Bendtner. If Cahill had his back to goal, closely marked by a centre back, recieving long balls, he would be pretty ineffective.



How do knockdowns not count as "actual heading ability"?

What on earth are you describing aerial ability as? The number of headers scored and nothing else?

Let me put it this way, if Adebayor/Davies/Bendnter/Torres were all in the same team, all in the box waiting for a corner, who do you think the corner taker would aim for? Torres would be fourth on the list, and would win the least.

Players like Torres and Cahill are good finishers. They're good finishers with their feet and their heads. But they're not better in the air than the various targetmen, because they simply won't win as many headers. Scholes is another short guy who is a great finisher with his head aswell as his feet, but he wont win many headers from corners, and he isnt going to chest down a long ball whilst holding off a centre back, and he isnt going to outjump a centre back if they are both jumping from a standing positon. Whilst they are decent at heading, they are not of great aerial use to the team in the majority of situations.

Back to Adebayor vs. Torres. I'm sure if you put Torres on the end of a cross then he will have a good chance of burying it. But his overall aerial ability, compared to Adebayor and the likes, is far, far less. It's plain to see that Adebayor uses his aerial ability alot more. Adebayor will win lots of knock downs, manage to control the ball with his chest, as well as score headers from crosses. This creates two vastly opposing roles for the two players. Which, I think you will find is my original fecking point in my first post in this thread.



Examples, please. How are you tearing my posts apart? Every post you guys have attacked me in, you have not given any substantial argument against what I have said. Time and time again I have torn all of your arguments to shreds, and you just reply in a general manner, with either no specifics or no relevant specifics. Give me an example of where I have contradicted myself.
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you're doing it again ;)
 
Torres:

Goals 18
Shot on target 36
Total shot 75

Adebayor:

Goals 19
Shot on target 36
Total shot 80

That dispels the "he only scores more because he gets more chances" myth then.

They are both very good finishers. Torres looks like a more natural finisher and adapted quicker than Adebayor, but the latter looks to have improved his finishing immensely.
 
M'n'M said:
you're doing it again ;)
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As are you. Keeping on attacking what I've said without giving any relevant evidence, or arguing against anything specific I have said. You still haven't "torn" my posts apart. You have no actual ability to construct a decent argument when presented with facts and reason. I must say I have quite enjoyed running rings around you, but it is growing tiresomely easy.

Good night, sir. I might pop back to this thread in the morning to see if, by some amazing miracle, you or demapples have managed to construct a half decent response to anything I've said. I won't be holding my breathe though.
 
B9 from YAWN said:
I dare, no, I double dare you to find a pacy striker who has the same kind of upper body strength as Torres.


He is strong as a bull.
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As you say pace, there arent many that can turn a yard like Torres.

Top speed there are many that are probably as fast but Torres' accelereation and change of pace is outstanding. So pacey strikers who are stronger than Torres; this is what i came up with...

Ronaldo (in his prime)

Henry is definitely stronger and faster (though he hasnt shown the latter recently)

Eto'o is a beast, not been too hot recently

Drogba (maybe without as much pace but still)

Adebayor has is has a decent change of pace, is stronger.

Cristiano (he might as well be thrown in the mix)

Cameron Jerome (Why not?)
 
united.7 said:
As you say pace, there arent many that can turn a yard like Torres.

Top speed there are many that are probably as fast but Torres' accelereation and change of pace is outstanding. So pacey strikers who are stronger than Torres; this is what i came up with...

Ronaldo (in his prime)

Henry is definitely stronger and faster (though he hasnt shown the latter recently)

Eto'o is a beast, not been too hot recently

Drogba (maybe without as much pace but still)

Adebayor has is has a decent change of pace, is stronger.

Cristiano (he might as well be thrown in the mix)

Cameron Jerome (Why not?)
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Ronaldo and drogba are the only ones of those I would grant as having more upper strength than torres (wouldn't class adebayor in the 'pacy striker' category, although he's fast for a big man). Henry isn't that strong, but he does have impeccable balance.

Ronaldo was unreal. Impossible to shrug off the ball.
 
Rowem said:
As are you. Keeping on attacking what I've said without giving any relevant evidence, or arguing against anything specific I have said. You still haven't "torn" my posts apart. You have no actual ability to construct a decent argument when presented with facts and reason. I must say I have quite enjoyed running rings around you, but it is growing tiresomely easy.

Good night, sir. I might pop back to this thread in the morning to see if, by some amazing miracle, you or demapples have managed to construct a half decent response to anything I've said. I won't be holding my breathe though.
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I wasn't attempting to tear your posts apart - just pointing out you're talking rubbish. And I did that. You can come back with as long a post as you like backing up your opinion but it is still wrong. To answer your question - yes I would much rather have a player who can score goals with his head than "someone who gives defenders a rough time because he is big and strong". No end product doesn't help anybody. Emile Heskey is big and strong and gives defenders a rough time - the prosecution rests.

Oh, and lighten up, we're only having a bit of banter. (You're still talking wet though - Kevin Davies :lol:)
 
B9 from YAWN said:
Ronaldo and drogba are the only ones of those I would grant as having more upper strength than torres (wouldn't class adebayor in the 'pacy striker' category, although he's fast for a big man). Henry isn't that strong, but he does have impeccable balance.

Ronaldo was unreal. Impossible to shrug off the ball.
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Then we agree, almost.

Henry is very strong, hardly seen a defender knock him off the ball, he has chosen not to use his strength the more arrogant he has become. I have had a second thought on Torres; he has excellent technique when holding a ball up, he always knows when to lean into a defender and at what angle as opposed to physically shifting defenders like say Drogba, Adebayor and even Ronaldo could/can do while running with the ball.

Torres is strong, but certainly not the Jeff Capes of the football world, and when you say upper body strength; id bet my girlfriend that Cristiano can bench press and arm curl more than Torres (despite being taller, with longer arms, hence making it harder), which is strictly upper body strength, Torres uses his better, which is technique.
 
M'n'M said:
I wasn't attempting to tear your posts apart - just pointing out you're talking rubbish. And I did that. You can come back with as long a post as you like backing up your opinion but it is still wrong. To answer your question - yes I would much rather have a player who can score goals with his head than "someone who gives defenders a rough time because he is big and strong". No end product doesn't help anybody. Emile Heskey is big and strong and gives defenders a rough time - the prosecution rests.

Oh, and lighten up, we're only having a bit of banter. (You're still talking wet though - Kevin Davies :lol:)
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Emile Heskey is better in the air than Torres.

Who do you think would win more headers between the two?

Heskey sets up a load of goals/starts plenty of attacks because of his aerial strength. It's pretty much the only reason he's been able to create a career for himself as a Premiership/International striker.

You claim to have "pointed out" that my opinion is wrong. I dont see anyway that you have done so, other than stating your opinion. You have not answered or responded to any of the points I have made. We're not talknig about finishing we're talking about aerial ability. Give Torres a free header I'm sure he'll stand a good chance of finishing it, but he doesn't contribute to the overall team play by winning balls in the air, because he won't win as many contested headers.

If you think Torres is better in the air than Adebayor/Davies/Heskey then you're having a fecking laugh. If this is some clever wind up then well done, youv'e fooled me completely.
 
There are different aerial skills to consider. Heskey wins most knockdowns and the like but for such a huge guy, he was very poor at attacking headers. Owen was far superior to him in this regard and so is Torres.

Swing crosses into the box from good angles and my money would be on Torres to bang it in ahead of heskey any day. And I say that as a fan of big Emile.
 
Exactly. Jesus. One Liverpool fan who can undertand a simple concept. I've had these other two idiots on my back for suggesting that Torres and Adebayor are a different style of striker. It's like saying Owen and Heskey are are of a similiar style. I'd back Owen to score a free header over Heskey, but Heskey will win more headers/contribute to the team in that respect.

Oh well. I think they must have been on a wind up and I fell for it.
 
Rowem said:
Exactly. Jesus. One Liverpool fan who can undertand a simple concept. I've had these other two idiots on my back for suggesting that Torres and Adebayor are a different style of striker. It's like saying Owen and Heskey are are of a similiar style. I'd back Owen to score a free header over Heskey, but Heskey will win more headers/contribute to the team in that respect.

Oh well. I think they must have been on a wind up and I fell for it.
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If you were referring to me, I wasn't on a wind up.

I didnt agree Torres was poor at the range of things you mentioned when compared with Adebayor.

I still don't agree as it happens but can't be bothered with you any more.
 
According to Rio and Vidic, Adebayor is one of the toughest forwards they have played against in the Prem. They were quite comfortable against torres for sure. Adebayor has more to his game than torres. This isnt to say that torres is shite. But going by the comments of those who played against both it seems like Adebayor is a harder package to handle
 
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