Scores die in Israeli air strikes

Don't Kill Bill said:
They can elect who ever they like but it means feck all to everybody else.It doesn't mean any govt has to deal with them,as they can choose to ignore them instead.It made the whole issue easier for Israel because they are in charge and can stop the rocket attacks if they want to.
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Israel couldn't stop rocket attacks from Gaza when it was on the ground in Gaza, how do you expect Hamas to succeed?
 
MikeUpNorth said:
Why do people keep mentioning that Hamas were democratically elected? What has that got to do with anything? It doesn't change the fact that they wish for Israel's destruction via violent means, encourage suicide attacks and have been persistently firing rockets into civilian areas. To put it mildly their whole ideology is objectionable. Yes, we can all understand why such an organisation has public support in Gaza when a people live in the terrible conditions they do...but being publicly supported doesn't justify the unjustifiable.

If there's one thing we can all agree on in this mess, it's surely that the whole situation would be better off without Hamas and their ideologies? This is not tantamount to saying that the people of Gaza are the problem. And also does not presuppose that the Israeli tactics are the best way forward with regards removing the support for an organisation such as Hamas.

It should be recognised that long term stability cannot be achieved with Hamas (at least in their current guise) as the representative of the people of Gaza. Living conditions need to dramatically improve in Gaza to start eroding public support for Hamas.
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Hamas has held several ceasefires and has repeatedly said they'll agree to a 2 state solution, they can be talked to, Israel is not interested because it does not want a free state in Gaza
 
Ruud_boy_10 said:
And that is why the situation is so desperate for the Palestinians. They can’t win. They were asked to embrace democracy by the west and when they did they were punished for it. If you take away the right of a people to elect its own representative then you leave those people in a very desperate situation. I think many people in the west take self governance for granted. Where as, if you look in the middle-east democracy in non-existent.
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That is the point at which you make peace settle for the best deal the victor offers and try to build a new better future. First step accept defeat because take the names off the combatants and it looks like one side won and the other lost but can't accept it. I am not saying right or wrong, or just. For there to be a Marshal plan there has to be a peace settlement.

In a democracy you only mandate someone to represent you. You do not get anything else for that. If that representative speaks badly for you or runs things badly then the electorate suffers for it.
 
ooeat0meoo said:
How many Israeli people died in this conflict, is that article correct, it was 4 people?

Holy feck, you people are sick and twisted!
If that is true.
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Four Israelis died this past week, since our retaliation began. Others died from missile fire these past eight years, around 12 I think.

I wouldn't expect most of the people here to understand. You seem to just look at death figures. Israel was showered with thousands of rockets in the last few years, each of them a potential killer. The fact only few died as a result is down to just luck. So how is that a factor?
 
Islamic Jihad or whatever they are called was firing some missiles in recent weeks, but you clearly see the difference when it's Hamas - far, far more missiles. Whether they are co operating, I'm not to say.
 
Ruud_boy_10 said:
And that is why the situation is so desperate for the Palestinians. They can’t win. They were asked to embrace democracy by the west and when they did they were punished for it. If
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By each other.

How selective you memory is when only months ago Hamas were murdering Fatah, chucking them out of hospital windows, mutilation etc.

They just ain't ready for democracy it seems.
 
Ads by Google on this page wants me to 'Learn Hebrew Online'...even Google is on the Israeli side...
 
Mozza said:
Rubbish, there are several groups firing from Gaza, not just Hamas
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Regardless, a democratically elected government responsible for any rocket attacks targeting a civilian population is a declaration of war and any reprisals on that government are completely legitimate.

Argument otherwise is asinine.

It sucks that civilians are dying, but civilians die in war. What sucks more is that the Palestinians are attempting to spin international opinion in their favor through the blatant and shameless exploitation of these casualties. Casualties brought about by their act of war.
 
Very good article from the Independent:

Mark Steel: So what have the Palestinians got to complain about?

To portray this as a conflict between equals requires some imagination

When you read the statements from Israeli and US politicians, and try to match them with the pictures of devastation, there seems to be only one explanation. They must have one of those conditions, called something like "Visual Carnage Responsibility Back To Front Upside Down Massacre Disorder".

For example, Condoleezza Rice, having observed that more than 300 Gazans were dead, said: "We are deeply concerned about the escalating violence. We strongly condemn the attacks on Israel and hold Hamas responsible."

Someone should ask her to comment on teenage knife-crime, to see if she'd say: "I strongly condemn the people who've been stabbed, and until they abandon their practice of wandering around clutching their sides and bleeding, there is no hope for peace."

The Israeli government suffers terribly from this confusion. They probably have adverts on Israeli television in which a man falls off a ladder and screams, "Eeeeugh", then a voice says, "Have you caused an accident at work in the last 12 months?" and the bloke who pushed him gets £3,000.

The gap between the might of Israel's F-16 bombers and Apache helicopters, and the Palestinians' catapulty thing is so ridiculous that to try and portray the situation as between two equal sides requires the imagination of a children's story writer.

The reporter on News at Ten said the rockets "may be ineffective, but they ARE symbolic." So they might not have weapons but they have got symbolism, the canny brutes.

It's no wonder the Israeli Air Force had to demolish a few housing estates, otherwise Hamas might have tried to mock Israel through a performance of expressive dance.

The rockets may be unable to to kill on the scale of the Israeli Air Force, said one spokesman, but they are "intended to kill".

Maybe he went on: "And we have evidence that Hamas supporters have dreams, and that in these dreams bad things happen to Israeli citizens, they burst, or turn into cactus, or run through Woolworths naked, so it's not important whether it can happen, what matters is that they WANT it to happen, so we blew up their university."

Or there's the outrage that Hamas has been supported by Iran. Well that's just breaking the rules. Because say what you will about the Israelis, they get no arms supplies or funding or political support from a country that's more powerful than them, they just go their own way and make all their weapons in an arts and crafts workshop in Jerusalem.

But mostly the Israelis justify themselves with a disappointing lack of imagination, such as the line that they had to destroy an ambulance because Hamas cynically put their weapons inside ambulances.

They should be more creative, and say Hamas were planning to aim the flashing blue light at Israeli epileptics in an attempt to make them go into a fit, get dizzy and wander off into Syria where they would be captured.

But they prefer a direct approach, such as the statement from Ofer Schmerling, an Israeli Civil Defence official who said on al-Jazeera, "I shall play music and celebrate what the Israeli Air Force is doing."

Maybe they could turn it into a huge nationalfestival, with decorations and mince pies and shops playing "I Wish We Could Bomb Gaza Every Day".

In a similar tone Dov Weisglas, Ariel Sharon's chief of staff, referred to the siege of Gaza that preceded this bombing, a siege in which the Israelis prevented the population from receiving essential supplies of food, medicine, electricity and water, by saying, "We put them on a diet."

It's the arrogance of the East End gangster, so it wouldn't be out of character if the Israeli Prime Minister's press conference began: "Oh dear or dear. It looks like those Palestinians have had a little, er, accident. All their buildings have been knocked down – they want to be more careful, hee hee."

And almost certainly one of the reasons this is happening now is because the government wants to appear hard as it wants to win an election. Maybe with typical Israeli frankness they'll show a party political broadcast in which Ehud Olmert says, "This is why I think you should vote for me", then shows film of Gaza and yells: "Wa-hey, that bloke in the corner is on FIRE."

And Condoleezza Rice and her colleagues, and the specially appointed Middle East Peace Envoy, could then all shake their heads and say: "Disgraceful. The way he's flapping around like that could cause someone to have a nasty accident."
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What a ridiculous article.

If the teenager doesn't want to get stabbed, he shouldn't try to shank your family.
 
Nucks said:
Regardless, a democratically elected government responsible for any rocket attacks targeting a civilian population is a declaration of war and any reprisals on that government are completely legitimate.

Argument otherwise is asinine.

It sucks that civilians are dying, but civilians die in war. What sucks more is that the Palestinians are attempting to spin international opinion in their favor through the blatant and shameless exploitation of these casualties. Casualties brought about by their act of war.
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Casualties bought about the actions of the Palestinians, casualties bought about by Israel
 
Mozza said:
Casualties bought about the actions of the Palestinians, casualties bought about by Israel
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I'm sorry but it isn't Israel that is constantly attacking innocent Palestinians.

I think you will find that whenever something flares up it is the actions of Militant Arabs. Israel has the right to defend itself.

Now, I fully understand much of the outcry here. That Hamas or whomever are not on equal footing with the IDF. The argument is that this is an unfair fight or some such nonsense. Sorry that isn't how the world works.

Hypothetically if you try to shoot me, and I just happen to have access to a tomahawk cruise missile, guess what I am going to fly up your ass. An act to kill is an act to kill period.
 
Nucks said:
I'm sorry but it isn't Israel that is constantly attacking innocent Palestinians.

I think you will find that whenever something flares up it is the actions of Militant Arabs. Israel has the right to defend itself.

Now, I fully understand much of the outcry here. That Hamas or whomever are not on equal footing with the IDF. The argument is that this is an unfair fight or some such nonsense. Sorry that isn't how the world works.

Hypothetically if you try to shoot me, and I just happen to have access to a tomahawk cruise missile, guess what I am going to fly up your ass. An act to kill is an act to kill period.
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1.5 million people have been under siege in Gaza since the election of Hamas and for periods prior to that, that last 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, the flair ups as you call them are in response to that attack. 55% of the people of Gaza are under 18
 
Mozza said:
1.5 million people have been under siege in Gaza since the election of Hamas and for periods prior to that, that last 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, the flair ups as you call them are in response to that attack. 55% of the people of Gaza are under 18
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Yes because there were not attacks on Israel before the Hamas election. This is the first time in the history that the State of Israel has been attacked. Ever.

If anything the actions of Hamas are only justifying the blockade.

When was the last time Israel without provocation attacked?
 
Nucks said:
If anything the actions of Hamas are only justifying the blockade.

When was the last time Israel without provocation attacked?
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It's a cycle of violence, you can pick any point and say, 'That started it', but it's pretty arbitrary.

Hamas will point to the fact that before the end of the truce, the Israelis blew up some of their tunnels. The Israelis say they destroyed the tunnels because they would be used to bring weapons in. Hamas say they have to do something to break the blockade. Israel says, Recognise Israel's right to exist, we'll talk about ending the blockade. Hamas says, Who gives away their biggest pile of chips before the game begins?

It's true Hamas deliberately brought this on themselves by rejecting the truce and continuing to bomb Israel. From their point of view though, to prolong the truce means prolonging the status quo, which is all but unbearable, for year after year.

Their acceptance (and actual encouragement) of civilian casualties is incredibly cynical and fecked up. But the only other option available to them is to come to the table with a weakened hand - which would be politically almost impossible given their mandate.

The Israelis know this, which is why they're happy to prolong the truce. I was there last month, it was a very pleasant place to be with the truce on - no anxiety on the bus or in restaurants, minimal security except outside major tourist attractions. And away from the settlements, life seems comparatively good on the West Bank, which is more prosperous than it has been in years. But the truce didn't mean that in Gaza - it just carried on suffocating.
 
reddevilcanada said:
Israel's war in Gaza

Gaza: the rights and wrongs

Dec 30th 2008
From The Economist print edition

Israel was provoked, but as in Lebanon in 2006 it may find this war a hard one to end, or to justify

THE scale and ferocity of the onslaught on Gaza have been shocking, and the television images of civilian suffering wrench the heart. But however deplorable, Israel’s resort to military means to silence the rockets of Hamas should have been no surprise. This war has been a long time in the making.

Since Israel evacuated its soldiers and settlers from the Gaza Strip three years ago, Palestinian groups in Gaza have fired thousands of rudimentary rockets and mortar bombs across the border, killing very few people but disrupting normal life in a swathe of southern Israel. They fired almost 300 between December 19th, when Hamas ignored Egypt’s entreaties and decided not to renew a six-month truce, and December 27th, when Israel started its bombing campaign (see article). To that extent, Israel is right to say it was provoked.
Of provocation and proportion

It is easy to point out from afar that barely a dozen Israelis had been killed by Palestinian rockets since the Gaza withdrawal. But few governments facing an election, as Israel’s is, would let their towns be peppered every day with rockets, no matter how ineffective. As Barack Obama said on a visit to one Israeli town in July, “If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I’m going to do everything in my power to stop that. And I would expect Israelis to do the same thing.” In recent months, moreover, Hamas has smuggled far more lethal rockets into its Gaza enclave, some of which are now landing in Israeli cities that were previously out of range. On its border with Lebanon, Israel already faces one radical non-state actor, Hizbullah, that is formally dedicated to Israel’s destruction and has a powerful arsenal of Iranian-supplied missiles at its disposal. The Israelis are understandably reluctant to let a similar danger grow in Gaza.

And yet Israel should not be surprised by the torrent of indignation it has aroused from around the world. This is not just because people seldom back the side with the F-16s. In general, a war must pass three tests to be justified. A country must first have exhausted all other means of defending itself. The attack should be proportionate to the objective. And it must stand a reasonable chance of achieving its goal. On all three of these tests Israel is on shakier ground than it cares to admit.

It is true that Israel has put up with the rockets from Gaza for a long time. But it may have been able to stop the rockets another way. For it is not quite true that Israel’s only demand in respect of Gaza has been for quiet along the border. Israel has also been trying to undermine Hamas by clamping an economic blockade on Gaza, while boosting the economy of the West Bank, where the Palestinians’ more pliant secular movement, Fatah, holds sway. Even during the now-lapsed truce, Israel prevented all but a trickle of humanitarian aid from entering the strip. So although Israel was provoked, Hamas can claim that it was provoked too. If Israel had ended the blockade, Hamas may have renewed the truce. Indeed, on one reading of its motives, Hamas resumed fire to force Israel into a new truce on terms that would include opening the border.

On proportionality, the numbers speak for themselves—up to a point. After the first three days, some 350 Palestinians had been killed and only four Israelis. Neither common sense nor the laws of war require Israel to deviate from the usual rule, which is to kill as many enemies as you can and avoid casualties on your own side. Hamas was foolish to pick this uneven fight. But of the Palestinian dead, several score were civilians, and many others were policemen rather than combatants. Although both Western armies and their foes have killed far more civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq, Israel’s interest should be to minimise the killing. The Palestinians it is bombing today will be its neighbours for ever.

This last point speaks to the test of effectiveness. Israel said at first that, much as it would like to topple Hamas, its present operation has the more limited aim of “changing reality” so that Hamas stops firing across the border. But as Israel learnt in Lebanon in 2006, this is far from easy. As with Hizbullah, Hamas’s “resistance” to Israel has made it popular and delivered it to power. It is most unlikely to bend the knee. Like Hizbullah, it will probably prefer to keep on firing no matter how hard it is hit, daring Israel to send its ground forces into a messy street fight in Gaza’s congested cities and refugee camps.
Now cease fire

Can Israel have forgotten the lesson of Lebanon so soon? Hardly. If anything, its campaign against Hamas now is intended to compensate for its relative failure against Hizbullah then. With Iran’s nuclear threat on the horizon, and Iranian influence growing in both Lebanon and Gaza, Israel is keen to remind its enemies that the Jewish state can still fight and still win. Precisely for that reason, despite its talk of a long campaign, it may be more receptive than it is letting on to an immediate ceasefire. Its aircraft have already pummelled almost every target in Gaza. Further military gains will be harder. A truce now, if Hamas really did stop its fire, could be presented to voters as the successful rehabilitation of Israeli deterrence.

But a ceasefire needs a mediator. Mr Obama is not yet president, and George Bush has so far hung back, just as he did in 2006 while waiting for an Israeli knockout blow that did not come. This time, he and everyone else with influence should pile in at once. To bring Hamas on board, a ceasefire would need to include an end to Israel’s blockade, but that would be a good thing in itself, relieving the suffering in Gaza and removing one of the reasons Hamas gives for fighting.

After that, Mr Obama will have to gather up what is left of diplomacy in the Middle East. It is not all hopeless. Until this week, Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, was talking to Israel about how to create a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza. But Mr Abbas presides over the West Bank only, and little progress is possible so long as half of Palestine’s people support an organisation that can still not bring itself to renounce armed struggle or recognise Israel’s right to exist. Since Hamas is not going to disappear, some way must be found to change its mind. Bombs alone will never do that.
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Great post.
 
Nucks said:
Regardless, a democratically elected government responsible for any rocket attacks targeting a civilian population is a declaration of war and any reprisals on that government are completely legitimate.

Argument otherwise is asinine.

It sucks that civilians are dying, but civilians die in war. What sucks more is that the Palestinians are attempting to spin international opinion in their favor through the blatant and shameless exploitation of these casualties. Casualties brought about by their act of war.
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The awful truth.
 
Ruud_boy_10 said:
Like it or not, Hamas were democratically elected by the Palestinian people. By disengaging them you are only going to radicalize them. To suggest that the Palestinians are blood thirsty animals is just buying into Israeli propaganda used to justify all its barbaric actions
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Hamas are a democratically elected terrorist organization, their political wing winning the mandate dosent really count them as a political party or making them less tainted to any extent. If people elect any stained organization to power then they should face the repurcussion. In retrospect US governments designated by their populace, groomed Bin Laden and its eventually ended up killing their civilians in 9/11, we Indians voted an impotent government to power and it led to a string of low level terrorist attacks across the country that finally culminated in the Mumbai massacre.

As for some regular Labobs around here trying to pick up some clever debates by counting corpses, the problem is more astronomical than Israel blowing out few Hamas installations or vice versa. Like in the Mumbai attacks the alleged freedom fighters from Pakistan in an ideal world shouldn't have had any apparent reasons to grab a jewish couple, cut the eyes, ears and nose out of Rabbi Gavriel Holtzberg, broke his legs and then smashing his face with bullets, torturing his pregnant missus for hours, stripping her, smashing her abdomen constantly and finally shooting between her legs, killing their children- it all sums up the brutal abhorrence of Jihad’s around the world who have turned on against Israel as whole , even those Mossad agents who received the corpses stated another holocaust is on the reckoning. Doubt any human rights organization or any Islamic nation had the guts or time to condemn these viciousness then, as the damage is usually guaged on the media barking out some sensational report on death counts.

The state sponsored terrorism by the pan arab league or any other Islamic nation cannot be eradicated unless the guilty states are made to pay a prohibitive price. STASI the east german intelligence was behind terrorism in the western europe and it continued as long as communism lasted there. Syria and Libya were playing the same cards and only a strong reply from the US forced them to revert back. The problem in the middle east is more cancerous than 1.5 million people fighting over a tiny strip of land, would not evaporate even if an independent state of Palestine is created. Israel have every right to hit back and as long as they allow humanitarian aid and basic amnities to flow across the gaza strip, they shouldn't be blamed.
 
vijay said:
jewish couple, cut the eyes, ears and nose out of Rabbi Gavriel Holtzberg, break his legs and then smashing his face with bullets, torturing his pregnant missus fo hours, stripping her, smashing her abdomen constantly and finally shooting between her legs, killing their children- it all sums up the brutal abhorrence of Jihad’s around the world who have turned on against Israel as whole ,
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I never knew this happened...how did you find out about this?
 
Fearless said:
I never knew this happened...how did you find out about this?
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This information was kept under wraps by the impotent Indian and the US governments yet a day after the attack the doctor who did the autopsy broke the news. He said "Bombay has a long history of terror. I have seen bodies of riot victims, gang war and previous terror attacks like bomb blasts. But this was entirely different. It was shocking and disturbing, A bomb blast victim's body might have been torn apart and could be a very disturbing sight. But the bodies of the victims in this attack bore such signs about the kind of violence of urban warfare that I am still unable to put my thoughts to words" and finally when Israeli intelligece came to collect the corpses it broke through in the media, the damage was done when the Jewish family were held as hostages for eight hours.

Here's a tit bit, you can get the full gruesome story by googling a bit.

http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/mumbaiterrorstrike/Story.aspx?ID=NEWEN20080075533&type=News
 
vijay said:
Hamas are a democratically elected terrorist organization, their political wing winning the mandate dosent really count them as a political party or making them less tainted to any extent. If people elect any stained organization to power then they should face the repurcussion. In retrospect US governments designated by their populace, groomed Bin Laden and its eventually ended up killing their civilians in 9/11, we Indians voted an impotent government to power and it led to a string of low level terrorist attacks across the country that finally culminated in the Mumbai massacre.

As for some regular Labobs around here trying to pick up some clever debates by counting corpses, the problem is more astronomical than Israel blowing out few Hamas installations or vice versa. Like in the Mumbai attacks the alleged freedom fighters from Pakistan in an ideal world shouldn't have had any apparent reasons to grab a jewish couple, cut the eyes, ears and nose out of Rabbi Gavriel Holtzberg, break his legs and then smashing his face with bullets, torturing his pregnant missus fo hours, stripping her, smashing her abdomen constantly and finally shooting between her legs, killing their children- it all sums up the brutal abhorrence of Jihad’s around the world who have turned on against Israel as whole , even those Mossad agents who received the corpses stated another holocaust is on the reckoning. Doubt any human rights organization or any Islamic nation had the guts or time to condemn these viciousness then, as the damage is usually guaged on the media barking out some sensational report on death counts.

The state sponsored terrorism by the pan arab league or any other Islamic nation cannot be eradicated unless the guilty states are made to pay a prohibitive price. STASI the east german intelligence was behind terrorism in the western europe and it continued as long as communism lasted there. Syria and Libya were playing the same cards and only a strong reply from the US forced them to revert back. The problem in the middle east is more cancerous than 1.5 million people fighting over a tiny strip of land, would not evaporate even if an independent state of Palestine is created. Israel have every right to hit back and as long as they allow humanitarian aid and basic amnities to flow across the gaza strip, they shouldn't be blamed.
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Great points.

This struggle doesn't end as long as Israel exists and as long as the current climate in the middle east exists. By making concessions Israel has only invited more attacks.

The game currently being played goes both ways. The terrorist organizations feel that they have been successful as territory lost has been returned. Israel on the other hand has to be as firm as possible, example, the Hezbollah war so that the repercussions become a deterrent.

At the end of the day Israel would be happy to live and let live. They are not the ones driving the violence. Israel has proven that despite its massive military advantage it has no designs on eradicating those who wish to eradicate it. It has reacted defensively and with considerable restraint, on the other hand if suddenly Israel was unable to defend itself they would be wiped off the map.
 
vijay said:
Hamas are a democratically elected terrorist organization, their political wing winning the mandate dosent really count them as a political party or making them less tainted to any extent. If people elect any stained organization to power then they should face the repurcussion. In retrospect US governments designated by their populace, groomed Bin Laden and its eventually ended up killing their civilians in 9/11, we Indians voted an impotent government to power and it led to a string of low level terrorist attacks across the country that finally culminated in the Mumbai massacre.

As for some regular Labobs around here trying to pick up some clever debates by counting corpses, the problem is more astronomical than Israel blowing out few Hamas installations or vice versa. Like in the Mumbai attacks the alleged freedom fighters from Pakistan in an ideal world shouldn't have had any apparent reasons to grab a jewish couple, cut the eyes, ears and nose out of Rabbi Gavriel Holtzberg, break his legs and then smashing his face with bullets, torturing his pregnant missus fo hours, stripping her, smashing her abdomen constantly and finally shooting between her legs, killing their children- it all sums up the brutal abhorrence of Jihad’s around the world who have turned on against Israel as whole , even those Mossad agents who received the corpses stated another holocaust is on the reckoning. Doubt any human rights organization or any Islamic nation had the guts or time to condemn these viciousness then, as the damage is usually guaged on the media barking out some sensational report on death counts.

The state sponsored terrorism by the pan arab league or any other Islamic nation cannot be eradicated unless the guilty states are made to pay a prohibitive price. STASI the east german intelligence was behind terrorism in the western europe and it continued as long as communism lasted there. Syria and Libya were playing the same cards and only a strong reply from the US forced them to revert back. The problem in the middle east is more cancerous than 1.5 million people fighting over a tiny strip of land, would not evaporate even if an independent state of Palestine is created. Israel have every right to hit back and as long as they allow humanitarian aid and basic amnities to flow across the gaza strip, they shouldn't be blamed.
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FFS :mad:


Good post
 
vijay said:
Hamas are a democratically elected terrorist organization, their political wing winning the mandate dosent really count them as a political party or making them less tainted to any extent. If people elect any stained organization to power then they should face the repurcussion. In retrospect US governments designated by their populace, groomed Bin Laden and its eventually ended up killing their civilians in 9/11, we Indians voted an impotent government to power and it led to a string of low level terrorist attacks across the country that finally culminated in the Mumbai massacre.

As for some regular Labobs around here trying to pick up some clever debates by counting corpses, the problem is more astronomical than Israel blowing out few Hamas installations or vice versa. Like in the Mumbai attacks the alleged freedom fighters from Pakistan in an ideal world shouldn't have had any apparent reasons to grab a jewish couple, cut the eyes, ears and nose out of Rabbi Gavriel Holtzberg, break his legs and then smashing his face with bullets, torturing his pregnant missus fo hours, stripping her, smashing her abdomen constantly and finally shooting between her legs, killing their children- it all sums up the brutal abhorrence of Jihad’s around the world who have turned on against Israel as whole , even those Mossad agents who received the corpses stated another holocaust is on the reckoning. Doubt any human rights organization or any Islamic nation had the guts or time to condemn these viciousness then, as the damage is usually guaged on the media barking out some sensational report on death counts.

The state sponsored terrorism by the pan arab league or any other Islamic nation cannot be eradicated unless the guilty states are made to pay a prohibitive price. STASI the east german intelligence was behind terrorism in the western europe and it continued as long as communism lasted there. Syria and Libya were playing the same cards and only a strong reply from the US forced them to revert back. The problem in the middle east is more cancerous than 1.5 million people fighting over a tiny strip of land, would not evaporate even if an independent state of Palestine is created. Israel have every right to hit back and as long as they allow humanitarian aid and basic amnities to flow across the gaza strip, they shouldn't be blamed.
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Excellent points.
 
vijay said:
This information was kept under wraps by the impotent Indian and the US governments yet a day after the attack the doctor who did the autopsy broke the news. He said "Bombay has a long history of terror. I have seen bodies of riot victims, gang war and previous terror attacks like bomb blasts. But this was entirely different. It was shocking and disturbing, A bomb blast victim's body might have been torn apart and could be a very disturbing sight. But the bodies of the victims in this attack bore such signs about the kind of violence of urban warfare that I am still unable to put my thoughts to words" and finally when Israeli intelligece came to collect the corpses it broke through in the media, the damage was done when the Jewish family were held as hostages for eight hours.

Here's a tit bit, you can get the full gruesome story by googling a bit.

http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/mumbaiterrorstrike/Story.aspx?ID=NEWEN20080075533&type=News
Click to expand...

Utterly horrible.

'Freedom fighting' my arse.
 
Fearless said:
Google co-founders Larry Page and Segey Brin are Jews.

Boycott Google.
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A persons religion is not a good reason. Its just plain old fashioned anti-semitism.

If you want to boycott Google, theres better reasons.....compliance with Chinese repression maybe.
 
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