Lionel Messi
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Just saw the scoreline, taking the piss a bit. Almeria really should do better.
Marcos, English teams are slightly more organized and better at defending on the whole. I'm shocked as a United supporter you haven't noticed this. On the other hand, I'd say La Liga teams are on the whole better at keeping the ball.
The issue here is the gulf between Madrid/Barca and the rest, which is making it too easy for them. Read brad's post in the la liga thread.
my point is i'd like to see him playing for the best team in world football
That basically sums up my attitude towards Messi. If you read every quote i've written about him, it's basically the same. It's tongue in cheek most of it but I think most people would say the sameThe other 18 teams could pool their money together in La Liga and it would still be dwarfed by Real or Barca.
Fair enough if Real and Barca finish top two every year, that's not dissimilar to other leagues, but 3rd place in La Liga will finish 30+ points off 2nd this year (it was 25 points last year and looks to be getting worse).
That is not competitive.
Don't take our word for it - go ask the chairmen of Sevilla, or Valencia, or Getafe. The top two in La Liga is set in stone for the next 10 years. We may as well just let them play only their games against eachother, and assume they'll pick up 90-odd points for the other games.
Fair enough if Real and Barca finish top two every year, that's not dissimilar to other leagues, but 3rd place in La Liga will finish 30+ points off 2nd this year (it was 25 points last year and looks to be getting worse).
That is not competitive.
Don't take our word for it - go ask the chairmen of Sevilla, or Valencia, or Getafe. The top two in La Liga is set in stone for the next 10 years. We may as well just let them play only their games against eachother, and assume they'll pick up 90-odd points for the other games.
The defending is different because the whole game is different. The requirements of defenders are different.
Most of the prem defenders are strong and good in the air but vulnerable to movement and not great on the ball. On the continent everyone defends like Arsenal. The defenders are as wimpy as the wingers but they don't shit their pants when someone runs across them.
Most of the prem defenders are strong and good in the air but vulnerable to movement and not great on the ball. On the continent everyone defends like Arsenal. The defenders are as wimpy as the wingers but they don't shit their pants when someone runs across them.
mate, how about Machester United winning 11 premier league titles, over 18?
that's a huge gulf
(whatever the term "gulf" means)
oh, ok, sorrymy point is i'd like to see him playing for the best team in world football
i've been arguing with my shadow
yet, they won the world cup
Forgot my point a bit, but the defenders Messi plays against are used to playing against teams and players like (but not as good as) Messi, but they'd struggle against Kevin Davies. Someone like Soldado could easily get bossed by Titus Bramble if he came to England. There are some players (well, only 2) that could rinse any defender, any culture and any style they come up against. So I guess it would just be a case of adapting. Almost impossible to tell which of the lower teams in each league are strongest because they never play each other and all you have to gauge it on is the old schoolground 'x beat y 2-0 and y beat z 3-1 so y is the bestest'.
Don't see what your point is.
Noone's arguing that Real and Barca are shit sides with shit players.
If anything, we're arguing the opposite.
mate, how about Machester United winning 11 premier league titles, over 18?
that's a huge gulf
(whatever the term "gulf" means)
That's a gulf..
United went 26 years without a title. Liverpool have gone 21. Do you think either Madrid or Barcelona would go that long without a title?
my point is that la liga is not as bad as some people think, that the premier league is a step better, but to think that Messi -as someone said- will suffer against stoke is ridiculous
that's all my point
With 10/11 players coming from the top two sides!
i don't know ... things have changed a lot since the TV started pumping money on teams
I don't think Messi would struggle here - he's proved time and time again that he can hurt good defences.
But I do think La Liga is a joke, which is a real shame. It's becoming less and less enjoyable to follow.
yes. premier league top sides couldnt provide good enough players to qualify for last euro
an euro that spain won, still we think that the premier league is a lot better than la liga
the gap between Real and Barcelona with the rest is undeniable and, of course, is harming la liga as a show, but that doesn't mean that the english teams are better than the spaniards
Take all the foreign players out the PL, and you got a league like Holland or Belgium.
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The team who finished 9th in the Spanish League won the UEFA Cup last season, beating the 12th and 7th placed teams from England on the way to it. Its not the case that the Spanish League as a whole is weaker, the fact the lower teams are winning European Competitions is evidence of that (Seville won the UEFA twice a few years ago) the reason MAdrid and Barca dominate is that they are truly exceptional teams.
Yes, but the TV money is distributed equally to everyone in the Prem unlike La Liga which helps it remain competitive.
I fail to see how a national team that represents 2 of the top teams in Spain (and the world) shows that La Liga is better than the Prem.
Germany consistently outperforms England, but you wouldn't argue that german club teams are better at football.
Somehow I don't see Kevin Davies being a hit in La Liga.
That's not exactly what I said though is it?
or Pennant, Wahey!
on another note, Messi will come to the Prem as soon as someone hits 4 against Arsenal, so here's hoping
don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that La Liga is better than the PL, i'm just saying that their teams are not as bad as some posters say
for example, TonyMontana claimed that in the premier there is not a team like almeria, and i think that that's a missconception
Because they've got more money than the rest combined.
Except City -_-
sadly a mixture of both, the individual tv deals is a mitigating factor to both of these teams success
I don't think anyone's disputing this, I just don't agree with the idea that the Spanish League is a weak one, when they have the strongest teams in the world, the best players in the world, and their mid table teams often win European Competitions.
A team in mid table can't get into European competitions
Seriously though, the EPL top half is at a higher level than the LL top half.
Atletico did.A team in mid table can't get into European competitions
Seriously though, the EPL top half is at a higher level than the LL top half.
Athletico were in the Europa because they were knocked out of the CL group stages,..Not because they were a mid-table team like Fulham in there from the beginnig...They finished 4th the season before, and the one before that. They finished mid-table last year because Europe took a lot out of them. Fulham took them to Extra-Time FFS. D'you think Fulham could challenge for the CL places like Athletico did?
That's the point really, they're just above Fulham's level and yet they're the kind of team who can challenge for the top 4 in Spain.
and they receive more money then the rest combined for TV rights.
Facepalm yourself.
Atletico Madrid are the equivalent of Liverpool or Arsenal in La Liga.
If you don't think Arsenal or Liverpool could win the Uefa Cup you're deluded.
I think it's unfair to say they are 'just above Fulham's level', they are significantly better than them, it just happened to be the biggest game in Fulham's history so they were more motivated. They also defeated Liverpool, who finished higher in the Premier League than they did in the Spanish Premier League. They're outside of this top two cartel and they still manage to beat the English side who had finished 2nd the previous season. If the League was so weak as it was made out to be, with only two decent teams, they they wouldn't be able to do that.
Well Liverpool couldn't win the UEFA Cup because Atletico beat them. When was the last time Arsenal or Liverpool finished 9th or below by the way?
You know what I mean, you're just being a contrary cnut, such is your raison d'être.
Atletico are, generally speaking, the 3rd or 4th best team in La Liga. Sure they'll have the odd spastic season (like Liverpool last season too), but it's pretty disingenuous to call them a mid-table side.
La Liga is becoming a farce. Third place will finish over 30 points behind 2nd this season (the gap was 25 points last season), and Barcelona and Real are virtually guaranteed a top two position for the next 10 years.
The Premier League is a complete different kettle of fish these days. Whoever finishes third will be no more than a handful of points away, and fourth won't be far behind them. It would be a brave man to predict the top two for the next decade as well.
Kieto I think you're kidding yourself mate. I'm not gunna argue that Barca and Madrid are exceptional teams, with the best players in the world, but they've bought their way to that position while the rest have been given dribs and drabs of the money pot, and that's seen its results in the current 'competitiveness' of their league
The Premier League is far more competitive, some might be bemoaning the quality but I think its nonsense, we have some exceptional players in this league, and I love the fact the lesser sides are good enough to give the top boys a game. Long may this competitiveness continue I say
If Chelsea face Barca or we face Madrid in the Champions League, I don't think you'd see our teams brushed aside. It's easy to look magnificent when you're not getting tested each week
The Premier League is far more competitive, some might be bemoaning the quality but I think its nonsense, we have some exceptional players in this league, and I love the fact the lesser sides are good enough to give the top boys a game. Long may this competitiveness continue I say
If Chelsea face Barca or we face Madrid in the Champions League, I don't think you'd see our teams brushed aside. It's easy to look magnificent when you're not getting tested each week
Before some wise arse comes in and says something about home grown players towards Brad comment, go and look at the pay slips of Barcelona players. They'd make even Real Madrid players blush. There is a good reason they've got massive debts as well.
The same thing happened in the Premier League in 2006-07, there were over 20 points between 1st and 3rd. They are dominant now because they are exceptional teams, like United and Chelsea were in 2007 and 2008 - the Premier League wasn't particular weak in those years, indeed there were 3 English teams in the Champions League Semi Finals that year. Barcelona finished outside the top two as recently as 2008, and I'd be very surprised if the Top Two for the next 10 years in a row was Real Madrid and Barcelona.
Also, I reckon the Top Two in the Premier League this season will be Manchester United and Chelsea, for the 6th time in 7 seasons. Finally, if you are going to reply to this post, please be more civil, I'm not interested in trading insults with you.
The lower clubs aren't as wealthy as Real Madrid or Barcelona, and for that reason they can't really compete with them, I'd agree with that totally. What I disagree with is the idea that these are really poor sides who are so inferior to their Premier League counterparts. The Premier League is certainly more competitive, but as far as I can see, that's only because of a paucity in quality amongst the top sides. I think everyone accepts that we have declined sharply from where we were 2 years ago, I'd say Arsenal are worse than 2 years ago, Chelsea are certainly below the standard they were at under Mourinho or Grant. Liverpool are a team who are spiralling into oblivion. Tottenham and Manchester City have improved significantly, but not enough to counteract the overall decline in quality.
I would never try to argue that La Liga is more competitive, or indeed that it's not because of the money Real Madrid and Barcelona have, I'm just arguing that the teams below them are far from shit.
As for whether Real Madrid or Barcelona would brush aside us or Chelsea, probably wouldn't (although Barca did totally dominate Arsenal home and away, a side who are supposedly close to our Big Two), but if those teams do come up against each other, the only way the English side would have a chance of progressing would be to set up extremely defensively, making themselves very difficult to break down, and going for a win on the counter-attack or in a penalty shootout. I don't doubt us or Chelsea could make ourselves very difficult to break down, Chelsea did it against an awesome Barcelona side, arguably stronger than today's, and should have gone through to the Final. If both sides went out to play football though, as happened in Rome in 2009, there would only be one winner.
we won 11 leagues out of 18 and came second in four of them!!! so only in three premier leagues we didnt make it to the top two
how's that MORE competitive? not only that, there are two second teams that won more pl, arsenal and chelsea, with three and another one -blackburn- with one
since the premier league started -season 1992/1993- la liga was won 8 times by barcelona, 6 times by real madrid, 2 times by valencia and 1 time by Deportivo la Coruña and Atletico Madrid
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