Pronouncing foreign players' names
- Thread starter Plechazunga
- Start date
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Oh, sorry. I thought Gronkjaer was Norwegian for some reason. How are the two actually pronounced?
I remember when John Terry spoke about David Villa and pronounced David like the English name and Villa like a holiday home. Big tool.
Whichever commentator adds an 'r' to the end of Drogba should also be shot.
Whichever commentator adds an 'r' to the end of Drogba should also be shot.
Txiki Beguiristain - Cheeky Buggerstain.
The Drogba one is symptomatic to Brits. I had a an English woman as a teacher in sixth grade. She taught my sister, Maria, a couple of years before and was forever asking me "How's Ma-rear?" I couldn't get over it.
Maybe it's a particular regional accent, Im not sure but the tendency to drop an r at the end of a word ending in a is common.
Solskjær is shær and Grønkjær kær. Or something.
Grønkjær pronounces his name at 0:05: YouTube - Jesper Grønkjær ("Jeg heter Jesper Grønkær"). Notice that 'r' has been swallowed. In Norway we roll them proudly. (Except in Bergen where they roll them stupidly and french.) Someone find a similar thing for Solskjær.
I say Da-vid Viya, Phil Yagielka, Bayern München and Tee-airy Ahnree with Norwegian R.
I say Da-vid Viya, Phil Yagielka, Bayern München and Tee-airy Ahnree with Norwegian R.
You couldn't get over her rear?
On a serious note, there is one commentator (I forget which one) that switched from Drogba to Drogbar. Everyone I know still refers to him as Drogba and this commentator could well be correct, but it winds us all up.
To his credit, Gerry Armstrong on SkySports always tries to get the Spanish names right.
It's quite funny when he says Sporting Gijon though. In his Northern Irish accent it sounds like Sporting HeeHaw.
Makes it sound like he's doing an impression of a donkey (which may well be the correct way to say it).
It's quite funny when he says Sporting Gijon though. In his Northern Irish accent it sounds like Sporting HeeHaw.
Makes it sound like he's doing an impression of a donkey (which may well be the correct way to say it).
no just her habit of adding that mystery r at the end of every word that finished with an a.As I mentioned I think it's idiomatic, maybe a particular age group or regional accent, I don't know enough about regionalism in England to say for sure.
I think the Drogba thing is an attempt at proper pronunciation. They've probably asked Drogba himself and mangled what he said.
There's no actual r at the end of it, though, that's just an attempt to write how they pronounce it with a lengthened 'a'... Drogbah would do.
I think what you're talking about with your English woman is "intrusive r". Basically we don't pronounce the r between a vowel and a consonant, or at the end of a word except with a following vowel. So:
Fahmuh ("farmer")
Fahmuh Jones
but
Fahmer Atkinson
This is called 'linking r'. What's then happened is that we've generalised it to linking vowels between words that don't actually have an r. This is 'intrusive r'. So I say, for instance,
Bring the sofa-r-over here
Between India-r-and Pakistan
Patricia-r-Arquette (Ahquette)
and your example:
Jose Maria-r-Olazabal
I'd even use it within some words like "drawing" ("draw-ring"). Even RP speakers with posher accents than me do this these days, though not people much older than me I don't think. In American, Canadian, Scots, Irish and various regional English accents it doesn't arise, because all r's are pronounced.
I assume that's what your Englishwoman did... she wouldn't have put an r in without a following vowel. Unless you just mean she lengthened the 'a'.
Brian Pinas
Oi, does anyone know why on Earth they pronounce Chamakh in England as Chamahhh, or even worse Chamaaa? Surely the k should be left untouched.
Usually the commentators here in Scandinavia pronounces the names more or less correctly - but for some strange reason they struggle with Portuguese names. I have worked next to a portuguese guy for a few months so he I got him to teach me how to pronounce the names I was uncertain of.
For instance - they always say "Raul Meirelles" as it is written - but his name is supposed to be pronounced pretty close to "may-relsh"
And Bruno Alves' name is pronounces Bruno Alvesh.
For instance - they always say "Raul Meirelles" as it is written - but his name is supposed to be pronounced pretty close to "may-relsh"
And Bruno Alves' name is pronounces Bruno Alvesh.
Well explained Plech. I was trying to formulate an adequate explanation and you did a far better job than I would have managed.
Olazabal
feckin hell, that's a tough one and another example of how the name was heard to be pronounced 3 different ways.
off tangent a bit but some foreign names are funny. like for the Irish with Bern(h)ard Langer, cos his last name is slang for penis. in Cork anyway.
feckin hell, that's a tough one and another example of how the name was heard to be pronounced 3 different ways.
off tangent a bit but some foreign names are funny. like for the Irish with Bern(h)ard Langer, cos his last name is slang for penis. in Cork anyway.
Isn't the 'lisped' C sound just an Andalucian affectation?
No. When it comes to city names I always use the Anglicised version. I'd never say "I went on holiday to Munchen" because I'd sound like a pretentious twat.
I think it's common to most dialects of Castilian Spanish isn't it?
The beauty of Wikipedia
But I should have mentioned that it's only after the schwa vowel, as in "farmer" or "sofa", as well as -aw ("nor anyone"), -** ("her indoors") and -ah ("far and wide". So in fact you would hear it in Drogbaaa before a vowel... "Spots Drogbar in the box").
I think that's all of them. We wouldn't say "Sophie-r-Anderton" or "Waldo-r-Emerson". That would be totally spasticated.
The beauty of Wikipedia
But I should have mentioned that it's only after the schwa vowel, as in "farmer" or "sofa", as well as -aw ("nor anyone"), -** ("her indoors") and -ah ("far and wide". So in fact you would hear it in Drogbaaa before a vowel... "Spots Drogbar in the box").
I think that's all of them. We wouldn't say "Sophie-r-Anderton" or "Waldo-r-Emerson". That would be totally spasticated.
You've shattered my illusions.
Well I have read one proper linguistics paper on the phenomenon, but I didn't really understand what the feck it was on about.
http://www.lib.yamagata-u.ac.jp/you-campus/tsuruoka/kiyou-tsuruoka/38/p25-28.pdf
It's one of the briefer ones I could find, but still a right pain in the r's.
One that really annoys me is Bayern Munich. Why use both English and German at the same time?
To avoid confusion I just say Bayern.
To avoid confusion I just say Bayern.
What about how they pronounce our names? In Spain for example they add "eeschit" to the end of everything, I saw an England game over there once and all you heard in the pub was "Dónde está el reclamo de equipaje? Gareth Barry eeschit"
I don't understand why they don't simply ask people around them. I'm sure there are lots of staff around them from a whole lot of countries.
Then again these TV personalities can be stubborn. It took two years of my brother correcting them on how to pronounce Rosicky the right way. And he only learned it from a Czech cameraman.
It's hard for you English speaking lot since you skip so many letters when pronouncing words and they can be so different. In Iceland we pronounce every letter.
You say Steinsson like we would write it Stænsson. It's supposed to be Stains-son like in stainless steel.
Guðjohnsen has and 'ð' and not a 'd'. But it's to much of a hassle to explain for foreign folks.
Gronkjær could be pronounced in two different ways I think. Suppose to where you are from in Denmark. Grun- as in the word run. You have to speak danish to get the 'R' right though. The e part in 'the' can be substituted for the 'æ. So it's really Grun-kje.
I'm like Laphroig though and I do say the 'r' part in the end.
Then again these TV personalities can be stubborn. It took two years of my brother correcting them on how to pronounce Rosicky the right way. And he only learned it from a Czech cameraman.
It's hard for you English speaking lot since you skip so many letters when pronouncing words and they can be so different. In Iceland we pronounce every letter.
You say Steinsson like we would write it Stænsson. It's supposed to be Stains-son like in stainless steel.
Guðjohnsen has and 'ð' and not a 'd'. But it's to much of a hassle to explain for foreign folks.
Gronkjær could be pronounced in two different ways I think. Suppose to where you are from in Denmark. Grun- as in the word run. You have to speak danish to get the 'R' right though. The e part in 'the' can be substituted for the 'æ. So it's really Grun-kje.
I'm like Laphroig though and I do say the 'r' part in the end.
I think asking them is only part of the solution, because it's hard for English people to hear unfamiliar sounds clearly. They quickly assimilate them into something they know and often it's miles off.
I mean, a lot of the time people can't hear any difference between two sounds in their own languages that aren't considered at all similar in others.
Gronkjaer as he pronounces it sounds like "Yeshpa Gwonkyah" ['jɛʃpə 'gʷɔ̃ kjə] to me
He also sounds like he has a Geordie accent, which is interesting what with them being settled by Danes
Indeed, we should be saying Bavarian Munich.
But that's why I stick with Scheisse FC Bayern. Scheisse.
Carragher is pronounced:
cccchhhhhhharragher in scouse.
With cccchhhh prounced "ch" as in FACHT
cccchhhhhhharragher in scouse.
With cccchhhh prounced "ch" as in FACHT
Yes, thank you for the R. Icelandic >>>>>> Danish.Icelandic R thank you very much. No such thing as Norwegian. You have two languages
Oh one more, although it's getting much better as he got more famous.
When Mourinho first arrived at Chelsea, lots of commentators were calling him "Ho-say" Mourinho.
He's Portuguese FFS, not Spanish!!
When Mourinho first arrived at Chelsea, lots of commentators were calling him "Ho-say" Mourinho.
He's Portuguese FFS, not Spanish!!
I think that's the point people miss in these debates, pronouncing foreign names as if you were from the country makes no more sense than pronouncing Alan Shearer as if you were geordie or Steven Gerrard as if you were scouse.
You'd make a brilliant commentator.... Rod Elgar?
feck off, I thought you cut that bit out.
I got tremendously distressed when I got to Brazil and learned that the R at the start of their words, as well as double consonant Rs, are to be pronounced "h"... so it's "Heeyoo de Shahneyroo".
Honaldinho Gaúcho = Ronaldinho
Honaldinho Phenómeno = Ronaldo (fat one)
I daren't try to spell those out phonetically :|
Anyway, Plechers... at least your commentators aren't as bad as our Noggy match studio ring master... He regularly does a cock up that we usually only find in writing in Norwegian... å/og... å being "to" in front of infinitive verbs, and "og" meaning "and"... they're mostly pronounced the same around the country, but he actually manages to do the g-sound in og, in the wrong bloody context... "We're getting ready and start the match!" is essentially what I keep hearing. I'm quite close to sending him a terse letter.
Stavanger folk rape their Rs with their throats all the time... and you're also forgetting about the retroflex R, found in Trondheim, e.g.
But yeah, generally we do 'em proper... none of this porridge in your mouth while speaking Danish nonsense.
Honaldinho Gaúcho = Ronaldinho
Honaldinho Phenómeno = Ronaldo (fat one)
I daren't try to spell those out phonetically :|
Anyway, Plechers... at least your commentators aren't as bad as our Noggy match studio ring master... He regularly does a cock up that we usually only find in writing in Norwegian... å/og... å being "to" in front of infinitive verbs, and "og" meaning "and"... they're mostly pronounced the same around the country, but he actually manages to do the g-sound in og, in the wrong bloody context... "We're getting ready and start the match!" is essentially what I keep hearing. I'm quite close to sending him a terse letter.
Stavanger folk rape their Rs with their throats all the time... and you're also forgetting about the retroflex R, found in Trondheim, e.g.
But yeah, generally we do 'em proper... none of this porridge in your mouth while speaking Danish nonsense.
Hehe, I've noticed too. Other than that their broadcast are very laudable, probably better than their English counterparts.
Oh deffo... I love the wide variety of guests... That coach who came in and told us about the emotional and psychological aspect of players and their games was both hilarious and interesting. I generally love their broadcasts, but that one thing grates on me ;P
Teach them to say Ole Gunnar Solskjær, Erik. I can't write it out phonetically.
And Plech: "Yeshpa Gwonkyah" is pretty close to a danish pronounciation of Jesper Grønkjær but I would piss myself if I heard an English commentator attempt it.
And Plech: "Yeshpa Gwonkyah" is pretty close to a danish pronounciation of Jesper Grønkjær but I would piss myself if I heard an English commentator attempt it.