His debut, he was sensational when he came on vs Mexico too and showed sublime passing vs Holland.
Only God knows why he was left on the bench against Germany.
Messi is better than maradona....
- Thread starter VoetbalWizard
- Start date
His debut, he was sensational when he came on vs Mexico too and showed sublime passing vs Holland.
Only God knows why he was left on the bench against Germany.
Pekerman fecked up there, that's why he resigned, he realize he got scared and he made a big mistake
Like I said, I reckon 2014 may be his big tournament, and the time where even people like me start wondering whether there actually is a level above Diego. That said, I sort of thought Ronaldinho was going to show us something special too when he was 26 in 06... then again, he's more of a happy-go-lucky "let's have a few beers and some churrasco" Brazilian, which doesn't mix well with a top career... Diego was somewhere in between, with his penchant for the mad life as well as a love for getting his touch on the ball just right through hours and hours of playing with it.
Exciting times, certainly! He was a fraction away from being tremendous in 2010, but never quite got there... and certainly was far more visible in the group stages than the knock-out (though given fewer chances there, seeing as they got knocked out.) The opposite would be the hallmark of greatness to me, certainly when done several times, ala Zidane in 98 and 06.
MIGHT be guilty of revisionism there, as I'm not 100% sure of Zizou's play after the group stages in 98, but his performance in the final alone would excuse my lapse there.
He's blown hot and cold for me, then again I've not seen too much of him outside of the major tourneys for Argentina. I know he scored a goal in 06, but he was a fringe player then, only being subbed on. Which disappointed me, I'd been getting excited about him for two years, but he was young and fresh back from injury so I guess it made sense.
Can't really disagree with any of that... though hearing about Diego, Charlton, Pelé and the likes and then finally getting to download and watch full matches were two different things for me... the hype was tremendous, but I was still floored when I actually saw what a full match, or a full tournament, looked like for these players.
His choice of substitutions against Germany was inexcusable... The host nation, historically notorious for their never say die attitude, and with a World Cup pedigree... Take off Riquelme, and exhaust your subs without putting on Messi. I was in Argentina when that WC started, and saw the pre-tourney match against the U-21s... nobody dared tackle the fresh-from-injury Messi, and I thought he might be considered more important to the WC than he turned out to be, in Pekerman's eyes... Was gutted when he screwed it up to that extent, after I'd fallen in love with Argentina in the group stages.
*sigh*
as nicely proven by marcos deto. in that Maradona didnt exactly rip it up in the group stages that Argentina wouldnt have gotten out of if not for him...
The sad thing is that every time an old head that has seen these players or was alive at the time says something about them i tend to believe it. If they say they were all that i tend to think "who am i to argue" yet if i bothered my arse (marcos deto style) i might just find that even the old dears are blinded by the very things they smite the younger fans for.
yup, Pekerman had argentina playing great football. Yet in a game they were dominating against an inferior side he totally paniced. What a shame.
'Kin hilarious
I think Maradona is better than Messi (which it seems most football followers over the age of 40 think) and I'm an idiot
Now I'm told that I never even saw any football when I was younger - because youtube was'nt invented
Now I'm seeing clips of Messi's so called 'achievements' with the national side Argentina that attempt to portray him actually as having had a great international career - utter bollocks - he has'nt done enough in an national shirt on the big international stage and everyone knows it - even he knows it !
Bit keep laughing by all means.........I will
I think Maradona is better than Messi (which it seems most football followers over the age of 40 think) and I'm an idiot
Now I'm told that I never even saw any football when I was younger - because youtube was'nt invented
Now I'm seeing clips of Messi's so called 'achievements' with the national side Argentina that attempt to portray him actually as having had a great international career
- utter bollocks - he has'nt done enough in an national shirt on the big international stage and everyone knows it - even he knows it !Bit keep laughing by all means.........I will
I'm sure you're right and I'm sure after watching all these games myself I'll look back and think I was being such an arsey prick for talking about how much people had seen of them and really I'm just jealous they have seen him, but there you go. Hell, I watched a bloody friendly of Di Stefano's when he was into his mid-30s and I was amazed!
I wonder what's worse Perkerman's bottlejob against Germany or some of the blatant ommisions by Maradona for the 2010 world cup.
And then you have someone like Cruyff, who says he can judge a player within a matter of seconds. That's more in the context of transfers and fitting into systems, but it does open up the debate about how experienced and sophisticated the person making the judgement is.
peker's.
'Kin hilarious
I think Maradona is better than Messi (which it seems most football followers over the age of 40 think) and I'm an idiot
Now I'm told that I never even saw any football when I was younger - because youtube was'nt invented
Now I'm seeing clips of Messi's so called 'achievements' with the national side Argentina that attempt to portray him actually as having had a great international career
Bit keep laughing by all means.........I will
again, you are talking out of your arse
no one said that you are an idiot because you think that maradona was better than messi
all i'm saying that claiming that messi will never be at that level is stupid
and i'm saying that claiming that if messi had played for argentina instead of maradona in the 1990 wc we would had not pass the group stages is stupid
when i put that clip of messi scoring against Serbia it was in response to eriku saying "I'd agree with you on most points, but I'd add that if Messi really were as ridiculous as all that, why doesn't he slot into Argentina and score goals in a WC? "
now, get out of this thread, before you say another stupid thing
go
pekerman, by a mile, maradona, as a coach is completely clueless and i was expecting him to feck up
Pekerman indeed... he managed to leave out Zanetti as well.
Why do recent Argie coaches hate Zanetti?
Why do recent Argie coaches hate Zanetti?
It was a missed opportunity. Argentina played the best football in 2006 by a country mile.
Where and how did you see Maradona play Jopub? Particularly in his peak years?
That goes for Dreams as well
That goes for Dreams as well
Tell me something - did you actually watch all the games in that world cup?
Because if you're trying to tell me (who did watch practically every fking match) that Maradona did feck all then you either did'nt see a single game or were not yet born
You think not scoring means he was shite ?!
He did'nt play brilliantly, for him that is (smashing opponents to pieces in his usual mercurial way) in the opening games although still on his motivational captaincy and team play alone played a large part in pulling them through
Are you putting up the wiki link because that's where your info comes from ? Do you not remember his brilliance against Brazil - how his sheer physical presence helped squash the Brazillians into submission. I remember all of it and how mesmeric he was later against I think Yougoslavia and Italy?
Did you actually see those games live or not? I want to know because for all your posturing about him you sound like somebody who's read this and did not see it. I did see it and he was still fking incredible falling at the final hurdle where the Germans were simply too strong and basically reallised they only had to stop him and Argentina would do fk all
And fwiw there's is absolutely no way on this earth that this current Lionel Messi who's nothing like the strong character that Maradona was would have pulled that Argentina side through that competition
People can either believe what you're saying from a fking web page or listen to enough people that have watched these players live
I've heard of people trying to rewrite history to make a point but you're fking laughable. There's enough people on this site that actually watched that tournament live and leave them to judge just how fking rubbish you say Maradona was
Interesting that the people agreeing with you have only probably watched football for ten fking years
You may well have seen these games live back in Italia 1990 but if you did you've got a strange recollection of them
Did you or not ?
Tell me something - did you actually watch all the games in that world cup?
Because if you're trying to tell me (who did watch practically every fking match) that Maradona did feck all then you either did'nt see a single game or were not yet born
You think not scoring means he was shite ?!
He did'nt play brilliantly, for him that is (smashing opponents to pieces in his usual mercurial way) in the opening games although still on his motivational captaincy and team play alone played a large part in pulling them through
Are you putting up the wiki link because that's where your info comes from ? Do you not remember his brilliance against Brazil - how his sheer physical presence helped squash the Brazillians into submission. I remember all of it and how mesmeric he was later against I think Yougoslavia and Italy?
Did you actually see those games live or not? I want to know because for all your posturing about him you sound like somebody who's read this and did not see it. I did see it and he was still fking incredible falling at the final hurdle where the Germans were simply too strong and basically reallised they only had to stop him and Argentina would do fk all
And fwiw there's is absolutely no way on this earth that this current Lionel Messi who's nothing like the strong character that Maradona was would have pulled that Argentina side through that competition
People can either believe what you're saying from a fking web page or listen to enough people that have watched these players live
I've heard of people trying to rewrite history to make a point but you're fking laughable. There's enough people on this site that actually watched that tournament live and leave them to judge just how fking rubbish you say Maradona was
Interesting that the people agreeing with you have only probably watched football for ten fking years
You may well have seen these games live back in Italia 1990 but if you did you've got a strange recollection of them
Did you or not ?
again, you dont understand a word i say
maybe my english is not that good
read again and see that what i said is that is stupid to claim that without maradona and with messi we would have been disqualified from the group stages
go, read
and i too watched every single game, i was over 20 at that time, so don't try to pull your age to me, you might be older than me, but not for much
and as i said, and i repeat, maradona was playing in one foot and he could do very little for us during that world cup
Answered in part above.
Obviously in the whole world cup coverage which like now although fewer sides lasted a month
Also being the greatest player in the world for as long as he was meant coverage of his feats were common. The regular Saturday football pre game shows run by Leitch eventually becoming Focus showed him regularly.
If you are a fanatic like I was back in the day you also kept up to speed journalistically with what was going on in the Italian and Spanish leagues. Obviously we did not have today's coverage but it never stopped you seeing the greatest players on earth
Saw him live at Wembley as a kid 1980 and even then he was sensational
This is also true, says more about me than it does about anything else I guess! I'd never heard that quote, there seems to plenty of his floating about - certainly a player with one of the more interesting views on the game.
From what I've read apparently in a group huddle when they went out to play a match Zanetti told the players to ignore Maradona's tactics.
Maradona found out about this and dropped him from the squad.
I understand every fking word you say and as far as I am concerned having watched every ball of that world cup and those from 1966 - now - fk knows what you were watching because you talking Maradona was shite in that world cup is fking bollocks and Ill be amazed should anybody agree with you about that. One foot well he' s practically one footed anyway so clearlyhis left peg was actually working
Maradona was shit in Italia 1990 ?! - Are you on fking drugs of somekind or what?
Without Maradona they have not qualified and had it been the Lionel Messi we have right now they would not have - I'd stick my life on it
i saw him at the field countless times playing for argentinos juniors, for boca and for argentina
i saw him play every single game in 1987 copa america held in buenos aires, i saw him play for us in the qualifiers for mexico 1986, i saw him play for us against australia in december 1993 to qualify for USA 1994, i saw him in a game against the rest of the world where he scored a wonderfull goal, i think the goalie was italian dino zoff
World Youth Cup?
how old were you back then? in your fifties?
Anyway if I'm deadly being honest here Jopub I wouldn't take your recollection of a match that happpened 5 mins ago seriously.
Brilliant for you - then you know just how good he was then dont you.
Naa you just cant handle a opposing view nomatter how valid it might be
again, i didn¨t say he was shite
this is what i said:
"during the group stages in italy 1990 maradona did very little, in fact we suffer a defeat against cameroon, then we beat russia 2-0 and only because the stupid ref didnt saw a blattant penalty that maradona stupidly comited -touching the ball with his hands (in fact, in argentina is called "the second hand of god") and finaly we lamely tied against romania 1-1
maradona didn't score a goal"
maradona was in one foot, because he was injured, now tell me why we would have gone in the group stages if instead of him we would have had messi
i do know how good he was, yes
so? i still think that messi might achieve his level in the future
and that's exactly the opposite of what you said
+++++++++++++++++++
wrong - nothing like to the same degree
as near as it gets to a one-man-team (name any of the other players)
he did and was- he'd score a gazillion in this side
easily
I am assuming nothing - I saw a lot of both players and unlike you, I am not biased about this. Like I said, I didn't like they guy, he was a scumbag. There is no sentiment. Like many on here, you make your decision and then seek to justify without any prior knowledge of what you are talking about, esp maradonna's era, circumstances and you (like many others) clearly have seen little of him.
3 assumptions in one post despite stating you're assuming nothing
Some of you super oldheads crack me up.
He'd score a gazillion goals?
Another daft assumption, I just spotted that.
i don't know about napoli, at that time in argentina the italian games were not shown as much as they are now, because there was no espn or fox sports
but for argentina in 1986 he didn't win the cup by himself. He was the best player, but he was very well surrounded
mostly by players that at that time were in the argentina league
I watched every match Maradona played in every world cup. no question about his brilliance in 86. In 1990, I felt Argentina would not have got to the final if not for him. That was and remains very clear in my mind. I did not try and refresh it by watching any youtubes nor even the videos posted on this page. This one thing I remember so clearly. he made a brilliant pass to one of his players and he bungled it...cannot remember against whom...and Maradona just raised his hands and gestured..'I give it to you...and you feck it up' He was not just fighting the opposition but his own mediocre players around him...injured or not, he drove that team to the final. I remember him weeping as the Germans took the trophy...the man gave his all..and for his many faults will always remain a legend of the game.
in 94, he was still excellent..remember that fantastic freekick goal. and I still feel he and Argentina were just robbed of him being pulled out for those ridiculous charges.
As for his league matches? I remember a friend gave me a compilation tape of his performances in the Italian league. One season I think. I was just flabbergasted at his ability. I used to travel quite a bit too in those days. They were mad about the little fella in the Far East. It may be there that I saw this..sorry cant remember...too many good ol times
The other thing I remember about Maradona was how often he was kicked. I remember Gentile did only one thing the whole match...just kick the fella. he could have been sent off 10 times over in that match by modern refs.
He may have got into drugs, but I bet the clubs he played for injected him full of that crap when he was injured just to keep him going...little wonder then.
someone talked about fading memories...I will agree. but some of them will remain to my dying day.
Finally. These pages are for discussion and sharing such memories. Getting at people for sharing them no matter if they may or may not be flawed will just cause people not to bother eh
He was not just fighting the opposition but his own mediocre players around him...injured or not, he drove that team to the final. I remember him weeping as the Germans took the trophy...the man gave his all..and for his many faults will always remain a legend of the game.in 94, he was still excellent..remember that fantastic freekick goal. and I still feel he and Argentina were just robbed of him being pulled out for those ridiculous charges.
As for his league matches? I remember a friend gave me a compilation tape of his performances in the Italian league. One season I think. I was just flabbergasted at his ability. I used to travel quite a bit too in those days. They were mad about the little fella in the Far East. It may be there that I saw this..sorry cant remember...too many good ol times
The other thing I remember about Maradona was how often he was kicked. I remember Gentile did only one thing the whole match...just kick the fella. he could have been sent off 10 times over in that match by modern refs.
He may have got into drugs, but I bet the clubs he played for injected him full of that crap when he was injured just to keep him going...little wonder then.
someone talked about fading memories...I will agree. but some of them will remain to my dying day.
Finally. These pages are for discussion and sharing such memories. Getting at people for sharing them no matter if they may or may not be flawed will just cause people not to bother eh
I envy you mate.
My dad used to go on about Di Stefano and Garincha. Of course I knew all about Edwards and the lads.
He also always mentioned Finney.
Did you see him mate?
Napoli was an average side by all accounts until the little man took them to the title.
What little I did see of him for them was amazing.
There really is no comparison to any other player I saw...except Best.
3 assumptions in one post despite stating you're assuming nothing
Some of you super oldheads crack me up.
He'd score a gazillion goals?
Another daft assumption, I just spotted that.
don't be an idiot
I was referring to people making assumptions about the player without actually ever seeing him or seeing little of him which is clearly happening here
if you think Maradonna would struggle to score in this Barca side then ok, you win. Great argument
if you want to use my observation that many on here have seen little of Maradonna to win the argument then, wow, you've got me there. Messi wins.
were you around during Maradonna's era to make an informed judgement?
Like I said, I have little reason to go for Maradonna over Messi other than his impact on the game. I'd love to go for Messi, a much more likeable persona inasmuch as you can gather from their behaviour
Yep and what I find slightly mad is that like you I think he's an utter cheating scumbag - Messi seems to be a modest, charming young man, couldnt be more different
....and i'm sitting here defending the little fker!
but what a fking player though .........wow
My dad said Tom Finney was the greatest player he'd ever seen
..until Pele and George
Oh yeah I've had enough of defending Diego Marafkindona
I'm off to bed ....gniteBetter, he's watched him on youtube. Loads.
Mentioning Maradonna's achievements at Napoli is a bit unfair. He was older than Messi is now when he signed for them and 26 when he won the Serie A.