Milton Keynes Dons 4:0 Manchester United

Turnip · Aug 27, 2014

I was driving home while this entire match was on and i kept feeling the BBC Sport app go off and thought "Ooo we're hammering them, feel sort of bad for them as always with a lower league team but we need the morale." But when I saw it was actually 4-0 to them i just laughed and wasn't even surprised. Looking at the highlights seems they actually played really well, very positive and quick attacks and took their chances well. Helped them a bit that our defense was shocking, but still, they deserved the win, nice one MK Dons.

Fully Fledged · Aug 27, 2014

My big problem with last night was that we are playing a new system with a group of U21 players and there was no instruction from the side lines.
The kids were floundering out there and the coaching staff just left them to sink. No matter how bad the DM era was at least he was out there trying to tell them what he wanted.

Last night they just sat there looking grim offering no support or instruction what so ever.

FacerTheRed · Aug 27, 2014

Fully Fledged said:
My big problem with last night was that we are playing a new system with a group of U21 players and there was no instruction from the side lines.
The kids were floundering out there and the coaching staff just left them to sink. No matter how bad the DM era was at least he was out there trying to tell them what he wanted.

Last night they just sat there looking grim offering no support or instruction what so ever.

Tbh with ya i think Van Gaal written off this game from the start and used this opportunity for the deadwood and youth to play in a competitive game. Its seem logical, give them one last chance to prove themselves before the transfer market ends.

Now Van Gaal can clearly know who can leave now, he needed to really test these deadwood and youth players and give them one chance to proven themselves before actually building a team. Van Gaal knows what he is doing, normally he wouldn't tolerate for that kind of defeat but he looked not surprised at all. He asks for patient, he deserves to have it.

shadowcat · Aug 27, 2014

FacerTheRed said:
Tbh with ya i think Van Gaal written off this game from the start and used this opportunity for the deadwood and youth to play in a competitive game. Its seem logical, give them one last chance to prove themselves before the transfer market ends.

Now Van Gaal can clearly know who can leave now, he needed to really test these deadwood and youth players and give them one chance to proven themselves before actually building a team. Van Gaal knows what he is doing, normally he wouldn't tolerate for that kind of defeat but he looked not surprised at all. He asks for patient, he deserves to have it.

We all know who the deadwood is, all this talk about assessing and giving people chances is baloney. They've all had more than enough chances, the truth is we need more quality players in and have done for some time.

Sunny Jim · Aug 27, 2014

Didnt watch the game...can anyone tell me

1) what formation did we play, who played where
2) why was Kagawa taken off
3) how many good chances did we create
4) where did the goals come from

JeffBoomTetris · Aug 27, 2014

Sunny Jim said:
Didnt watch the game...can anyone tell me

1) what formation did we play, who played where
2) why was Kagawa taken off
3) how many good chances did we create
4) where did the goals come from

1) We played a 3-5-2, all fecking match.
2) He took a knock from an aerial challenge. Taken off for Januzaj
3) When Kagawa was on the field, we looked like creating something. After the sub, we had no authority in midfield. MK Dons bossed us and we were creating feck all.

4) Mostly from defensive mistakes.
1st: Evans just passed it to the MK Dons #10 in OUR box.
2nd: Our right side was left exposed. A cross comes in and goal.
3rd: We lost the ball in midfield. The defense completely lost its shape. Good passing from Dons and a good finish
4th: Comical. Absolute shambolic defending. Their striker looked like Messi when he powered through 3 defenders.

matherto · Aug 27, 2014

1) 3-5-2, looked like most players played where you'd expect.

DDG
Keane - Evans - Vermijl
Janko - Powell - Anderson - James
Kagawa
Hernandez - Welbeck

2) Clash of heads and then didn't really recover.
3) Not many at all.
4) Mistakes mainly.

FacerTheRed · Aug 27, 2014

shadowcat said:
We all know who the deadwood is, all this talk about assessing and giving people chances is baloney. They've all had more than enough chances, the truth is we need more quality players in and have done for some time.

yeah of course, we all know the deadwood. But Van Gaal is all about chances, that's why he is a great manager. unfortunately, the players he played out didnt step up. They failed and now Van Gaal knows which players truly doesn't have a future at united.

Diadem @t.banty · Aug 27, 2014

ChatBat said:
I have to say, reading some of the comments in this thread (and on the board overall) really leaves me flabbergasted.

Especially when it comes to criticizing certain players and blaming them for the performance tonight. There's 3 or 4 posters in here who specifically name dropped Kagawa (and to a lesser extent Welbeck) and mentioned how tonight is the final nail in the coffin that he simply sucks.

Do people truly not have eyes? Do they really not see that for the first 20 minutes of the game our attack was held together by Kagawa? Did they not notice how we were on the front foot this whole time? Do they not see how Kagawa kept shape and made Welbeck and (more importantly) Hernandez work together? Welbeck had a few dangerous runs while Kagawa was on the pitch and even supplied a superb cross for Hernandez in a dangerous area only for the guy to wet his pants and fall over.

Also, these posters I mentioned, are they incapable of noticing how once Kagawa went off our attacking shape completely dissolved? We needed someone else to step up and no one did. All our attacks became irrelevant and furthermore, completely ruined by Hernandez which in turn also made Welbeck ineffective as no one was able to orchestrate anything anymore.

I'm just mesmerized by how some people can get so much "opinion" wrong by watching exactly the same game as myself.

If anything, tonight's "final nail in the coffin" has been for Anderson and Hernandez from the "senior" players and, in my opinion, for Michael Keane from the "juniors" (he's had terrible performances every time he's played in the senior team). It also proved that Januzaj is nowhere near ready to play as a No. 10. The difference in team performance between Kagawa led No. 10 and Januzaj led No.10 was day and night. Januzaj should be played as a winger, that's where he is damn good at (and a 4-3-3 type of system can't come fast enough for him, the current 3-5-2 system sadly has no room for his talents).

Some people only see what they want to see when it comes to Kagawa and I'm looking at @Twigg, @dirkey, @Koroux, @ash G e.t.c.

SharkyMcShark · Aug 27, 2014

Sunny Jim said:
3) how many good chances did we create
4) where did the goals come from

Others have covered the first two, but on these questions

3) couple of long range speculative efforts that were off targets from Powell and Welbeck, and a few late half chances from closer in.

4)
1st goal: Evans inexplicably passes the ball right at their forward, unmarked in the box. Keane tries to get across to block their player with the ball, who passes to the now unmarked Grigg to slot into an empty net (de Gea had rushed out to narrow the angle). Adnerson could perhaps have got back to cover Griggs faster than he did. Awful from Evans, questionable (without culpability) from de Gea, and to be honest quite admirable calmness under pressure from whoever made the assist for Grigg.

2nd goal: Both Januzaj (playing right wingback at this point) AND Vermijl caught up the pitch so when they broke down the right Evans had to get across to cover the gap that would otherwise have been basically a direct run at goal from halfway. Anderson ran with Grigg from halfway and was ahead of him the entire time but he stopped running at the edge of the box and Grigg accelerated past him into a massive gap. Vermijl also culpable - he made to effort to try and mark anyone and like Anderson stopped running when he got to the edge of box.

3rd goal: Vermijl was sitting far too wide (basically in the normal left back spot), possibly because Reece James was quite high up the pitch. When he missed his interception Evans had to get across to try and block the pass from whoever made the assist (their number 10). This left a massive gap in the middle as Keane was also too wide and midfield tracking was non-existent, and Afobe just powered into the space. Lovely no look reverse ball and a nice finish though. Just when you thought things couldn't get worse we get done by a no look reverse through pass, from a League 1 side. Just kill me.

4th goal: Vermijl entirely cacks up his clearance, Evans gets done far too easily by a simple turn, and Keane is made to look a fool by an unlucky bounce, though arguably should have gone in a lot stronger (though what's the point by that time anyway)

Diadem @t.banty · Aug 27, 2014

Alex99 said:
Of course we're looking at past performances. That's how it's the final nail. He's had a load of other nails hammered in because of poor performances over the previous two seasons, and now a slightly above average 10 minutes against MK Dons is the final nail. I don't really agree that this performance is the final nail, but that's because I think his time ran out at the end of last season after showing absolutely nothing over the course of two seasons.

You can pick apart the individual performances of a teenager all you like (to prove a point I agreed with), but at the end of the day, Januzaj still managed to be far more impressive last season than Kagawa has been at all.

Mata was 10 times shit than Kagawa when he played on the wing last season and had the Media lambasting Moyes for playing him on the wing and when he eventually played in the centre, he was still shit not until Moyes had Kagawa playing with him and it was Kagawa who kept dropping deep into the midfield from the left to support Mata.
Let me ask you, how many times kagawa played in his position last season? Can't be more than 2 or 3 times.
Infact, his performance against Bayern and Swansea in the no 10 role is 5times better than anything Mata has ever did in the no 10 role for us because Kagawa is aint a second striker like Mata is, he's a damn playmaker!

Djemba-Djemba · Aug 27, 2014

I don't think we had a shot on target until we were 3-0 down.

It really was a gutless disgrace of a performance.

bugmat · Aug 27, 2014

GRon said:
Well one thing that this match shows is that Fletcher and Cleverly are much much better than our reserve midfielders. I am shocked to see people saying Anderson is better than either of them. If Ando played against Sunderland, they'd also have been able to put 3-4 past us.

But our reserve midfielders didn't play. I think Pearson + Prrreira would have been better than Nick "I'm really just languid not lazy at all" Powell + Anderson out there.

bugmat · Aug 27, 2014

GifLord said:
what do u mean by that?
they're mine recorded from SS channel

edit: U want proof ?

LOL I meant I stole 'em to use elsewhere thanks

Sunny Jim · Aug 27, 2014

Emdad Ahmed said:
1) We played a 3-5-2, all fecking match.
2) He took a knock from an aerial challenge. Taken off for Januzaj
3) When Kagawa was on the field, we looked like creating something. After the sub, we had no authority in midfield. MK Dons bossed us and we were creating feck all.
4) Mostly from defensive mistakes.
1st: Evans just passed it to the MK Dons #10 in OUR box.
2nd: Our right side was left exposed. A cross comes in and goal.
3rd: We lost the ball in midfield. The defense completely lost its shape. Good passing from Dons and a good finish
4th: Comical. Absolute shambolic defending. Their striker looked like Messi when he powered through 3 defenders.

Many thanks bro

Sunny Jim · Aug 27, 2014

SharkyMcShark said:
Others have covered the first two, but on these questions

3) couple of long range speculative efforts that were off targets from Powell and Welbeck, and a few late half chances from closer in.

4)
1st goal: Evans inexplicably passes the ball right at their forward, unmarked in the box. Keane tries to get across to block their player with the ball, who passes to the now unmarked Grigg to slot into an empty net (de Gea had rushed out to narrow the angle). Adnerson could perhaps have got back to cover Griggs faster than he did. Awful from Evans, questionable (without culpability) from de Gea, and to be honest quite admirable calmness under pressure from whoever made the assist for Grigg.

2nd goal: Both Januzaj (playing right wingback at this point) AND Vermijl caught up the pitch so when they broke down the right Evans had to get across to cover the gap that would otherwise have been basically a direct run at goal from halfway. Anderson ran with Grigg from halfway and was ahead of him the entire time but he stopped running at the edge of the box and Grigg accelerated past him into a massive gap. Vermijl also culpable - he made to effort to try and mark anyone and like Anderson stopped running when he got to the edge of box.

3rd goal: Vermijl was sitting far too wide (basically in the normal left back spot), possibly because Reece James was quite high up the pitch. When he missed his interception Evans had to get across to try and block the pass from whoever made the assist (their number 10). This left a massive gap in the middle as Keane was also too wide and midfield tracking was non-existent, and Afobe just powered into the space. Lovely no look reverse ball and a nice finish though. Just when you thought things couldn't get worse we get done by a no look reverse through pass, from a League 1 side. Just kill me.

4th goal: Vermijl entirely cacks up his clearance, Evans gets done far too easily by a simple turn, and Keane is made to look a fool by an unlucky bounce, though arguably should have gone in a lot stronger (though what's the point by that time anyway)

Thank you

Chris M · Aug 27, 2014

In the positive side, after last night who could really be upset of the likes of Anderson, Hernandes, Kagawa and Welbeck where offloaded. It is surely evident that they are on there way.
Indefensible performances from all of them, only omitting Evans because it would be crazy to get rid of another defender until we strengthen.

Sir A1ex · Aug 27, 2014

SharkyMcShark said:
4)
2nd goal: Both Januzaj (playing right wingback at this point) AND Vermijl caught up the pitch so when they broke down the right Evans had to get across to cover the gap that would otherwise have been basically a direct run at goal from halfway. Anderson ran with Grigg from halfway and was ahead of him the entire time but he stopped running at the edge of the box and Grigg accelerated past him into a massive gap. Vermijl also culpable - he made to effort to try and mark anyone and like Anderson stopped running when he got to the edge of box.

Also worth mentioning that as with (I think) all the others, the break came driectly from a mistake, as we needlessly gave the ball away of the half way line.

Pretty sure that I'm right in saying that for all four goals, we had controll of the ball (if you include Vermijl's shit header for the 4th) within 4 or 5 seconds prior to the goal being scored.

Drifter · Aug 27, 2014

@Sandwell_Ladies: We've just emailed @manutd for a friendly. Looking for an easy game before season begins.” https://vine.co/v/M3ve0B2wbJg

Alex99 · Aug 27, 2014

Diadem [USER=63673]@t.banty[/USER] said:
Mata was 10 times shit than Kagawa when he played on the wing last season and had the Media lambasting Moyes for playing him on the wing and when he eventually played in the centre, he was still shit not until Moyes had Kagawa playing with him and it was Kagawa who kept dropping deep into the midfield from the left to support Mata.
Let me ask you, how many times kagawa played in his position last season? Can't be more than 2 or 3 times.
Infact, his performance against Bayern and Swansea in the no 10 role is 5times better than anything Mata has ever did in the no 10 role for us because Kagawa is aint a second striker like Mata is, he's a damn playmaker!

Mata has been about as productive in 17 games for United than Kagawa has been in 50. Kagawa's been consistently crap and two good games changes nothing.

Arul said:
1. All I am saying is that Mata, Kagawa (and Janujaz) on the same team will produce much better football than anything we have seen in the last 3 games.

2. Do Man Utd fans not like quick, clever football?

3. Do they really think having Cleverly as a No 8 when Herrera is not playing is a better option than giving Kagawa a go there?

4. Do they really believe having Nani on the left wing when we are looking for a goal produces more goal scoring chances than having Kagawa there?

5. Do they really think playing Rooney and Hernandez together on top provides enough stretching of the play to open up defenses?

6. That's 3 positions Kagawa could have played in the last 2 PL games without affecting Mata, which would have been huge improvements to what we actually had (personal opinion with hindsight of course...)

The rest of the post was just babble.

1. Januzaj, Kagawa and Mata in the same XI would be a disaster. None of them really offer anything defensively, so a team that already looks vulnerable on the counter would be left even more open at the back.

2. They obviously do. Kagawa has barely been able to help with that in his time here. A good 10 minutes against MK Dons before getting injured is hardly an advert for his skills.

3. Kagawa can't play No. 8. LVG has said as much. He tried him in the midfield two and said he wasn't good enough.

4. Nani's not even at the club anymore. Again though, Kagawa has been awful on the wing, and in a system that's been using wing-backs instead of wingers, he'd probably manage to be even worse.

5. I don't think anyone wants Hernandez at the club anymore so this point is redundant. Clearly any strike partnership including Hernandez doesn't work, which is why I think we'll see him gone soon.

6. Kagawa has been given two seasons worth of chances in central midfield, on the wing, up front, and in his favoured No. 10, and he's been bang average everywhere apart from the odd game. I'm not real

DomesticTadpole · Aug 27, 2014

bugmat said:
Nice gifs *stolen*

Disappointed with Evans adn Cheech msot of all. Some of the defender lads like keane , James are just not close to ready - it's no wonder only Blackett has gotten serious game. Wilson & perreira looked good.

I agree with this, especially young James. He has been catapulted into this situation because of injuries. Without them he would just be making a steady progress through the ranks. I was expecting better from Keane. He has had a couple of loans and tbh is going backwards.

DomesticTadpole · Aug 27, 2014

GRon said:
BTW, what is the lowest average rating any player has got in a match in caf history?

1.7 to Evans and Hernandez has to be close to that record (Caf does not allow 0 ratings BTW).

They should allow 0 ratings, I was struggling with some of them to even justify a 1 rating.

kelvmufc · Aug 27, 2014

redrash said:
are you serious - grow the feck up

feck up you. The system clearly isn't working, the last 3 games aren't a surprise to me because although we won all our preseason games we never played well in them. It was slow in all of them and now they are catching up with us in the prem. you can't play slow in the English football you will get torn apart like we have been

DanNistelrooy · Aug 27, 2014

Chris M said:
In the positive side, after last night who could really be upset of the likes of Anderson, Hernandes, Kagawa and Welbeck where offloaded. It is surely evident that they are on there way.
Indefensible performances from all of them, only omitting Evans because it would be crazy to get rid of another defender until we strengthen.

Kagawa was fine for the first 15 minutes he played. Welbeck also was a threat, I wouldn't be happy with selling him at all. Agree with Anderson and Hernandez

KiD MoYeS · Aug 27, 2014

Now the dust has settled I'm just glad we no longer have to see some of these players in a red shirt again.

It was an utterly shambolic performance, but we must remember it was largely fringe players who have both received little to no game time and have yet to familiarize themselves with a new system. The hunger and urgency was not there, but this is not a new problem.

SqueakyWeasel · Aug 27, 2014

The over-reaction in the press and media this morning is not surprising but seems a little bit too dramatic and sensationalist IMHO. Oggy in the DT is now saying it's all SAF's fault for 5 years of cautious spending (but only because the scot will generate more disqus traffic than blaming it all on the Glazer family who were really in control of the purse-strings towards the end of his reign).

It's fair enough for all the ABUs to gloat, and expected in a way, but it's not as if a team made up of second string / youth players losing badly to lower league opposition in the league cup is unheard of or the end of the world. it's embarrassing, yes but that's about it and we must take it on the chin.

I think what has surprised me most is the way other footballers are taking to Twitter to gloat. It must mean they are all supremely confident of never losing another match in their carreers … do they not know how many Manchester United fans there are in the world?

pauldyson1uk · Aug 27, 2014

It was the leauge cup which is not really important and a team full of kids and part time first teamers.
MK Dons saw their change of a shock and took it very well.
Yes I was pissed off but what the hell, fair play to them.

quackattack · Aug 27, 2014

Emdad Ahmed said:
3) When Kagawa was on the field, we looked like creating something. After the sub, we had no authority in midfield. MK Dons bossed us and we were creating feck all.

Was highly unfortunate. This could be his time to show what he was/is worth, instead he was taken out far too soon and when injured there is not really much to do about it. I just hope he will have a chance to prove it even now with ADM and Mata being untouchable (something which is disgusting).

Garfield's Lasagna · Aug 27, 2014

My main question is why is the Wilson lad not being given more time, scored twice for the first team already, looks tasty in the reserves.

He actually has a first touch, which Welbad doesn't, nor will ever have, I'd rather see Welbeck & the rest of the trash go and some of these younger players get a lot more exposure to the first team. It's going to be a few years of rebuilding, may as well give the kids a go in that time.

dirkey · Aug 27, 2014

Diadem [USER=63673]@t.banty[/USER] said:
Some people only see what they want to see when it comes to Kagawa and I'm looking at @Twigg, @dirkey, @Koroux, @ash G e.t.c.

Interesting you name me, given i mentioned him not once in this game. What I have said, repeatedly, about kagawa is that he has been average in a red shirt, and that Mata is better. If that's only seeing what I want to see, then sue me. People who love him are so sensitive to the slightest criticism.

SharkyMcShark · Aug 27, 2014

I tried to submit player ratings and it said "you must pick a rating between 1-10 for each player".

I don't actually agree with that.

Alex99 · Aug 27, 2014

dirkey said:
Interesting you name me, given i mentioned him not once in this game. What I have said, repeatedly, about kagawa is that he has been average in a red shirt, and that Mata is better. If that's only seeing what I want to see, then sue me. People who love him are so sensitive to the slightest criticism.

It's somewhat ironic coming from the Kagawa Fan Club. They're all singing his praises after an alright ten minutes against MK Dons, but seem to have missed the majority of the last two seasons where he's been average at best. I posted it in the Kagawa thread, but I'll repeat it here for their benefit. Mata, in just 17 appearances, has already assisted and scored 11 goals, split 7 goals and 4 assists. Kagawa, in 50 appearances, has assisted and scored 14, split 6 goals and 8 assists. When you keep in mind that half of his goals came in one game, he's been incredibly unproductive, and he certainly doesn't offer a lot to our overall play.

pierrethesnack · Aug 27, 2014

I'm not too disappointed, all things considered. Sure, it's incredibly embarrassing and sad, but it doesn't weaken my belief in LvG one bit.

1) We played with many players with little first team experience

2) We played with some players who haven't performed for over a year, why should they do so last night?

3) We played with some players who know that their future does not lie at Manchester United. They're head is elsewhere, and it shows

4) Our boss in defense had been out injured for a long time and was obviously rusty, to put it mildly. No wonder the younger players fell through with no experienced players to lead the way

5) MK Dons are a league one side, sure, but they are in excellent form these days (from what I've heard) and almost all their players have more first team experience than ours. Sure, all of our youngsters have the potential to be more talented than MK Dons's, but as of today they lack they're all unfinished products.

6) Most of our goals were conceded in ridiculous ways. Passing the ball to the opponents in the box, Anderson of all people, left to defend the box against crosses, etc. These things don't happen in normal games.

This doesn't take away the fact that MK Dons did well. I'm happy for them, but there's no need to despair!

AndyMUFC · Aug 27, 2014

That team should still have been good enough to get a result. It wasn't even close.

The youngsters that played have somewhat of an excuse but the senior players that played (bar Welbeck) were a disgrace. Evans was awful and Anderson and Hernandez both contributed absolutely nothing.

A side including Anderson, Januzaj, Welbeck and Hernandez took 70 + minutes to even have a shot on target against a League One side. When you look at it like that, it's woeful.

pierrethesnack · Aug 27, 2014

AndyMUFC said:
That team should still have been good enough to get a result. It wasn't even close.

The youngsters that played have somewhat of an excuse but the senior players that played (bar Welbeck) were a disgrace. Evans was awful and Anderson and Hernandez both contributed absolutely nothing.

A side including Anderson, Januzaj, Welbeck and Hernandez took 70 + minutes to even have a shot on target against a League One side. When you look at it like that, it's woeful.

It's woeful, I agree, but I'd take a 4-0 defeat at MK Dons in the League Cup (with a disjointed and random team) over a 1-2 defeat at Old Trafford against Swansea (with our strongest XI currently available) any day.

Today's disappointment will be nothing compared to the disappointment on Sunday if we lose or draw at Burnley.

GifLord · Aug 27, 2014

bugmat said:
LOL I meant I stole 'em to use elsewhere thanks

oh np with that
U can share them anywhere u want

Twigg · Aug 27, 2014

Diadem [USER=63673]@t.banty[/USER] said:
Some people only see what they want to see when it comes to Kagawa and I'm looking at @Twigg, @dirkey, @Koroux, @ash G e.t.c.

I've not mentioned Kagawa once.

Oo0AahCantona · Aug 27, 2014

pierrethesnack said:
Today's disappointment will be nothing compared to the disappointment on Sunday if we lose or draw at Burnley.

We need a win, and fast. theres going to be absolute mayhem if we lost to burnley.

FergieYouBeauty · Aug 27, 2014

it took us 72 minutes to have a shot on goal.

I'm fecking amazed some people are making excuses for this shit

Unlikely lad · Aug 27, 2014

Mato87 said:
Really 18% for MK fecking Dons to win 5:0? Now that is just silly, when did redcafe become this miserable? I know the results aren't what we are wishing to be, but the team is an utter mess, if you think about it, it's laughable that the likes of Fletcher, Cleverley, Young, Evans and Fellaini are playing for Manchester United.
It will get better, once LVG separates the wheat from the chaff.

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