No, the people problem has always been there. Racism is basically tribalism a by product of family building which is coded into our DNA since millenia. Whats changed now is that people have found newer and more effective methods of expressing their racism. Definitely a problem of social media. Put it this way, a racist would've had to buy a ticket to watch a team at the stadium, get a group of like minded racists together and then try and get a seat close to the pitch then make racist chants against the players to express his racism. Now he just needs access to internet.
Paul Pogba racially abused on social media
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
Yeah I've been dealing with some crazy jet-leg - just arrived in France yesterday. Was up till 4am last night taking part in this!You 2 are still going?
Neville went ott but some treat it like he started a race war.
Pogba has had blue hair, he dabs at carrington, had an emoji and didn't like Jose. The fans have never taken to him, he got abused by his own fans at OT last season and despite being our best outfield performer over the duration of his three years back, he's held up as the standard bearer for our decline.
Some people can't see past their own dislike to understand the issue is more with Neville bringing negativity en masses to the club, than the individual. We've had a good start to the season why isn't the focus positive. Ole doesn't need distraction.
As for Pogba's personality justifying the criticism, my hero Bryan Robson flirted with juve and has admitted he'd have liked to have moved at the time. Was caught way over the drink drive limit whilst a player at the club which is abhorrent, and was a known womaniser and massive drinker.
I suppose that's fine though. I stuck to football, didn't judge the person. He obviously wasn't the person I thought he was
Some people can't see past their own dislike to understand the issue is more with Neville bringing negativity en masses to the club, than the individual. We've had a good start to the season why isn't the focus positive. Ole doesn't need distraction.
As for Pogba's personality justifying the criticism, my hero Bryan Robson flirted with juve and has admitted he'd have liked to have moved at the time. Was caught way over the drink drive limit whilst a player at the club which is abhorrent, and was a known womaniser and massive drinker.
I suppose that's fine though. I stuck to football, didn't judge the person. He obviously wasn't the person I thought he was
How many millions of people all across the globe watch televised Man Utd games? How many of those watch Gary Neville's post match punditry? Probably a tiny fraction of that number. The chances that Neville's comments were even heard by the racist twitts, let alone influenced them, are equally small.
There are numerous articles in the national media about Pogba getting racist tweets and I've not seen one of them suggesting that Neville's comments might have been a factor. Funny how it's only a small selection of Utd fans who seem to be wanting to grind that particular axe.
The problem is fairly simple, you are talking about a racist and that's the only problem.
You are describing xenophobia, which is normal. Racism is systematic and premeditated. Xenophobia is reactionary.
I don't think it's that small. He is a pundit for Sky Sports, the only channel in the UK that was showing the game. Millions will have seen his comments.
Regardless, let me ask you. Do you think that Neville's comments were fair or overly critical? If it's the latter (which I think it is), then Neville is feeding the current agenda against Pogba which is to criticise him for the smallest mistake.
This agenda as a whole is what leads to the disgusting antics we saw on Twitter a couple of days ago. So, in my opinion, Neville is partly responsible for the general stick that Pogba takes. Of course, the idiots on Twitter may not have seen his comments and were going to abuse him anyway. However, take a look at the amount of ridiculous stick that Pogba has taken from pundits over the years, they are 100% complicit when things like this occur.
For sure. However, what isn't so speculative is that Neville has contributed to the agenda against Pogba by calling him selfish etc. It's not helpful and it's something that black players (not just black players I know) have to put up with a lot.
I'm surprised Neville hasn't said anything on this yet.
The only place I have seen or heard anyone imply that Gary Nevilles rant may have led to Pogba getting racist abuse is United fans on here . I have rewatched the rant and he just comes across as a massive United fan who obviously dislikes Pogba for not holding the club in the same high esteem that he himself does , there is absolutely no hint whatsoever of any racist undertones and to link him to the idiots that abused Pogba is totally feckin wrong in my book . Gaz wants United players of the same mentality of himself and Scholes who would never dream of a move away from the club and give everything while they are in pursuit of major trophies . The big difference is the club is not the same as when he played as we are no longer winning stuff under the guidance of the greatest manager the game has ever seen .
Top class post here, and alot of common sense and truth. I`m fully in agreement with all your points.
Sad part is that most fans including match day goers are not the smartest, they read and believe whatever they see on garbage quality papers liek the sun and the daily mail. And all the negative press about pogba. Which funnily enough the english press likes to pick on a foreign player, the first I remeber was balotelli, and he was hounded out of england by the press,
Sad part is Pogba is one fo the worlds best at his position and the only true world class player in our team, and he is also being hounded out by media fabrications and assaults on his character
The saddest part is when your own fans believe what these papers say, And what baffles me is that cnut who heckled Pogba at the tunnel, and the fans cheering him on. What team boos their best player, just baffling to me.
No one heckles Lingard, rashford, jones, smalling, young just because they put in a "shift" whcih is what every player from 1st place to 20th place do, if you dont put in a basic shift you wont be in the team, simple as. Running as a headlless chicken does not win you games.
Its people like Pogba who have the brains and the skill to win you games, I cant believe why were hounding him out, instead of appreciating him, makes zero sense to me.
And all the pundits really have him singled out too, which idk is akin to professional bullying to me.
And that's exactly why we're so angry with the press and Neville in particular right now.
He's always made out to be the BAD GUY and a scapegoat because of these things. Who cares if he dyes his hair? and if he posts videos of himself dancing?
When he first joined everybody loved him, opposition fans raved about him and couldn't wait to sign him. Suddenly he became a poor player because he chose United.
He's under a microscope way more than any other player, his standards are held up to Messi/Ronaldo level when it's not possible.
The last time Neville had a rant on sky the very next day old Trafford was singing songs against the board, defending Jose. His over reaction to a penalty miss over a guy who has divided the fanbase anyway will have triggered plenty of people
The funny thing about Pogba is that at some point people forgot that he is only 26. Midfielders are rarely in their prime at that age, I couldn't even name a midfielder that was in his prime between 23 and 26 years old. If he is like most players, he should be a lot better in the next 6 years.
I can`t see him being here for the next 6 years though so no doubt Madrid , Juve , PSG or whoever should do well with him .
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His brother appearing on Spanish TV last week saying that he wanted to leave.
Plenty of legitimate reasons as to why Pogba isn't liked by United fans. The biggest one being that he doesn't want to be here and has been planning his escape route for a while now.
Guardiola saying that Raiola offered him to City only 18 months after he joined.
His brother appearing on Spanish TV last week saying that he wanted to leave.
Plenty of legitimate reasons as to why Pogba isn't liked by United fans. The biggest one being that he doesn't want to be here and has been planning his escape route for a while now.
He's more likely to "keep it simple" like people keep asking also.
TBH I never liked him in a 3 man midfield, I find he was more likely to try and dribble and be creative, but he was easier to trap into a corner and limit.
From the deep midfield position he's got the ability to use his passing range, hold off a presser and in the right occasion dribble up the pitch if there's space.
As we've seen his recovery stamina isn't the best, he used to gas quite easily trying to carry the ball 3/4 of the pitch on a counter. He's less likely to gas out now playing this position, so we've seen he's got more puff to tackle and chase markers. His stats are reflecting that too.
He will lay on plenty of opportunities to the forwards, it's up to the rest to create.
I think that Neville was certainly overcritical. Pundits always are for some reason when a player misses a penalty, even though nobody would have given it a second thought if the goalie had dived the other way and it went in. Pogba is not the first player to be on the end of it and Gary isn't the first pundit to be overcritical. Mourinho was overcritical of Lampard last week in my opinion. His punditry colleagues were often overcritical of Mourinho when he was managing. I've never heard any criticism that made me want to post abuse to somebody on social media though, probably because i'm not an arsehole. If I was, I'd post abuse irrespective of Gary Neville's, or anyone elses opinions.
And even more impressive is he made a name for himself between 19 and 23. Played CL final, Euro final, voted into FIFA World 11 and 4 Italian League titles.
The last three years was very frustrating for him stuck in a weak team, the only real highlight being the WC.
Has anyone outside of the caf actually accused him of anything?
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Seems like a sensible idea. If the accounts that post this bile can be linked with actual people, those people should be prosecuted (and, needless to say, get lifetime bans from football stadia).
Good. Social media companies need to step up. Not just in high profile cases.
It is absolutely disgusting how Pogba is being treated by the media in this country. I don't blame him for wanting to go to Spain.
They've moved on from Sterling to him. It's uncomfortable to see.
They've moved on from Sterling to him. It's uncomfortable to see.
A lot on twitter were having a go at him.
Millionaire footballers have the resources to easily track down whoever posted it and anonymously hire someone to beat the living crap out of them.
Yep, they should do what Jay & Silent Bob did to their critics.
Can we also nip in the bud this delusion that he wants to go to Spain because of the media's and United fan's behaviour towards him? Talk about rewriting reality.
He's a 3 season per club player, he wouldn't be a Raiola client if he thought otherwise.
He's a 3 season per club player, he wouldn't be a Raiola client if he thought otherwise.
To be fair, Twitter is a cesspit (as evidenced by the topic of this thread) - Neville would probably do well to simply ignore it.
Quite. It's not as if he can be expecting his treatment to improve over in Spain:
Real Madrid must close part of Bernabeu after racist chanting
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/27637376
Is racism endemic in Spanish football?
https://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/05/...l-atletico-madrid/index.html?no-st=9999999999
Real Madrid fans are also hardly known for their undying support for their players. They'll be whistling him as soon as he misplaces his first pass.
Raiola players don't move more than others. And it's actually french media that love that idea, they do it for all french players since Zidane became manager, before that it was Arsenal frenchies and everyone wanting to join Wenger.
There must have been some truth to this though.
Pires, Henry, Anelka, Viera, Wiltord, Sagna, Petit, Gallas, Flamini, the list is practically endless. They all wanted to play for Arsenal, or under wenger rather. At least it seemed that way.
My take on this is that I initially loved Maguire's idea of linking social media accounts to a license or passport and hold people accountable for their views, but thinking about it more I think it's actually a bad idea.
First of all, some context about a platform like Twitter, 80% of the content generated on there is done so by less than 20% of the accounts, what that means is that what you're seeing most of the time on twitter is actually written by a minority that doesn't represent the 'world' or 'people in general'. It's a minority, and usually they are the loudest.
Twitter is also a very important platform for breaking stories, whistle-blowing, corruption, etc. This is mostly possible due to the benefit of anonymity. There are positives to allowing people to remain anonymous on social media platforms like Twitter, the problem is you will have trolls, racists, etc that come out and use this to their advantage as well. However, they are, again, a small minority that just happens to be loud. Should that be enough to threaten the positive benefits of keeping that anonymity? That's a question I'm not smart enough to answer, but I'm leaning towards the negative. I think everything should be done to stamp out racism in stadiums, and what's more, it can be done far easier than to try and regulate the internet or its social media. Between cameras, security, feedback from others, it should be possible to imagine not preventing racism, but at least stamping it out and eradicating its perpetrators within days of any incident so that they are not allowed back again not just at their stadium, but any stadiums anywhere. A blacklist that would spread across all major club and international competitions.
First of all, some context about a platform like Twitter, 80% of the content generated on there is done so by less than 20% of the accounts, what that means is that what you're seeing most of the time on twitter is actually written by a minority that doesn't represent the 'world' or 'people in general'. It's a minority, and usually they are the loudest.
Twitter is also a very important platform for breaking stories, whistle-blowing, corruption, etc. This is mostly possible due to the benefit of anonymity. There are positives to allowing people to remain anonymous on social media platforms like Twitter, the problem is you will have trolls, racists, etc that come out and use this to their advantage as well. However, they are, again, a small minority that just happens to be loud. Should that be enough to threaten the positive benefits of keeping that anonymity? That's a question I'm not smart enough to answer, but I'm leaning towards the negative. I think everything should be done to stamp out racism in stadiums, and what's more, it can be done far easier than to try and regulate the internet or its social media. Between cameras, security, feedback from others, it should be possible to imagine not preventing racism, but at least stamping it out and eradicating its perpetrators within days of any incident so that they are not allowed back again not just at their stadium, but any stadiums anywhere. A blacklist that would spread across all major club and international competitions.
So the ad break has just finished, we're live back in the studio, the Sky host turns to Neville and say’s ’So Gary, what do you think about the massive turning point, the penalty situation?’
My thinking is if he replied along the lines of, ‘We move on, it’s in the past and we focus on the next game. I’m sure if next week we get a penalty Pogba will smash it in’, I still think sadly Pogba would have received the same kind of abuse.
If Pogba was to put all his life savings into building child cancer hospitals all around the world he would still get online abuse. There are always going to be those kinds of people/groups/governments out there that want to divide people and watch things burn (yes I’ve got my tinfoil hat on at the moment).
If you want to say people like Neville (and one day it could be you) need to start watching their speech because of what anonymous Twitter users might say, then it’s a murky road to go down.
I personally hope Neville is right and Pogba can go on to be the player of the season.
youtu.be/qWjhfgXxKv0?t=226
My thinking is if he replied along the lines of, ‘We move on, it’s in the past and we focus on the next game. I’m sure if next week we get a penalty Pogba will smash it in’, I still think sadly Pogba would have received the same kind of abuse.
If Pogba was to put all his life savings into building child cancer hospitals all around the world he would still get online abuse. There are always going to be those kinds of people/groups/governments out there that want to divide people and watch things burn (yes I’ve got my tinfoil hat on at the moment).
If you want to say people like Neville (and one day it could be you) need to start watching their speech because of what anonymous Twitter users might say, then it’s a murky road to go down.
I personally hope Neville is right and Pogba can go on to be the player of the season.
youtu.be/qWjhfgXxKv0?t=226
This. Twitter is bloody awful for this kind of crap, if this and the Chelsea case end up highlighting it so and forcing twitter to step up some small good will come out of an awful situation.
Lets see some real life consequences for internet trolls if possible.
The problem is that every players were linked to them when most didn't care about Arsenal. Of course Wenger will try to sign the best of them if he can but it doesn't mean that every player was bound to sign for them. It's important to remember that the press will try to make links that create clicks, in the past it used to be Arsenal, now it's Real Madrid. And interestingly, Pogba is supposed to be more Barcelona than Real Madrid.
You keep missing the point. Neville has a worldwide platform and he's a United legend. This is isn't the first time he's had his crosshairs on Pogba. Last season he virtually placed the blame on him for Mourinho's sacking and called him "rotten" on live television after the Everton match. The point that I and many other keep trying to make is a) he should keep his negative biases against Pogba to himself and b) he should know better due to his platform and stature at the club. Mind you his platform isn't the Caf or 4chan.
It's not a murky road to say to people with influence, like Neville, to stop disproportionately vilifying and scapegoating players, especially who susceptible to abuse.
No mention of linking the tweets to Neville anywhere except this thread.
That's because this thread has been hijacked by 3 or 4 posters who have invented a conflation to benefit their own agenda. If they have their way, anyone who criticises Pogba has racist motivations.
The club is dealing with the actual issue which is Pogba's abuse, which is great. Aside from joining the club in condemning the racists, there is nothing else to see.
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What specific agenda is that?
You're just jumping from thread to thread not adding anything substantive. Quite funny.
There is one thing they both have in common.... It is shameful