2019/20 Rivals - Chelsea

Dave Smith

Full Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Messages
2,517
Supports
Anything anti-Dipper
For me Chelsea have done very well this season. I had predicted them to be finish between 6th-8th. I mean, just look at their defence and GK. Further, their CF's are Abraham (bottom PL/top end Championship striker), Giroud (33 year old limited striker) and Batshuayi (who is god awful. I seriously question if he knows what the offside rule is.)

After that you then need to look at their squad profile. They have virtually no one in the 25-30 year old range, with most of their squad being either side of it.

Personally, I think they're going to just miss out on the CL as I think they will be done in by Leicester via GD. However, a 5th place finish is still decent all things considered and much better than what most people would've thought with their ban and losing Hazard who had essentially carried them by himself since Costa left.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
12,557
Bullhitter said:
Have either of them done anything that many other coaches couldn't have done? The downside, which i think applies more to Frank than Ole as he is a bigger figure at Chelsea than Ole is at United, is that things will be allowed to go further south before action is taken, mistakes airbrushed etc because of who he is. The best example of that was Dalglish at Liverpool, was clearly out of his depth and had he had no association to the club previously would have been long since sacked prior to when he eventually left. S sometimes, probably most times, these appointments bring little upside for the potential downside that come with them.
Click to expand...
I would like to think they have done what other coaches couldn't have done. With Manutd we have evidence of this. Frank has given the youth a chance, like no other manager would. He is getting rid of the old guard, same as Ole has got rid of Deadwood. They care for the clubs future over immediate future.

You can see both managers building a squad for the long run rather than instant impact. Again, both coaches trying to play football the way fans want.
 

caid

Full Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2014
Messages
8,312
Location
Dublin
Bullhitter said:
Have either of them done anything that many other coaches couldn't have done? The downside, which i think applies more to Frank than Ole as he is a bigger figure at Chelsea than Ole is at United, is that things will be allowed to go further south before action is taken, mistakes airbrushed etc because of who he is. The best example of that was Dalglish at Liverpool, was clearly out of his depth and had he had no association to the club previously would have been long since sacked prior to when he eventually left. S sometimes, probably most times, these appointments bring little upside for the potential downside that come with them.
Click to expand...
Getting us to play good football is pretty novel to be honest. Van Gaal managed about 4 games in 2 years and even when we were winning we were pretty shit under Mourinho.
I cant speak for Chelsea but it looked like they needed a fair bit of surgery and rebuilding this season. Being on the verge of finishing in the top 4 after scraping in last season and losing the best player in the league seems a decent performance to me. Surely some of Mount, Abraham, Pulisic, Hudson Odoi etc have some future at the club? Would they and the club not benefit from the games? He seems to play good football, seems to have gotten good form from the midfielders. Defence hasn't looked great for a pretty long time, so not sure how much credit you'd give him for that.
 

Gringo

Full Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2019
Messages
3,402
Supports
Portugal
Chelsea could have very easily done an Arsenal this season. For that some credit has to be given.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

New Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
13,127
Supports
Erik ten Hag
Lampard is doing fine imo. The board wanted them to finish top 4 but also probably is fine if Lampard miss it. I think the board can see lot of positive that Lampard brought in to Chelsea.

They haven't replace Hazard properly. Pulisic wasn't Lampard's signing and his end product at Dortmund doesn't justify to replace Hazard, that's why Lampard is going after Havertz.

Morata was replaced by Championship striker Tammy because that's his only choice, don't know how Lampard managed to get him into 14 league goals this season for a player like him (don't rate him as top striker), working on miracle with him. There is a reason why Lampard wants an upgrade and signed Werner.

Fixing Chelsea defense will be massive job for him and so far him & his coaching staffs haven't shown a good sign of good coaching on his defense. We'll see if the defense will get better with new signings.
 

groovyalbert

it's a mute point
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
9,686
Location
London
Gringo said:
Chelsea could have very easily done an Arsenal this season. For that some credit has to be given.
Click to expand...
In fairness, so could we. In fact, that's exactly where we would be without Bruno.

Other than the top 2, you've got about 6 who could quite feasibly have switched positions had things gone slightly different this season.

I don't expect it to be the case next year. I think us and Chelsea will be much closer to Liverpool and City.
 

Mr Smith

Full Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2015
Messages
4,020
Location
Australia
They have done well, but they're flawed. I think it will take at least another season, maybe even another two, to work out if Lampard is a top manager. He needs to get the balance right, and make them a solid team defensively while keeping their threat moving forward.

Their current iteration doesn't scare me at all, and I'm not even that worried about them next season adding the attackers they've brought in. Currently they remind me a bit of Wenger's Arsenal at the turn of the 2010's; really dangerous going forward and playing great football, but vulnerable at the back. If their defence starts to improve I'll be concerned.
 

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
58,021
Location
Canada
Defensively they're a mess but I also think they're probably less reliant on individual player quality than we are. They have much better depth than us but our starting 11 is definitely far ahead of them, in terms of individuals (not really in terms of performance). Abramovich is way more determined to get a top team as well, as evidenced by their transfers already. So saying that, I think they'll challenge seriously sooner than we will. Partly because I think Lampard knows how to get a good attacking style, and has the depth and quality to outscore plenty of teams, but also partly because I have no doubt that they'll spend and fix up their defence and goalkeeper and be pretty ruthless with it.
 

mu4c_20le

Full Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
43,692
Super Frank has been bailed out by Pulisic and Giroud soo many times after the lockdown I lost count. They were poor many times and deserved to lose.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
43,735
Location
Egypt
Their defense is shambolic and they're not challenging for shite with it. Bizarrely too, they seem indifferent and keep on signing attacking players only.
 

WeePat

Full Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
17,383
Supports
Chelsea
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Kepa's save percentage is now down to 52.5% - further cementing his place as the worst keeper ever in the PL to get at least 1000 minutes.
Click to expand...
We must be a magnet for conceding unlikely goals. What was our xGa at HT? Something like 0.20, yet we were 3-1 down.
 

dbs235

Full Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
1,871
Dave Smith said:
Abraham (bottom PL/top end Championship striker)
Click to expand...
He's 22 years old and scored 15 goals in 25 starts for Chelsea this season. Martinez at Inter is the same age and only has 13 goals, and is being linked to Barca for 100m. Not saying Abraham is better or will have a better career but people are being very harsh on him recently. Calling him a Championship striker is a bit ridiculous, if he leaves Chelsea he'd want to be aiming for a Europa Leauge club at least.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

Full Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2016
Messages
6,587
Location
Lisboa, Portugal
Supports
Chelsea
WeePat said:
We must be a magnet for conceding unlikely goals. What was our xGa at HT? Something like 0.20, yet we were 3-1 down.
Click to expand...
At half time it was 0.2 vs. 0.84 for a score of 3-1.

After 68 minutes it was Liverpool 0.85 vs. Chelsea 2.15. Actual score 4-2.

Full time xG was 1.55 - 2.52, actual score 5-3. On Liverpool's 5 shots leading to their goals, the total combined xG was 0.76. Kepa is genuinely atrocious.
 

charlenefan

Far less insightful than the other Charley
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
33,052
dbs235 said:
He's 22 years old and scored 15 goals in 25 starts for Chelsea this season. Martinez at Inter is the same age and only has 13 goals, and is being linked to Barca for 100m. Not saying Abraham is better or will have a better career but people are being very harsh on him recently. Calling him a Championship striker is a bit ridiculous, if he leaves Chelsea he'd want to be aiming for a Europa Leauge club at least.
Click to expand...
So Arsenal, Wolves or Spurs then? All 3 have better strikers than Abraham

His level is probably mid table at best
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
37,331
dbs235 said:
He's 22 years old and scored 15 goals in 25 starts for Chelsea this season. Martinez at Inter is the same age and only has 13 goals, and is being linked to Barca for 100m. Not saying Abraham is better or will have a better career but people are being very harsh on him recently. Calling him a Championship striker is a bit ridiculous, if he leaves Chelsea he'd want to be aiming for a Europa Leauge club at least.
Click to expand...
Theres a reason why he hasnt got more than 25 starts. Thats not a stat that tells us anything
 

WeePat

Full Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
17,383
Supports
Chelsea
TheMagicFoolBus said:
At half time it was 0.2 vs. 0.84 for a score of 3-1.

After 68 minutes it was Liverpool 0.85 vs. Chelsea 2.15. Actual score 4-2.

Full time xG was 1.55 - 2.52, actual score 5-3. On Liverpool's 5 shots leading to their goals, the total combined xG was 0.76. Kepa is genuinely atrocious.
Click to expand...
Christ.

You could make the argument we'd have already secured top 4 if we had literally any other PL keeper. I'm still trying to figure whatever the hell he was trying to do for VVD's late chance.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

Full Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2016
Messages
6,587
Location
Lisboa, Portugal
Supports
Chelsea
WeePat said:
Christ.

You could make the argument we'd have already secured top 4 if we had literally any other PL keeper. I'm still trying to figure whatever the hell he was trying to do for VVD's late chance.
Click to expand...
I was laughing my arse off on that chance when there were literally 6 defenders screaming "KEPAAAAAA" whilst he let a cross that was 3 yards inside of the 6 yard box go bouncing past for no reason. If we'd played Caballero all season we'd have had top 4 secured by now in my opinion.
 

WeePat

Full Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
17,383
Supports
Chelsea
TheMagicFoolBus said:
I was laughing my arse off on that chance when there were literally 6 defenders screaming "KEPAAAAAA" whilst he let a cross that was 3 yards inside of the 6 yard box go bouncing past for no reason. If we'd played Caballero all season we'd have had top 4 secured by now in my opinion.
Click to expand...
His confidence is six feet under. He's crippled with fear

 

TheMagicFoolBus

Full Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2016
Messages
6,587
Location
Lisboa, Portugal
Supports
Chelsea
WeePat said:
His confidence is six feet under. He's crippled with fear

Click to expand...
WeePat said:
@TheMagicFoolBus 14 shots on target - 11 goals conceded

Click to expand...
It's genuinely astonishing how atrocious he is. Cannot believe that anyone voting in the Ballon d'Uffer isn't plumping for Kepa as worst player when he's having literally the worst season in recorded history at the position.
 

Pow

New Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Messages
3,516
Location
Somewhere
Supports
Chelsea
Hes fecking shit.
The good news is a proper keepers gonna be worth so many points next season.
 

WeePat

Full Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
17,383
Supports
Chelsea
TheMagicFoolBus said:
It's genuinely astonishing how atrocious he is. Cannot believe that anyone voting in the Ballon d'Uffer isn't plumping for Kepa as worst player when he's having literally the worst season in recorded history at the position.
Click to expand...
It's why I spend more time defending our defenders, who are by no means great themselves, but the back 4 certainly wouldn't be looked at as such a joke if we literally any other PL or championship keeper in goal.

We have certain issues in dealing with crosses and set pieces, but generally speaking I always feel as though we defend pretty well as a team and the stats you posted earlier support that feeling.
 

FootballHQ

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
18,256
Supports
Aston Villa
54 goals conceded. :eek: Amazing they're in the top 4 with that record, interested if anyone before has finished in top 4 with such a bad defence. In 15/16 season they conceded 53 and finished 10th which is more reflective.
 

FootballHQ

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
18,256
Supports
Aston Villa
WeePat said:
It's why I spend more time defending our defenders, who are by no means great themselves, but the back 4 certainly wouldn't be looked at as such a joke if we literally any other PL or championship keeper in goal.

We have certain issues in dealing with crosses and set pieces, but generally speaking I always feel as though we defend pretty well as a team and the stats you posted earlier support that feeling.
Click to expand...
You give away far too many free headers in the box, Newcastle winner in January was a case in point. The one we scored v you a few weeks back at Villa Park another. West Ham also caused carnage with corners the other week.

Derby last season also had the same problem.

Kepa obviously isn't commanding but you really lack that dominant CB in your options. I used to rate Rudiger but he's been really disappointing this season.
 

Gringo

Full Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2019
Messages
3,402
Supports
Portugal
Is it lack of dominance ? Zouma is pretty dominant in the air. Think it's something else.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

Full Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2016
Messages
6,587
Location
Lisboa, Portugal
Supports
Chelsea
FootballHQ said:
You give away far too many free headers in the box, Newcastle winner in January was a case in point. The one we scored v you a few weeks back at Villa Park another. West Ham also caused carnage with corners the other week.

Derby last season also had the same problem.

Kepa obviously isn't commanding but you really lack that dominant CB in your options. I used to rate Rudiger but he's been really disappointing this season.
Click to expand...
Yes but a huge component of that is Kepa - he utterly refuses to come off his line to do anything (see above posts in this thread), and thus our CBs are forced into unfavourable 1v1s. For me Rudiger has been disappointing this year but I find it hard to blame him too much when he's in front of literally the worst goalkeeper to ever play in the PL. I'd argue that Zouma is our best CB right now - if we're going for Tagliafico who's 5'8" then we need aerially dominant CBs.
 

charlenefan

Far less insightful than the other Charley
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
33,052
Blaming it all on the keeper is a little naive, a lot has had to have gone wrong defensively before the opposition are getting a chance on goal. Yeah Kepa's naff and you'd expect him to save some of what he's faced but there's more to it than just him
 

FootballHQ

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
18,256
Supports
Aston Villa
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Yes but a huge component of that is Kepa - he utterly refuses to come off his line to do anything (see above posts in this thread), and thus our CBs are forced into unfavourable 1v1s. For me Rudiger has been disappointing this year but I find it hard to blame him too much when he's in front of literally the worst goalkeeper to ever play in the PL. I'd argue that Zouma is our best CB right now - if we're going for Tagliafico who's 5'8" then we need aerially dominant CBs.
Click to expand...
It is no better when Caballero plays although he's a worse keeper than Kepa generally.
 

Paxi

Dagestani MMA Boiled Egg Expert
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
27,678

amazing statistic really.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

Full Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2016
Messages
6,587
Location
Lisboa, Portugal
Supports
Chelsea
FootballHQ said:
It is no better when Caballero plays although he's a worse keeper than Kepa generally.
Click to expand...
Hm? I think we've been far better in the cup games at that position with Caballero - he's much more assertive and commands the area to a much greater extent. It's not a coincidence that we looked assured in our defense in the FA Cup semis with a competent goalkeeper
 

FootballHQ

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
18,256
Supports
Aston Villa
Gringo said:
Is it lack of dominance ? Zouma is pretty dominant in the air. Think it's something else.
Click to expand...
Zouma's an odd one really. He's not a terrible CB but he's played in defensive units at Stoke (the year they went down) and Everton in 18/19 that were pretty hopeless. Don't think he's been the same since the bad injury he had although he's a good squad option. What's happened to Christensen in last 18 months. Seemed he was progressing well, Barcelona were interested and it's suddenly all ground to a halt with his development.
 

FootballHQ

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
18,256
Supports
Aston Villa
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Hm? I think we've been far better in the cup games at that position with Caballero - he's much more assertive and commands the area to a much greater extent. It's not a coincidence that we looked assured in our defense in the FA Cup semis with a competent goalkeeper
Click to expand...
He was awful v Leicester, that's the last league game I can remember when he charged out of his box and still couldn't get back when the cross eventually came in. You still conceded two goals from crosses with him in goal in the Man. United game aswell.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.