Who screwed up more in the final, Pep or Ole?
- Thread starter VidaRed
- Start date
Pogba on the left. Matic in, or go VDB and McT central and leave Rashford on the bench As he’s been out of form for a while and at least coming off the bench later he gives you an option to change what is happening in the game.
You mean like Havertz, Werner, Rüdiger, and Tuchel?
One played against Chelsea. The other played against fecking Villareal.
There was huge mistakes on both sides, but the final we played in was a culmination of all of the things that were wrong with Man Utd as a club all season long. The same mistakes again and again and again an again. Fans call for more sub use, more squad rotation etc. etc. All season nothing changed. Heck nothing was even tried.
Pep got a game wrong, probably attitude.
Ole lost a game that he never ever should have. That loss is so much worse.
Pep got a game wrong, probably attitude.
Ole lost a game that he never ever should have. That loss is so much worse.
I didn't watch tonight, but Ole undoubtedly blundered badly Wednesday
I would say he fecked up his prep long before the final. If he'd given the likes of VDB game time before the final, bringing him on for Bruno during some of the games, not only would it rest Bruno but may have developed VDB into the role and been able to be counted on as a sub.
You don't then play for penalties for the whole of extra time, when you have a goalkeeper that has such a terrible penalty record. If you're going to do that, you switch in the goalkeeper that has a BETTER CHANCE of saving them.
That was his fatal error. Yes he made lots of mistakes, but settling for penalties that early, given the GK he used, was what cost him.
He's too happy to play for a draw, he did it against Liverpool when they were there for the taking with their injuries - at the time we were well in contention in the league. He's tried to play for a draw in game as well before, or hold onto a one goal lead, and we've got sucker punched several times. Unfortunately for him, this time there couldn't be a draw.
Even think back to the CL game vs PSG, we could all see what was going to happen about Fred, as we could all see what was going to happen with DDG and penalties Wednesday. We are not paid millions of pounds as manager of a top flight club....
I would say he fecked up his prep long before the final. If he'd given the likes of VDB game time before the final, bringing him on for Bruno during some of the games, not only would it rest Bruno but may have developed VDB into the role and been able to be counted on as a sub.
You don't then play for penalties for the whole of extra time, when you have a goalkeeper that has such a terrible penalty record. If you're going to do that, you switch in the goalkeeper that has a BETTER CHANCE of saving them.
That was his fatal error. Yes he made lots of mistakes, but settling for penalties that early, given the GK he used, was what cost him.
He's too happy to play for a draw, he did it against Liverpool when they were there for the taking with their injuries - at the time we were well in contention in the league. He's tried to play for a draw in game as well before, or hold onto a one goal lead, and we've got sucker punched several times. Unfortunately for him, this time there couldn't be a draw.
Even think back to the CL game vs PSG, we could all see what was going to happen about Fred, as we could all see what was going to happen with DDG and penalties Wednesday. We are not paid millions of pounds as manager of a top flight club....
Matic or vdb over rashford to start in the final while neither has played any important game the entire season. Cmon that's a totally retrospective viewpoint.
Pep ofcourse . We drew the game
Jokes aside, the difference in team quality is so much bigger for Ole that its easy to say its him.
But Pep has coached at top top level and played a ton of top level finals, so he should have the experience and know how, yet he still doesnt learn . So I’d actually say it is Pep.
Jokes aside, the difference in team quality is so much bigger for Ole that its easy to say its him.
But Pep has coached at top top level and played a ton of top level finals, so he should have the experience and know how, yet he still doesnt learn . So I’d actually say it is Pep.
Ole is relieved that Pep did a Pep tonight
Everyones forgotten how badly Ole fkd it up...thank you Pep
Everyones forgotten how badly Ole fkd it up...thank you Pep
There’s a Swansea forum somewhere asking if there manager deserves abit of praise because he didn’t bottle it like Pep and Ole.
Yep. Immense insecurity of “laugh at other managers” it seems. I’m not even an Ole “outer” (he’s progressed another year so give him another - though I’m still not convinced).....but we seems obsessed with other managers’ failures.
Obviously not.
This. Pep got the team wrong from the start (No Rodri or Fernandinho?) but did as much as he realistically could to change the game. Ole got the team selection right but failed to be proactive when key players werent performing, and lacked a plan B.
Who else should Ole have picked to start?
Fernandinho or Rodri at least gives City some cover for the counter, they were torn to shreds repeatedly, and their press was haphazard as the players were too worried about the counter.
Villarreal won due to our players being poor, and Ole not making subs when we tired. Chelsea won due to being the better team by a mile, and were helped by a nutty team selection by Pep and his stubborn refusal to change things.
That it matters whether it's the EL or the CL. City would batter Villareal whether they play them in the CL or the EL, while they'd struggle against United whether it is the PL, LC, FAC, EL or CL. United, as of now, will always struggle against a low block, while City will always struggle against a team that is lethal on the counter. My point is that United and Chelsea play in a way that City struggle with, while Villareal played in a way that United struggle with.
The pre match odds were very similar.
Average across multiple bookmakers (90 min):
- 1.97 City, 4.35 Chelsea.
- 1.92 United, 4.23 Villareal.
From https://www.oddsportal.com
Average across multiple bookmakers (90 min):
- 1.97 City, 4.35 Chelsea.
- 1.92 United, 4.23 Villareal.
From https://www.oddsportal.com
Ole’s opportunity to win a European trophy was a gift, Pep’s was a favourites chance against a tough outfit with a good record against city. Ole hands down cocked it up more than Pep.
Not that I mind the banter, but just for the record, you do realize that our treble winning coach called it quits due to a row with the DoF, in part because he wanted the club to buy Werner and Havertz but the club wouldn't do it..?
They both messed it up since the beginning. Inability to prepare tactics, implementnt them during sessions, no plan b in both cases, wrong subs considering how would they change games.
Then also physical part, the games hardly felt intense. Actually ours could have maybe been more like as in extra times we were dead on feet.
Too little active doings on the touch line etc. Both managers bottled it completely. Froze.. and it transpired to the pitch.
Tuchel was a nutter down there!
Then also physical part, the games hardly felt intense. Actually ours could have maybe been more like as in extra times we were dead on feet.
Too little active doings on the touch line etc. Both managers bottled it completely. Froze.. and it transpired to the pitch.
Tuchel was a nutter down there!
Well you see, Pep had the option of realistically changing the game. Ole didnt (in his eyes) because he didnt have any on the bench he trusted.
I’m pretty sure Sancho would have gotten subbed in around the 60th or so if you get my drift.
True. But with Fred out, the starting 11 picked itself. Ole didn’t make any mistakes with the team, they simply didn’t execute. I think he ended up making mistakes by not using the bench, however it’s nowhere near the mistake Pep made by starting that midfield three.
That is because bookies expected us to mess up against a weaker team and expected Pep to coach well.
Thus yes it was a bigger error from Ole.
Pogba started in CM because Fred was injured.
Pep completely played into Chelsea's hands with his team selection, he's had enough warnings this season.
Honestly I can't see a single decision he got right, by the time his team had any balance it was way too late.
Ole obviously.
Both equally poor.
Some very strange decisions by Guardiola frankly.
Some very strange decisions by Guardiola frankly.
Tbf if we had sancho he would have started and that brings us back to square one. Anyone on the bench in ole's eyes would be lesser quality than sancho. Unless we also had grealish, then either one of them from the bench would do wonders in ole's eyes.
Looks like you've dodged a bullet with Werner then. I just can't see him as top player, but what do I know?
I'm not knocking Bayern, thier one of the historical clubs of European football, always had a soft spot for them.
Pep tried to be clever, we just put out the team that the vast majority of us would have done with Fred injured.
We had our reasons for not going for Werner. Good player though. Havertz, we just couldn't afford.
I have a hard time having a 'soft spot' for United due to '99, but the respect is there. You'll be back at the top soon.
If we had started Sancho we would have had Greenwood on the bench at least. I know Ole trust him to go in and change a game earlier than what happened in the final.
I get that you want to turn it into another Ole bash but that doesn't make sense. Surely Pep messed up more if your logic is that the expectation was he'd do well and Ole the opposite?
Both were favourites, both had better players and both somehow contrived to lose. Our defeat was probably worse but it’s really hard to care overly much about losing the EL. Losing the CL final would have sucked though.
1999 haha. 15 years old I was. It was a brilliant night. Yeah We'll be back at some point, hopefully not too long.
Pep. His record in CL is really dreadful when you think about it. Won it twice with Barca when he had by far and away the best team in the world, then had the best squad in Europe at Bayern and City and only managed one final which he lost.
Well my point is. Pep was expected to do a better managerial performance than Ole since he is better. Although Ole still had the worst performance at least in terms of match coaching, but more people expected that.
If we traded managers then we would probably won with Pep and City failed with Ole. In the end both failed though and a large part was that they failed to set up and coach the team in a great way.
Couple of players, Sancho, a CB maybe, another good midfielder..
The thing is that there simply isn't as good a league coach as Guardiola anywhere, so winning the league against him is an uphill battle which only freaks like Conte or Klopp can achieve, once, when things go right for them.
Once Pep is gone, the Premier League will be there for the taking again.
My City fan mate is fuming. Biggest game in the clubs history and he fecks about with the line up.
Pep got this one completely wrong.
Pep got this one completely wrong.
You must have timed that perfectly haha. Odds were well down day before and after that. Coral, Ladbrokes, Betfred well lower, never got near 7/2.