Can Bruno continue in the same position with Ronaldo in our 1st xi?

roonster09 · Sep 1, 2021

Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date

Thread which shows what Ronaldo brings and what areas he picks up. Maybe Bruno should make lot of runs centrally to support Ronaldo.

amolbhatia50k · Sep 1, 2021

Pogue Mahone said:
If Ronaldo is going to start every game then Bruno won’t be the only player who has to adjust his game. Not when you consider Ronaldo’s stats in terms of pressing. Although Bruno will be almost certainly denied the penalties and free-kicks he’s been so prolific at for us so far. And does it really make sense to ask a player who’s been at the heart of everything good we’ve done in the last two years to change the way he plays to accommodate a signing who is inevitably going to be on the decline? (if not now, soon)

Now the initial euphoria has worn off I’m moving more and more to the @Top point of view that this signing creates more problems for Ole than it solves.

It's a fair question to ask, but given our issues in building attacks, I think we have no choice but for both Bruno (especially) and Pobga to sacrifice a little bit of their attacking game to help the team as a whole.

Actually we do, the below may also work,

roonster09 said:
@Fortitude

Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date

Thread which shows what Ronaldo brings and what areas he picks up. Maybe Bruno should make lot of runs centrally to support Ronaldo.

We could give Bruno as much freedom (or maybe a little less) freedom as we currently do and get our wide players to drop in a bit and sacrifice their attacking game a tad. Maybe that would help us control games more. Out of the current lot, Pogba (left) and Sancho (right ) being very good passers are capable of it.

But feck knows what will actually happen, what I do feel is that you can't just have the midfield two and then a lot of space to the forwards especially with Ronaldo being focused on just goalscoring.

roonster09 · Sep 1, 2021

amolbhatia50k said:
We could give Bruno as much freedom (or maybe a little less) freedom as we currently do and get our wide players to drop in a bit and sacrifice their attacking game a tad. Maybe that would help us control games more. Out of the current lot, Pogba (left) and Sancho (right ) being very good passers are capable of it.

But feck knows what will actually happen, what I do feel is that you can't just have the midfield two and then a lot of space to the forwards especially with Ronaldo being focused on just goalscoring.

I think as a team we should push higher up the pitch. Look at how Bayern is set up, they played 4-2-3-1 with Muller playing close to Lewandowski, they still control the game as they push higher up the pitch, squeeze the space. That's how we should be doing, I think that's how most big teams play. They push up and play high line.

I checked Gundogan's heat map and City's pass map. Gundogan plays higher up the pitch than Bruno but it won't look like that because as a team they move well with lot of movement and they push their whole team higher up the pitch.

Rash Decision · Sep 1, 2021

roonster09 said:
I think as a team we should push higher up the pitch. Look at how Bayern is set up, they played 4-2-3-1 with Muller playing close to Lewandowski, they still control the game as they push higher up the pitch, squeeze the space. That's how we should be doing, I think that's how most big teams play. They push up and play high line.

I checked Gundogan's heat map and City's pass map. Gundogan plays higher up the pitch than Bruno but it won't look like that because as a team they move well with lot of movement and they push their whole team higher up the pitch.

Hmm I thought we bought Varane so we could play a higher line with his pace. Why do you think we don’t?

roonster09 · Sep 1, 2021

Rash Decision said:
Hmm I thought we bought Varane so we could play a higher line with his pace. Why do you think we don’t?

Because our coach don't want to?

Rash Decision · Sep 1, 2021

roonster09 said:
Because our coach don't want to?

I mean, there should be a reason even if he doesn’t want to. Can’t just be a stylistic preference to go with somewhat high press and deep defensive line right?

roonster09 · Sep 1, 2021

Rash Decision said:
I mean, there should be a reason even if he doesn’t want to. Can’t just be a stylistic preference to go with somewhat high press and deep defensive line right?

Maybe he believes high line is recipe for disaster. Not everyone thinks highline is the way to go, maybe Ole is one of them.

GueRed · Sep 1, 2021

With Pogba, Bruno and Ronaldo in the same team, 3 players who can't/won't defend

we'll need both Fred and McTominay more than ever!

Fortitude · Sep 1, 2021

roonster09 said:
@Fortitude

Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date

Thread which shows what Ronaldo brings and what areas he picks up. Maybe Bruno should make lot of runs centrally to support Ronaldo.

Will read. Thanks for the heads up.

Highfather_24 · Sep 1, 2021

Will we see Bruno's real ability, and how good he really is now?

IhabX7 · Sep 1, 2021

Fortitude said:
Thanks for the maps; I can't honestly say I paid any attention to Bruno before he came here and don't have any recollection of him in that 2018 game you put up; as far as I recall, @SportingCP96 posted a lot about Bruno being a proper 2-way CM and AM when we were linked to him, and his game seems to have modified and become more attacking and singularly focused since then.

I feel there's a distinction, between an AM who works forward and a SS who works backward; Bruno has become the latter and that's why he's so disconnected from midfield with such frequency - he has to go backwards to help them, which is obviously sub-optimal when the midfield is under the cosh and struggling to link play. Bruno does a ridiculous amount of work for the position he's in (too much), but it's not particularly beneficial because he's not in the thick of the action when he needs to be and joins it too late, which is where we see him wasting energy scrambling all over trying to get involved.

I see him likened to De Bruyne on here, but he's more Lampard or Deli Alli (when he was flying) than anyone else seen in England in the intervening years, for me. He blurs the lines and some might call them midfielders whilst others will state they're forwards who worked backward. Bruno's absence from our build ups and the fact he's the one on the end of so many of the plays - as opposed to following in behind them ala Lampard with Drogba or Dele Alli with Kane - tells a story in itself.

When I think about the current iteration of Bruno, and the way Ronaldo plays, it just comes to mind that something (Bruno) has got to give and it's probably more a discussion of how Bruno compromises that I'm thinking of - whether that be by just sitting deeper initially, or moving off to the side in a different system.

Good post.

ROFLUTION · Sep 1, 2021

Everything good that has happened the last two years is because of Bruno.

Accomodate Ronaldo to Bruno, not the other way around. Ronnie's 36, he should be able to accomodate to help the team out.

Also for the main part of these two seasons Bruno has dropped deep to receive the ball in any area he wants. It'll work out well if Ronaldo just works with it and stays a bit more up top or out wide like a Rashford role.

LawCharltonBest · Sep 1, 2021

Zoo said:
I don’t think so, all the more reason for Ole to switch to a 3 man midfield with Bruno and Pogba as 8’s. He really needs to evolve from the 4-2-3-1.

I disagree with you.

For me, it’s all the more reason to keep Bruno close to Ronaldo. Almost as a shadow striker, be more attacking, accept we will concede goals but outscore the opponents and feck the midfield off a bit.

Schmeichel's Cartwheel · Sep 1, 2021

No chance.

amolbhatia50k · Sep 1, 2021

roonster09 said:
I think as a team we should push higher up the pitch. Look at how Bayern is set up, they played 4-2-3-1 with Muller playing close to Lewandowski, they still control the game as they push higher up the pitch, squeeze the space. That's how we should be doing, I think that's how most big teams play. They push up and play high line.

I checked Gundogan's heat map and City's pass map. Gundogan plays higher up the pitch than Bruno but it won't look like that because as a team they move well with lot of movement and they push their whole team higher up the pitch.

Good point. It would compress the space between our defence, midfield and attack which would help out.

roonster09 · Sep 1, 2021

Looks like Bruno and B.Silva are playing in midfield 3 alongwith Palhinha, Rafa and Jota as wingers, Ronaldo as CF.

TrustInOle · Sep 1, 2021

laughtersassassin said:
I really think with the fact our Midfield options are so poor and now that we have Ronaldo the best solution is go 433 with Bruno as the Second number 8.

My 3 would be McT, Bruno, Pogba

With a front currently of Sancho Ronaldo Greenwood.

I wouldn't mind seeing this and how it would work. I think Scott could easily hold his forward runs, strong enough in a duel and a decent range of passing which wouldn't hurt to much when he has Bruno or Pogba for quick release. Sure I remember Matic saying Scott reminds him of a younger version of himself and has the skills to follow his career.

UNITED ACADEMY · Sep 1, 2021

Fortitude said:
He's too high up the pitch, which will encroach on Ronaldo's roaming space, but also - and, for me, more of an issue - defensively, Ronaldo will do next to no work, which is acceptable, but Bruno's defensive legs and contribution to any central press is crucial without world class central midfielders sweeping up and recycling the ball behind the forward line.

There's already an issue with Bruno sitting too high compromising our midfield, and that's with more defensively responsible central forwards - in Cavani, Greenwood and even Martial - than Ronaldo will, or at 36, could be. Please note that pointing this out about Ronaldo isn't a criticism of him, and further to that, his energy is better conserved and utilised thinking about his next action that can hurt the opposition.

Further to the above, in terms of being available for the pass as well as turning and progressing the ball forward, he cannot continue in a support striker role with Ronaldo being superior in almost every facet when it comes to receiving the ball and turning that into a viable goalscoring opportunity. Bruno needs to be the guy looking to supply rather than being on the end of so many balls.

Having two forwards sitting high and not dropping deep or into rank to aid the midfield is not viable, well, unless you have a world class engine behind them in terms of a runner and retainer - something like a prime Modric and Essien, for example, which no club has at the moment.

For myself, Ronaldo arriving means Bruno has to play 15-20 yards back, get involved in the build up by both being available and also being more balanced in using his legs and energy. His shooting opportunities should reduce somewhat, and his goals might reduce, but goal involvements and contributions via passing should go up.

In your opinion, does the arrival of Ronaldo almost organically sort out issues with the spine of the team, or will Bruno be left to the same devices as he has had during his support striker/much-less-of-a-midfielder run? If Bruno stays where, and, as is, do you think that the team as a whole can cope?

I haven't watched Portugal outside of the Euros where Bruno seemed to struggle to get involved with their build up play - is that an issue for Portugal in general with both Ronaldo and Bruno on the pitch, or something that came out of the blue during the tournament proper?

It seems you just give us more reason why we should play McFred and plays Pogba in that wide playmaker role on the left. McFred provide energy to cover lot of ground in that midfield which something Matic and Pogba don't do while Pogba is the playmaker for creativity to find Bruno and Ronaldo run and also provide additional body in midfield.

I think we still be fine, time will only tell. Ronaldo played alongside Morata in 442 last season and Ronaldo still managed to score 29 league goals and 4 UCL goals while Morata still managed to score 11 league goals and 6 UCL goals. As long as both Bruno and Ronaldo have the chemistry to play together, I think they can mix their tasks. Both don't need to stick the same task, Ronaldo can still create space by moving wide and if it open the space then Bruno can run into the space while Pogba can find him or Bruno can drop deep to create space and Ronaldo can run into the space while Pogba can find him.

Highfather_24 · Sep 1, 2021

Bruno playing as an #8 for Portugal shows that he is a lesser player there.

This obsession with 4-3-3 and playing Pogba and Bruno as #8s, will only lead to both of them being ineffective. Thinking a DM will "unlock" them, and a 4-3-3 is some sort of a solve it all is naive.

Raveneye · Sep 1, 2021

Bruno's natural instincts already tell him to track back and link with the build up play. He was doing this a lot until partway through last season. Bruno dropping deep all the time frustrated Solksjaer because Bruno would make himself a passing option to make up for McFred's deficiencies, receive the ball, then find himself with nobody in front of him to pass to.

So if Bruno can rely on Ronaldo to make himself a viable target, I don't see an issue with Bruno being allowed license to track back again.

lsd · Sep 1, 2021

They just don't look like they combine well together.

laughtersassassin · Sep 1, 2021

TrustInOle said:
I wouldn't mind seeing this and how it would work. I think Scott could easily hold his forward runs, strong enough in a duel and a decent range of passing which wouldn't hurt to much when he has Bruno or Pogba for quick release. Sure I remember Matic saying Scott reminds him of a younger version of himself and has the skills to follow his career.

See atleast with Scott he has potential and it improving every year. Fred is what he is and isn't improving so it's hard to back much hope into him.

tjb · Sep 1, 2021

Actually Bruno should play the way he plays here. Him being deeper doesn't quite work with Ronaldo as a 9, because Ronaldo is more of an advanced forward who needs support in attack. Bruno doesn't just stay central either, he roams across the three behind the striker, which means his through passes will be more effective when connecting with the movement of Ronaldo. For Portugal, he's too isolated at times. For me, you either support him with a 10 or play him at left wing.

LawCharltonBest · Sep 1, 2021

lsd said:
They just don't look like they combine well together.

This Portugal manager is an out of touch ballbag

He plays Bruno completely wrong and it’s obvious. Solskjaer gets much more out of him

Bruno and Cavani played well together, no reason he won’t with Ronaldo

Highfather_24 · Sep 1, 2021

tjb said:
Actually Bruno should play the way he plays here. Him being deeper doesn't quite work with Ronaldo as a 9, because Ronaldo is more of an advanced forward who needs support in attack. Bruno doesn't just stay central either, he roams across the three behind the striker, which means his through passes will be more effective when connecting with the movement of Ronaldo. For Portugal, he's too isolated at times. For me, you either support him with a 10 or play him at left wing.

Yep. I would say left forward rather than left wing though.

Fortitude · Sep 2, 2021

roonster09 said:
@Fortitude

Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date

Thread which shows what Ronaldo brings and what areas he picks up. Maybe Bruno should make lot of runs centrally to support Ronaldo.

It’s a hopeful thread, but a problem with it is it’s very positive for the notion it’s all about us and not in the mention of defensive phases. The biggest issue with it is omitting mention of our central midfield progression issues if Bruno is used as Ronaldo’s foil with the latter coming off the left inside channel - Bruno cannot be in two places at once and be making optimal offensive actions that tee off just right if we’re not in control of the midfield.

In theory there, Ronaldo is busier off-centre and is curving runs in the channel Bruno rarely occupies, which in turn, leaves Bruno free, but we’d need a far superior midfield than we have for that to actually play out, I believe.

laughtersassassin · Sep 2, 2021

Highfather_24 said:
Bruno playing as an #8 for Portugal shows that he is a lesser player there.

This obsession with 4-3-3 and playing Pogba and Bruno as #8s, will only lead to both of them being ineffective. Thinking a DM will "unlock" them, and a 4-3-3 is some sort of a solve it all is naive.

The idea is more so to cover other players failings.

We don't want to be playing McFred together ideally because they both limit our ability on the ball and mean we play 1 less of our amazing attacking options.

It's something worth trying. We may execute it better than Portugal.

Also I this scenario I'd play him as like an 8 and a half so to speak. So not level with Pogba.

roonster09 · Sep 2, 2021

Fortitude said:
It’s a hopeful thread, but a problem with it is it’s very positive for the notion it’s all about us and not in the mention of defensive phases. The biggest issue with it is omitting mention of our central midfield progression issues if Bruno is used as Ronaldo’s foil with the latter coming off the left inside channel - Bruno cannot be in two places at once and be making optimal offensive actions that tee off just right if we’re not in control of the midfield.

In theory there, Ronaldo is busier off-centre and is curving runs in the channel Bruno rarely occupies, which in turn, leaves Bruno free, but we’d need a far superior midfield than we have for that to actually play out, I believe.

Isn't that true even if we play 4-3-3 with 3 midfielders as CM should be in the position to progress the play and also support attacking players in more advanced positions? If we go strictly by positions on paper then 4-3-3 will have only 3 attackers. On pitch it will be very different, Bruno always make attacking runs from deep and if you see his heat map, he covers lot of pitch. Bruno won't be in 2 places at once but he will be all over the pitch dropping deep, beating offside traps, drifting wide.

Also I don't remember us playing rigid play style, at least under Ole. We play Rashford, Bruno, Greenwood as attacking 3 with either Martial or Cavani as CF. CFs always drift wide and players like Rashford, Greenwood make attacking runs into the box. Bruno pops up next to AWB to cross the ball, sometimes makes the run beating offside trap and then he is next to Rashford and Shaw playing short passes.

Also when it comes to defensive phase, Bruno will be the most advanced player, that's how we have set up all the time. He presses more than any player we have (maybe except Fred) and he always takes up very advanced position to press the GKs and defenders. If we are talking about our general defensive set up then we usually leave at least one wide player higher up the pitch as an outlet for counters along with CF.

Reading back, I'm not sure if what I posted is really a proper reply to your posted but just wanted to post it anyways

Leaving all this, when was the last time we saw 4-2-3-1 shape on the pitch when we attacked? All I'm trying to say is, when we attack, our players have the freedom to move all over the place, so the space left by Ronaldo won't be occupied by only Bruno. Rashford, Greenwood also does that. Forget attackers, even our CMs make attacking runs into the box all the time.

Highfather_24 · Sep 2, 2021

laughtersassassin said:
The idea is more so to cover other players failings.

We don't want to be playing McFred together ideally because they both limit our ability on the ball and mean we play 1 less of our amazing attacking options.

I dont think its the brightest idea to take our best/2nd best player and limit him, just to cover other players failings. Bruno is playing great at the current role, and it should continue.

McFred works. Yes it has flaws, but the reason is because they are limited players, not the formation. If Fred was a better passer, it would be an amazing pairing. The reason Pogba, Matic or VdB cannot replace them, is because they are simply just not as good as them in that role, or offer as much balance.

Matic is too slow. VdB has zero positional discipline. And unlike popular opinion, I dont think its Pogba's defensive acumen holding him back at all. I think he doesnt suit the CM role, because he doesnt know when to release the ball, and keeps losing it in dangerous positions. No amount of defensive solidarity next to him is gonna change that. McFred keep playing, because they are our best options there, not because they offer extra protection or something. I'm very sure if we had Jorginho/Thiago, Ole would use them regularly alongside McT/Fred. And why I suspect even if we buy a DM/B2B player, we would still play one of Fred/McT alongside them.

Even if we switch to a 4-3-3 with the same personell we have, we will still play McT and Fred, because if you take one of them out, our balance would go out of the window.

--Pogba--McT
-------Bruno

is just as unbalanced as :

--------McT
--Pogba
---------------Bruno

That's why during Ole's interim stint when we played 4-3-3 we used this midfield :

----Fred
McT--Pogba

Pogba or Bruno or VdB should not be trusted as a CM. Pogba's performances are lesser at a deeper role, and so is Bruno's. And I dont see how limiting your best players can be better for the team.

laughtersassassin · Sep 2, 2021

Highfather_24 said:
I dont think its the brightest idea to take our best/2nd best player and limit him, just to cover other players failings. Bruno is playing great at the current role, and it should continue.

McFred works. Yes it has flaws, but the reason is because they are limited players, not the formation. If Fred was a better passer, it would be an amazing pairing. The reason Pogba, Matic or VdB cannot replace them, is because they are simply just not as good as them in that role, or offer as much balance.

Matic is too slow. VdB has zero positional discipline. And unlike popular opinion, I dont think its Pogba's defensive acumen holding him back at all. I think he doesnt suit the CM role, because he doesnt know when to release the ball, and keeps losing it in dangerous positions. No amount of defensive solidarity next to him is gonna change that. McFred keep playing, because they are our best options there, not because they offer extra protection or something. I'm very sure if we had Jorginho/Thiago, Ole would use them regularly alongside McT/Fred. And why I suspect even if we buy a DM/B2B player, we would still play one of Fred/McT alongside them.

Even if we switch to a 4-3-3 with the same personell we have, we will still play McT and Fred, because if you take one of them out, our balance would go out of the window.

--Pogba--McT
-------Bruno

is just as unbalanced as :

--------McT
--Pogba
---------------Bruno

That's why during Ole's interim stint when we played 4-3-3 we used this midfield :

----Fred
McT--Pogba

Pogba or Bruno or VdB should not be trusted as a CM. Pogba's performances are lesser at a deeper role, and so is Bruno's. And I dont see how limiting your best players can be better for the team.

It completely depends mate. It's about what team is the best sum of its parts.

Ayoba · Sep 2, 2021

Its definitely going to be a problem - if Ole wants to play with 3 attackers plus bruno and pobga in midfield, then I struggle to see how he will do that. I said it before and i'll say it again, he's going to have to make some hard decisions:

- Drop one of Bruno or Pogba or,
- Play Pobga on the left of the front three, which means Sancho misses out as Greenwood is great form right now.

smi11ie · Sep 2, 2021

I think Bruno might suffer a bit but I think the team will benefit as a whole. Ronaldo will boss Bruno about and probably force him into more of a midfield role. Bruno will do it because Ronaldo is a Portugese legend and probably Bruno's hero. I think this will result in less goals for Bruno but better build up and possesion play for Utd.

Jacob · Sep 2, 2021

How do Portugal line up?

JPB · Sep 2, 2021

I've been wondering if we could play like this at home against teams who park the bus. Full out attack.

----------------------De Gea------------------
AWB-----Varane-----Maguire-----Shaw
Sancho-----Fernandes-----Pogba-----Rashford
----------Greenwood-----Ronaldo-----------

Old School United 4-4-2
Could it work with Bruno And Pogba, against teams who sit deep?

roonster09 · Sep 2, 2021

JPB said:
I've been wondering if we could play like this at home against teams who park the bus. Full out attack.

----------------------De Gea------------------
AWB-----Varane-----Maguire-----Shaw
Sancho-----Fernandes-----Pogba-----Rashford
----------Greenwood-----Ronaldo-----------

Old School United 4-4-2
Could it work with Bruno And Pogba, against teams who sit deep?

Not a chance we will see that team, maybe if we are couple of goals down and into final 10-15 mins of the game.

Fortitude · Sep 9, 2021

Bruno Fernandes and Cristiano Ronaldo: Will they gel for Manchester United better than with Portugal?Bruno Fernandes has struggled to combine well with Cristiano Ronaldo for Portugal but could it be different at Man Utd?

https://www.skysports.com/football/...r-manchester-united-better-than-with-portugal

Not read it. Popped up on my feed whilst I was browsing so posting it here. Wonder if the media will be talking about it much in the next few weeks.

TwoSheds · Sep 9, 2021

Of course he can play no.10 with Ronaldo. He can't play with Ronaldo and Bernardo Silva, as evidenced for Portugal but for me the odd man out in that trio is Bernardo not our lads.

The idea that players won't understand how to try to adapt their games to each other or the game situation is a bit fanciful, particularly with 2 talented, experienced and influential players like we're talking about here.

Mike Smalling · Sep 9, 2021

In general, I think Bruno needs to take up the positions between midfield and the forwards to link the two, rather than making the deep runs early. That worked against Leeds because they are so open, but against Wolves it resulted in us playing the long ball way too often, because Bruno was more interested in playing off the shoulder than as a classic number 10. Bruno would become a better player if he slowed down the tempo once in a while, and acted more as a playmaker than someone always looking for either an assist or a goal - especially when we play against well-organized defensive teams.

bosnian_red · Sep 9, 2021

For sure he can. Something not working for Portugal doesn't mean it won't work for us.

I do think he should play more as a midfielder generally, but anyway, that's more dependent on who the striker is.

Chesterlestreet · Sep 9, 2021

He absolutely can if we set up to get the best out of both.

Ronaldo can and should play as a pure striker, making dangerous runs and focusing on finishing.

Can Bruno continue in the same position with Ronaldo in our 1st xi?

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world

Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world

not to use the cream

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world

not to use the cream

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world

Full Member

TV/Monitor Expert

Full Member

Full Member

Full Member

Enjoys watching fox porn

Correctly predicted Italy to win Euro 2020

Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world

Full Member

New Member

Full Member

Full Member

The Oracle

Full Member

Full Member

Enjoys watching fox porn

Full Member

TV/Monitor Expert

Full Member

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world

Full Member

Full Member

Poster of Noncense.

Not a philogynist

Full Member

New Member

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world

TV/Monitor Expert

More sheds (and tiles) than you, probably

Full Member

Worst scout to ever exist

Man of the crowd