Assuming all those sales happen and the numbers work, are we going into the next season with a midfield of McFred and Rice?
Declan Rice
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McTominay, Fred, Rice, Matic, Garner/Mejbri, and maybe even Bruno as an option.
Not ideal at all. But to sign a «replacement» for Pogba I would prefer to wait on Bellingham (who I would think will stay at Dortmund to ‘23). I think we would be set for a few years if we managed to pull that off, and we would probably enter a period with lower investment (and hopefully a few sales of young talents from the academy).
Midfield and attack would look set for the next decade.
Well first I think we aren’t going to get near Haaland
so I’d go for 2 midfielders
Rice; I’d start at 55m cash up front, with 20m spread over 5 years
Pickup Kessie on a free
Well we are agreeign on the vast majority of that. Where I disagree is simply the first part where you proginally said Rice needs a dynamic or productive midfielder alongside him. I am no tsaying we should be looking to recreat West ams midfield no, just as we shouldnt be ENglands with Phillips who also isnt especially dynamic....I am simply saying I feel its a bit of a myth we need two very certain types of midfield for the pivot. We need intelligent plaeyers that can screen the defence behind them and be positionally aware, Rice fits that bill as do others
watching Lindelof trying to head the ball against Everton, I genuinely I could only imagine the level of rage you must have felt, as I was fuming.How would you feel about spending the £75m on Rice if we also got Tielemans on a free ?
Ok, maybe we're saying the same thing. I think next to Rice we need someone better positionally as a CM than Fred or Scott - also think they should be able to either dribble through the lines or pass better than those two currently do. I actually think Fred is quite good at passing and pressing, but he has flaws that let him get exposed that seem to always lead to us conceding.
Where is Hannibal now. Is he injured.
Yes
Not a big fan of that setup. Also, we couldn't get Tielemans on a free this coming summer given he's contracted to Leicester until June 2023
This is what I really like about him as well.
You just kind of watch him and he is just kind of "there".
You see the opposition attack with them working it to space and yet most of the time - he is just kind of "there".
It's very enjoyable to watch.
I was someone who didn't rate Rice at all before (maybe a shock to some) but I decided to watch him after the links and now I really enjoy watching him and its kind of why I want him at United because I've started to feel he is more of an enjoyable player than people kind of realise.
The guy is a presence.
A 22 year old one. I feel like if we had a good deep lying playmaker in the squad already maybe people would be more open to Rice - however, I don't see why it has to happen in that order exactly either.
Ah so you’re right there. I still think we could get both for around £100m which would improve us no end. They would compliment each other perfectly.
He's injured but I don't believe he would be selected to play ahead of the limited duo the manager is playing currently in midfield. During preseason Solskjaer gave starts to Mata and Pereira over the younger players even when it was known Pereira didn't have a future at the club.
Solskjaer isn't looking to dominate the midfield via possession and hence we're seeing two ratters in tandem playing in midfield.
Yes, I agree. But if he doesn't change the midfield, he will be the one who suffers. We cannot go on with Fred and McTominay as a pivot. It just doesn't work and we are getting outplayed in this area.
Our forwards will be starved, and backline will be under pressure all the time.
I know you’re a big fan of Hannibal but injuries aside he’s not ready for regular cut and thrust of PL football. Minutes here and there yes but he’s not solution in the short term
Well if he isn't good enough to get minutes now then he should be moved on IMO. He's gonna turn 19 in January and wasn't even given a start in pre-season ahead of Pereira and Mata who are/were never gonna be part of the long term plans. Players his age or younger have already made their full debuts in the EPL or in European finals, whilst Mejbri hasn't even started ahead of Pereira and Mata in warm up games.
I think it can also be argued that Solskjaer is having issues playing the more adventurous #6 in the midfield and hence has gone for two ratters rather than one ratter and one ball player, which is pretty normal at most clubs with a coaching staff who look to play a vertical game via midfield. I think it comes down to the manager's way of playing the game which is hampering the likes of Mejbri rather than him not being ready. Because I believe under a proactive manager who looks to play through midfield, Mejbri would've likely at least made a few starts over two very average players in Fred and McTominay.
I don't think he'll change the midfield, because from my observation he's struggling with helping the team transition defensively on the turn over. He had Pogba at the club and went ahead and bought Fernandes which has made things more problematic IMO. I'd understand signing Fernandes and selling Pogba, but he's trying to fit both into the team which IMO is very naive of him. Also factor in that he wanted us to play a high intensity game when he arrived at the club and then proceeded to spend £130m on two players who didn't even suit playing in such a way. And people think he'd be a good DoF. Mind boggling.
But you think throwing a 19 year old straight in with barely any first team minutes is a solution to the issue?
How does he get minutes? He can't select himself. The 17 year old midfielder at Aston Villa didn't select himself into the first team when he was selected to play by the Villa manager in the EPL. Emery at Villareal started a young kid against us in the Europa league final who is the same age as Hannibal. So like I've said before, it's not the always the player not being ready but also sometimes the manager not having the balls to play a younger play with 'big potential'
And we aren't talking about him being given minutes over Xavi or Iniesta here either, when the two that are currently playing are no better than equivalent midfields at midtable clubs.
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It’s simple, fan and club pressure mean he goes for the experience in the middle. Imagine he chucked the kid in and stuck with him the full season but finished 6th or something, Ole would be sacked.
Would bruno and pogba not be more of an obstacle for Hannibal? I haven't watched him that much, thought he was more of an attacking player. Think it'd be a mixture of desperate and terrible to drop a 19 with a handful of caps into our midfield at the moment. We kind of need some stability and to add some personality with older, more experienced players. Throwing Hannibal in would just be throwing more shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. There needs to be some set expectations of what job hes meant to be doing in the team, some more experienced player he can look to as a touchstone. The only established role our midfielders have is to run around and make lots of tackles, I'm not an expert on the guy but im guessing thats not Hannibals game.
I'd give him starts in the league cup but obviously thats off the cards. They're not that good a team but he probably wasn't going to get many chances if he was playing teams of West Hams level every round. Loan in January probably makes the most sense. Or establishing van de beek in the team so he has a more natural introduction (or whatever other midfielder he's most similar to).
I'd give him starts in the league cup but obviously thats off the cards. They're not that good a team but he probably wasn't going to get many chances if he was playing teams of West Hams level every round. Loan in January probably makes the most sense. Or establishing van de beek in the team so he has a more natural introduction (or whatever other midfielder he's most similar to).
This is not about chucking a kid in and sticking it out with him for a full season. This is rather about preparing a youngster with huge potential for the future by giving him minutes and having him as a sub option. And it's quite concerning he (Ole) didn't even think Hannibal was worthy of minutes ahead of Pereira and Mata in meaningless warm up matches.
Just take Emery at Villareal as a example who prepared young 18 year old Pino Santos by giving him sub appearances in games at the start of the season which prepared the youngster to start the Europa league final against us. In contrast Solskjaer had Amad Diallo as a sub option in the final and didn't even use him. Diallo IMO is a bigger talent than the Villareal kid.
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Have to agree with @Adnan here. You have players like Pedri, Musiala and Bellingham playing regularly for quality sides across Europe. Hell, look at Jones at Liverpool. The fact that Mejbri can’t even get a kick is a joke. Especially considering the current state of our midfield.
“If you’re good enough, you’re old enough.”
The real issue is what OGS and co want from our midfield though. It’s industry over technique. Which is why Donny rarely gets a kick either.
“If you’re good enough, you’re old enough.”
The real issue is what OGS and co want from our midfield though. It’s industry over technique. Which is why Donny rarely gets a kick either.
10 minutes here and there to get experience I can agree with. But chucking him in as a full time solution I don’t agree with anyone that says it. It would have every chance of destroying the lad as it does of making a star out of him
Which I can understand when you’ve got Pogba, Bruno, Ronaldo up front
I feel we won’t solve the midfield conundrum until we solve the Pogba one
10 minutes here and there can easily turn into starting full games. And that's how the likes of Jude Bellingham, Pedri etc have excelled at Dortmund and Barca after leaving Birmingham and Las Palmas respectively as 17 year olds. I don't believe either Pedri or Bellingham would've progressed the way that they have at their current clubs under Solskjaer, because he wouldn't have used either player ahead of McFred IMO.
Possibly. But I think it’s suicidal playing runners in midfield with Ronaldo upfront. We should be trying to proactively control midfield rather than taking a reactive approach. It would be different if teams were coming at us allowing for quick counters. But that simply isn’t the case now.
- Ole is being forced to win a trophy this season.
- Our only actual CDM that could hold a player like Hannibal is like 40 years old and needs to be replaced
- We have players like VDB that has pressure to start, he who probably needs a CDM to play next to him anyway.
- We now have a striker like Ronaldo who needs extra creativity around the pitch. A player like Pogba needs to be used as well for Ronaldo to score. He needs the perfect CDM to get the best out of him anyway.
- Mctominay and Fred are still being used because we don't have any CDM that can play the whole game and provide the balance of young matic except these two together.
I don't think Hannibal can be used right now, we are not just fighting for the top 4 or at the end of the season like last year when Ole gave games to Elanga.
Anyway this is the thread about Rice - just shows me that buying that shielding player and having that in our locker is not a waste.
Precisely. Our club is under more pressure than probably any other - partly due to fans who are fickle and show no patience. Why would he chuck an untried 19 year old in under those stresses?
I think you’re being unrealistic. Oles job is on the line. He’s going to stick to what he trusts
And it's his trust in the likes of McTominay which will be his undoing which will see us not get any where close to winning the league.
Like I've said to you before, Ole is flogging a dead horse in McFred and it's gonna set us further back in the quest to win the league.
But they don't play in Hannibal's position, do they?
I could see him as an #8 in a 4-3-3 but the way we play the only positions for him is either as a #10 or on the left wing.
You may or may not be right but he’s still not going to throw him in, untried into his midfield whey he’s under mounting pressure.
it may or may not be his undoing, but I can understand it
Solskjaer is trying to play a higher line with two midfielders who are expected to defend aswell as attack. And let's be honest, it's not going well is it? because the opposition easily by-pass the forward and midfield pressure which means we're unable to sustain attacks.
Hannibal can be deployed in the second #6 role as the more adventurous midfielder next to someone who is more disciplined. Technically he's already superior to McTominay IMO which isn't difficult. But the issue isn't that Hannibal can't play in such a role, but rather the team is dysfunctional on the turn over when attempting to play with more risk.
I agree Solskjaer isn't gonna throw him in. He didn't even throw him in during meaningless games in pre-season over the likes of Mata and Pereira. And youngsters like Pedri who have shone in games at the highest level, I don't believe would get much of a look-in under Solskjaer because he's not looking to contest a midfield battle via exerting zonal control which requires technically high level players.
We will scrape top 4, but won't contest for the league, because our approach to the game is very basic IMO with a over reliance on players who are not technically very good.
Agreed entirely. Barca have the likes of Gavi, Pedri etc given a chance to shine at a young age.
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If this new deal happens, expect Donny to be shipped off at the earliest opportunity and us to target Rice next summer, with a view to Pogba being moved back into midfield and partnering with Rice.
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Luis Enrique starts 17 yo Gavi, brings on 18 yo Pino and 20 yo Bryan Gil and beats the champions of Europe. That is the difference.
Did he use similar players in the Euros too?
Anyway, Enrique is the manager I've always reccomended for our future because his Barcelona was more robust with Rakitic and Suarez etc.
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