And I’m saying that while their passing may have similar numbers, De Bruyne’s is of superior quality, which perhaps can only be seen from watching the football.
And yes, he can also carry the ball much better, and finish much better.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Goals
- 15
- Assists
- 11
- Yellow cards
- 11
And yes, he can also carry the ball much better, and finish much better.
I compared him to the player generally believed to be the best attacking midfielder in the world and in response to the spray and pray nonsense.
Odegaard does have better passing but again he plays in a better team and he is tasked with doing less defensive work. Which again makes Odegaard’s job easier. For the same time period I used before he is slightly less creative though he’s certainly much better this season.
I watch football thanks. And I’ve never said De Bruyne isn’t a better player. I’m responding to the spray and pray comment. The best in the game does it just as much.
I mean, whatever you attempted to do - you've failed to do so in my eyes - as my previous post shows that you can do what Bruno does or close to it with much better passing accuracy as shown by Gross and Odegaard - and again De Bruyne being a technically better player than Bruno isn’t mutually exclusive with him spraying and praying as well - the difference being De Bruyne can afford to do so.
I’m also referring to their passing. You responded to the spray and pray by referencing similarity in numbers. I’m saying that a similarity in passing numbers doesn’t mean there isn’t a clear difference in passing quality.
I only referenced other qualities because you said ‘he carries the ball better too’. My initial point was limited to passing. I see De Bruyne as better at passing, despite what their numbers may say.
Bruno's positioning and lack of composure is hurting us a lot at the moment. On top of that he doesnt really create many clear cut chances at the moment.
So yes we can absolutely upgrade and we probably should when you think about his age. That having been said, we dont really have anyone in the squad at the moment that would upgrade that spot.
So yes we can absolutely upgrade and we probably should when you think about his age. That having been said, we dont really have anyone in the squad at the moment that would upgrade that spot.
Well that comes down to a matter of opinion that can’t really be proved one way or the other. What can’t be disputed is that he gives the ball away as much.
Oh no.
Pascal Gross is nowhere near as creative as Bruno if you look at more than 6 months.
Yeah it’s super arbitrary because I’m quite sure you can make a simple pass and if a player drives past 3 defenders and shoots that counts as a “chance created”.
I think Bruno had like 8 “created chances” statistically in the Villa game when I couldn’t name more than one actual chance he truly created. BCC is a bit better because those are mainly just true goalscoring opportunities where you’ve put it on a plate.
Yeah well, says more than what I can say about the chance creation stat that was posted here, and which I was saying means nothing to me. Nevertheless I was discussing Bruno this season, and why I think he should be moved on - not some back dated version of him with an arbitrary cut off point that inflates his chance creation.
Agree with this heavily. “Giving the ball away” isn’t a bad thing in a vacuum, but the situational context around when the ball is given away matters heavily and you can’t really quantify that through statistics. You’d have to watch full 90s to get an accurate scope of it.
Whatever the feck with Bruno having similar x as KDB, Bruno has been absolutely awful this season, bang average last season and awful the season before. While KDB has been majestic and a key reason for the trophies to his name (together with cheating perhaps the two biggest reasons)
What isn’t a matter of opinion is that KDB is many levels better at football than Bruno.
Nobody is saying that Bruno is on par with, or better at football than De Bruyne. If you had basic reading comprehension skills, then you'd understand that.
I have very little faith in the accuracy of stats as I see a lot of matches numbers on shots saves, shots attempted and others just don’t conform to what I see. That said, Bruno does come up with some pretty eye watering balls (not intended as a pun) that none of his teammates are capable save Eriksen in peak form. I’m of the view that Mount was brought in to replace Bruno but if there were such a thing as consistent peak Bruno that player would be in the same conversation as De Bruyne. What separates De Bruyne is his incredible consistency and Bruno is anything but consistent.
The one stark difference between them is that De Bruyne knows when to play the pass, wheatear its short, long, behind etc.
You can see him make 4, 5, 6 simple passes in the opposition third until he sees an opening worthy of a pass, where Bruno always plays like he has 2 touch rule in training, it looks forced in most instances.
This is truly costing us during games, as he is our creator of good, but also creator of chaos by simply giving the ball away too fast, where De Bruyne plays the extra simple passes. Bruno seems incapable of reading WHEN to speed things up, and when to slow it down. He speed of play is like a flat line, no matter if we are leading by a goal, if we are losing or we have 3 goal lead.
Who replaces Bruno?
Pogba was better.
For me the ideal replacement would be Florian Wirtz. You lose some of Brunos defensive work, but gain a player who is a fantastic passer and actually carries the ball and takes players on.
I completely agree. Has no tactical discipline. Sometimes I wonder what if someone like Guardiola could have coached him on how to set tempo and when to pick the right time to pass and how to press properly instead of like some headless chicken.
Too much is being asked from him at the moment. Play him in a free role #10, don't force him into more restricted role that he isn't suited to perform.
I swear this club has a fetish of turning attacking midfielders into central midfielders and nobody (the player, the team) benefits on this.
I swear this club has a fetish of turning attacking midfielders into central midfielders and nobody (the player, the team) benefits on this.
Diallo
Nonsense.
It’s fair to say that both of these players are players predominantly known for their passing ability. If they are on a similar level in terms of passing then I’d suggest that they would be at a similar level overall as players. KDB Carrie’s the ball better sure…but it’s hardly that alone that makes him so much better than Bruno that it isn’t even close.
How you doing anyway? You always seem so angry when you write.
If we want to progress as a team, we have to make big decisions and not hang on to players year after year when their performances don’t warrant it. I get ETH may be reluctant to bench him especially if we then go out and get beat, but Bruno’s game currently doesn’t fit our style and we simply cannot afford to give the ball away the amount of times he does. The incident at the end of the game on Sunday was the final straw for me. It came from a player who looked like he had the freedom to do what he wanted, when he wanted with no consequences. He has to start Amad or Eriksen against Fulham after that or it proves to the rest of the squad and the fan base, if we didnt already know, that Bruno is untouchable.
It’s not though.
That shot he took in the last minutes against Luton really summed up so much of his game to me. For us to have our own corner with a minute or two left in the game and for our captain to take that on and help cause us to be defending a corner that Luton hit the bar from is so poor. Completely wrong decision under the slightest bit of pressure. Decision making when under pressure is what separates the elite from the rest and I'm afraid Bruno lacks in that department and shows little sign of improvement. He is at an age now where if a decent offer came in for him it would probably be prudent to move him on, though he has served the club well.
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The entire City midfield works their socks off. De Bruyne might look like he has less defensive burden but that's because he needs to make fewer recovery runs since his team keeps the ball better. We give it away all the time and our captain is the biggest culprit. Kevin Debruyne is creative and plays risky passes but he is far ahead of Bruno when it comes to ball circulation and knowing when to play hero ball.
Pep won't stand for Bruno Fernandes.
When it comes to off-the-ball work, Bruno is a hard worker I'll give him that, but it all seems a bit helter-skelter. I am not sure I see the coordinated press. I don't know who to blame for that though, Bruno or his teammates.
I haven't even started on the fact that he always seems one of the first to lose his head and all composure.
Who in the current team creates anything? He doesn’t need to be physically imposing. He’s in the team to make chances. He’s hardly a slouch for making the odd tackle and tracking back.
yeah his ceiling was higher but sadly his fitness and mentality didn’t allow him to achieve what he should have.
Play Eriksen or McTominay in the #10 and the team will function better.
I doubt Guardiola would ever be interested in (a player like) him. He's the antithesis of a Pep midfielder, which is why the comparisons with KdB are silly. To play in Guardiola's sides, you must possess the individual skill to "dominate" the zone assigned to your role, and you must also learn to serve the structure. It's the structure that allows you to be dominant. The first principle of positional play is that you don't go to the ball, the ball comes to you. Guardiola has added his own addendum to that: When in lack of good options to progress the play, reset and build-up again. Mixing Bruno with these two things is like mixing oil with water. I would just add to the post you quoted that KdB's brilliance is that he's super productive by serving the most demanding system out there. Yes, serving. That's what Pep demands, and that's why most of his signings need a season to settle (and some of them leave because they can't keep doing it every season). You will never hear a discussion about what needs to be done to "free KdB up" or "unlock him". His skill set allows rotations within the structure with the unit remaining as strong as ever: Both CM positions (inside channels), both winger positions (wide channels), even right-back and false #9 runs. He can seamlessly do the job anywhere without others adjusting to him. We, on the other hand, have been chasing our tail for years, trying to build teams around specific players instead of systems.
I mean he’s the attacking midfielder - he’s the one supposed to create. Also, Garnacho has been carrying a substantial part of our attacking threat.
And me saying he’s not physically imposing was me simply going through many attributes he doesn’t have - as to expound on my belief that he should be moved on now - the reasoning there relating to ball retention/protection/press resistance - physical prowess is still important in sports - some players can make up for lack of physical attributes by being really great technicians and hard to dispossess - Bruno doesn’t have the technical nor physical attributes necessary, and at 29 with how careless he is in possession, in this United team - it’s not looking good
I’ll be shocked if we sell him. There’s never been any articles linking him away from United that I can remember so sadly for you I think we are stuck with him.
But heres hoping for some better performances from him in the near furure…..I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets a goal against Fulham.
Whats wrong with our bruno? His decline this season has been evident
Pretty much every United player has declined this season, with the exception of maybe Dalot and Garnacho.
We saw the same during the Rangnick season. When the team is tactically all over the place, then it's not the best environment for individuals to excel.
Good shout. Wirtz is the best player in that Leverkusen side and that's saying something.
I very much doubt we will sell him too, it hasn’t been how we do things - it doesn’t mean I can’t think it’s what we should do. Bruno is 29 and nothing about the way he plays inspires me with confidence he will change his game or get better as he ages. Thus, now - whilst he still has some rep from when he was super productive would be the moment to start phasing him out, in my opinion. But alas,
Also, wouldn’t be surprised if he scores in our next game, I think the pattern has been two or three underwhelming games followed by one where he scores and assists, which is then followed by two or three underwhelming games rinse and repeat. It is what it is. So long as we win
Yeah I don't understand why he does this. Its like he thinks great players do everything in less than 2 touches so he's imposed that rule on himself.
Watching that 1v1 again today, it looks as if it was even going wide before Lokonga’s block? Was scared to post due to ‘hate’ allegations and all that, but I just thought of it in the context of the conversation about his current finishing.
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To me it looks like it would go comfortably in. It was a great block.