Funny, switch Xhaka and Kimmich in both teams and I'm pretty sure Bayern would be above Leverkusen. Think I've read a stat that all 6 games Bayern played without Kimmich this season were won, some even quite convincingly (already a feat for Tuchel at that club) and against strong oppos too.
Thomas Tuchel | Gone to & from Bayern (In Summer)
- Thread starter Bastian
- Start date
That isn't Xhaka's role though, it's Palacios and Andrich more. So for Xhaka, Kimmich definitely plays. Palacios is the only player I would have a conversation with because he is really talented and doing well. Would you seriously say that if Bayern went to Leverkusen and said give us Andrich or Xhaka and we'll give you Kimmich, Leverkusen will say no?
Dortmund are hardly a strong opposition for Bayern, I would only count Stuttgart in that. Other than that it's Heidenheim, Augsburg, Wolfsburg and Gladbach. All of them were bottom half of the table. And funny you don't mention Leverkusen, where Kimmich also didn't start but Leverkusen were very comfortable.
Last edited:
In the current setup yes, I would not be surprised if Leverkusen says no. And it is absolutely Xhaka's role to play more defensive and "holding" than what Kimmich usually does.
There is only one exception, and that is kind of an off-pitch discussion one would need to have with Kimmich: If he understands and accepts that he is not there to lead in any way, but that his only job is to put in a shift in a specific position and nothing else, so essentially accepts a massive step down in his own expectations towards his importance to the team, than he might be great. He too often seems to want to do everything on his own, which makes him and his team worse.
I think they're playing every bit as good as Kimmich in his best season.right now. And right now, they're quite obviously better. Tuchel didn't even start Kimmich against us and subbed him off after 60 minutes against Bochum. He's easily the most criticized player among Bayern and Germany fans this season because he plays hero ball and is tacticslly indisciplined.
Xhaka is basically the anchor, if anything Kimmich would play Palacios role. But both are required to be very disciplined to not expose the backline. And they are expected to resist the urge to play through balls all the time and keep it simple. Another thing Kimmich isn't particularly good at.
Xhaka has lower defensive actions than Kimmich this season, it is Palacios who dominates in those categories. Xhaka moves the ball forward and is a sort of playmaker in that respect. He averages slightly more shot creating actions than Kimmich and much more than Palacios.
Kimmich plays hero ball but his passing percentage is 91%. Hero ball is what to describe how Pogba and Bruno play/played for United. For Bayern, it's ironic that on the one hand we have people saying he plays hero ball and doesn't keep it simple, while others complain he makes the game too slow.
Palacios is allowed to roam more both in offense between the lines and in defense to press. Xhaka is the one who holds his position, advances the ball, distributes it out wide, etc. That's how he collects shot creating actions I guess. You can see that in the stats as well:
Xhaka has 1,38 progressive passes received, 11,24 progressive passes, 11.89 passes into final third, 0,17 xA and 1,37 key passes; Palacios has 2,34 progressive passes received, 7.81 progessive passes, 9.25 passes into final third, 0,2 xA and 1,37 key passes.
Regarding Kimmich: fbref for instance has him at 85% passing accuracy for the 19/20 Bundesliga season and 86% for the 23/24 one. My ticker app says 87% against Bochum. Sofascore has him at 91% for the season, though. I wonder where that difference comes from, haven't seen it with any other player. That aside, it is often criticized by Bayern fans on transfermarkt etc. as well.
Yes, but that's not the point. I never said that Xhaka defends more than Kimmich, but that he holds his position more. Just compare their heatmaps, you will see a big difference. As you write, it's Xhaka's role to move the ball, not move himself like Kimmich does. That's the big difference in their roles and I don't believe Kimmich could play the Xhaka role as well, neither could Xhaka play the Kimmich role.
The question simply is: Which role is required for a certain team? And Leverkusen needs someone like Xhaka, not someone like Kimmich.
On the passing percentage, I think it's because fbref also includes set pieces in the long passing accuracy, which is why Kimmich is very low overall and on long passing compared to his peers. He has 91% passing accuracy on whoscored and fotmob as well.
With the stats you mentioned for Xhaka and Palacios, that also indicates that Xhaka plays further forward than Palacios. When looking at defensive actions I remember seeing Palacios have more defensive actions in the defensive third versus Xhaka as well.
Then why does Palacios receive.more progressive passes?
Most Leverkusen fans see Andrich as the back up for Xhaka by the way and hope for a new CM that can rotate with Palacios. He's missed right now because Andrich can't really play his roleSeems he's been sacked, but will finish this season.
Leaving Bayern at the end of the season
Would be suprised if he makes it that far
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Would be suprised if he makes it that far
Good decision.
But im not sure if he will make a good "lame duck" till the end of the season.
But im not sure if he will make a good "lame duck" till the end of the season.
Weird managerial spell, his trophy haul belies his actual ability as a manager.
It doesn't seem "sustainable" for Bayern to be incapable of holding down a coach for longer than 2 seasons, IMO.
I hope those responsible for Naggelsmann’s sacking swiftly handed in their resignation
Most ridiculous sacking possibly ever. In all 3 trophies having lost only 3 games in a year ffs.
Most ridiculous sacking possibly ever. In all 3 trophies having lost only 3 games in a year ffs.
Another big club looking for a manager this summer. It's going to be quite a shake up across big European teams.
They were already fired end of last season
Their season is going to go down the toilet now. Weird to essentially sack him but make him see out the season.
Are Bayern just suffering from a lack of German talent? Normally they'd poach the best German players but these days are the top German players that good? At international level they've been floundering.
What's more, they aren't bringing in top quality international players for the most part (a few exceptions). The weakness of the league can cover up for what they lack but they got off lucky last year and now it seems they are getting found out.
What's more, they aren't bringing in top quality international players for the most part (a few exceptions). The weakness of the league can cover up for what they lack but they got off lucky last year and now it seems they are getting found out.
It could be working, especially if half the players don't like him. They don't need to play bad to get him sacked now (if that is a thing)
I think it sounds like a good solution for now
Not quite gardening leave.
He has already antagonized or lost many players and now nobody has good reason to listen to him anymore. An interim is definitely needed.
Seems like a really strange decision to announce now. Must have given up on this season. If he is going to go then an interim until the end of the season should have been the way forward with how the dressing room seems to feel about him.
That is a strange one. Can't imagine it will work out very well for the rest of the season.
Possible. But maybe even the players he lost can now play with less pressure and are more motivated to secure their spot for Freund, Eberl and the next coach?!
No idea who this benefits announcing it like this? Just bin him now, they'd be better off with a interim new manager bounce.
Bringing in Eric Dier was the final straw
How does that work exactly. Bayern is weird
Sacking the manager now but 'Do you work' till the end of season. Will work well I'm sure of it.
Get Ole in. He'd get you playing for a few months.
Tuchel to Liverpool!!
Sack Tuchel, Hire Eber
Bayern doesn’t mess around. Proper club.
Good, hopefully they go after Xabi Alonso
Is it crazy to consider they might have an agreement with Alonso for the summer?
Don’t see why he would want to leave right now but it would surely be an attractive role for next season.
Don’t see why he would want to leave right now but it would surely be an attractive role for next season.
No interim Ole 
They're letting their sacked manager stay, hardly "not messing around"
Something tells me we wouldn't be called a "proper club" if we announced we were sacking Ten Hag at the end of the season, he's not doing well enough but he's free to finish the season because eh why not!
He'd be my number 1 choice as next manager, but he's not perfect to say the least.
Alonso to Bayern, Tuchel to Pool?