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In his very very few chances he's had here, he's generally looked easily PL level quality. Whether he's CL level quality is another question, but it's hard to make a judgement on a player who has barely played.Not a top level player. I imagine he'll end up making a fine career for himself in Spain at a miserable club but he's not good enough for us. Was ok today, absolutely nothing special, but his fanclub here is odd to me. He's never shown anything to merit it at PL level.
Agreed, but today ten Hag started Forson and although we were all excited to see what Forson has in locker it proved to be a disastrous decision.No he’s not. Garnacho is.
Antony is currently a nothing player though.Garnacho is a better RW option by a distance. And I would probably say Antony also is, unpopular though that may be (and much as I don't rate Antony). I think Amad will turn out to be a nothing player
There's no fan club. I imagine for most people, including myself, it's play him or sell him. But take some action. Any action, rather than have yet another player sitting around or going on endless loans.Not a top level player. I imagine he'll end up making a fine career for himself in Spain at a miserable club but he's not good enough for us. Was ok today, absolutely nothing special, but his fanclub here is odd to me. He's never shown anything to merit it at PL level.
He's average, agreed. Midtable level. Ditto Amad, though he also falls short of Antony in terms of physicality. He's just had fewer minutes for people to pick apart.Antony is currently a nothing player though.
Agree with this...total waste of our time and his career.There's no fan club. I imagine for most people, including myself, it's play him or sell him. But take some action. Any action, rather than have yet another player sitting around or going on endless loans.
And Dalot as United's senior right back should be communicating to him much better. Dalot's reaction at the shot speaks volumes- he messed up.Not at all. Amad’s run back was terrible and caused the confusion. Usually when a winger does that is because there’s an overlap. Amad just ran right in from of Dalot and past Iwobi to empty space. They were both absolutely fecking awful for it.
Tracking back isn’t worth shit when all it does is hurt your team.
We brought him on after 80 minutes in a completely dysfunctional team. We need to give him a decent opportunity to really judge him.Not a top level player. I imagine he'll end up making a fine career for himself in Spain at a miserable club but he's not good enough for us. Was ok today, absolutely nothing special, but his fanclub here is odd to me. He's never shown anything to merit it at PL level.
Productive how? What did he do?Strange to see the negative comments on Amad, as he really was more productive than critics here suggest. With Rashford in freefall it should be Garnacho on the left, Amad on the right and whoever we can stitch together at CF until Rasmus returns.
If were judging Antony of his first 40 minutes of football with us he was worth every penny of that transfer so maybe we should wait for more than 2 15-20 minute substitute appearances in a disheveled side where he actually improved our overall play before writing him off.Agree with this...total waste of our time and his career.
Have you only seen him play twice for us then?If were judging Antony of his first 40 minutes of football with us he was worth every penny of that transfer so maybe we should wait for more than 2 15-20 minute substitute appearances in a disheveled side where he actually improved our overall play before writing him off.
Oh don’t get me wrong I don’t rate Forson. i think we should have gone with a false 9 today and kept the Rashford/Garnacho wings that have been doing well.Agreed, but today ten Hag started Forson and although we were all excited to see what Forson has in locker it proved to be a disastrous decision.
Starting Rashford is understandable but surely there is no question that his performance today was horrific.
Given that his only appearances prior to that are about 2 years ago where he has since had multiple loans the most recent of which showed him to have genuine quality, I think judging his appearances as an undersized teenager is not really relevant to the player he is today. No one is saying he is locked on world class player, but you writing him off despite him only making two appearances as a substitute both after long injury layoffs is incredibly premature especially given that both those appearances he offered more than the options he replaced.Have you only seen him play twice for us then?
But what did he do today? I'm genuinely struggling to see what you're seeing. He only had ten minutes, yes, but if you make that argument the other way you could say that ten minutes isn't enough to say he offered more than the options he replaced. He still looks like he's lacking, physically, and he's done absolutely nothing to justify some posters saying he should be starting. I would love him to prove me wrong as I've honestly nothing against the player, I just think he's another example of us overpaying for mediocrity.Given that his only appearances prior to that are about 2 years ago where he has since had multiple loans the most recent of which showed him to have genuine quality, I think judging his appearances as an undersized teenager is not really relevant to the player he is today. No one is saying he is locked on world class player, but you writing him off despite him only making two appearances as a substitute both after long injury layoffs is incredibly premature especially given that both those appearances he offered more than the options he replaced.
Yeah this is pretty much where I am. He’s getting highly rated because he’s not playing rather than because he is. If that 10 minutes was played by Antony he would be getting ripped to pieces for losing us the game.But what did he do today? I'm genuinely struggling to see what you're seeing. He only had ten minutes, yes, but if you make that argument the other way you could say that ten minutes isn't enough to say he offered more than the options he replaced. He still looks like he's lacking, physically, and he's done absolutely nothing to justify some posters saying he should be starting. I would love him to prove me wrong as I've honestly nothing against the player, I just think he's another example of us overpaying for mediocrity.
He actually played the right wing position for a start which is more than Forson or Fernandes did meaning that we attacked across the whole pitch rather than playing jam ball through the middle. I don't expect any of our wingers to have success the way we played today given that they both don't have any overlapping fullback and have a center forward who is a complete non-threat in the box, so really all they could do was try and dribble 3 players and have a shot. That being said, when he came on, we were finally able to actually hold some possession in their final third because he had positional discipline. He should have been played in a few more times and could have had some decent opportunities if the passes were better. He also played a good ball across goal that the defender had to cut out otherwise Varane had a tap in.But what did he do today? I'm genuinely struggling to see what you're seeing. He only had ten minutes, yes, but if you make that argument the other way you could say that ten minutes isn't enough to say he offered more than the options he replaced. He still looks like he's lacking, physically, and he's done absolutely nothing to justify some posters saying he should be starting. I would love him to prove me wrong as I've honestly nothing against the player, I just think he's another example of us overpaying for mediocrity.
Exactly what I think. I think most fanbases are pretty great at hyping players to the high heavens when they're not playing, only to come back down to earth when they get minutes.Yeah this is pretty much where I am. He’s getting highly rated because he’s not playing rather than because he is. If that 10 minutes was played by Antony he would be getting ripped to pieces for losing us the game.
I hope he’s brilliant, but so far he’s shown nothing to say he’s as good as some think.
All I'm seeing from this is that he provided width without doing anything with it and he played a pass across goal that was cut out. Everything else is rationalising why he wasn't able to be effective. I don't disagree that he didn't really have time to impose himself but to say he should be starting (I know you didn't say that) or given significant minutes when he's not shown much to deserve it (and obviously hasn't shown much in training to more than one manager) is just wishful thinking imo.He actually played the right wing position for a start which is more than Forson or Fernandes did meaning that we attacked across the whole pitch rather than playing jam ball through the middle. I don't expect any of our wingers to have success the way we played today given that they both don't have any overlapping fullback and have a center forward who is a complete non-threat in the box, so really all they could do was try and dribble 3 players and have a shot. That being said, when he came on, we were finally able to actually hold some possession in their final third because he had positional discipline. He should have been played in a few more times and could have had some decent opportunities if the passes were better. He also played a good ball across goal that the defender had to cut out otherwise Varane had a tap in.
Once again, no one is saying he had some 10/10 performance, just that he deserves more than random sub appearances 3 months apart for 10 minutes to actually prove himself. If he isn't good enough, then fine, but at least give him 2 or 3 games either from the start or at least 30+ minutes as a sub to prove or disprove that before writing him off as bang average. It's not like we have some elite right wingers on the bench who he would be taking minutes from anyway.
He has shown more in his 40 odd minutes than Antony in the better part of two seasons or Forson in 2 games. No one is "hyping him up", were just saying maybe he should have played more than 40 minutes so far this season given the dearth of quality right wing options we have. He is a talented player who we could at worst probably sell for a decent chunk of money if we actually gave him minutes, and that alone is reason enough to justify him getting more minutes given our FFP status.Exactly what I think. I think most fanbases are pretty great at hyping players to the high heavens when they're not playing, only to come back down to earth when they get minutes.
All I'm seeing from this is that he provided width without doing anything with it and he played a pass across goal that was cut out. Everything else is rationalising why he wasn't able to be effective. I don't disagree that he didn't really have time to impose himself but to say he should be starting (I know you didn't say that) or given significant minutes when he's not shown much to deserve it (and obviously hasn't shown much in training to more than one manager) is just wishful thinking imo.
That's where I'm at with it all. He's 21 now, he's hardly a teenager breaking through and doesn't have the physique for the PL, same with Pellistri.But what did he do today? I'm genuinely struggling to see what you're seeing. He only had ten minutes, yes, but if you make that argument the other way you could say that ten minutes isn't enough to say he offered more than the options he replaced. He still looks like he's lacking, physically, and he's done absolutely nothing to justify some posters saying he should be starting. I would love him to prove me wrong as I've honestly nothing against the player, I just think he's another example of us overpaying for mediocrity.
Agreed. Such a strange summer, that one.That's where I'm at with it all. He's 21 now, he's hardly a teenager breaking through and doesn't have the physique for the PL, same with Pellistri.
The summer of signing Amad, van de Beek and Pellistri was atrocious.
Nobody is hyping him up to the degree you say they are. It's just you making a strawman to defend not playing him more minutes. People want him to get a chance.Exactly what I think. I think most fanbases are pretty great at hyping players to the high heavens when they're not playing, only to come back down to earth when they get minutes.
All I'm seeing from this is that he provided width without doing anything with it and he played a pass across goal that was cut out. Everything else is rationalising why he wasn't able to be effective. I don't disagree that he didn't really have time to impose himself but to say he should be starting (I know you didn't say that) or given significant minutes when he's not shown much to deserve it (and obviously hasn't shown much in training to more than one manager) is just wishful thinking imo.
What is the point in lumping him in with Pellistri? Pellistri has gotten way more minutes to prove your hypothesis. Because that's all that is. A guess without much evidence.That's where I'm at with it all. He's 21 now, he's hardly a teenager breaking through and doesn't have the physique for the PL, same with Pellistri.
The summer of signing Amad, van de Beek and Pellistri was atrocious.
Antony would get ripped apart because he's had thousands of minutes proving what you saw is not a fluke. In other words, actual evidence. That's how this works.Yeah this is pretty much where I am. He’s getting highly rated because he’s not playing rather than because he is. If that 10 minutes was played by Antony he would be getting ripped to pieces for losing us the game.
I hope he’s brilliant, but so far he’s shown nothing to say he’s as good as some think.
I too like to make determinative judgements based on two 15 minute substitute appearances 2 months apart coming off of long term injuries while playing in a dysfunctional team.He's miles away from being a Premier League player from what we've seen.
People need to stop shifting the goalposts. Everyone has been asking him to come on as a sub instead of Antony, which he did today but now it's ten Hag fault for only bringing him on for 15 minutes?I too like to make determinative judgements based on two 15 minute substitute appearances 2 months apart coming off of long term injuries while playing in a dysfunctional team.
Bringing on any player for 10-20 minutes and expecting them to be difference makers is just silly especially when they haven't had any minutes due to a series of injuries. If Ten Hag was managing the squat appropriately he would have already given Amad 3-4 other subsitute appearances earlier on these past 4 weeks (which people have been calling for) so that when we inevitably had an injury to one of our front 3, you have an option who at least has knocked the rust off and is ready to play. Instead his options today were a youth player in Forson who is simply not ready for this level of football, Amad who has hardly played, and Antony who has already shown himself to basically be a non-factor.People need to stop shifting the goalposts. Everyone has been asking him to come on as a sub instead of Antony, which he did today but now it's ten Hag fault for only bringing him on for 15 minutes?
He should have gone back to Sunderland on loan in January for the good of his career, warming our bench at 21 isn't improving him.
Then what's the point of bringing them on if he feels they won't change the game in our favour? Why make any subs for that matter?Bringing on any player for 10-20 minutes and expecting them to be difference makers is just silly especially when they haven't had any minutes due to a series of injuries. If Ten Hag was managing the squat appropriately he would have already given Amad 3-4 other subsitute appearances earlier on these past 4 weeks (which people have been calling for) so that when we inevitably had an injury to one of our front 3, you have an option who at least has knocked the rust off and is ready to play. Instead his options today were a youth player in Forson who is simply not ready for this level of football, Amad who has hardly played, and Antony who has already shown himself to basically be a non-factor.
Instead of making proactive substitutions in recent games to keep us on the front foot and kill off games, we make reactive substitutions and go into a shell, so none of our attacking options have had recent games because our manager was two afraid to bring them on for meaningful game time.
Easy enough to realise he looks like a kid playing with men.I too like to make determinative judgements based on two 15 minute substitute appearances 2 months apart coming off of long term injuries while playing in a dysfunctional team.
But he did offer something different? We were clearly a bigger threat at the end of the game when he came on given that he actually offered width. Again, it wasn't some amazing performance, but it also wasn't a bad one or with enough moments for people to be making determinative statements about his lack of quality.Then what's the point of bringing them on if he feels they won't change the game in our favour? Why make any subs for that matter?
He was brought on to offer something else than what we had on the pitch and failed.
People need to lessen their expectations, same with saying Amass should have started.
