Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Cassidy said:
From where ETH took over from Ajax thats an impressive UCL set of results also considering they lose their better players most summers

Once again a poor season and everything someone has done prior has to be down played
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I think people look back on history with a different view all the time. Ajax was always finishing 2nd even before he took over, and with some good players, good setup with Overmars, they made that difference and got them to the title. One good run in the CL. Maybe we all just fell for the hype back then.
 
bosnian_red said:
Goals conceded is a bit flukey for us this season and not sustainable. The shots are an easy problem to see, no big side should concede 20 shots per game, you don't need any detailed stat to say we shouldn't be at the same level as Sheffield United for anything. But you also can't just point at goals conceded and say it's been fine. We've very clearly been lucky with it, a simple look at the xG conceded speaks to that. We're 6th in goals conceded (not good by any means but not the worst), but are 12th in xG conceded. That just means Onana has bailed us out a bit in the league or opposing teams have just missed loads of chances, or a combo of the 2. Also, we are closer in xG conceded to West Ham in 17th than we are to Bournemouth in 11th. Arsenal, City and Liverpool are the top 3 sides and Luton, Sheffield and Burnley are the bottom 3. You can't just ignore stats like that.

The defensive organization is Ten Hags biggest problem. I think a lot of our attacking issues would be solved by of course more experienced players, better players, but mostly by just controlling games better through better defensive positioning. I don't think his offensive coaching is that big of an issue. But the question with him from his Ajax days are how will he adapt defensively, and that question has not been answered successfully. Go back 18 months and you'll see tons of those analyst accounts, tifo football, whoever basically go in depth on him and just be interested to see how his pressing strategy will work here. How will we close down spaces, will opposing teams take advantage of that. Better players can only do so much, the system has to control defensive spaces and be the reason for how you control games with and without the ball.
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I completely understand, and do actually agree with you. At least mostly.

All the stats you bring up are true (obviously, they're stats). But over 18 months into his reign and it's been the same all the way through really. Overperfoming xG scored and conceded. When something happens for 18 months, how much of a fluke is it?
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
ETH has managed 64 PL games though right :confused:
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Yeah and took over in preseason meaning he was allowed to make alterations to the squad (which was already much better than Liverpool’s to begin with), but do not let that get into the way of anything. ETH has been better than Klopp.
 
Cassidy said:
Better to build as you mean to go on and fix the holes in the squad sometimes
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It's the gaping holes in midfield that are the problem. Not the holes in the squad.

The CB's are more often than not on the halfway line they can't go any higher, but they have zero protection Infront of them we basically play with 2 8's and a ten in midfield with high wingers and high sometimes inverted full backs.

And what reward do we get for all that risk? Naff all, it's not as if we are a good attacking side either. The high press is decent at times, but and half decent side can bypass it regularly and low and behold we concede chances at will.
 
Bubz27 said:
I completely understand, and do actually agree with you. At least mostly.

All the stats you bring up are true (obviously, they're stats). But over 18 months into his reign and it's been the same all the way through really. Overperfoming xG scored and conceded. When something happens for 18 months, how much of a fluke is it?
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We've underperformed our xG scored both seasons, and overperformed. Defensively we're on pace to pretty much double the extent of overperformance compared to last season though.

But it's just stats that show it's not sustainable. You can't consistently overperform stuff like that, it turns eventually. Look at 17/18, de Gea was godly and we conceded over 15 goals fewer than our xG. The next season we underperformed our xG conceded. The 3 seasons after we were basically dead even to xG conceded. It's just something that goes up and down, you might get lucky for a while but it's not a viable tactic, and you hope to sort out the issue before the problem catches up to you.
 
mu4c_20le said:
I think people look back on history with a different view all the time. Ajax was always finishing 2nd even before he took over, and with some good players, good setup with Overmars, they made that difference and got them to the title. One good run in the CL. Maybe we all just fell for the hype back then.
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They didnt make the UCL for a number of years so to get to a semi and last 16 in 4 years is a good return. Silly to say otherwise when they were not spending crazy money and their better players were being poached
 
tjb said:
The sad thing is that if we beat Forest, people will come out of the woodwork and praise him. The standards of our fans are at the bottom of the barrel and it requires figures with less emotional attachment and better metrics based decision making to take action. Thankfully, we no longer have Woodward and Arnold trying to curry favor with the fans. My theory is that we're late to sack managers and dismiss players because the non-football men above the manager weren't football people, so guaged failure on fan discontent, which varied from week to week. Only when the ball dropped, and the media were in full support, did they ever take action. Even then, they took extra weeks to ensure certainty, leaving us with ruined seasons.
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I don’t think it’s as sad as previous as Ineos aren’t here to make decisions on whims & cow-tow to reactionary opinions.

They talk so much about the long term, I doubt it’s a case of us scraping Champions League meaning he’d keep the job.
 
Longshanks said:
When you concede 17 shots to a league 2 side after going 2-0 up very quickly. With pretty much your strongest team available and playing it's probably time to give up top level management in all honesty.
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It's baffling that anyone is defending what we're seeing with 'yeah but injuries and structure'. Completely misses the point.
 
Cassidy said:
Better to build as you mean to go on and fix the holes in the squad sometimes
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In theory. Why keep trying to build the same puzzle when you can't get the pieces you need though?

Our squad is not built to do the things Ten Hag wants. There's no real pace or passing ability in the back line. Take one or two starters out and whatever press resistance exists goes out the window.

I agree, ideally, we'd have four, fast ball playing centre backs: Two left footed, two right. We'd have top attacking full backs with insane output as well as pace and physicality. We'd have more than one central midfielder who's calm under pressure and two, quality workhorses to choose from as a partner. Plus forwards who use the ball well and more than one central striking option that we can play off.

But we do not have that.

Nor does it look like we will have that in the near term. So why keep persisting with an approach that cannot get the best out of what we have?

We all know that the club needed to do better refreshing the squad. But it hasn't. Feels like Ten Hag is managing the squad he'd like to have not the one he actually has.
 
Longshanks said:
It's the gaping holes in midfield that are the problem. Not the holes in the squad.

The CB's are more often than not on the halfway line they can't go any higher, but they have zero protection Infront of them we basically play with 2 8's and a ten in midfield with high wingers and high sometimes inverted full backs.

And what reward do we get for all that risk? Naff all, it's not as if we are a good attacking side either. The high press is decent at times, but and half decent side can bypass it regularly and low and behold we concede chances at will.
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The midfield being empty is a symptom anyway it doesn’t really matter because the end result is the same. Poor rest defence and poor structure for dealing with the counter.

The thing is though the defensive line is more of an issue than the midfield setup in the cause
 
It's hard to argue with some of the analysis we see on MNF. Yes of course some of it is soundbite and sensationalist, it's dangerous to look at clips in isolation and judge that as what the status quo is. However does it come as any coincidence we have conceded so many shots when we see how we are set up. How many goals have we conceded this season from shots on the edge of the box, not because this is world class football we are up against, it's midfielders not knowing their jobs and not tracking the runners.

I am all for high intensity football but that should not mean your full backs are playing so high that they get muscle injuries sprinting back. Thats not high intensity, it's insanity.

Bruno plays best when he has green grass in front of him but we are seeing him play more and more on the last line back to goal rather than prime creator.

I really wanted it to work for ETH but I actually think we look worse off now in every department than this time last year. The football isn't great on the eye either.
 
#07 said:
In theory. Why keep trying to build the same puzzle when you can't get the pieces you need though?

Our squad is not built to do the things Ten Hag wants. There's no real pace or passing ability in the back line. Take one or two starters out and whatever press resistance exists goes out the window.

I agree, ideally, we'd have four, fast ball playing centre backs: Two left footed, two right. We'd have top attacking full backs with insane output as well as pace and physicality. We'd have more than one central midfielder who's calm under pressure and two, quality workhorses to choose from as a partner. Plus forwards who use the ball well and more than one central striking option that we can play off.

But we do not have that.

Nor does it look like we will have that in the near term. So why keep persisting with an approach that cannot get the best out of what we have?

We all know that the club needed to do better refreshing the squad. But it hasn't. Feels like Ten Hag is managing the squad he'd like to have not the one he actually has.
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I only posted to make a small point not to agree with ETH by the way.

I have no idea why he has not adjusted to compensate.

However it is true that the latter option is likely better for the longer term.
 
r3idy said:
It's hard to argue with some of the analysis we see on MNF. Yes of course some of it is soundbite and sensationalist, it's dangerous to look at clips in isolation and judge that as what the status quo is. However does it come as any coincidence we have conceded so many shots when we see how we are set up. How many goals have we conceded this season from shots on the edge of the box, not because this is world class football we are up against, it's midfielders not knowing their jobs and not tracking the runners.

I am all for high intensity football but that should not mean your full backs are playing so high that they get muscle injuries sprinting back. Thats not high intensity, it's insanity.

Bruno plays best when he has green grass in front of him but we are seeing him play more and more on the last line back to goal rather than prime creator.

I really wanted it to work for ETH but I actually think we look worse off now in every department than this time last year. The football isn't great on the eye either.
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Our fullbacks don’t player higher than other top sides in the league by the way
 
By fact, teams who have gotten results off of us have come out and categorically stated why and how and that it was all to their plan - watch that MNF and envisage far more detailed information being delivered to teams we're facing, geeing them up and giving them very clear objectives and belief to go into the game with.

Because we have no clue how to kill games we're up in, these teams are also enthused to keep going all game where they mightn't verses other sides who will have them playing chase, further demoralising them more often than not.

Our tactics and tactical setup are fuel for opposing sides to go at it all game and not have their heads drop.
 
Just look at the tactics and instructions, you will know why we are trash. It is always 5-6 versus 3-4 at the back, we are crave open everytime we lose the ball. Even a simple corner for us will lead to a scoring chance the other end, can Erik tell me how many scoring have we score from setpiece? If we aren't scoring then why are we commiting so many players in the box? Most teams have better corners threat than United. Lastly, there is lack of effort from players. Likes of Rashford, Bruno and Garnacho will not defend for the whole game. They might defend in the 1st half as the game wore on, they will stop running back. Erik is out of his depth, I hope Ratcliffe can put him out of his misery (us as well). It is really hard to be a fan when your club has fallen so badly.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Good to know it works against Luton. The next step will be to conquer Bournemouth, then we'll know we're on the right track.
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Glad you’re on board.
Sarni said:
Yep worked like a treat. We restricted Fulham to just two goals. Definition of success.

Only difference between that and Luton games is we were gifted two early goals then and weren’t against Fulham.



So many loans = 2. Well, Dubravka too but he never played.

We could not afford a loan because he spent well over £400m.
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Check how many loans we’ve had to have over his reign:
  • Amrabat - loan
  • Reguilón - loan
  • Weghorst - loan
  • Dubravka - loan
  • Sabitzer - loan
  • Butland - loan
Does this scream dynasty to you? Does this bellow best in class?

Last time… Ten Hag doesn’t write the cheques.
Daydreamer said:
He’s spent £411m. That is very much the best part of half a billion. But if it means that much to you, we can stick with £411m. Hell, I’ll even round it down like you did - £400m. However his spending is referred to, it’s sufficient to sign quality players. He hasn’t done so, by your own admission.


Where exactly do you think Timber, Tomiyasu, Zinchenko, Partey and Jesus play? And these are some of our best players. Once again, you not just arguing against and Arsenal fan, but the Arsenal Manager who selects these players in key games whenever they’re available.


I never said key player, I said he’s in our first choice lineup. Because he is. He’s our second most expensive defender and he was picked ahead of all other options when available. You seem to want it both ways. Hojland and Mount were great losses to United’s team because your new signings weren’t fit. But Timber does his ACL and it’s no great loss. Your argument is all over the place.

The reason you think Smith-Rowe, Vieira and Tomiyasu aren’t important players is because we have coped well in their absence. If they were fit and in the United squad, they would all be playing on the weekend. You’re conflating player quality with how much they are missed by their team. We’ve performed well despite injuries because we are well coached. United have performed poorly with their injuries because they are coached poorly.

Take a second to read back what you’re writing and it will quickly become apparent that your arguments hold very little water.
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I agree for most clubs it’s sufficient to sign good players but who is in charge of the fees we pay?

You’re ignoring once again the fact your team has been built over 4 years.

We didn’t have both Mount and Mainoo available at the same time.

You’ve performed well because you’ve been able to play consistently your best players. Saliba last time I checked had 100% available mins share. Saka was 90%+ etc. Of course player quality results in missing them more?
 
I disagree with "putting us out of our misery" posts.
I'm Manchester United fan and it's never a misery. My favourite club is not entitled to success. It needs to be deserved and worked hard for. And I'm there for it.
Someimes It's difficult, frustrating and angering to lose or watch the team have bad performance.

But it's always easy to be a fan and supporter.
Believe we'll be on top again.
If ETH doesn't take us there, somebody else will! Sooner or later.

Have faith and stay positive. We're Manchester United and we'll do what we want.
With or without Erik I firmly believe good times are coming soon.
Cheers everyone!
 
Plant0x84 said:
No of course not.
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Then what are you saying when you say "They're not all ETH's either"? Like, that's understood - seldom are all members of a first team squad brought by one/specific manager.

Plant0x84 said:
I think you missed my point. The standards and winning mentality were instilled by SAF and to a lesser extent Gill. When they left the players were let off the hook so to speak, and as we have gone from manager to manager and signed ‘their’ players the squad has diluted and we have lost that experience and discipline from the squad. So now when the writing is on the wall we always start to hear murmurs from the dressing room. That’s to do with the ethos of the club. That’s the challenge for tenHag and INEOS.
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Your statement spoke of a common denominator dating back 10 years - absolving the manager and pointing towards the players. That's not applicable when the squad is not the same or even that similar to the ones previous managers dealt with - and is largely the current manager's.

The players are clearly trying - it was the reason why we managed to put the together the 5 wins going into the Fulham game. I don't know how anyone can seriously argue they've downed tools. But like in any other profession people will lose faith in leadership, if said leadership is ineffective/doesn't produce results

Plant0x84 said:
I have no idea what this means. :lol:
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All good. It is a colloquialism - but I often forget the people on redcafe are usually an older demographic.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Glad you’re on board.

Check how many loans we’ve had to have over his reign:
  • Amrabat - loan
  • Reguilón - loan
  • Weghorst - loan
  • Dubravka - loan
  • Sabitzer - loan
  • Butland - loan
Does this scream dynasty to you? Does this bellow best in class?

Last time… Ten Hag doesn’t write the cheques.

I agree for most clubs it’s sufficient to sign good players but who is in charge of the fees we pay?

You’re ignoring once again the fact your team has been built over 4 years.

We didn’t have both Mount and Mainoo available at the same time.

You’ve performed well because you’ve been able to play consistently your best players. Saliba last time I checked had 100% available mins share. Saka was 90%+ etc. Of course player quality results in missing them more?
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I think we’ll have to agree to disagree.

One thing I will say, though - I admire your loyalty. The main reason I’m here is that Arsenal-Mania becomes toxic the moment there is the slightest blip. You and others have name-checked Edu as one of the catalysts of Arsenal improvement… the man still has haters amongst the Arsenal support. When he won the award for Sporting Director of the Year, most of the naysayers were Gooners.

Patience is short supply all over, so I actually hope ETH does turn it around and pay back the faith that’s been shown in him (hopefully you don’t finish above Arsenal - obviously).
 
Cassidy said:
Its not largely the current managers at all but thats another debate all together.
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How is this not largely his squad?

Hojlund
Antony
Casemiro
Mount
Amrabat
Lisandro
Onana
Malacia
Bayindir
Eriksen
Evans
Mainoo - he promoted him and gave him his debut

No longer here: Reguilon (included him here because he was part of the squad this season. Didn't include the likes of Weghorst or Sabitzer etc)

Cassidy said:
Point is the players, squad quality and balance have been a major issues over the past 10 years. Despite the players not being the same as 10 years ago.

We don’t actually have a squad capable of sustaining the injuries we have had this season and being much higher than 6th either. 5th at a push and 4th with an exceptional manager at best
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This is a point you're making now. Not the point I contested when you interjected. I disagree with the assessment in your last paragraph as well, but that's dragging the conversation elsewhere.

BenitoSTARR said:
Is it? Name the Ten Hag players.
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Read above
 
UnitedSofa said:
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This is good example. The cowardice of our CB to play high line is huge issue here.

Ten Hag is persistent to play high line and high press despite not having the profile this season and I don’t disagree with it because this will give better pictures to the board that we need to sell them and buy new players who can and wants to play high line and high press.
 
That Jamie Carragher analysis is long overdo. The gaps in midfield are fecking horrific.

I mentioned in the match day thread the other day that Mainoo had the ball near the half way line, there were 5 Fulham players near him and not a single united player in shot. What kind of tactics are these? It's happened for long enough now for it not to be an isolated incident.

I'm baffled at anyone who thinks ETH is the man for the job. These tactics are suicidal and there's no surprise that every team dominated us.

Also the fact they mentioned that it could be causing injuries has been one of my queries all season. It can't just be bad luck, the style of play is causing some of these injuries
 
Licha-Vidic said:
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Like I've said previously, he needs to heavily change the approach and not cede control and possession to any team we face. That's the single biggest issue.

He also has Onana and Mainoo now, compared to last year. They are two players who significantly improve us in possession, the build-up phase, and could help exert control over our opponents. The squad is still lacking a lot, and last season was even worse, so I could accept him being pragmatic then, but it really should be getting better by now. Even if we were 5th or 6th right now, with the same points tally, but better performances where we are in control of our games, I don't think the situation would be as melancholic as it is now.

Contrary to popular opinion, I don't think he's a lost cause, but it really boggles the mind why he's setting us up this way.
 
Telsim said:
It's really quite easy.

My number one expectation of this manager was the beginnings of a better, proactive, attacking football, befitting of the stature of an elite club, even if we finished 5th this season. Instead, I'm watching the worst football I have ever laid eyes on and being clapped by fodder. And we are not doing better than under Ole.

Sack. Simple as.
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You can only say "we've had injures" for so long.

Either the players still don't understand what they are supposed to be doing in this system or the system just fundamentally doesn't work in the premier league.

We have so many players not putting in the running which makes me think either they
VP89 said:
Ole got dumped out by Leicester and Wolves in cups. Your premise for arguing Ten Hag having favourable runs (vs Brighton and Newcastle in the semi and final, which isn't easy), only holds true if you reckon Ole can take them too.

Ole had form for embarrassing cup exits too, so your point is just nonsense.

Try better next time.
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Rojofiam said:
Like I've said previously, he needs to heavily change the approach and not cede control and possession to any team we face. That's the single biggest issue.

He also has Onana and Mainoo now, compared to last year. They are two players who significantly improve us in possession, the build-up phase, and could help exert control over our opponents. The squad is still lacking a lot, and last season was even worse, so I could accept him being pragmatic then, but it really should be getting better by now. Even if we were 5th or 6th right now, with the same points tally, but better performances where we are in control of our games, I don't think the situation would be as melancholic as it is now.

Contrary to popular opinion, I don't think he's a lost cause, but it really boggles the mind why he's setting us up this way.
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He won't play Onana as a sweeper again any time soon. He does not have the players for it. All of our fit defenders are not good enough with the ball in possession and routinely misplace simple passes. With Onana outside the penalty area that would look bobbins
 
TsuWave said:
Then what are you saying when you say "They're not all ETH's either"? Like, that's understood - seldom are all members of a first team squad brought by one/specific manager.
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We’ve already heard rumours of players not liking Erik’s style, not having him, not respecting him etc. I’d say that the players putting in the most effort consistently are Martinez, Antony, Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund and Bruno. They are tenHags signings, his promoted youth players and his captain. The players who get stick for not trying are the ones who have been here the longest - Rashford, Martial, Shaw etc. Why would that be?

TsuWave said:
Your statement spoke of a common denominator dating back 10 years - absolving the manager and pointing towards the players. That's not applicable when the squad is not the same or even that similar to the ones previous managers dealt with - and is largely the current manager's.
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I spoke of a culture at the club. It doesn’t matter how long a player has been at the club if the ethos isn’t right, and clearly for many years now our club culture has been poor.
TsuWave said:
The players are clearly trying - it was the reason why we managed to put the together the 5 wins going into the Fulham game. I don't know how anyone can seriously argue they've downed tools. But like in any other profession people will lose faith in leadership, if said leadership is ineffective/doesn't produce results
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I don’t doubt they are trying, I don’t believe they have ‘downed tools’ and I don’t think I said that. I do believe that a good proportion of this squad simply isn’t good enough to be challenging for top honours.
 
The gaping hole in midfield is not as simple as it seems. ETH and his coach team definitely knew it from game to game, but he insisted playing like that. The hole is so obvious over there every time when we had unexpected turnovers of balls. The question becomes why the unexpected ball turnovers happen so often. Technical ability, space occupying, and passing with mutual understanding are critical across the team. With the players we have, how to deliver the messages and approaches not so complicated to understand across the team are important. Maybe ETH needs more time to get the players fully understood what to do in so many different scenarios fanned out in any real game. But as we saw already, the reality is that our players run forward and backward so often due to the high turnover of ball. It is probably the most reasonable explanation that we had so many injuries with the facts that we played so many games last season.
 
Acquire Me said:
Obviously not, but the club has been run like a commercial club. Not a proper football club. Sir Jim said that if United got a proper footballing setup, everyone will thrive and the commercial side will follow as a consequence.

I think most of us will agree with him.

I’d love to see Erik ten Hag get a fighting chance.
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Nah has already shown his personality is not big enough to manage this club. Jumped on the out train after Anfield annihilation and not got off. Hopefully INEOS have got a shortlist on who they want to take over in the summer.
 
The-Mezzala said:
Signing Antony and Onanna is a sackable offence on its own. Add the dross we see on the pitch. Cant really see how anyone can still think he is the answer
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Antony 100%, but Onana is playing better and will be the no. 1 keeper even under a new manager.
 
Plant0x84 said:
We’ve already heard rumours of players not liking Erik’s style, not having him, not respecting him etc. I’d say that the players putting in the most effort consistently are Martinez, Antony, Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund and Bruno. They are tenHags signings, his promoted youth players and his captain. The players who get stick for not trying are the ones who have been here the longest - Rashford, Martial, Shaw etc. Why would that be?
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This is steering the conversation to rumours and confirmation biases, and you've already conceded that all members of a squad don't need to be a specific manager's signings before said manager can be evaluated. "Getting stick" from a fanbase is hardly the be all end all of metrics. I mean, Rashford carried this team last year. A substantial amount of people will tell you we're better with Shaw than without him. Martial has been injured so often some even forget he's still here - it would be an extreme reach to make him culpable for any of Ten Hag's current shortcomings.

We've established the current squad isn't even that similar to the one Ole had. I think we can also agree the players are trying - they've strung wins together, some of them last gasp ones. So who are the "snowflakes that INEOS needs to shake up" before being able to look at the manager?

Plant0x84 said:
I spoke of a culture at the club. It doesn’t matter how long a player has been at the club if the ethos isn’t right, and clearly for many years now our club culture has been poor.
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It's not as if Ten Hag has only been here for 3 months. He has spoken repeatedly about instilling an ethos/culture for the squad - it comes directly from him. He has made big disciplinary decisions and retained the support of the club, fans and reportedly the players. The same players which in your last paragraph you said you don't doubt are trying. Are you saying Ten Hag has failed or is incapable of instilling the type of culture he often references?

I've posted posts of you attributing credit to Ten Hag - in this very same thread - after wins - with these same players. So why isn't Ten Hag responsible for the losses and the overall underperformance of our season?

Plant0x84 said:
I don’t doubt they are trying, I don’t believe they have ‘downed tools’ and I don’t think I said that. I do believe that a good proportion of this squad simply isn’t good enough to be challenging for top honours.
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But the expectations on Ten Hag currently isn't even to challenge for top honours though, yet he's still failing.
 
DownRiver said:
I am Ten Hag out, but the below video has made be rethink:

https://x.com/statmansticks/status/1762247427979870560?s=46&t=-CWsO3kA7ZeCOTYwtcOsQg

All I can think about is how every player in that team is so comfortable passing the ball. I can think of Martinez and Mainoo who have that ability.

I actually fell sorry for Ten Hag after that! Our recruitment is so poor, our players are so poor in ability.
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He made Bruno the captain. Bruno treats the ball like a time bomb. You reap what you sow.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Moyes, Mourinho, LVG, Carrick, McKenna, Solskjaer, Rangnick and ETH can’t all be ‘shit managers’ and indeed have proven so at other clubs.
So the common factor here is Manchester United.
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The same logic could be applied to all the players we've signed in the last 10 years. There's no excuse to being outplayed and out thought by practically every team in the league, including the relegation fodder. I don't see a team that's not trying but I see a team that is being exploited by the same type of tactics very often, no matter who we play in or team or what type of players they are.

If you gave Klopp this team then it would be night and day, he's got a bunch of kids playing well during an injury crisis, because he's a top class coach and a very good man manager. There is really no excuse.
 
Ten Hag took over an Ajax team that missed out on the Dutch title by 1 point. One fecking point. He didn't "transform" anything.
 
Rojofiam said:
Like I've said previously, he needs to heavily change the approach and not cede control and possession to any team we face. That's the single biggest issue.

He also has Onana and Mainoo now, compared to last year. They are two players who significantly improve us in possession, the build-up phase, and could help exert control over our opponents. The squad is still lacking a lot, and last season was even worse, so I could accept him being pragmatic then, but it really should be getting better by now. Even if we were 5th or 6th right now, with the same points tally, but better performances where we are in control of our games, I don't think the situation would be as melancholic as it is now.

Contrary to popular opinion, I don't think he's a lost cause, but it really boggles the mind why he's setting us up this way.
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The bolded part is why I think he's a lost cause, because I have 0 clue how to believe in a manager who watches how easily the setup is played through by every team in the league and refuses to adjust the shape/tactics/instructions. Which means he's happy with every game being this end to end coin flip, and in that case I can't believe in him further.

I agree with you and thought that Onana and Mainoo coming in would mean far more control in games. I mean feck even if we played last years setup with a double pivot and just those two inserted for DDG and Eriksen we'd be far better off than we are now.
 
DownRiver said:
I am Ten Hag out, but the below video has made be rethink:

https://x.com/statmansticks/status/1762247427979870560?s=46&t=-CWsO3kA7ZeCOTYwtcOsQg

All I can think about is how every player in that team is so comfortable passing the ball. I can think of Martinez and Mainoo who have that ability.

I actually fell sorry for Ten Hag after that! Our recruitment is so poor, our players are so poor in ability.
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That looks the Ajax way. Did his Utrecht side also play like this?
 
Lay said:
That Jamie Carragher analysis is long overdo. The gaps in midfield are fecking horrific.

I mentioned in the match day thread the other day that Mainoo had the ball near the half way line, there were 5 Fulham players near him and not a single united player in shot. What kind of tactics are these? It's happened for long enough now for it not to be an isolated incident.

I'm baffled at anyone who thinks ETH is the man for the job. These tactics are suicidal and there's no surprise that every team dominated us.

Also the fact they mentioned that it could be causing injuries has been one of my queries all season. It can't just be bad luck, the style of play is causing some of these injuries
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These are the tactics of a coach that doesn't value possession, he's trying to shithouse goals with pace in behind and relying on physical traits rather than coaching and engaging the minds of the players.

I said very early on that he doesn't look like a coach that values possession, and was argued with because he didn't have the right midfield etc. Then he came out and confirmed that he's interested in quick transitions. I did some research into Ajax before and during Ten Hag, and realised that it was actually Peter Bosz who laid the foundations of a possession team (he's currently uneaten in Eredivisie with PSV, probably a better coach than ETH). Ten Hag inherited something special there, with a young group of players that belonged at a much higher level, and with a very good recruitment team bringing in even more players that were too good for the league. He was never going to do anything but be successful there.
 
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