Who replaces Ten Hag?

CasaStreets said:

The irony of saying that what you’d do is switch to a double pivot while simultaneously saying you think we can do what the more progressive teams do is wild.

He’s tried to make us more progressive by pressing high and playing a #8 higher than a #6 (to enable the high press) and, in doing so, has shown the players for what they are when playing in the system top teams employ.

I do agree with you that our players are better suited to a double pivot because our pressers up-front can’t do the job and Casemiro & Mainoo don’t cover enough ground to stagger our #6 vs #8, but to claim that reverting to an Ole-style double pivot is fundamentally a more progressive style of football than pressing high is simply not true.

It ensures a lot more boring football sitting back in mid/low block and counter-attacking - same thing that’s kept us just a team fighting for 4th the last 7 years.

And as for your “lost cause” quip, I am far from certain EtH is the right guy, but I am certain these players are the wrong players. We can get on the manager merry-go-round again, or we can get serious and acknowledge none of our starting 11 (bar maybe 2) would get a sniff in the starting 11s of the top 3.

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You have no other option with Casemiro, it has to be either a double pivot or a 3 (which is where he became the player he is/was). Some of the best teams in the world use a midfield 3 - my only hesitation is that Bruno perhaps needs to be further up the pitch to get the best out of him. I'm a big fan of the 343, but there are limitations on what we can do with our squad composition and formation discussions are largely irrelevant anyway, it is the roles and positioning of players that is more important. I was merely responding to what I would do right now, in our current situation - which is essentially taking a step back and trying to regain control of games and stop conceding.

Regarding your last point, I largely agree. The players are an issue, but both issues can be addressed - it just takes a few more years to sort a squad of players.

DJ_21 said:

I think he’d offer us something different from what the others have. Not sure how fond I am of the 3-5-2 formation though, seems like most Italian managers play a back 3 which shows you there defensive first. I don’t see that with his Inter team though, they play really good football. Dominate games. With a weird midfield 3 aswell… not really a DM in his line ups.

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I've been following Simone Inzaghi since he's became manager. He made his bones under Lolito at Lazio. There aren't many places suited to toughen a manager up then Lolito. He's a renowned penny pincher, who'll probably sell his own mother for the right price and had been sentenced to prison for messing in the stock exchange as well. The situation was so dire and so public that Inzaghi was being publicly ridiculed because of it including by the famous parody site the autogol.

At Lazio Inzaghi had learnt to squeeze every ounce of talent there is and to make every euro cent worth its while. In fact Inzaghi's transfers at Lazio were largely made up of loans, free transfers and small fee signings (usually to buy players like Immobile who failed elsewhere) That's a skill who caught Marotta's eye. What happened at Inter with the likes of Darmian, Mkhitaryan and co is no co-incidence. Inzaghi is a renowned scavenger whose known to resurrect players career and built successful sides around rejects. Considering FFP and the fact that we've got a disfunctional side then he's the right type of manager we need.

Thus I can see him adapt his tactics to our needs and our team's strengths.

pocco said:

You have no other option with Casemiro, it has to be either a double pivot or a 3 (which is where he became the player he is/was). Some of the best teams in the world use a midfield 3 - my only hesitation is that Bruno perhaps needs to be further up the pitch to get the best out of him. I'm a big fan of the 343, but there are limitations on what we can do with our squad composition and formation discussions are largely irrelevant anyway, it is the roles and positioning of players that is more important. I was merely responding to what I would do right now, in our current situation - which is essentially taking a step back and trying to regain control of games and stop conceding.

Regarding your last point, I largely agree. The players are an issue, but both issues can be addressed - it just takes a few more years to sort a squad of players.

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If we reduce our pressing and move to a double pivot I agree that’s probably the best thing we could do to improve probability of 4th place finish, and perhaps he should have done that.

But I also don’t think it’s a sackable offense or that absurd for him for to try to recreate the Case-Eriksen-Bruno midfield balance of last season that was excellent (did they go undefeated in the league when starting together?) with Mainoo as the #8.

I think he’s been stubborn to realize/accept Case is not playing at last season’s standard though and our back line has faced too many injuries to boot which exposes the issue even more, so yes ideally he’d have adapted sooner.

CasaStreets said:

The irony of saying that what you’d do is switch to a double pivot while simultaneously saying you think we can do what the more progressive teams do is wild.

He’s tried to make us more progressive by pressing high and playing a #8 higher than a #6 (to enable the high press) and, in doing so, has shown the players for what they are when playing in the system top teams employ.

I do agree with you that our players are better suited to a double pivot because our pressers up-front can’t do the job and Casemiro & Mainoo don’t cover enough ground to stagger our #6 vs #8, but to claim that reverting to an Ole-style double pivot is fundamentally a more progressive style of football than pressing high is simply not true.

It ensures a lot more boring football sitting back in mid/low block and counter-attacking - same thing that’s kept us just a team fighting for 4th the last 7 years.

And as for your “lost cause” quip, I am far from certain EtH is the right guy, but I am certain these players are the wrong players. We can get on the manager merry-go-round again, or we can get serious and acknowledge none of our starting 11 (bar maybe 2) would get a sniff in the starting 11s of the top 3.

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Except he's done it terribly. Which is the entire issue. It's not the "same system top teams employ" it's just a similar starting formation

Valencia Shin Crosses said:

Except he's done it terribly. Which is the entire issue. It's not the "same system top teams employ" it's just a similar starting formation

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It’s obviously not the entire issue. Given that we can all sit here and agree maybe 2 of our players are even of the requisite quality to start for a top 3 team, it’s clear there is in fact a different and much larger issue. Must solve the player issue first.

Klopp is allready lined up. Why he’s leaving Liverpool. On a serious note I’m not sure what top manager would want to manage this club at the moment with the state it’s in. Maybe need to look at De Zebri for two years and start getting the transfers right with Ratcliffe in now. If De Zebri does an excellent job then obviously keep him on. De Zebri is the obvious choice I reckon and would definitely leave Brighton for United. Still though we are at nothing unless we sign a new winger and two center midfielders to play alongside Mainoo and a manager that will change this 4-2-3-1 formation to a 4-3-3 and introduce a high line and high pressing game. Need a replacement for Maguire as well I’d say. He can’t play in a high line.

honirelandboy said:

Klopp is allready lined up. Why he’s leaving Liverpool. On a serious note I’m not sure what top manager would want to manage this club at the moment with the state it’s in. Maybe need to look at De Zebri for two years and start getting the transfers right with Ratcliffe in now. If De Zebri does an excellent job then obviously keep him on. De Zebri is the obvious choice I reckon and would definitely leave Brighton for United.

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Because they wouldn’t be working under the former structure. They’d likely be speaking to Berrada, Ashworth, Brailsford and SJR instead of Arnold, Murtough and The Glazers.

The new group will be much more persuasive as to this being a stable long term project.

honirelandboy said:

I’m not sure what top manager would want to manage this club at the moment with the state it’s in.

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The funny thing is that the club is arguably in the best shape it's been in for a decade. The football side being prioritised under what is practically a new owner. Best in class appointments being made off the pitch.

macheda14 said:

Because they wouldn’t be working under the former structure. They’d likely be speaking to Berrada, Ashworth, Brailsford and SJR instead of Arnold, Murtough and The Glazers.

The new group will be much more persuasive as to this being a stable long term project.

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That’s a really good point and never thought of it that way. Will a top top manager want to take on the challenge though of getting the best young players in which Ratcliffe is hinting at and waiting three of four years for the likes of Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund becoming world class. Id love to see the club getting rid of Rashford and Anthony and Sancho and get new and exciting winger in. Midfield Scott and Casemeiro need to go and replaced by two new world class midfielders. Defence Maguire and Lindelof need to go. The rebuild is going to be huge and if we are going young it’s gonna take a few years.

AFC NimbleThumb said:

I’m of the belief that a manager of Manchester United should not have lost 16 games by late February/early March. Are there extenuating circumstances? Yes but we aren’t only being bested by the likes of Citeh but multiple losses against teams with less resources to begin with & their own absentees. It’s not about it being ‘more important for someone else to try it who just isn’t Ten Hag’, it’s about judging him based on his poor performance.

People compare him to Klopp, Arteta, or even Sir Alex but fail to mention the 10s of well intentioned managers that go into clubs & fail year on year. He won’t be the first promising manager at multiple levels that failed to make a step up.

I’m firmly in the camp that if Ineos are serious about change then they won’t just stop at the squad but the manager who unfortunately hasn’t lived up to expectations. Unlike bygon eras it doesn’t look like Ineos are going to be able to come in & spend this squad away so next season a significant number of the sqaud will be in situ. Are we now to believe this squad should forgoe umpteen transfer windows because EtH refuses to tailor his tactics?

A club that challenged for Top 4 without a football structure? We did it last year. That isn’t me saying we don’t need one, I think it’s imperative to get back to the top table but I would argue it isn’t the lack of football structure that sees us double points back of Aston Villa. Again, the expectations were in the basement. He’s took a sizeable step backwards having bolstered the squad. The trajectory is trending terribly.

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And those losses are a reasonable thing to be concerned about. It does feel like a disproportionate amount of blame is being sent his way but in your defence you’re acknowledging those other factors.

It would be silly to seriously suggest he’s any better than those but I don’t think it’s entirely ridiculous to look at parallels with Klopp and Arteta in terms of how they built their clubs back up with their DOF/technical directors working closely.

I think they’ll give him a chance personally but whatever they do I’ll be behind it.

Absolutely we did it. And who in spite of that managed to get us there?

I think the lack of football structure has made it impossible to compete for a title and has contributed significantly to having a squad that’s not suited to one style with too many odd profiles. The trouble is this “bolstered” squad hasn’t been able to be used in its best form and many of those key signings have been out injured.

Essentially this season has been monumentally shit and bad luck has played a significant role.

Woziak said:

I like what you trying to do and like you I was once a fan but his constant stubbornness and his ability to lose leads and not adapt tactically in game, suggests to me and many more United fans, ETH will always be the Bridesmaid!

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You see my points though @Woziak. We kind of have a manger that fits all of your criteria bar one (top 5 league winner).

I do think he does adapt tactically but there is also only so much one can change when you’re bringing on Forson or Amrabat and have no striker or LB. Your build up and end product is going to take a large hit.

honirelandboy said:

Klopp is allready lined up. Why he’s leaving Liverpool. On a serious note I’m not sure what top manager would want to manage this club at the moment with the state it’s in. Maybe need to look at De Zebri for two years and start getting the transfers right with Ratcliffe in now. If De Zebri does an excellent job then obviously keep him on. De Zebri is the obvious choice I reckon and would definitely leave Brighton for United.

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That's an idea rarely discussed on here because, for most people, we don't have to simply appoint (or sack) managers, we should plan to get married to them. In fairness, this line of thinking could make even Potter more palatable. It will also send a message that we're basically starting from scratch with the intention to raise our ceiling in the mid/long-term.

It's nice talking about progressive football and immediate changes, but the truth of the matter is that the squad is a mess after a series of misjudgements in evaluating targets and existing squad members. Furthermore, two of the key proponents of the "run n' gun" style are on royal contracts that make them unmovable for the next three seasons or so. Money also seems to be scarce, so compromises will have to be made in the beginning. All is not gloomy though, there seems to be a core of promising young players (Garnacho, Mainoo, Hojlund, Dalot, Forson, Diallo, Malacia, Kambwalla etc.) around which you can start a new approach with the help of some existing players and a few hits in the market.

So, get a guy in whose main job will be to do just that. Put this derailed train back on track and create the foundation for the style we want to see on the pitch. As you mentioned, if he (insert name) shows that he can also take the next step forward, fine. If not, thank him for his services and look for an upgrade. Newcastle, for example, are doing something similar under Ashworth's guidance. They have money to spend, and they're on the rise. If you do a survey, the vast majority will tell you that they'll surely win a PL and/or a CL title somewhere down the line. Ask them if they expect Newcastle to achieve all that with Eddie Howe at the helm... they'll not be so sure. And that's OK because Howe is a part of the process. He'll take them as far as he can. In fact, even if Howe and Newcastle part ways at the end of the season, the dynamic, physical and aggressive style he's implemented is a good enough basis for (someone like) Nagelsmann to take over (and i think that this is where the German will go after the Euros). Maybe we should start thinking about it in similar terms.

CasaStreets said:

It’s obviously not the entire issue. Given that we can all sit here and agree maybe 2 of our players are even of the requisite quality to start for a top 3 team, it’s clear there is in fact a different and much larger issue. Must solve the player issue first.

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You can do 2 things at once it’s silly to think otherwise

So Barca, Bayern, Liverpool, Chelsea and United looking for a new manager. Wonder who we get and do we miss out on some of the names by not being quick enough. There are already rumours about Alonso to Bayern which I'm fine with, he wasn't coming to United and hopefully will join Bayern instead of Liverpool. Then there's Tuchel who's leaving Bayern and won't be joining Chelsea so we got a chance to get him. Nagelsmann, Amorim, de Zerbi, Potter... Will be interesting.

Valencia Shin Crosses said:

You can do 2 things at once it’s silly to think otherwise

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We seem to struggle doing one thing at once.

Valencia Shin Crosses said:

You can do 2 things at once it’s silly to think otherwise

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Absolutely, but not quite so silly as to think you can accurately gauge the manager when he’s equipped with this set of players and injury list.

Need I remind you we finished 6th 3 of the last 7 seasons? I’ll say it again: we are a squad equipped to challenge for 4th. It’s our recruiting level and these players’ level.

Anyone who thinks this is primarily the manager and not 80-90% recruitment and players is willfully forgetful of the last few seasons.

macheda14 said:

Because they wouldn’t be working under the former structure. They’d likely be speaking to Berrada, Ashworth, Brailsford and SJR instead of Arnold, Murtough and The Glazers.

The new group will be much more persuasive as to this being a stable long term project.

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Proven by Berrada coming here.

Despite our performances for a decade, we’re still a huge draw. And Ratcliffe (and the people he picks to help) will help show the plan to prospective parties.

Its not an overnight thing but it’ll get there.

CasaStreets said:

Absolutely, but not quite so silly as to think you can accurately gauge the manager when he’s equipped with this set of players and injury list.

Need I remind you we finished 6th 3 of the last 7 seasons? I’ll say it again: we are a squad equipped to challenge for 4th. It’s our recruiting level and these players’ level.

Anyone who thinks this is primarily the manager and not 80-90% recruitment and players is willfully forgetful of the last few seasons.

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I think it’s quite easy to judge a manager based on how tactically sound and adaptive he is, his in game management, and overall level of coaching applied to said tactics. Just because it’s Lindelof at LB right now instead of Shaw doesn’t change that, much like when Shaw and Martinez were still fit our games were still basketball matches. And I don’t think just hand waving away all of the Ten Hag preferred players as well as everyone we’ve kept and built around should just absolve him of any sort of blame. That’s stupid, just like it’s stupid to persist a third season with a manager that isn’t good enough (I mean by your logic it would have to be 4 seasons since I doubt we get a squad overhaul big enough done in one summer, so you can’t blame him for next year either apparently )

pocco said:

Most wins yet he's lost nearly half our games in all competitions this season. It's a pointless stat. Many of us knew results would catch up with the way we were actually playing. If you're right and 6th place is enough then we might as well give up now, because INEOS are worse than the Glazers in that case. I reckon you're wrong though, thankfully.

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Do you think he'll be sacked after the last game and we immediately appoint the née person for pre season and transfer decisions?

Or do we appoint someone two weeks before our first game and say some funds may be available for transfers in January, but as it's not a good window we won't make ant big decisions before June 2025 ?

Does the new manager get selected soon, but not announced, and chats about transfers off the record and pops up in May ?

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Too much smoke for there not to be a fire, so many reports the last few days (even before City loss) about replacing EtH

lilcurt said:

The player he has identified for signing have been nowhere near good enough on the whole. The fees involved aren't really down to him though.

I think ETH, massively underestimates the speed and physicality of the league. Not many managers who come from the Dutch league are successful here and I think that is why.

As for who could replace him? That is the issue isn't it. There isn't an exceptional candidate out there, especially when you consider other teams in the market for a new manager. If we seriously considering going Potter I think you stick with ETH and see how he starts next season.

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J. Klopp is making himself available at the end if the season. . Surely that's not a coincidence.

It doesnt matter who comes in as manager all the while the same group of players who have seen off Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ole, Rangnick and now it seems Ten Hag remain, and it is a hard core of senior players who have played under either all or most of these managers; Rashford, Martial, Maguire, Shaw, Lindelof, Dalot and Wan Bissaka; all have failed successive managers though they would have us believe its the managers who have failed them! I would add Bruno to the list but he does at least show some passion.

glazed said:

I think we can all agree that ETH is mediocre at transfers and should have limited input into that in future. But the club is even worse so that needs to be fixed too.

Does that mean he is a bad coach? Not necessarily.

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Are you a diplomat? Do you take the heat out of arguments in work and socially ?

Woziak said:

Like I said Sir Jim is not waiting when he’s already gone on record for saying he’s in a hurry, he’s 71 he does not have that time to afford a young upcoming manager so your opinions although valid are completely wide of the mark because we are not recruiting a Carrick or McKenna to rebuild United or even the Girona manager ?

Just look at his track record at Nice, he is not putting Berada, Ashworth, Wilcox and Dougie Freedman to have a young novice manager now is he ?

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My opinion isn't wide of the mark at all, because you're implying that a "novice" manager will take more time to rebuild us into an elite team, than I presume an Ancelotti/Zidane/etc. would in your opinion, but there's nothing that suggests that.

There's a good chance they will in fact appoint a young, upcoming, but relatively unproven guy, if ETH gets the sack at the end of the season.

Just like how they appointed Farioli at Nice. De Zerbi / Amorim / etc. would be similar to that, young coach on the up looking to take on a bigger job.

Most of the big names aren't available or not rebuilders either way, so I don't see who you'd want to get that's well known, proven and also a good rebuilder.

Also, everything they've done / said so far, I think they want the club to be in a situation where the manager isn't that important, like at Brighton, for example, and whoever it is they appoint will have all the support in the world around them.

UnitedSofa said:

Too much smoke for there not to be a fire, so many reports the last few days (even before City loss) about replacing EtH

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Could be, and likely is, mere speculation as the fabled 'United In Crisis' articles do the rounds.

I'd be concerned if actual.

de Zerbi has won five of his last twenty-one league matches and, to date, not won a major honour anywhere. He's more underwhelming than EtH when he signed up.

Roberto De Zerbi would be a disaster, he's done absolutely nothing. Sitting in mid table and took some awful beatings this year. Look at Graham Potter and his big move up, there are levels. No obvious candidates, which is a shame.

Morpheus 7 said:

Roberto De Zerbi would be a disaster, he's done absolutely nothing. Sitting in mid table and took some awful beatings this year. Look at Graham Potter and his big move up, there are levels. No obvious candidates, which is a shame.

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Didn't they lose a ton of players in the summer and then had an injury crisis at the back?

Stig said:

J. Klopp is making himself available at the end if the season. . Surely that's not a coincidence.

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Poaching Berrada from City, Ashworth from Newcastle, maybe Klopp from Liverpool… Saka from Arsenal afterward?

Valencia Shin Crosses said:

I think it’s quite easy to judge a manager based on how tactically sound and adaptive he is, his in game management, and overall level of coaching applied to said tactics. Just because it’s Lindelof at LB right now instead of Shaw doesn’t change that, much like when Shaw and Martinez were still fit our games were still basketball matches. And I don’t think just hand waving away all of the Ten Hag preferred players as well as everyone we’ve kept and built around should just absolve him of any sort of blame. That’s stupid, just like it’s stupid to persist a third season with a manager that isn’t good enough (I mean by your logic it would have to be 4 seasons since I doubt we get a squad overhaul big enough done in one summer, so you can’t blame him for next year either apparently )

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But by your logic, the players don't matter because the manager should be able to imbue them with perfect tactical awareness that will always triumph over their fundamental flaws as footballers. Shaw injured? Lindelof should be able to cover and get forward just as well. Martinez out? Maguire should be able to pass out from the back. Hojlund out? Rashford should be able to lead the press just as well. Etc...

But really, I take your point that at some point EtH's results must catch up to him - he can't have an endless leash. But I think this season has been absurd in the amount of injuries to key players. If we were to keep him, I think it has to be with the understanding that he has until the end of his contract (which is next summer) and that if things don't turn around by February then he won't be offered an extension.

On top of that, player recruitment this summer needs to be orchestrated by the club, not EtH. I actually think that's a good thing for EtH, since his high press/energy style is actually aligned with where I'd suspect the club's new leadership will want to go given its increasing prominence at the elite level - I could be wrong on that though.

brontelicious said:

Could be, and likely is, mere speculation as the fabled 'United In Crisis' articles do the rounds.

I'd be concerned if actual.

de Zerbi has won five of his last twenty-one league matches and, to date, not won a major honour anywhere. He's more underwhelming than EtH when he signed up.

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Morpheus 7 said:

Roberto De Zerbi would be a disaster, he's done absolutely nothing. Sitting in mid table and took some awful beatings this year. Look at Graham Potter and his big move up, there are levels. No obvious candidates, which is a shame.

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I wouldn’t be overly excited by De Zerbi myself, especially after the last several months. Seems void of getting out the rutt he’s in (sounds familiar?)

I’d give Ole another go if there were no risk, see what he can do under a proper structure, admittedly an Ole fanboy, but unfortunately too much at stake to go another round.

Maybe Amorim would be better suited?

I really don't think De Zerbi is the guy. A lot of hype over I'm not sure what exactly.

mu4c_20le said:

Didn't they lose a ton of players in the summer and then had an injury crisis at the back?

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Yes. We think we've got it rough when we get injuries, but some of their players don't belong in the PL in my opinion. They have a young but promising attack, though they seem to pick up injuries often, but the rest is a lot weaker than it was previously.

Morpheus 7 said:

Roberto De Zerbi would be a disaster, he's done absolutely nothing. Sitting in mid table and took some awful beatings this year. Look at Graham Potter and his big move up, there are levels. No obvious candidates, which is a shame.

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Alonso being the obvious candidate but seemingly he’s staying at Bayer for another season and then will look at one of Madrid, Pool or Munich as his next destination. Interesting that at least 2/3 of those will be looking for a new manager this summer.

Rojofiam said:

My opinion isn't wide of the mark at all, because you're implying that a "novice" manager will take more time to rebuild us into an elite team, than I presume an Ancelotti/Zidane/etc. would in your opinion, but there's nothing that suggests that.

There's a good chance they will in fact appoint a young, upcoming, but relatively unproven guy, if ETH gets the sack at the end of the season.

Just like how they appointed Farioli at Nice. De Zerbi / Amorim / etc. would be similar to that, young coach on the up looking to take on a bigger job.

Most of the big names aren't available or not rebuilders either way, so I don't see who you'd want to get that's well known, proven and also a good rebuilder.

Also, everything they've done / said so far, I think they want the club to be in a situation where the manager isn't that important, like at Brighton, for example, and whoever it is they appoint will have all the support in the world around them.

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Ineos failed categorically at nice the teams on the slide and might finish lower than us, sir Jim says he’s learnt from his mistakes at Nice let’s see ?

So far ETH record of delivering CL football is more impressive than Ineos, so let’s hope he’s not naive enough to put a rookie in plus I get the impression Omar Berada only agreed if he’s running the club!

Ish said:

Alonso being the obvious candidate but seemingly he’s staying at Bayer for another season and then will look at one of Madrid, Pool or Munich as his next destination. Interesting that at least 2/3 of those will be looking for a new manager this summer.

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Sky Sports News were saying he's in talks with Bayern today and that the talks are progressing well. Think he'll be there in the summer, if not then Liverpool. I reckon Liverpool will look at De Zerbi, Amorim or Nagelsmann, Chelsea will look at De Zerbi and Inzaghi, based on reports recently.

pocco said:

Yes. We think we've got it rough when we get injuries, but some of their players don't belong in the PL in my opinion. They have a young but promising attack, though they seem to pick up injuries often, but the rest is a lot weaker than it was previously.

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"they're in midtable" is the criticism aimed at him. Look at who's around them....they're competing against the likes of Newcastle and Chelsea with their billion pound expenditures, after losing their goalkeeper and entire midfield, and playing kids in their first PL year like Baleba and Adingra. De Zerbi may not be the one for us, but he's still doing a hell of a job with what he's got.

Morpheus 7 said:

Roberto De Zerbi would be a disaster, he's done absolutely nothing. Sitting in mid table and took some awful beatings this year. Look at Graham Potter and his big move up, there are levels. No obvious candidates, which is a shame.

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Sometimes you do have to look beyond results when assessing managers at smaller teams. There was one a time where Jurgen Klopp got Mainz relegated and then couldn't get them promoted again. He was still looked on favorably due to the football and principles he adopted and Dortmund saw the talent he had.

I'm not saying it will be the case with De Zerbi, but it also wouldn't shock me if he ended up at another big club and did very well with better players carrying out his gameplan.

Woziak said:

Ineos failed categorically at nice the teams on the slide and might finish lower than us, sir Jim says he’s learnt from his mistakes at Nice let’s see ?

So far ETH record of delivering CL football is more impressive than Ineos, so let’s hope he’s not naive enough to put a rookie in plus I get the impression Omar Berada only agreed if he’s running the club!

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Of course you jump at the opportunity to slander Nice as soon as they go on a bad run

This is once again a flawed way of thinking on your part, what the hell is the owner supposed to do? Ratcliffe hired a young sporting director in Ghisolfi, who then hired Farioli, and they started off very well, good football, good results, as well as signing decent talents.

Ratcliffe isn't the manager, no owner can make 100% foolproof appointments, and no owner can do anything to avoid ever having a bad run of form, even if they get every appointment right and invest money into the club.

Also no one's ever said that he got it right at Nice, but they're undeniably much better run than when Ineos bought them in 2019, as they've also admitted to having made many mistakes, but that they also learned from it. These are their own words.

mu4c_20le said:

"they're in midtable" is the criticism aimed at him. Look at who's around them....they're competing against the likes of Newcastle and Chelsea with their billion pound expenditures, after losing their goalkeeper and entire midfield, and playing kids in their first PL year like Baleba and Adingra. De Zerbi may not be the one for us, but he's still doing a hell of a job with what he's got.

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I agree. Losing Mitoma is a huge blow to their run in now too.

Rojofiam said:

Of course you jump at the opportunity to slander Nice as soon as they go on a bad run

This is once again a flawed way of thinking on your part, what the hell is the owner supposed to do? Ratcliffe hired a young sporting director in Ghisolfi, who then hired Farioli, and they started off very well, good football, good results, as well as signing decent talents.

Ratcliffe isn't the manager, no owner can make the 100% foolproof appointments, and no owner can do anything to avoid ever having a bad run of form, even if they get every appointment right and invest money into the club.

Also no one's ever said that he got it right at Nice, but they're undeniably much better run than when Ineos bought them in 2019, as they've also admitted to having made many mistakes, but they also learned from it. These are their own words.

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I've said this from day one, nobody who takes over the club will get it right from the get go. They'll make mistakes. What will set them apart is how well they recognise these and learn. Ashworth and Berrada could be mistakes, who knows? But I'd be more surprised if they got every appointment right from the start.

The Glazers downfall was their inability to learn these mistakes. We've invested a hell of a lot of money but they never implemented a proper structure, and instead let a novice in Woodward run the show. That was their downfall. They could have done everything INEOS are now doing.

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