F1 2024 Season

dinostar77

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redshaw said:
Max will want to be tested and racing as well, maybe he could have a stronger team mate next year.

Perhaps more neutral regs are needed. Teams still very puzzled how to design the car, difficult setup, puzzling narrow windows of performance, cars still bouncing along. Or it's up to them to understand and we benefit in the long run from less dirty air.

It's a team sport and you can only admire the Red Bull team and Max is clearly in the top bracket of drivers executing the laps. It's tempting to want a lead driver and not take points away. Hamilton Rosberg was pretty good, as was Vettel Webber. Max needs a higher benchmark.

Not sure what 2026 brings and Red Bull making their own engine. Red Bull suffered a lot with poor Renault and Honda power and reliability, great chassis just no power. As a team they will want to clean up now and not help others.
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I'd be all for a reduction in ground effect, simplifying the cars and putting the emphasis back on the drivers to make the difference. But F1 is a oxymoron. We get told that what F1 does has to be relivant to road cars i.e. technology cascading down the stack. However F1 still have a ban on active suspension which is used by alot of road cars. The use of active suspension would fix the issue that some teams have with getting the rear of the car to push down enough to create enough traction. Cars wouldnt have to be run so stiff so drivers wouldnt have their spines and teeth rattled around.

We have the stupid artifical cliffs for the tyres, whereas if they just said you must run all 3 compounds in a race weekend and the tyres were constructed to last the duration of the race, drivers could go flat out all the time (like they do in motogp). Knockon effect being they put the car under more strain and reduce reliability.

Lets not forget, ground effect was brought in to counter the wake from the rear of the car. However the amount of wake produced by these cars has been inceasing season by season again. The uncontrolled wake from the tyres being a major culprit.

The racing could easily be improved, but it wont happen. So the only hope for next season is RedBull putting in someone more competative in the other seat. Maybe this RedBull civil war will end up with a f*** you from horner to Jos, helmet and max, and he will put alonso in the other seat.

How box office would next season be with max v fernando in a RedBull and Hamilton v Leclerc in a ferrari? Even if Redbull zoom off into the distance it would be nip and tuck between max and fernando race after race. The pressure in the garage would be intense.
 

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United Hobbit said:
When asked about Max he almost used the no one is bigger than the club line, and dodged a question about whether there's anyone tension between them. It was the no one is bigger than the club line that stood out for me
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There does seem to be a struggle between the people running the team (Horner, the owners, maybe Newey) and the Dutch group (Max, Jos, Marko). The owners have taken a lot of flak to keep Horner in charge while the other 3 seem quite willing to stir up trouble privately and back each other publicly.

Ultimately everyone at that team has come across terribly. It seems to me that Jos and Marko have taken the chance offered by the accusation to try and get rid of Horner at the expense of the team and accuser (I doubt whoever leaked that info gave a damn about her). Both seem like scum frankly. Meanwhile Horner and the owners just want to keep control.
 

mitChley

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Tyrion said:
There does seem to be a struggle between the people running the team (Horner, the owners, maybe Newey) and the Dutch group (Max, Jos, Marko). The owners have taken a lot of flak to keep Horner in charge while the other 3 seem quite willing to stir up trouble privately and back each other publicly.

Ultimately everyone at that team has come across terribly. It seems to me that Jos and Marko have taken the chance offered by the accusation to try and get rid of Horner at the expense of the team and accuser (I doubt whoever leaked that info gave a damn about her). Both seem like scum frankly. Meanwhile Horner and the owners just want to keep control.
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What has Max done to stir up trouble?
 

hp88

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dinostar77 said:
Seriously wonder if Newey will walk if Horner gets the boot.
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Yeah I reckon he walks at the end of the year, he comes across as a guy who’s there purely for the racing and doesn’t want to get involved with the politics, Ferrari sign him up….
 

Balljy

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dinostar77 said:
Seriously wonder if Newey will walk if Horner gets the boot.
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I reckon there could be a good reason for the Verstappen rumours that he might go elsewhere, and that's most likely linked to Newey if he's the racer he seems to be.
 

hobbers

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Imagine if Mercedes nail another engine reg change, and get Newey to do the aero, and get Max in the seat.

Scary.
 

laughtersassassin

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hobbers said:
Imagine if Mercedes nail another engine reg change, and get Newey to do the aero, and get Max in the seat.

Scary.
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I think the aim for Max Newey Wache and Co will be to atleast try stick these regs out at Red Bull.

No point tuning a good thing unless things are completely toxic and unsustainable within Red Bull.

But jumping ship for Merc in 2026 could possibly be quite a good career move.

Obviously it's anyone's guess who will nail the new regs but if I was betting on it I don't think Red Bull will build a competitive engine at the first time of asking.

Ferrari or Merc are my early favourites for 2026.
 

mitChley

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hobbers said:
McLaren should dump Zak and hire him.
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Different jobs aren't they? Brown is CEO and more commercial driven, versus Horner is a Technical Director? Might be wrong on that and can't be bothered to go check.

If Horner goes I think he'll be out the sport for a few years, before a team hire him once the buzz has dropped off.
 

dinostar77

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laughtersassassin said:
I think the aim for Max Newey Wache and Co will be to atleast try stick these regs out at Red Bull.

No point tuning a good thing unless things are completely toxic and unsustainable within Red Bull.

But jumping ship for Merc in 2026 could possibly be quite a good career move.

Obviously it's anyone's guess who will nail the new regs but if I was betting on it I don't think Red Bull will build a competitive engine at the first time of asking.

Ferrari or Merc are my early favourites for 2026.
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Surely the allure of ferrari will be too strong to turn down if newey were to jump ship. Apart from kimi's lucky championship win, mainly due to mclaren drivers squabbling and throwing it away, no-one has delivered a championship winning ferrari since rory bryne with schmacher. Thats now 20 years ago.

It would be the crowning achievement of neweys career.
 

Mike Smalling

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I haven’t really followed along, but is this still about the misconduct allegations, or is something else going on?
 

laughtersassassin

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dinostar77 said:
Surely the allure of ferrari will be too strong to turn down if newey were to jump ship. Apart from kimi's lucky championship win, mainly due to mclaren drivers squabbling and throwing it away, no-one has delivered a championship winning ferrari since rory bryne with schmacher. Thats now 20 years ago.

It would be the crowning achievement of neweys career.
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Probably depends on a lot of external factors. Is he bothered at this age to move to Italy? Language barrier might be an issue etc etc.

I'd day if he was leaving Red Bull it's 50/50 on wether he joins Merc or Ferrari.

Mercs the easy choice as it has no impact on his current life. Ferrari is the choice with the better storyline attached to it.

In regard to Max I'm kind of expecting Marko to quit towards the end of the 2025 season which will allow Max to leave his contract with Red Bull and join Merc. Just now there has been reports that their engine for 2026 won't be good enough to compete. Who knows if that rumour is true but it wouldn't be surprising.
 

dinostar77

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laughtersassassin said:
Probably depends on a lot of external factors. Is he bothered at this age to move to Italy? Language barrier might be an issue etc etc.

I'd day if he was leaving Red Bull it's 50/50 on wether he joins Merc or Ferrari.

Mercs the easy choice as it has no impact on his current life. Ferrari is the choice with the better storyline attached to it.

In regard to Max I'm kind of expecting Marko to quit towards the end of the 2025 season which will allow Max to leave his contract with Red Bull and join Merc. Just now there has been reports that their engine for 2026 won't be good enough to compete. Who knows if that rumour is true but it wouldn't be surprising.
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Yes external factors would play a part. I thought ferrari offered newey his own offices and design team in UK so he wouldnt need to move to marinello during their offer to him before he re-signed for RedBull.

Personally i always saw ferrari as max's next move. See if he could do what no-one has done since schmacher i.e. bring consistant success to ferrari.

Also wonder how much horner influenced and blocked the Porsche / Redbull partnership. Maiterstiz wanted that partnership to happen as did Helmet Marko. Horner wasnt happy with Porsche taking 51% control. Maybe it all stems from that. You'd defintely fancy RB to continue to dominate 2026 onwards if Porsche were producing the powertrain.
 

dinostar77

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Mike Smalling said:
I haven’t really followed along, but is this still about the misconduct allegations, or is something else going on?
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According to information from F1-Insider, Horner would be sacked after all and before the Australian Grand Prix.

Several reasons are given by the German medium as to why Horner will now be sacked after all. For instance, influential women's rights activists are said to have called on the US market to boycott Red Bull. This market is very important for the energy drink. Furthermore, the Thai owners are said to fear that the woman in question will take legal action and the internal investigation will come to light.

The main reason for dismissing Horner now anyway would be because the Irish rock band U2 is getting involved. This is because the brother of the woman at issue in the investigation is the brother-in-law of guitarist 'The Edge'. The band reportedly wants to release a song called: 'Don't be Horny, Be a Christian'. The band's pressure with this with their mega influence would have persuaded the Thai owner of Red Bull to fire Horner after all.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/264375/horner-may-be-fired-from-red-bull-racing-after-all.html
 

Mike Smalling

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dinostar77 said:
According to information from F1-Insider, Horner would be sacked after all and before the Australian Grand Prix.

Several reasons are given by the German medium as to why Horner will now be sacked after all. For instance, influential women's rights activists are said to have called on the US market to boycott Red Bull. This market is very important for the energy drink. Furthermore, the Thai owners are said to fear that the woman in question will take legal action and the internal investigation will come to light.

The main reason for dismissing Horner now anyway would be because the Irish rock band U2 is getting involved. This is because the brother of the woman at issue in the investigation is the brother-in-law of guitarist 'The Edge'. The band reportedly wants to release a song called: 'Don't be Horny, Be a Christian'. The band's pressure with this with their mega influence would have persuaded the Thai owner of Red Bull to fire Horner after all.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/264375/horner-may-be-fired-from-red-bull-racing-after-all.html
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There’s a Bono joke here somewhere, but I’m too lazy to come up with it.
 

hobbers

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The end result might be right but please tell me no one is stupid enough to think it'll be because of non-existent boycotts or unwritten U2 songs.
 

United Hobbit

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Someone very powerful is pulling strings here

Is it a Christian or Helmut scenario where only one will be kept due to the different "sides" backing them

I'm not keen on the guy, but he sure as hell knows how to run a successful team, and if found to not be guilty of anything? Does he deserve to lose his job?

A lot of the messages were dodgy and if he was sacked because of it, fair enough but he was cleared so it feels like he's now going due to a power play which doesn't feel right

It'll be very interesting to see what Adrian Newey does - I'd imagine he's on a very very good salary
 
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hobbers

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United Hobbit said:
Someone very powerful is pulling strings here

Is it a Christian or Helmut scenario where only one will be kept due to the different "sides" backing them

I'm not keen on the guy, but he sure as hell knows how to run a successful team, and if found to not be guilty of anything? Does he deserve to lose his job?

A lot of the messages were dodgy and if he was sacked because of it, fair enough but he was cleared so it feels like he's now going due to a power play which doesn't feel right
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Red Bull can stop employing Horner whenever they want. He's not like Toto, he's still just an employee.

But because he's been through arbitration with a top QC it basically means they now have no grounds to sack him. If they want him to leave they'll have to get the Thais on side and pay off his contract.
 

hobbers

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United Hobbit said:
I'm still convinced Max will be in Lewis' vacant seat in 2025
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He'd have to be absolutely deranged to take that seat in 2025. Literally giving away a world championship for no benefit.

More likely Horner is edged out the door at some point during the season and Max plots to leave in 2026 if the engine isnt looking good.
 

Rams

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United Hobbit said:
Someone very powerful is pulling strings here

Is it a Christian or Helmut scenario where only one will be kept due to the different "sides" backing them

I'm not keen on the guy, but he sure as hell knows how to run a successful team, and if found to not be guilty of anything? Does he deserve to lose his job?

A lot of the messages were dodgy and if he was sacked because of it, fair enough but he was cleared so it feels like he's now going due to a power play which doesn't feel right

It'll be very interesting to see what Adrian Newey does - I'd imagine he's on a very very good salary
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According to Verstappen’s camp on Dutch TV they said Newey is not tied to Horney’s camp. Newey is 65 and isn’t getting any younger. Can’t see him leaving for another team at that age, don’t underestimate the amount of work & traveling required as well as the pressure a chief engineer at a F1 team must go through.
 

Tyrion

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hobbers said:
He'd have to be absolutely deranged to take that seat in 2025. Literally giving away a world championship for no benefit.

More likely Horner is edged out the door at some point during the season and Max plots to leave in 2026 if the engine isnt looking good.
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Exactly. Max was great years ago but still didnt challenge the Merc. Any of the top 5 or 6 drivers could win a title in that Red Bull. They dont need Max and he'd be mad to leave.
 

The Firestarter

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I think its completely nuts as an idea but I feel Max is getting a bit fed up with the non competition way he just wins every weekend. He might want to win multiple titles in a completely different team which would probably cement him as the goat.
 

Shane88

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The Firestarter said:
I think its completely nuts as an idea but I feel Max is getting a bit fed up with the non competition way he just wins every weekend. He might want to win multiple titles in a completely different team which would probably cement him as the goat.
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Guardiola should do the same with us.
 

laughtersassassin

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United Hobbit said:
I'm still convinced Max will be in Lewis' vacant seat in 2025
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Would be nuts to take it in 2025.

Toto would do anything to land Max so the easiest way to get him would be offer him the seat for 2026 and hope the Power Unit numbers on Mercs side are vastly above what Red Bull are estimating to have.

Which by current reports Merc are touted to have the better power unit of the two.

Merc can and will put a stop gap driver in for one year if it gets them Max imo.
 

United Hobbit

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laughtersassassin said:
Would be nuts to take it in 2025.

Toto would do anything to land Max so the easiest way to get him would be offer him the seat for 2026 and hope the Power Unit numbers on Mercs side are vastly above what Red Bull are estimating to have.

Which by current reports Merc are touted to have the better power unit of the two.

Merc can and will put a stop gap driver in for one year if it gets them Max imo.
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Imagine if they put Mick in it :lol:

Isn't Sainz getting linked with Audi? He could do a year in the Mercedes before Max joins, fill a year before they come in, or maybe Perez if RB ditch him, or a young driver?
 

dinostar77

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United Hobbit said:
Imagine if they put Mick in it :lol:

Isn't Sainz getting linked with Audi? He could do a year in the Mercedes before Max joins, fill a year before they come in, or maybe Perez if RB ditch him, or a young driver?
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As much as max would be the no1 choice for the vacant merc seat. More realistic would be sainz or Alonso on a 2 year deal. Would mean that Mercedes still have time to bring antonelli through at 19-20 years old. Totto has said Mercedes aren't going to let antonelli slip through their fingers like they did with a young verstappen.
 

dinostar77

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The Firestarter said:
I think its completely nuts as an idea but I feel Max is getting a bit fed up with the non competition way he just wins every weekend. He might want to win multiple titles in a completely different team which would probably cement him as the goat.
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Fangio won the wdc with four different teams. No one else has got past two different teams. It's a helluva tall order to achieve that. If someone can, they are in with a shout. Might be possible for one of the younger upcoming drivers as they will have longer F1 careers.

Be pretty amazing if Hamilton can sign his career off with a wdc at Ferrari. Would only be 2nd to fangio then for most wdc with different teams. Helluva difficult accomplishment to pull off.
 

United Hobbit

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dinostar77 said:
As much as max would be the no1 choice for the vacant merc seat. More realistic would be sainz or Alonso on a 2 year deal. Would mean that Mercedes still have time to bring antonelli through at 19-20 years old. Totto has said Mercedes aren't going to let antonelli slip through their fingers like they did with a young verstappen.
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Wonder where that would leave Max if he does want out at RB - do Mercedes go for the slightly riskier option of the potential next Max, or the multiple champion?

The only option I can see if they do go for Antonelli for Max is Ferrari if Lewis retires, as surely the next tier of teams (McLaren and Aston Martin) have very good young drivers, or are too uncompetitive.

Interesting point above re Max's legacy - obviously he's one of the best but he's only truly had to go toe to toe with someone for one of his likely to be 4 titles. I think he would beat most teammates currently on the grid, but until we get to see it there will always be that question mark of anyone could win in that RB

But then at times you hear him speak and don't entirely get the sense he's got the same obsession of cementing his reputation in the same way say a Lewis does. He almost comes across as wanting to try other things and sees a world outside F1. I certainly don't think he'd go with an uncompetitive team just to stay in F1.
 

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The rumours that Horner is to be sacked at getting stronger, now it seems that the RB main owners have changed their minds and want Horner out.
There is clearly a massive power struggle going on and if all the rumours are true, then maybe Marko and Jos have won the battle, would RB want to see Max going to a rival team and that rival could well be Mercedes.
What is happening off track is not effecting how they race, but it is affecting the RB brand.
Is Horner guilty of any offenses , no I dont think he is, is he guilty of being very creepy, judging by the leaked messages then yes he is, personally I think he is the victim of an internal power struggle, for what ever reason.
But this is far from over.

Red Bull owners hold crisis talks amid reports Christian Horner will be sacked (msn.com)
 

SilentWitness

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If RB and Horner and the above were transparent about what was going on then it wouldn't be a big deal that goes on from race to race but I suspect the lack of transparency (as with many other cases in the sporting world) is because they're hiding stuff they don't want people confirming as it makes them look like terrible people.
 
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