Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
- Thread starter esmufc07
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I can’t with a perspective that is plain false. It’s akin to flat earthers and climate change deniers.
There’s not even a piece of evidence you can use to back up your claim. There’s countless I can use to back up my claim.
Can you explain to me why there have been over 23,000 deaths relating to women and kids?
Either made up stats, or they were all Hamas. Obviously.
They usually commit their massacres at night, the deranged terrorists they are.
But that threat had been created by Israel by keep crippling Gaza, the West bank and any 2 state solutions because it never had been interested in that solution
October 7th is a reaction of Israel policies and he Gaza war is a reaction of october 7th and the next will be a reaction of palestinians and cycle keeps going.
You can't say that it started in October. IT didn't specially because Israel is the one that holds the power to stp this cycle because is the oppressor No matter what part on the cycle are we, Israel is the only one that can stop it. And that is complete annihilation of the palestinians via genocide and/or ethnic cleansing, that it seems is the route they are going or take the road of the 2 state solution. Palestinians can't decide their destiny because Israel controls it via controlling Gaza and via illegal settling in WB
You can always go back further to see them commit the same atrocities using the same tired excuses. Their policy always includes killing civilians and destroying their infrastructure to get what they want and terrorize the people of the cities they attack.
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Read it till the end.
Thank you for sharing. Interesting seeing the same questions raised by Fisk also being raised here regarding whether Israel's surgical strikes are actually inaccurate or whether they're perfectly accurate and the mass civilian killing is deliberate. But I guess the question of their accurate capabilities doesn't matter when they're only semi-applied and half the bombs dropped on Gaza are unguided. It works as a useful get-out-of-jail excuse in that they can't say they targeted civilians deliberately, they just dropped bombs and if civilians happened to be there then, well, civilians die in all wars in densely populated areas right?
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@Amir I have always admired the way you counducted yourself in this thread. You provide valuabe insight, what you see, what you think. As you say, you even agree with 90% of what is said here. And look where it got you. You are on some kind of trial for the last 24 hours for who you are. I know, it is just a stupid internet forum but still.
While there are many posters who criticize Israel fairly or promote Palestianian cause in good faith there are also some vile inviduals who would have a go at you in disgusting manner even if the agreement with them would be 99.99%. And you know the reasons why. I just dont understand why you still talk to them. IMO there is no point in that.But I am in absolutely no position to tell you what to do. I am just sad that it got to this point. Take care.
While there are many posters who criticize Israel fairly or promote Palestianian cause in good faith there are also some vile inviduals who would have a go at you in disgusting manner even if the agreement with them would be 99.99%. And you know the reasons why. I just dont understand why you still talk to them. IMO there is no point in that.But I am in absolutely no position to tell you what to do. I am just sad that it got to this point. Take care.
"You know why". Maybe he knows. But I need clarification. or are you a coward?
Even the US says that half of the bombs dropped are "dumb bombs". Gaza in one of the most densely populated urban areas in the world. So even using bombs like that shows they don't care one bit about civilians.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza/index.html
And you arent't either.
Again, the Oslo accords didn't stop Israel in the west bank etc.
I'm of the opinion there is no solution that doesn't increase bloodshed or involve the displacement of either group.
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What arguments have I made in bad faith? There's nothing in my exchange with Amir over the last few pages that is in bad faith.
This was supposed to be Yasser al-Ostaz’s final year at Al-Azhar University in Gaza City before graduating as an engineer. But on October 7, exactly a week after classes started in 2023, his hopes of completing his degree were shattered. Al-Ostaz, from north Gaza, is now living in a tent in the small town of Rafah, at the southernmost end of the territory, where more than a million people threatened with famine have crammed in to seek refuge from the military offensive Israel is waging against the militant group Hamas. Israel launched its offensive in response to the deadliest attack on the country’s soil since it was founded in 1948.
Al-Ostaz, from north Gaza, is now living in a tent in the small town of Rafah, at the southernmost end of the territory, where more than a million people threatened with famine have crammed in to seek refuge from the military offensive Israel is waging against the militant group Hamas. Israel launched its offensive in response to the deadliest attack on the country’s soil since it was founded in 1948.
For the 2.3mn Gazans trapped in the enclave devastated by five months of Israeli bombardment, survival is the immediate concern. But many are deeply anxious about their fates after the bombs stop falling. “There is nothing left after our homes and universities have been destroyed,” says al-Ostaz. “I think of leaving, but I haven’t got the slightest idea what to do.”
The lost future of young Gazans (ft.com)
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Not really sure what this accomplishes, but it's a significant shift in rhetoric from the Democrats, and it doesn't hurt that it comes from someone Jewish, so any accusations of anti-semitism would fall flat.
You've not seen the reaction on Twitter then? Might not be called anti-semetic but widely being attacked as a terrorist supporting, anti-zionist, self-hating jew.
Its best to look at the reaction and then work out if they would have expected it. It seems to have emboldened Netanyahu's position whilst being PR for the Dems. Its just playing the optics whilst they continue to send Israel money and weapons. Harris, the aid, leaks of Biden being annoyed. Its all just the same PR play from the Dems.
Netanyahu will effectively order many more civilian deaths and the US will feign outrage. Then we'll be told to move on.
Schumer is not an anti-semite. But that has nothing to do with him being Jewish. There are many Jews who are anti-semite. You judge that by what the person says or thinks and not by identity.
In this case, the significance is that Schumer has been very close and supportive of Netanyahu in the past.
Ah, the good old "self-hating Jew" stereotype.
For sure there are a lot of examples when people use it as a stereotype. And the same time it can be precisely what it says.
Out of interest, who are examples of people you feel fit that categorisation?
You think Jews exhibit more self-hatred than other religious or racial groups?
He's probably the only one who could get away with saying it. Repubclicans won't because they are far more pro-Israel than many Dems. Biden won't because a POTUS saying it could be interpreted as a form of election interference. The seven other sitting Jewish Senators couldn't either since none of them are particularly close to Netanyahu.
Frankly speaking, I don't have so deep knowledge about other groups in this regard to be able to compare it. There is tone of research and works about Jewish self-hatred (roots, reasons, etc.), which I am aware of, dating back to the beginning of 20th century to present time. I cant really comment on other groups in detail.
From more distant past, Kreisky, today e.g. Chomsky or Filkenstein.
What are the houthis and Hizbullah are doing?
Exactly. Isn't calling a Jewish person self hating in itself extremely anti Semitic?
Why do you feel Chomsky and Finkelstein are self-hating Jews? What have they said that alludes to their alleged anti-semitism? Finkelstein is the son of holocaust survivors and Chomsky himself grew up in a Kibbutz. They're prominent dissenting voices for sure, but calling them self-hating Jews is a little extreme don't you think?
In my view, the stereotype of the self-hating Jew is primarily used by fervent Zionists to discredit Jewish criticism of the state of Israel. By labelling it 'self-hatred' they effectively shift the focus from rational criticism of the criminal activites of a nation, towards something that is an internal problem of the individual person doing the criticizing. In fact, 'self-hatred' almost implies something pathological - a mental problem.
Of course, there is also an element of claiming what it means to be Jewish, but the main aspect is always supporting Israel.
It definitely is. It relies on an assumption that due to a persons heritage they must hold certain views, and if they don't, something is wrong with them.
I will only focus on one aspect, although you can find many more examples. And the fact that Filkenstein is the son of Holocaust survivors...that makes it even worse.
Chomsky said that denial of gas chambers or Holocaust itself has no anti-semitic implications. And Filkenstein has nothing but praise for David Irving. David Irving. I dont think more needs to be said about those two.
Thought so, thanks.
@Mods, can you please keep an eye out for this extremely anti-semitic phrase "self hating" in this thread. No one should be oppressed or lowered in stature due to their religious and traditional beliefs.
I agree with your first sentence. For example if someone would say that Bernie Sanders is self-hating jew or anti-semite, that would be exactly what you described. A stereotype. Sanders is staunch critic of Israel who happens to be Jewish. And that is perfectly fine. Him being Jewish doesn't make his arguments stronger or weaker.