Who replaces Ten Hag?

Plant0x84

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DJ_21 said:
None of them players was here when Moyes took over. And only Rashford, Shaw and Martial are the only 3 that have been here since LVG. Our previous managers have all stated the same problem though, LVG called the club out, Mourinho did, Rangnick did and even Ole has.
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Doesn’t seem like a bad place to start!
I agree with the final point, we must build the club structure before we look at the head coach.
 

E-mal

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DJ_21 said:
Doesn’t mean he’ll do it here though. ETH was very highly rated at Ajax and we all thought he’d bring the style with him but for whatever reason he didn’t.
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What is clear to see about De Zerbi is that he has coached at different clubs and has played the same brand of football regardless of the personal, that is conviction! ETH is coming across like someone that had very little influence on how Ajax played seeing he is not ready to implement that style here. He has the goodwill to implement that style from the first season and the fans were ready to go through it with him but my man decided to be a transition team, shows lack of conviction in his style of play.
 

E-mal

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DeZerbi for the first step and two years to implement that style then we can start talking about bring title wining players that fit that style.
 

stefan92

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Lyng said:
Interesting. I have massive worries about him regarding man management. And the whole skiing trip thing, is that just the press making up things or?
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I think it wasn't smart to go on that short trip in that situation, as it was an obvious attack angle for the media. Besides that I don't think it makes a big difference if a manager does a weekend trip while his players are away anyways.
 

Plant0x84

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VP89 said:
I want to clarify that I'm not done per say. I am just indifferent at this stage.
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Fair enough. I think we limp to the end of the season then reset. Hopefully we win the cup along the way.
Could be a big summer with Martial, Sancho, VDB and possibly Varane and Casemiro out.
With INEOS guidance I’m hopeful that we start next season in a much healthier situation!
 

DJ_21

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Plant0x84 said:
Doesn’t seem like a bad place to start!
I agree with the final point, we must build the club structure before we look at the head coach.
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Ye I think Rashford and Martial definitely cause trouble in the dressing room. I wouldn’t have Shaw down as that type of person though.
 

adkb

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People need to understand that just signing the next attacking manager will not make us an attacking side. Most attacking teams are skillful and have good control over the ball. Their defense is fast and proactive. Their players can control a ball and make 5 yard passes. ETH played attacking football at Ajax. If he is being forced to play this dull football here then its only because of the players he has at his disposal. We need to recruit better. Much much better for any attacking minded manager to have a chance. I am ETH in all the way. Look at the team, he is doing wonders with the team. I know most will think this is a bit much especially after losing to Chelsea in the manner, but we cannot continue the cycle anymore. New manager comes in, great first season, and then shitty next season. Let us go through the shits I say, purge the players who have been here since forever and then look at a new manager.
 

AndySmith1990

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adkb said:
People need to understand that just signing the next attacking manager will not make us an attacking side. Most attacking teams are skillful and have good control over the ball. Their defense is fast and proactive. Their players can control a ball and make 5 yard passes. ETH played attacking football at Ajax. If he is being forced to play this dull football here then its only because of the players he has at his disposal. We need to recruit better. Much much better for any attacking minded manager to have a chance. I am ETH in all the way. Look at the team, he is doing wonders with the team. I know most will think this is a bit much especially after losing to Chelsea in the manner, but we cannot continue the cycle anymore. New manager comes in, great first season, and then shitty next season. Let us go through the shits I say, purge the players who have been here since forever and then look at a new manager.
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"doing wonders with the team"

Bet you had a big smirk on your face as you posted that
 

Dazzmondo

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B. Munich said:
Not sure were you got that feeling from. I don't remember Rangnick having any (major) issues or fallouts with players at his former clubs.
Yes he can be ruthless, if players are lazy and don't give their all. He will just replace them like Arteta did at Arsenal. But that's exactly what a club like United needed in the position you were in.
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I mean moreso that the players at Utd didn't really know who he was. Ronaldo said this in his interview with Piers Morgan. That makes a big difference to players at a top club. Rangnick was well-known in Germany but he wasn't well-known outside Germany. Nagelsman is far more well-known. The players would definitely know who Nagelsman is because he has a pretty good reputation in England and it's generally portrayed that Bayern made a really stupid decision sacking him, which only increased his reputation as a coach.
 

Malons

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Mathematically it's still possible to get top 5. I don't see why they don't roll the '**** it' dice and hope for a new guy boost and recruit properly in summer. If it doesn't work then you've lost nothing. If it works then it looks like a stroke of genius. I don't care who it is, quite honestly.
 

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Been seeing press moot Thiago Motta as the next United manager and I just want to throw in my 2 cents that, just like Potter (and possibly Southgate), I think this is probably some journalist putting 2 and 2 together.

Southgate seems like an easy enough rumour to come up with - high profile, past links with Ashworth. And Potter we know for a fact is admired within the Ineos hierarchy because they approached him in the summer to take the Nice job.

Well, Motta falls into tye same category as Potter - Ineos approached him last summer to take the Nice job.

Link for those interested - https://football-italia.net/nice-join-psg-in-fight-for-thiago-motta/amp/

If the above story is true then it potentially reflects well on Ineos IMO given that they picked Motta out as having potential even before he had Bologna in line for Champions League qualification. The piece says that PSG also sounded Motta out, which makes sense as he obviously played for them and was coaching their youth team before taking his first job in senior football, so they would have some idea if he's any good. The piece also puts the admiration down to Nasser Al Khelaifi.

But I found this part of the Nice links interesting -

PSG are not alone in their interest, however, as Nice have also entered the race. A key figure in this is Jean-Claude Blanc, who was PSG CEO from 2011 to 2022 before leaving to join Ineos, the owners of Nice.

Blanc has been following Thiago Motta since the Italian-Brazilian’s arrival in Paris in January 2012 and has an excellent relationship with him
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Jean Claude Blanc's relationship with Motta making him aware of his coaching talent kind of makes sense.

I think the Motta story is just leveraging the Nice link in the past, which in turn is also probably just a journalist leveraging the Blanc-PSG connection.

Link in Gazzetta Dello Sport from last summer if anyone wants to translate -

 

daba

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Plant0x84 said:
Why is everyone so concerned with fecking charisma all of a sudden? You want him to dance around and put on a show or have a rant to the media after the game? What difference does it make? He needs to be tactically adept and a good man motivator, feck charisma.
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Can you name 3 top managers that don’t / didn’t have charisma?
 

daba

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If we get embarrassed by Liverpool I wouldn’t be against getting De Zerbi in now. Might give us a mini boost for the remaining fixtures (and potential cup final) as I’m genuinely worried we could continue to slip and finish 8th and miss out on Europe all together. It will also allow him to assess the players before pre-season so he can give input on any departures and help get us some new faces confirmed early.
 

Forevergiggs1

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Malons said:
Mathematically it's still possible to get top 5. I don't see why they don't roll the '**** it' dice and hope for a new guy boost and recruit properly in summer. If it doesn't work then you've lost nothing. If it works then it looks like a stroke of genius. I don't care who it is, quite honestly.
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Pep or Klopp wouldn't get a new guy boost out of this lot. Half the team needs culling before we're going anywhere.
 

SirBillNic

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Plant0x84 said:
Why is everyone so concerned with fecking charisma all of a sudden? You want him to dance around and put on a show or have a rant to the media after the game? What difference does it make? He needs to be tactically adept and a good man motivator, feck charisma.
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You need charisma to be a good man motivator though. Like others have said, almost all the top managers have charisma or some it-factor (in addition to tactical aptitude), with the possible exception of Ancelotti. But even Ancelotti if you listen to interviews with his former players, many of them say he's the best man-manager they've played under. Iirc, both Terry and Lampard said that.

When I listen to Ten Hag I don't get the impression that's he's someone who can get a whole squad of players motivated to get behind his ideas. Admittedly that's pretty subjective, but the fact that a lot of people have that impression tells you that it's possible the people playing under him might as well.
 

lsd

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Forevergiggs1 said:
Pep or Klopp wouldn't get a new guy boost out of this lot. Half the team needs culling before we're going anywhere.
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Yet Ole came in and won 14 on the bounce with a lot of the the players people on here love to criticise
 

Forevergiggs1

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lsd said:
Yet Ole came in and won 14 on the bounce with a lot of the the players people on here love to criticise
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Because Ole basically came in and gave the players free reign which must of seemed like a breath of fresh air after José but was never going to be sustainable. Any manager that tried to instill a bit of discipline inevitably failed because we've created an environment where we keep rewarding mediocre players with salaries and contracts way above their actual performances/level. The rot has well and truly set in. The players turn up when they want which is why any manager coming in is on a hiding to nothing.

If Pep or Klopp did come in how many players do you think would still be here in 2 years? 4 maybe 5? That's the level of shitness that we're currently in. I really do feel for the next manager that walks through the door.

I still have hope due to the changes being made at the top. Whether that hope Is warranted or not remains to be seen but it's gave me something to hold onto that the shit show we've created will finally be put behind us.
 

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Forevergiggs1 said:
Because Ole basically came in and gave the players free reign which must of seemed like a breath of fresh air after José but was never going to be sustainable. Any manager that tried to instill a bit of discipline inevitably failed because we've created an environment where we keep rewarding mediocre players with salaries and contracts way above their actual performances/level. The rot has well and truly set in. The players turn up when they want which is why any manager coming in is on a hiding to nothing.

If Pep or Klopp did come in how many players do you think would still be here in 2 years? 4 maybe 5? That's the level of shitness that we're currently in. I really do feel for the next manager that walks through the door.

I still have hope due to the changes being made at the top. Whether that hope Is warranted or not remains to be seen but it's gave me something to hold onto that the shit show we've created will finally be put behind us.
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Even Rangnick had a new manager bounce for the first few months, with 7 wins, five draws and one loss in his first 13 league games.

I doubt INEOS makes a change during the season unless it gets very very bad, but it's definitely possible to get a short-term bounce out of the current team.
 

Malons

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I'm not Southgate's biggest fan. But is there something in idea of hiring a manager who fans don't expect to return us to the top of the table within 5 minutes? Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ten Hag - all came in with the expectation/assumption of 'this is the one', meaning the guy we were all sure would take us back to the top. And it hasn't worked. Maybe that pressure by itself was an influencing factor. Because there was that expectation and anticipation that they would turn our fortunes around they all had to think short-term and get results immediately.

Southgate at least would not really have that pressure. The expectation wouldn't be the same. It would allow time to work on the basics, the fundamentals. Take time, go back to drawing board, clear out some deadwood and do the ground work because nobody would be saying "Gareth Southgate's the man, we'll be league champions within two or three seasons, I reckon". So the inevitability of a struggle during the transition will be expected. Nobody else really got that. All our appointments so far have came into the job with almost immediate expectation. Hiring someone very few of us want, might not be the worst idea in the world.


MadDogg said:
Even Rangnick had a new manager bounce for the first few months, with 7 wins, five draws and one loss in his first 13 league games.

I doubt INEOS makes a change during the season unless it gets very very bad, but it's definitely possible to get a short-term bounce out of the current team.
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If it gets very, very bad there's no point changing things. It's like only going to a mechanic once your car is written off.
 

MadDogg

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Malons said:
I'm not Southgate's biggest fan. But is there something in idea of hiring a manager who fans don't expect to return us to the top of the table within 5 minutes? Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ten Hag - all came in with the expectation/assumption of 'this is the one', meaning the guy we were all sure would take us back to the top. And it hasn't worked. Maybe that pressure by itself was an influencing factor. Because there was that expectation and anticipation that they would turn our fortunes around they all had to think short-term and get results immediately.

Southgate at least would not really have that pressure. The expectation wouldn't be the same. It would allow time to work on the basics, the fundamentals. Take time, go back to drawing board, clear out some deadwood and do the ground work because nobody would be saying "Gareth Southgate's the man, we'll be league champions within two or three seasons, I reckon". So the inevitability of a struggle during the transition will be expected. Nobody else really got that. All our appointments so far have came into the job with almost immediate expectation. Hiring someone very few of us want, might not be the worst idea in the world.
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Only if that manager plays a similar style to what INEOS wants to move to.

It's not just about waiting while we change the structure above him and the players he's got, it's about training and practicing the patterns of play and general play style that will give us a good base moving forward. It's vital for the young players in particular to not waste the next couple of years playing and training something that doesn't develop them into the players they could be. And all new players we do sign should be coming straight into something that isn't too far off how we eventually want to play. I always wonder how much damage six years of Mourinho followed by Ole did to the bunch of talented young players we had at the time, and whether any of them could have developed into much better players than they ultimately did (Rashford for example).

Is Southgate that manager? I highly doubt it.
 

G-manc

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I can’t see how Nagelsmann is an option; if Germany have decent summer, he will likely stay on and even if he did come then, it would be too late.

Also, I’d Ineos going to go down the road of transfers being largely identified without the coach, they will want a puppet who won’t rock the boat. Nagelsmann doesn’t strike me as that sort of character.
 

Roboc7

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Malons said:
I'm not Southgate's biggest fan. But is there something in idea of hiring a manager who fans don't expect to return us to the top of the table within 5 minutes? Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ten Hag - all came in with the expectation/assumption of 'this is the one', meaning the guy we were all sure would take us back to the top. And it hasn't worked. Maybe that pressure by itself was an influencing factor. Because there was that expectation and anticipation that they would turn our fortunes around they all had to think short-term and get results immediately.

Southgate at least would not really have that pressure. The expectation wouldn't be the same. It would allow time to work on the basics, the fundamentals. Take time, go back to drawing board, clear out some deadwood and do the ground work because nobody would be saying "Gareth Southgate's the man, we'll be league champions within two or three seasons, I reckon". So the inevitability of a struggle during the transition will be expected. Nobody else really got that. All our appointments so far have came into the job with almost immediate expectation. Hiring someone very few of us want, might not be the worst idea in the world.




If it gets very, very bad there's no point changing things. It's like only going to a mechanic once your car is written off.
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Southgate would have more pressure than anyone though because he would be one of most unpopular choices the club could make. There would be virtually no patience for him and I am sure he’d be sacked very quickly.

We absolutely do need someone to lay the groundwork in terms of coaching but that needs to be somebody with the philosophy and capability to do that. Southgate would just be another one who would resort to counter attacking and defensive football.
 

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The sad truth is no manager is going to come in and get Varane (ver.2024) Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw (for a few games per season) AWB, Casemiro (ver.2024) Bruno, Rashford and McTom playing beautiful football.

It's a squad build to play counter-attack, Ole and EtH both had relative success playing that style, it only fell apart when they tried to change that approach.

The real problem is more that the manager can fix.
 

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G-manc said:
I can’t see how Nagelsmann is an option; if Germany have decent summer, he will likely stay on and even if he did come then, it would be too late.

Also, I’d Ineos going to go down the road of transfers being largely identified without the coach, they will want a puppet who won’t rock the boat. Nagelsmann doesn’t strike me as that sort of character.
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It's not about appointing a gormless puppet per se, at least according to my, admittedly limited, understanding of the subject. Rather, having an appropriate distribution of responsibilities in accordance with areas of specialization, maintaining a sense of consistency with strong institutional drivers in place (presumably, the collective of Berrada, Ashworth and Wilcox will develop and maintain this ecosystem), not putting too much on the plate of someone who is new to the machinations of the club in all likelihood (maybe new to the league and country as well, and perhaps even new to elite level of competition if it's an up-and-comer), being a bit skeptical to begin with and thinking about Manchester United's interests first and foremost before looseing the reigns if things appear to be heading in a positive direction, and not handing potential managerial appointment the keys to the entire castle from the very beginning (particularly in the transfer market (where improper decision-making can dramatically set the club back with regard to sporting objectives as well as financial bottom lines) and in terms of influencing the operations or ideology of the organization).

If Ratcliffe and co. stumble upon someone who is genuinely great, evidences the appropriate aptitude in areas that don't expressly relate to coaching, and seems capable of handling a wider range of responsibilities, they will almost definitely empower that Head Coach and employ an increasingly collaborative model (maybe promote him to a bona fide Manager role with all the associated bells and whistles). Crucially, that right and priviledge will have to be earned from here on out, it won't just be granted to every new appointment (which appeared to be the case under the Glazers, who hadn't curated a robust and rigorous sporting apparatus in the upper tiers of the organization). A wee bit like what happened with Arteta at Arsenal...
"Mikel's been here since the end of December and the last nine months have probably been the most challenging nine months in Arsenal's history - and we've been around for 134 years. Despite all of those challenges, Mikel has been driving this football club forward," chief executive Vinai Venkatesham told Arsenal Digital. "He has lifted the spirits and lifted the energy here at London Colney and with Arsenal fans all across the world. He is doing an absolutely phenomenal job.

"The other thing that's clear is that right from the day he walked through the door, he was doing much more than being our head coach. So we're going to be changing his job title going forward. He'll move from head coach to be the first-team manager. That's recognition of what he's been doing from the day he walked in the door, but also where we see his capabilities. "He is doing a great job of coaching the first team and that's his primary responsibility, but there is so much more that he can bring and that's why we're making this change, in recognition of his capabilities and also the job that he's doing already.
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Revealed: Arteta is now 'first-team manager'

This would have been the right approach with ten Hag too (considering he had previously worked under a domineering Director of Football in Overmars). He was allowed to wield far too much influence in all sorts of different sectors from the very beginning (instead of being assessed over time to earn his stripes), as if he was the second coming of Alex Ferguson or Matt Busby, which obviously wasn't the right move for the club, and even ten Hag himself (doubly so in hindsight). This was someone who was new to Manchester United, new to the Premier League, new to England, new to elite level of domestic football, someone who had a spotty record in the mercato — he should not have been the alpha and the omega of Manchester United's footballing operations right from the time of his appointment, and we unwittingly didn't put appropriate guardrails in place to ease him in and safeguard the interests of the club (which should have taken precedence over everything else). Now it's probably too late to put the genie back in the bottle, a looot of avoidable damage has already been done.
 

alexthelion

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lsd said:
Yet Ole came in and won 14 on the bounce with a lot of the the players people on here love to criticise
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What happened when he tried to play a more possession based game?

The players gave up on him, just like they have with every manager since Fergie. There's something really rotten in that dressing room.
 

Forevergiggs1

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MadDogg said:
Even Rangnick had a new manager bounce for the first few months, with 7 wins, five draws and one loss in his first 13 league games.

I doubt INEOS makes a change during the season unless it gets very very bad, but it's definitely possible to get a short-term bounce out of the current team.
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Position for position we've gathered one of the worst squads in the top 6. Our season depends on whether a couple of teenagers can sustain us for the final run in. This squad is a hybrid where we're not very good in possession nor are we that effective on the counter.The old saying, you can't get blood out of a stone comes to mind.
 

Chairman Steve

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New manager under INEOS would be the first team head coach, so we’re looking for coaches who excel at coaching (obviously), tactics and man management.

He does not have to have an amazing eye for talent outside the club because Ashworth and the Head of Recruitment would cover that, and he does not have to have a good judgement for youth players because Ashworth and Wilcox would cover that. It’s purely a bonus if that head coach can do those things.
 
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