I think if he came in, he'd be our best winger.
Michael Olise
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Cassidy
No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2013
- Messages
- 31,479
Agree, only issue is his fitness and for that reason we should avoid him.I think if he came in, he'd be our best winger.
As others have said - but not drummed home the point - we are the literal antithesis of a possession based side, and if we bought him, he'd be the fourth possession-based RW in a row that we would've sought after Sancho, Amad and Antony, every single one of them needed an overlapping full-back to 'unlock' their game, so why would things be any different for Olise? Granted he plays for Crystal Palace, but even they play cohesive and constructive football that actually gives Olise the platform he has to shine and look like the kind of player who should be at a better club playing a better version of the same thing. Eze thinks and moves in sync with him, too, which enables him to run inside and outside of his #10 and doesn't force him to over exert just to get up the pitch. Our #10 can't do that and I think Olise would have some of the same criticisms levelled at him here as other widemen reliant on others have had here.
The way we over exert, he'll see even more time out than at CP. This guy looks fragile in a system that optimises him; I'd worry for him in a system that doesn't.
I think we need to decide on a few things before bringing specialists in because the conditions are terrible for them as things currently stand. The way we currently are, you need solo mavericks that don't depend on anyone for anything. How Dembele is or how Kudus plays for West Ham. They have the potential to thrive even whilst we settle into a functional team and system and even then, function within whatever that system is - players like Olise are more doomed to fail from the outset because they need specific types of football to thrive. Slot Olise into a better team who play possession and he's probably going to shine and go up a gear, do the opposite, and people will call him a waste of money.
The way we over exert, he'll see even more time out than at CP. This guy looks fragile in a system that optimises him; I'd worry for him in a system that doesn't.
I think we need to decide on a few things before bringing specialists in because the conditions are terrible for them as things currently stand. The way we currently are, you need solo mavericks that don't depend on anyone for anything. How Dembele is or how Kudus plays for West Ham. They have the potential to thrive even whilst we settle into a functional team and system and even then, function within whatever that system is - players like Olise are more doomed to fail from the outset because they need specific types of football to thrive. Slot Olise into a better team who play possession and he's probably going to shine and go up a gear, do the opposite, and people will call him a waste of money.
FrankWhite
Not Frank White
- Joined
- May 3, 2017
- Messages
- 1,063
The fitness issue is my only concern too. What I don't undertand are the people calming he doesn't have enough quality to play for us. Saying he's one paced etc. That's absolutely nonsense to me. He's more refined than any of our current options. Neither Garnacho not Rashford should be starters for us. I dislike Garnacho the starter but love him as an up and coming young player.Agree, only issue is his fitness and for that reason we should avoid him.
bond19821982
Last Man Standing champion 2019/20
Eze as well.
Cassidy
No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2013
- Messages
- 31,479
Agree, except on Garnacho. Who is a very good young player, playing in a very dysfunctional team and attackThe fitness issue is my only concern too. What I don't undertand are the people calming he doesn't have enough quality to play for us. Saying he's one paced etc. That's absolutely nonsense to me. He's more refined than any of our current options. Neither Garnacho not Rashford should be starters for us. I dislike Garnacho the starter but love him as an up and coming young player.
FrankWhite
Not Frank White
- Joined
- May 3, 2017
- Messages
- 1,063
I think Kudus is probably the happy medium. Capable on the ball but also able to make things happen by himself. Same sort of thing Saka does. Did you notice how our ball retention on the right wing changed when Amad changed? We have to move away from these pure maverick types. Especially does that aren't good enough to warrant a system being built to suit them i.e. Rashford and Garnacho.As others have said - but not drummed home the point - we are the literal antithesis of a possession based side, and if we bought him, he'd be the fourth possession-based RW in a row that we would've sought after Sancho, Amad and Antony, every single one of them needed an overlapping full-back to 'unlock' their game, so why would things be any different for Olise? Granted he plays for Crystal Palace, but even they play cohesive and constructive football that actually gives Olise the platform he has to shine and look like the kind of player who should be at a better club playing a better version of the same thing. Eze thinks and moves in sync with him, too, which enables him to run inside and outside of his #10 and doesn't force him to over exert just to get up the pitch. Our #10 can't do that and I think Olise would have some of the same criticisms levelled at him here as other widemen reliant on others have had here.
The way we over exert, he'll see even more time out than at CP. This guy looks fragile in a system that optimises him; I'd worry for him in a system that doesn't.
I think we need to decide on a few things before bringing specialists in because the conditions are terrible for them as things currently stand. The way we currently are, you need solo mavericks that don't depend on anyone for anything. How Dembele is or how Kudus plays for West Ham. They have the potential to thrive even whilst we settle into a functional team and system and even then, function within whatever that system is - players like Olise are more doomed to fail from the outset because they need specific types of football to thrive. Slot Olise into a better team who play possession and he's probably going to shine and go up a gear, do the opposite, and people will call him a waste of money.
FrankWhite
Not Frank White
- Joined
- May 3, 2017
- Messages
- 1,063
I think it depends on how you look at him. If you ignore the fact that he's 19 and just look at the output you're getting from that position, it would be considered not good enough for what you'd expect from United's starting winger. However, if you look at the player, and what he's done in the past two years, you have to be impressed with him. I think we should be doing the former.Agree, except on Garnacho. Who is a very good young player, playing in a very dysfunctional team and attack
Cassidy
No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2013
- Messages
- 31,479
You can't because HS IS 19, and for his age he is producing at a level higher than most players of his age ever in the PL.I think it depends on how you look at him. If you ignore the fact that he's 19 and just look at the output you're getting from that position, it would be considered not good enough for what you'd expect from United's starting winger. However, if you look at the player, and what he's done in the past two years, you have to be impressed with him. I think we should be doing the former.
He is only going to keep improving
I suppose maverick paints a picture of a player who plays for himself, but I meant one who is seamless in and out of a system and relies on nothing but their raw athleticism and ability to thrive. Perhaps they can be considered eclectic, but these are definitely the kind of players who won’t suddenly look poorer in a disjointed side whereas the specialists are essentially being set up to fail by taking away the conditions that enabled them to really show what they are capable of.I think Kudus is probably the happy medium. Capable on the ball but also able to make things happen by himself. Same sort of thing Saka does. Did you notice how our ball retention on the right wing changed when Amad changed? We have to move away from these pure maverick types. Especially does that aren't good enough to warrant a system being built to suit them i.e. Rashford and Garnacho.
FrankWhite
Not Frank White
- Joined
- May 3, 2017
- Messages
- 1,063
I agree that he's 19 and will keep Improving. I just don't think he should be a starter for us.You can't because HS IS 19, and for his age he is producing at a level higher than most players of his age ever in the PL.
He is only going to keep improving
El Jefe
Full Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2012
- Messages
- 4,918
He gives me Sancho vibes. It’s just so hard for me not to see the similarities both on and off the ball.
Cassidy
No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2013
- Messages
- 31,479
Sancho can't even switch the play or shoot from distance well, they are not very similarHe gives me Sancho vibes. It’s just so hard for me not to see the similarities both on and off the ball.
Freak
Born a freak always a freak.
He has obvious qualities but he’s really injury prone. For that amount of money we need someone who can keep fit along with having the quality.
Marwood
Full Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2021
- Messages
- 4,343
I think if as a wide man you're mid paced you need some other top level attribute. I don't think he has that.The fitness issue is my only concern too. What I don't undertand are the people calming he doesn't have enough quality to play for us. Saying he's one paced etc. That's absolutely nonsense to me. He's more refined than any of our current options. Neither Garnacho not Rashford should be starters for us. I dislike Garnacho the starter but love him as an up and coming young player.
Top level, Champions League. Does Olise worry fullbacks. Not for me.
Cassidy
No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2013
- Messages
- 31,479
He quite obviously doesI think if as a wide man you're mid paced you need some other top level attribute. I don't think he has that.
Top level, Champions League. Does Olise worry fullbacks. Not for me.
Valencia Shin Crosses
Full Member
Correct. If you aren’t dangerous as a pure take on threat or running in behind, you have to be a supreme creative or goal threat in other ways which is just much harder to do consistently at the highest level.I think if as a wide man you're mid paced you need some other top level attribute. I don't think he has that.
Top level, Champions League. Does Olise worry fullbacks. Not for me.
Marwood
Full Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2021
- Messages
- 4,343
Top level stand out attributes?He quite obviously does
10 career goals and 19 asssits. Not yet capped by his national team.
This is not to say he's a bad player and for sure an upgrade on Antony.
But to say he's obviously got top level ability is a big stretch right now. It's based on hope more than evidence.
Cassidy
No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2013
- Messages
- 31,479
Evidence comes from watching football not looking at statsTop level stand out attributes?
10 career goals and 19 asssits. Not yet capped by his national team.
This is not to say he's a bad player and for sure an upgrade on Antony.
But to say he's obviously got top level ability is a big stretch right now. It's based on hope more than evidence.
He is a very good ball striker including from set pieces and quality at switching play
He has a top level first touch and can also beat players for fun.
Then if you want to look at his stats, look at his per 90 stats for goals and assist, I think you will be surprised
His main issue is his injury record
Last edited:
CM
Full Member
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2014
- Messages
- 7,392
He's a decent player but I'm not sure how much he raises the standard for the level of outlay required. Amad and Garnacho are both capable players playing in the same position.
I'd rather we looked at a cheaper alternative, or possibly a left winger instead. The bulk of our resources should go towards strengthening the spine of our team which is incredibly weak.
I'd rather we looked at a cheaper alternative, or possibly a left winger instead. The bulk of our resources should go towards strengthening the spine of our team which is incredibly weak.
Cassidy
No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2013
- Messages
- 31,479
Our attack is incredibly weak. Garnacho can also play LWHe's a decent player but I'm not sure how much he raises the standard for the level of outlay required. Amad and Garnacho are both capable players playing in the same position.
I'd rather we looked at a cheaper alternative, or possibly a left winger instead. The bulk of our resources should go towards strengthening the spine of our team which is incredibly weak.
luke511
Full Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2013
- Messages
- 6,966
Right wing is the bottom of the list for priority transfers. We have Amad, Garnacho, Mount and Antony as options there, along with Lacey and Mantato looking to break through in the next year or two.
In his defence, he has delivered in England and not in Germany.He gives me Sancho vibes. It’s just so hard for me not to see the similarities both on and off the ball.
Cassidy
No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2013
- Messages
- 31,479
Garnacho is actually a LW the rest have not proven themselves to be good enough.Right wing is the bottom of the list for priority transfers. We have Amad, Garnacho, Mount and Antony as options there, along with Lacey and Mantato looking to break through in the next year or two.
Mount is also not a winger
We do not create enough and one of the lowest scoring teams in the top half of the table (this has been the case for 2 seasons)
Apparently though we don’t need a RW, because reasons…
The only reasons we shouldnt sign him is his injury record
CM
Full Member
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2014
- Messages
- 7,392
It needs strengthening but it's all relative. We need a winger but not as much as we need CBs, midfielders or even a striker. This is the problem when you aren't proactive in your squad building, you encounter situations where you have to pick and choose because there's too much to do in one window otherwise.Our attack is incredibly weak. Garnacho can also play LW
luke511
Full Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2013
- Messages
- 6,966
Ideally Garnacho plays on the left yes but he has shown he can play comfortably on the right. Amad is a playmaker who should help fix that creating issue, his technical ability is superior to Olise's. Mount played as a wide forward under Tuchel, a mix between a 10 and winger, he could easily fill in there. Antony is open to being sold but we also have to leave room for upcoming talents like Lacey and Mantato. We have 2/3 centre midfielders, 2 centre backs, a left back and a striker to buy this window. If Rashford is sold then we might need a LW to rotate with Garnacho, although Mount could fit that role too, that's it in terms of wingers this summer.Garnacho is actually a LW the rest have not proven themselves to be good enough.
Mount is also not a winger
We do not create enough and one of the lowest scoring teams in the top half of the table (this has been the case for 2 seasons)
Apparently though we don’t need a RW, because reasons…
The only reasons we shouldnt sign him is his injury record
Cassidy
No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2013
- Messages
- 31,479
Or you do a-lot in one window. Considering we know we are shifting out 2 attackers (Martial, Sancho) and probably 2/3 more (Greenwood, Antony, Pellistri) I think you’ll find signing 2 attacking players is a mustIt needs strengthening but it's all relative. We need a winger but not as much as we need CBs, midfielders or even a striker. This is the problem when you aren't proactive in your squad building, you encounter situations where you have to pick and choose because there's too much to do in one window otherwise.
Cassidy
No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2013
- Messages
- 31,479
Mount isn’t a winger.Ideally Garnacho plays on the left yes but he has shown he can play comfortably on the right. Amad is a playmaker who should help fix that creating issue, his technical ability is superior to Olise's. Mount played as a wide forward under Tuchel, a mix between a 10 and winger, he could easily fill in there. Antony is open for being sold but we also have to leave room for upcoming talents like Lacey and Mantato. We have 3 centre midfielders, 2 centre backs, a left back and a striker to buy this window. If Rashford is sold then we might need a back up LW, that's it in terms of wingers this summer.
We also know Rashford isn’t going to continue to start LW if his form does not change.
We also know at least Martial Sancho and Pellistri will be let go and likely Greenwood, Amad, and possbily Antony won’t survive the summer
luke511
Full Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2013
- Messages
- 6,966
Mount played the same position under Tuchel that Olise played for Crystal Palace v Liverpool this weekend..Mount isn’t a winger.
We also know Rashford isn’t going to continue to start LW if his form does not change.
We also know at least Martial Sancho and Pellistri will be let go and likely Greenwood, Amad, and possbily Antony won’t survive the summer
We don't need Olise when we already have Amad, it's that simple.
The Irish Connection
Full Member
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2017
- Messages
- 2,343
100%Garnacho is actually a LW the rest have not proven themselves to be good enough.
Mount is also not a winger
We do not create enough and one of the lowest scoring teams in the top half of the table (this has been the case for 2 seasons)
Apparently though we don’t need a RW, because reasons…
The only reasons we shouldnt sign him is his injury record
Antony has been way below par.
I’m also not getting the people who are saying he is only a possession based winger. He literally plays for Crystal Palace who are a low block/counter attack side. He certainly is a good passer and retains possession well but he can definitely play quickly on the break too.
And unlike Sancho, he’s proven in the league. 50m for him is good value.
Although, yes, the injury record is a concern.
Him and a top striker would be my first signings. And we’ll need at least 5.
Todd
Full Member
Ehh, I don't know. We desperately need goal contributors and we've been absolutely horrid in getting anything from that position.Right wing is the bottom of the list for priority transfers. We have Amad, Garnacho, Mount and Antony as options there, along with Lacey and Mantato looking to break through in the next year or two.
Unfortunately there are so many needs right now but I'd put RW up there with a CDM, a striker, and a CB as pretty important.
luke511
Full Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2013
- Messages
- 6,966
Garnacho has done alright there, the main problem has been Rashford. Ten Hag has refused to drop him and has underused Amad because of it since December, but maybe in the last run of games we'll see a lot more of him. What we've seen of him so far this season has been encouraging, he hasn't struggled adapting to different levels of football because of his technical ability. Whether it be the U23s, Europa League, Scottish football, the Championship or the Premier League, his stats hold up very well. We have plenty of options for right wing next season, once we build a proper midfield with a strong CB pairing, along with worthy cover for Shaw and Hojlund, it will transform our side.Ehh, I don't know. We desperately need goal contributors and we've been absolutely horrid in getting anything from that position.
Unfortunately there are so many needs right now but I'd put RW up there with a CDM, a striker, and a CB as pretty important.
Ekeke
Full Member
No its based on the fact that 6 of those goals and 4 assists have come from 9 starts and 4 sub appearances this season. And 11 more of those assists and 2 more goals came from 31 starts and 6 sub appearances last season.Top level stand out attributes?
10 career goals and 19 asssits. Not yet capped by his national team.
This is not to say he's a bad player and for sure an upgrade on Antony.
But to say he's obviously got top level ability is a big stretch right now. It's based on hope more than evidence.
Those numbers come from a short amount of time from a very young player. Thats all you can do as a young player. You arent going to boast 50 goals and 50 assists at 22 unless you've been playing lots of first team matches since you were 16 and were very good from the start.
The injury record is a concern and will likely hamper his stats. It might be hard to pick up where he left off this season with end product
But assuming you can keep him fit to play 30 games like he did last season he's an outstanding player. 11 premier league assists for a single season at 20/21 is a really good record. Only players like De Bruyne are doing more at that stage of their career and you cant have 5 or 6 teams full of players emulating his numbers with every attacking player who starts for them. I'd call that the "top level" - the 5 or 6 teams who go the deepest in the champions league or the ones that didnt but dominate one of the top leagues, for example Leverkusen this season
His passing and crossing are his highlight stand out attributes, then his dribbling, shot and speed. He's more than fast enough to counter attack and get beyond fullbacks and has an expansive passing range that can put someone else in when they're 20-30 yards away from him and he can put a good ball into the box for a teammate.
Ekeke
Full Member
Palace average 40.4% of the ball this season which is 17th of 20 teams. 45% last season which would be 14th in the leagueAs others have said - but not drummed home the point - we are the literal antithesis of a possession based side, and if we bought him, he'd be the fourth possession-based RW in a row that we would've sought after Sancho, Amad and Antony, every single one of them needed an overlapping full-back to 'unlock' their game, so why would things be any different for Olise? Granted he plays for Crystal Palace, but even they play cohesive and constructive football that actually gives Olise the platform he has to shine and look like the kind of player who should be at a better club playing a better version of the same thing. Eze thinks and moves in sync with him, too, which enables him to run inside and outside of his #10 and doesn't force him to over exert just to get up the pitch. Our #10 can't do that and I think Olise would have some of the same criticisms levelled at him here as other widemen reliant on others have had here.
The way we over exert, he'll see even more time out than at CP. This guy looks fragile in a system that optimises him; I'd worry for him in a system that doesn't.
I think we need to decide on a few things before bringing specialists in because the conditions are terrible for them as things currently stand. The way we currently are, you need solo mavericks that don't depend on anyone for anything. How Dembele is or how Kudus plays for West Ham. They have the potential to thrive even whilst we settle into a functional team and system and even then, function within whatever that system is - players like Olise are more doomed to fail from the outset because they need specific types of football to thrive. Slot Olise into a better team who play possession and he's probably going to shine and go up a gear, do the opposite, and people will call him a waste of money.
He's done quite a lot with the ball with not that much of it. He is absolutely playing in a counter attacking team
Cassidy
No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2013
- Messages
- 31,479
Amad… how many PL games has he played?Mount played the same position under Tuchel that Olise played for Crystal Palace v Liverpool this weekend..
We don't need Olise when we already have Amad, it's that simple.
Also I will keep repeating it. Mount is not a winger
Cassidy
No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2013
- Messages
- 31,479
Which winger plays next to him on the RW?Don’t know why people compare him to our right wingers. He’s played mostly as an attacking midfielder on the right, with a winger next to him, no?
Every time I’ve seen him it’s basically been in Bruno’s position.
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2015
- Messages
- 972
You need technical ability and intelligence, which he has in buckets and we lack. But I do think you should pair him with an explosive full back, he'd be great for someone like Hojlund.I think if as a wide man you're mid paced you need some other top level attribute. I don't think he has that.
Top level, Champions League. Does Olise worry fullbacks. Not for me.
The overall stat is most likely apt for the mish-mash there, but the interactions I have seen between he and Eze and the way they build is not excessively vertical and looks really solid rather than forced or ‘quick’. if those possession stats can be broken down further, I’d like to know how much of that number those two players constitute - how much play is funnelled to and through these two compared to the rest of the side? is what I’d be interested in knowing.Palace average 40.4% of the ball this season which is 17th of 20 teams. 45% last season which would be 14th in the league
He's done quite a lot with the ball with not that much of it. He is absolutely playing in a counter attacking team
Roboc7
Full Member
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2014
- Messages
- 6,670
I think he is a good player but when you weigh up the injuries, the 50m odd fee and the huge investment required in midfield and at centre back I would give signing him a miss this summer.
Would take a punt on Bardghji instead and give Amad some more opportunities.
Would take a punt on Bardghji instead and give Amad some more opportunities.