About 70 games between them this season, hardly key players that (this season anyway).
Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney | Wrexham AFC Watch
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Tozer has been a key player for them. Luke Young the captain. Hayden unlucky with injuries, same with Lainton. Maybe not all of them that crucial this season but key players and probably key characters (in the dressing room) in their climb-up.About 70 games between them this season, hardly key players that (this season anyway).
CallyRed
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Anyone on sale from our club fancy North Wales? I'm sure AWB is a big Deadpool fan.
Let's be honest, they're playing real life Football Manager there. As a project, it's got plenty of life in it, if they do things correctly. Especially so if they have a far-reaching plan rather than short-termism cash grabbing. The connections available to them, they could become what Crewe used to be in terms of a hub for young talent loaned out from leagues above, which would do wonders for them in terms of talent literal levels above the league they reside in taken in for relative peanuts. Managers too, can use them for exposure and fast track themselves whilst elevating Wrexham. If they can become the Dortmund [model] of the lower leagues, they'll be laughing. I think they'll also find it easy to finesse oldies who played at much higher levels into giving a season or too there as their own vanity project and send off.
Lots of other avenues too that circumvent the perfunctory grind that won't necessarily cost them a relative fortune off the back of the media vehicle they have become. I don't even think they are a certainty to be mired in the Championship.
Lots of other avenues too that circumvent the perfunctory grind that won't necessarily cost them a relative fortune off the back of the media vehicle they have become. I don't even think they are a certainty to be mired in the Championship.
Swedish_Plumber
Full Member
Yeah I think the fans deserve it to be honest. They’ve been royally fecked over by owners in the past.I hope they do. They are doing what most of us dream of. Buying a club and watching it get better and bigger every year. It’s almost if not better than having the money to buy a big established club. Watch people moan when players want to come to them from the Championship.
Alex99
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It was just the one owner that wanted to dissolve the club, knock down the stadium and use the land for a housing development. Haven't we all been there?Yeah I think the fans deserve it to be honest. They’ve been royally fecked over by owners in the past.
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I dont know. Football league clubs are still subject to FFP right? Wrexham get around it because their revenues are enormous for a club that far down the pyramid.feel like they're just writing the playbook for whatever middle eastern dictator or private equity owner wants to do this next.
Instead of buying like 25% of some flimsy Barca studio revenue why not have your own club, inject some cash and make it all the way to the PL?
Infact why not do it multiple times? A core group of competent management with contacts across European football can repeat what wrexham are doing very easily.
An oil baron would have to do a City and make up a bunch of BS overpriced sponsorship deals to replicate what Wrexham have done.
njred
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Wouldn’t be the same. Oil can’t buy fame and could never replicate being owned by basically two of the nicest entertainers around. People care about Wrexham whereas an oil team that does well with the same type of setup would have a negative backlash from everyone but their own supporters.I dont know. Football league clubs are still subject to FFP right? Wrexham get around it because their revenues are enormous for a club that far down the pyramid.
An oil baron would have to do a City and make up a bunch of BS overpriced sponsorship deals to replicate what Wrexham have done.
UnrelatedPsuedo
I pity the poor fool who stinks like I do!
It’s an incredible thing to do a really exciting thing i. a very boring manner, and wrap an interesting narrative around it.
They haven’t done anything other than buy and pay players at a sensible value, with a sensible trustable manager.
They’ve not gone mad, they haven’t jumped around the globe searching for new talent with their fingers crossed. They haven’t sold their fans down a river. They’ve not gone high and spoke about global brands and shite. They’ve immersed the club deeper into the existing community, and taken them along for a fun ride.
It’s genius in its simplicity.
I mean, I hope they sign Vardy either this year or next for a proper tilt at another near-term promotion. But they won’t. Because they’re sensible.
They haven’t done anything other than buy and pay players at a sensible value, with a sensible trustable manager.
They’ve not gone mad, they haven’t jumped around the globe searching for new talent with their fingers crossed. They haven’t sold their fans down a river. They’ve not gone high and spoke about global brands and shite. They’ve immersed the club deeper into the existing community, and taken them along for a fun ride.
It’s genius in its simplicity.
I mean, I hope they sign Vardy either this year or next for a proper tilt at another near-term promotion. But they won’t. Because they’re sensible.
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Under 21s don't count on 22 man squad limit so they'll definitely loan some young players.I'm 100% sure they will grab a few of those. Easier to get PL players on loan too in League One.
Some of the best academies in the world are on their doorstep.
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They've been key players in the past but realistically they're not suitable for L1.Some of the their key players in the promotions have been released.
Aaron Hayden, Rob Lainton, Ben Tozer, Jordan Tunnicliffe and Luke Young all released at the end of their contracts.
There's a 22 man squad limit so squad places are precious.
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The population within 100km is 11.2m. I know the majority will already support a club but they only need to capture a small %.It's a daft pipe dream.
This idea that they're somehow going to be the club of North Wales is bizarre, and a lot of the goodwill they had when they escaped the National League has already fallen away.
If you're travelling to Wrexham from Bangor, Llandudno, Holyhead, Caernarfon, wherever, you may as well drive a few extra miles to Manchester or Liverpool, which is what the majority of match-going football fans in the area already do. These fans aren't going to switch allegiances because of Ryan Reynolds and a Disney + show.
Fans of League Two (and now League One) clubs seem to have grown quite disdainful of them and their rise. Some of it is probably through jealousy, but it must be quite galling to support a team that's languished at that level for a while, then a club comes from the division below, vastly outspends everyone around them, then celebrates their promotion like some sort of fairytale miracle.
The last census had the urban population at around 45,000, and the borough at about 130,000. They're never filling a stadium that large, even with PL football.
Filling a 45,000 stadium in the PL isn't so crazy but I think 30 to 35,000 might be their ceiling.
Yeah no it makes sense and they have to be ruthless to be able to keep going forward.They've been key players in the past but realistically they're not suitable for L1.
There's a 22 man squad limit so squad places are precious.
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There's no real precedent for this.feel like they're just writing the playbook for whatever middle eastern dictator or private equity owner wants to do this next.
Instead of buying like 25% of some flimsy Barca studio revenue why not have your own club, inject some cash and make it all the way to the PL?
Infact why not do it multiple times? A core group of competent management with contacts across European football can repeat what wrexham are doing very easily.
It's not comparable to oil money either.
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They've been clever in hiring experience and competence (excluding Humphrey Ker who is very likable).It’s an incredible thing to do a really exciting thing i. a very boring manner, and wrap an interesting narrative around it.
They haven’t done anything other than buy and pay players at a sensible value, with a sensible trustable manager.
They’ve not gone mad, they haven’t jumped around the globe searching for new talent with their fingers crossed. They haven’t sold their fans down a river. They’ve not gone high and spoke about global brands and shite. They’ve immersed the club deeper into the existing community, and taken them along for a fun ride.
It’s genius in its simplicity.
I mean, I hope they sign Vardy either this year or next for a proper tilt at another near-term promotion. But they won’t. Because they’re sensible.
The likes of Shaun Harvey, Fleur Robinson, Phil Parkinson etc know football inside out.
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Humphrey Ker said recently that they've the highest iFollow revenue in the entire EFL - that's Championship down.Let's be honest, they're playing real life Football Manager there. As a project, it's got plenty of life in it, if they do things correctly. Especially so if they have a far-reaching plan rather than short-termism cash grabbing. The connections available to them, they could become what Crewe used to be in terms of a hub for young talent loaned out from leagues above, which would do wonders for them in terms of talent literal levels above the league they reside in taken in for relative peanuts. Managers too, can use them for exposure and fast track themselves whilst elevating Wrexham. If they can become the Dortmund [model] of the lower leagues, they'll be laughing. I think they'll also find it easy to finesse oldies who played at much higher levels into giving a season or too there as their own vanity project and send off.
Lots of other avenues too that circumvent the perfunctory grind that won't necessarily cost them a relative fortune off the back of the media vehicle they have become. I don't even think they are a certainty to be mired in the Championship.
Also they sell 50,000 shirts a year which is lower PL level.
So I'd imagine they see themselves as being an upper Championship/lower PL club in the near future.
I'd imagine they're studying the likes of Brighton, Brentford, Bournemouth, Burnley etc... in terms of recruitment, structure, youth academy etc.
I think automatic promotion is unrealistic next year with some big clubs up there but a promotion place is definitely achievable.
Alex99
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100km is a ridiculous distance though. You're literally getting into the Midlands, Yorkshire, and including a fair chunk of the North West of England with that. There's close to 0% chance they capture any of that market.The population within 100km is 11.2m. I know the majority will already support a club but they only need to capture a small %.
Filling a 45,000 stadium in the PL isn't so crazy but I think 30 to 35,000 might be their ceiling.
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Football fans are fairly fluid so geography doesn't matter so much.100km is a ridiculous distance though. You're literally getting into the Midlands, Yorkshire, and including a fair chunk of the North West of England with that. There's close to 0% chance they capture any of that market.
I just mean that their target market isn't just Wrexham and north Wales, they can easily attract fans from the NW of England and the midlands.
100km is just an hour or so. Good road network.
I'm just saying a 45,000 capacity isn't so crazy when you consider over 10m people are within an hour's drive.
But realistically I think 30 to 35,000 might be their ceiling.
We'll have to see I guess as we're talking decades.
It'll take two years to do the Kop at least. Another 2 years to do the Tech end.
They might be over 20,000 then maybe.
I think they'll redesign the Kop for higher capacity also. 5000 isn't much.
Alex99
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It categorically will not be easy for them to attract fans from those regions.Football fans are fairly fluid so geography doesn't matter so much.
I just mean that their target market isn't just Wrexham and north Wales, they can easily attract fans from the NW of England and the midlands.
100km is just an hour or so. Good road network.
I'm just saying a 45,000 capacity isn't so crazy when you consider over 10m people are within an hour's drive.
But realistically I think 30 to 35,000 might be their ceiling.
We'll have to see I guess as we're talking decades.
It'll take two years to do the Kop at least. Another 2 years to do the Tech end.
They might be over 20,000 then maybe.
I think they'll redesign the Kop for higher capacity also. 5000 isn't much.
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I guarantee you they will.It categorically will not be easy for them to attract fans from those regions.
I'm not saying millions just some small %. They'll obviously get a higher % from the Wrexham area and North Wales.
They'll have access to the data so they'll know the geographic spread of their UK fans. I bet they already have fans across the UK and Ireland.
Alex99
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It's delusional. They're quite literally not going to be picking up tens of thousands of matchgoing fans from regions with well-established clubs with their own, large local followings.I guarantee you they will.
I'm not saying millions just some small %. They'll obviously get a higher % from the Wrexham area and North Wales.
They'll have access to the data so they'll know the geographic spread of their UK fans. I bet they already have fans across the UK and Ireland.
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I don't think it's delusional to say they'll attract 10 to 20,000 fans out of over 10m people.It's delusional. They're quite literally not going to be picking up tens of thousands of matchgoing fans from regions with well-established clubs with their own, large local followings.
That's all they need really.
100,000 babies are born a year from that 10m.
You only need to attract 1% a year for 10 to 20 years.
It's definitely possible.
Eriku
Full Member
Indeed. It’s not as if you’re saying they’ll displace the teams in the region.I don't think it's delusional to say they'll attract 10 to 20,000 fans out of over 10m people.
That's all they need really.
100,000 babies are born a year from that 10m.
You only need to attract 1% a year for 10 to 20 years.
It's definitely possible.
Alex99
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They aren't going to have anywhere near the same attention paid to them in 10 to 20 years though. They're a novelty at the moment.I don't think it's delusional to say they'll attract 10 to 20,000 fans out of over 10m people.
That's all they need really.
100,000 babies are born a year from that 10m.
You only need to attract 1% a year for 10 to 20 years.
It's definitely possible.
It's also not just 20,000 fans. It's 20,000 fans willing to travel to Wrexham to watch them every other week.
They're a long way off being ready for the PL, and they'll very likely need a lot more investment that R&R can't provide to get there. A 40,000+ capacity stadium is just bonkers for a club of their size. Even a 30,000 stadium could find itself only two thirds full as the novelty starts to wear off.
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We'll have to see I guess.They aren't going to have anywhere near the same attention paid to them in 10 to 20 years though. They're a novelty at the moment.
It's also not just 20,000 fans. It's 20,000 fans willing to travel to Wrexham to watch them every other week.
They're a long way off being ready for the PL, and they'll very likely need a lot more investment that R&R can't provide to get there. A 40,000+ capacity stadium is just bonkers for a club of their size. Even a 30,000 stadium could find itself only two thirds full as the novelty starts to wear off.
The statistical distribution won't be "20,000 fans travelling to Wrexham every other week".
A segment will be season ticket holders, another segment will be once a month, another a few times a year. You'll have further afield fans from Ireland, Scotland, other parts of England who'll go once or twice a year etc.. There'll be Americans and Canadians also who might go once in their lifetime.
There's no precedent to this really so it's hard to gauge. Hollywood has never mixed with English football before.
It's a moot point anyway as I think they'll scale up based on demand.
They're not just building a 45,000 stadium next year.
Moston Red
Formerly Giggs1973
I live in a village just outside Wrexham that borders England. Up until recently the majority of people supported Liverpool, All life long Liverpool fans, now they're suddenly life long Wrexham fans (often based on the fact their Dad and Grandad supported Wrexham)....very funny. Not many United fans round here, Im in the minority.
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People will wank about them till they feck up club who they support.
Chipper
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Exactly. Due to who they are they managed to get the documentary which has paid well, and the documentary itself spawned larger sponsorship deals compared to many of the clubs around them.I dont know. Football league clubs are still subject to FFP right? Wrexham get around it because their revenues are enormous for a club that far down the pyramid.
An oil baron would have to do a City and make up a bunch of BS overpriced sponsorship deals to replicate what Wrexham have done.
That can't truly be replicated. Nobody else in non-league can do the documentary idea in the future with as much success, that market has been cornered now. They wouldn't have the Hollywood razzmatazz either.
Non-league football is the wild west, with very little financial regulation and loads of owners have pumped money into clubs over time albeit no oil barons. They tend to only be able to make it so far once they hit the football league though, especially now they do encounter those FFP rules. See Salford, Forest Green Rovers etc.
You'd have to put a load of money into a club, and for the club to start generating relatively big cash itself on the back of it before or as soon as it hit League Two. Maybe someone could come up with a different way to do it the future but I don't know what that could be.
Helps too that they were a large club for non-league football with a bit of a dormant existing fanbase. It's not all new fans, a lot who started to stay away will have come back and boosted the finances too. Without unique revenue streams that's the best any oil baron could hope for really. Maybe a team like Luton when they were down there, Stockport or Notts County too. Oldham now, but they're not going to get all the same large sponsorships that Wrexham have been able to secure, nowhere near it.
Alex99
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Yes, there's no precedent for a side to suddenly gain a massive influx of fans in the manner you're describing. Unless they can actually find themselves competing for the PL title, which is simply not happening bar a complete Leicester-esque miracle, there is going to be an obvious cap on how many fans actually attend matches there.We'll have to see I guess.
The statistical distribution won't be "20,000 fans travelling to Wrexham every other week".
A segment will be season ticket holders, another segment will be once a month, another a few times a year. You'll have further afield fans from Ireland, Scotland, other parts of England who'll go once or twice a year etc.. There'll be Americans and Canadians also who might go once in their lifetime.
There's no precedent to this really so it's hard to gauge. Hollywood has never mixed with English football before.
It's a moot point anyway as I think they'll scale up based on demand.
They're not just building a 45,000 stadium next year.
As a comparison, Cardiff are in the Championship with a stadium that can hold about 33,000. There are no "big" teams in the locality to provide competition for fans, only similarly "local" fan bases like Swansea and Bristol. They basically have a monopoly on South East Wales, and there are 1,500,000 people in the wider-Cardiff region alone. Their average attendance this year was 21,000, it was around 19,000 the two years before that. They were only selling out their stadium in the Premier League.
Wrexham are competing with United, Liverpool, Everton and City right on their doorstep. I think 30,000 is going to be their limit, and that's with Premier League football.
UnrelatedPsuedo
I pity the poor fool who stinks like I do!
No chance. Fantasy talk. They will not attract a ‘small % of ten million’ people to go to Wrexham. For tens of thousands of people to not support who their parents and school mates support, then start going to Wales. Never happening.I guarantee you they will.
I'm not saying millions just some small %. They'll obviously get a higher % from the Wrexham area and North Wales.
They'll have access to the data so they'll know the geographic spread of their UK fans. I bet they already have fans across the UK and Ireland.
Do you live in England? Or, more importantly, that 100km east of Wrexham stretch?
Their fans will come from Overseas, FIFA and Football Manager before they ever come from geography.
Alex99
Rehab's Pete Doherty
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Wrexham, at the height of their Disney+ popularity this season, when tickets for any game should be a hot commodity, weren't even selling out their cup games, and had less than 5,000 turn up for one of them.No chance. Fantasy talk. They will not attract a ‘small % of ten million’ people to go to Wrexham. For tens of thousands of people to not support who their parents and school mates support, then start going to Wales. Never happening.
Do you live in England? Or, more importantly, that 100km east of Wrexham stretch?
Their fans will come from Overseas, FIFA and Football Manager before they ever come from geography.
There's also the fact that at some point the novelty will wear off. Get stuck in League One (and/or the Championship) for a few seasons and they become just another club at that level, regardless of who their owners are.
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Salford are a case in point.Exactly. Due to who they are they managed to get the documentary which has paid well, and the documentary itself spawned larger sponsorship deals compared to many of the clubs around them.
That can't truly be replicated. Nobody else in non-league can do the documentary idea in the future with as much success, that market has been cornered now. They wouldn't have the Hollywood razzmatazz either.
Non-league football is the wild west, with very little financial regulation and loads of owners have pumped money into clubs over time albeit no oil barons. They tend to only be able to make it so far once they hit the football league though, especially now they do encounter those FFP rules. See Salford, Forest Green Rovers etc.
You'd have to put a load of money into a club, and for the club to start generating relatively big cash itself on the back of it before or as soon as it hit League Two. Maybe someone could come up with a different way to do it the future but I don't know what that could be.
Helps too that they were a large club for non-league football with a bit of a dormant existing fanbase. It's not all new fans, a lot who started to stay away will have come back and boosted the finances too. Without unique revenue streams that's the best any oil baron could hope for really. Maybe a team like Luton when they were down there, Stockport or Notts County too. Oldham now, but they're not going to get all the same large sponsorships that Wrexham have been able to secure, nowhere near it.
They don't have the fan base or revenue to progress anymore.
I'm Irish but I follow English football and I've lived and worked in England.No chance. Fantasy talk. They will not attract a ‘small % of ten million’ people to go to Wrexham. For tens of thousands of people to not support who their parents and school mates support, then start going to Wales. Never happening.
Do you live in England? Or, more importantly, that 100km east of Wrexham stretch?
Their fans will come from Overseas, FIFA and Football Manager before they ever come from geography.
In general the bigger PL teams will attract fans from all over the UK and Ireland and the smaller PL teams mostly only attract fans locally.
For example Liverpool and Man Utd fans come from everywhere but I imagine most Burnley or Ipswich fans come from their locality.
I can see Wrexham as falling somewhere in between. Most of their fans will be local but they'll definitely attract fans from across the UK and Ireland.
There's no real precedent for this so it's impossible to predict but Wrexham FC will have access to all the data for membership and iFollow so they'll know more than any of us.
That's the misleading thing about the article's headline. In the actual article, they say that they're designing things in a way that the stadium could ultimately be expanded to a capacity of 45-55K. It doesn't say at all that they're aiming for that right away or that they think it's a realistic target. They've just adopted a modular approach to expansion that could lead there, but could also stop anywhere along the way. It seems pretty sensible and pretty far removed from the 'Wrexham owners aim for up to 55,000-capacity Racecourse' headline.It's a moot point anyway as I think they'll scale up based on demand.
They're not just building a 45,000 stadium next year.
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