He was a sure a bet as you could get for a quality PL midfielder with years ahead of him.
The Casemiro deal was so bad for us.
The Casemiro deal was so bad for us.
Declan Rice | Arsenal £105m player
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
He has been good but not in the Casemiro role. He is not that good as a pure DM. Thomas Partey has been key to give him more freedom in the last games.
He is shifted to the #8 role since Havertz moved to forward and Jorginho/Partey in midfield for the #6.
His performances at DM were great. His progressive passing isn’t as good as Partey’s but you could say the same for any 6 in the league barring Rodri. He did truly top class job of shielding our defence earlier in the season.
Great performance again. He's just so strong and powerful and technically is better than is often given credit for. Under Arteta, I have little doubt he will develop the offensive side of his game even more. He is looking like he really can be a 6 or 8 depending on squad availability and match circumstances. What a signing he's been for us, such a shame Partey has been missing all season.
No brainer signing that Fergie would have been all over, best domestic player available in a position that needed improvement, great age and physical profile, but hey lets chase Frenkie De Jong for 2 years even though he doesn't want to come here and causes as many tactical problems as he solves anyway.
Oh nice, page 41.
Still find it weird people don't rate him.
It is the usual early stance assumed "another overrated English player" then the unwillingness to change their opinion with increasingly absurd qualifications to justify the stance.
Plus half the forum seems to be Irish, and in Ireland we know him to be a cnut.
He's obviously overrated. He's only just surpassed Xhakas output from last season and hasn't really performed in the big games, in the big cup competitions. He is obvious a top player, but £105m is no where near justified so far and people keep saying it was - ergo, overrated.
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Is output measured by only goals and assists? He already surpassed Xhaka in that despite Xhaka playing higher up the pitch. But Rice also completely outperformed Xhaka defensively and he's the reason why we look so dominant and have best defensive record in the league. Its also probably why we haven't conceded a goal against City this season whilst we shipped 7 last.
Defensive stats Rice 23/24 - Xhaka 22/23:
Tackles made: 79 - 34
Interceptions: 43 - 15
Duels won: 150 - 130
Ball recoveries: 172 - 152
Rice played in midfield this entire year without Partey. If Xhaka stayed and Partey was injured we would be to around the 70-75 point mark at best.
We looked so much more solid and dominant in games this year. Last year, we played some good football, but if Partey was missing or we were put under pressure we always looked likely to concede.
So what you’re saying is, he surpassed Xhaka’s output (in his best ever season for us playing as our left 8) despite Rice playing 2/3 of the season as our holding midfielder?
Got it.
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Only from the perspective the reason he was lauded as such a steal, was he would also be the 8. I see him a pure 6, capable of playing 8, but you're not gonna want him as 8 in your biggest games. Rice was a good reason you dropped points against Villa, so it's swings and roundabouts. I also think that second game against City, as a team you decided to go full low block, so I wouldn't attribute too much to him.
I'm saying for a 105m, the return in the squad is pretty average, he is a very good 6, but you'll likely have to spend big again in midfield this summer to go another step further (rumours Guimaraes, etc).
His return in the squad hasn’t been average though.
When he’s played as a 6 he contributed to us conceding the fewest goals in the league by a fair distance.
When he’s played as an 8 he’s exceeded Xhaka’s output from last season despite playing only playing further up the pitch in a third of our games.
He’s put in numerous MOTM performances, despite sharing the pitch with Odegaard / Saka / Saliba etc plus the opposition players.
And those are just the numbers. If you actually, you know, watch him play, it’s pretty clear that he hasn’t been average.
I'm not saying he's average, the context has always been as an £105m player. As I said, you'll still need to invest to go further in the league and cups. He gets lauded as a Robson or a Keane, but in big games he's not shown he's that kind of player...yet.
Fair enough, we’ll have to agree to disagree.
Grealish, Enzo and Caicedo all cost £100m+. I’m not really concerned about the price tag seeing as Rice was about as close to a sure thing as you can get.
I agree that we’ll have to invest to go further… but that’s always the case, isn’t it? And if we do buy someone like Guimaraes (which would be ideal) they’ll cost roughly the same amount and probably play as a 6 so Rice can remain where he is.
I guess what I find a little strange is that you have a player who is rated by pretty much every professional footballer and coach, who is still being pined over by his old club, has improved his current club by all metrics, is a lynchpin in the England team, is available for selection in virtually every game… and he’s being picked apart by fans of the club that could probably benefit from his presence in their team the most.
You must have not watched many Arsenal games this season. Hasn't performed in big games? You can't be serious with this, he has been outstanding for almost all the big games bar the odd one. Hence why he has been our best player in most of those games. Lost count how many man of the match he has won.
If we go on to win the title he probably is favourite to win player of the season award (Odegaard is the only Arsenal player who might edge him), and deservedly so, he has been that good. Overrated indeed.
IF (a big IF) we win the league, POTS should be Odegaard. He has been sensational. Although Rice being English may sway it in his favour.
Your last paragraph is fair. I would love to have him in the team and I didnt take his availability into account, which is gold dust. I personally think he needs to further to justify the price tag and really live up to the plaudits currently.
Yeah, they're great examples of not being worth the money, but in an extreme sense. Maybe I'm projecting the financial side from the perspective of a team that needs a rebuild, but your point about Guimaraes irks me for an 105m player. For what it's worth I think that pairing would be a fantastic double pivot.
My point was he's not the Keane or Robson dragging a team to victory in big games and personally would expect that from a 100m player, he just hasn't done it. Take the Villa and Bayern games though, pivotal points in your season and I think he should be doing more based on how much smoke gets blown up his arse. Don't get me wrong, he's done it in smaller games, but they're not what separates top players.
Sure, if you win the league, I'll yield my point and take it all back.
Overrated is a pointless word. He can give Arsenal 8-10 years of high level midfield player, giving them stability in a key position, for that £105m is a bargain.
I watched your games this season as well as Leverkusen's. Xhaka is still the better player for a quarter of the price, and is the heartbeat of a team about to make history.
Since the start of 2024 in the league we have won 14 drawn 1 and just lost 1 game (Villa). He wasnt even particularly bad in that game, just not his usual outstanding performance. He has been so consistent that those games are very rare. Unless you expect 100m players to be faultless in 100% of their games, which of course is impossible. He was good against Bayern (a team that could be in a Champions League final in a few days time), Bayern were just a bit better than us, no shame in that.
You mentioned the odd games where you thought he wasn't great but what about all the other games he played great. As for big games, the main difference between last season has been how solid we have looked. That has been mostly due to Rice and his ability to snuff out danger before it reached our penalty. Watch the City game at the Emirates for example, he was a one man wall in the midfield. City registered their least shots since Pep took over. That wasn't all down to Rice, but a lot of it was. We had the same defensive players as last season but as soon as he was introduced we went up a level defensively.
Last season we played City 3 times, lost convincingly all 3. This season we played them again 3 times, lost none. In all those games Rice was probably man of the match. He was great in the Liverpool games, Man Utd game, Chelsea games...all big games I would say.
Xhaka had his best ever year at Arsenal last season but still was making quite a few mistakes. Defensively always has a mistake in him. Whether that was diving in and giving away a needless free kick or dallying on the ball and losing possession. Rice wins a lot of duels cleanly, it's why he has so few yellow cards let alone reds. Xhaka wasn't usually far away from a sending off.
Defensively there is no contest, Rice is by far the better player in this area. Last season fortunately we had Partey and he was the man that usually won the ball back in midfield. When Partey wasn't there or had an off game Xhaka struggled massively. Sure Xhaka done his bit but nothing expectional and anyone who regularly watched Arsenal will tell you this. What Xhaka was good at last season was his offensive output. Spraying passes about, making runs into the box, getting shots off etc. Chipping in with goals and assists. Surprisingly even in this department Rice has proven to be better. Rice has played most games as a DM for us, yet he has better goals, assists, well basically most offensive stats.
If you think Xhaka is a better player than Rice that is your opinion and I can't say it is wrong but I will be surprised if there is even a single Arsenal supporter who shares this opinion. I personally would take Rice on 1 leg than Xhaka in top form.
Odegaard has been sensational and I wouldn't have a problem with that too. Just think Rice shades it for me. Odegaard has been fairly consistent for us but has had a few more games where he wasn't at his best. Lets say maybe he was great in 90% of games where Rice was in 95%. Incredibly consistent players for us this season so hard to choose between them.
Was my number 1 target for us. As sure a transformative signing as there can be, wanted us to sign him so badly. But of course what can I do other than hope and pray? People in power at the club thought he wasn’t good enough and so did Caf. Clueless the board clueless the manager clueless the Caf.
No, I don't expect them to be faultless but that villa game he dropped the ball massively and I expect my 100m players to be better in pivotal games. Again, cool if you want to brush off the Bayern result, but that's probably their worst team in a long time and will probably win nothing this season.
I do think he's been great over a 38 game season, but there's still massive question marks in the big moments for me. Agreed, he was good in all those games, but they're not the highest pressure moments - especially against us and Chelsea, we're both absolute clown shows this season.
Anyway, I'll likely be eating my words when he absolutely smashes us to bits on Sunday, so feel to rub my face in it then
This guy haa a great engine. Covers a lot of ground cutting off lanes, pretty tidy with the ball and has added to his attacking skills as well. He is currently sitting on the same number of assists as Odegaard in the PL I believe. Very happy with his first season! Was worried about the price tag, but in today's crazy market he was worth it.
Such a shame Arsenal continue to pick him. Shame on them. But that’s a different conversation
I think that the player would have moved him/himself with the club making decent money in return to S.A if it was construed to be a possible liability last summer. Let's see if they try to offload him this summer but my guess is they won't. Different discussion indeed.
We will likely sign a long term partner for Rice this summer. We need someone who has a great passing range preferably. I am not sure of the players I have heard rumoured.
Wonder if a Zubimendi would work or if he is a bit similar to Rice.
We will likely sign a long term partner for Rice this summer. We need someone who has a great passing range preferably. I am not sure of the players I have heard rumoured.
Wonder if a Zubimendi would work or if he is a bit similar to Rice.
All depends what you want. If you want Rice to play 8 more often than not, Zubimendi/Luiz would be a good buy. If you want to keep him at 6 more often than not, you should be going for Guimaraes and players a bit more forward thinking.
My opinion would be the latter.
If anything Mendy's case has shown us is that innocent till guilty. Now unless Partey has an obvious guilt like Greenwood did then you have a point (I am ignorant on that).
That's a stupid thing to say. If you don't know about it, you can't comment and say sorry i'm ignorant. All that is needed to know is 3 clicks away.
I hope we find somebody to replace him and ship his ass to Saudi Arabia or wherever the feck he ends up.
If I don't know about it obviously I'm going to comment and say I'm ignorant and be honest about it.
Even without this issue I've found Partey to be poor this season. Regularly gives the ball away in stupid places, misplaces passes. He's a crock at this point.
Pretty good analysis, cheers @MalBot
He was not good against Bayern. You can't get shown up by Goretzka and Laimer and claim it's a good performance. No need to inflate every performance.
I would prefer to see him out too. I have for two years now, but I would think that the off the field stuff is probably not much of a consideration at this point for the club whether he leaves or not. They have done their due diligence on this.
As a side point, I see S.A as a great safe haven for misbehaving players.
I find it genuinely insane how quiet the media has been about this one.
Selective outrage indeed.
“Declan Rice, we got him half price” is a great piss taking chant. Even though I hate the cadence of that chant becoming a staple of every single ground in the country.
I honestly think that's a good thing. It just needs to play itself out in the courts away from all the fanfare. When...if there is a trial, the press can cover it at that time.