Borys
Statistics Wizard
I am against because he will run young players into the ground very soon.
It's nothing but blind faith at this point. There are zero signs that we're going in the right direction under his coaching.On what merits should he keep the job? He has been here for two seasons, it's not like he hasn't been given time.
What does standing by him until December and sacking him achieve though. It just shows the players you’ll take a bit longer to make a decision and do the same thing anyway. If you want to stand by the manager you have to do so for at least a couple of seasons which is pretty untenable and unthinkable after this season.Or, you know, they could stand by him, do what I have suggested and call out the players telling them it is up to them to prove they deserve their place in the team and that they are the talent they believe themselves to be.
I’d make a compromise and say that if getting rid of Ten Hag guaranteed us getting rid of Rashford, I’d probably bite your hand off
I am. It is shambolic. Which is why I consider it an unpopular opinion to not sack Ten Hag.We're in a position to not be in the 3rd tier of European football next season. Think about that for a moment.
My entire point is that for a change, let's back the manager when it is maybe wiser to sack them and get rid of the players who have led us to this point under various managers. Think of the performances (or lack of it) from Rashford or Maguire under Ole/Rangnick and yet they continue to be part of the team. On top of that, Rashford is now one of the highest paid player of the club. The same players have been routinely raising their games when needed and not having the motivation or quality to do it when the going gets tough. What message are we constantly sending to the likes of Rashford who will be under a 5th (!) permanent manager if we sack Ten Hag?Substitute the players that left and all of your points apply to last season. Why continue with the current manager if we already know the outcome? We don't know what a new manager will bring. Sure, we can speculate, but there are several new factors that will play a big part in how the new manager handles us. Ownership. Actual football people running the club for once.
Don't think you fully understood the point you've quoted here. I'm saying that if we don't sack Ten Hag, the best case scenario is that we finally get the sort of performances we hoped or expected this season. Or the situation would be toxic and we sack him around October-December.This makes no sense. Why would we sack a manager with a proper functioning team? Your basically saying there are no better alternatives now so let's stick with him until October-December and then hope for a new manager bounce. What top manager is going to be available in that period that is not available this summer?
I don't disagree at all. I'm just putting in a contrary opinion that we've been through this situation under other managers too. Similar attitude or disciplinary issues, similar downing of tools, similar Rashford performances (yes, I've had it with him) and similar injured players. Maybe this one time, we give the manager the sort of leeway we've given many of these players. Rashford has scored 6 open play goals this season and yet there's hardly any outrage in the media to kick him out of the club. Because it must be the manager, right? It always is the manager and the directors and the owners. When will it be solely the players and big earners at that?I think the writing is on the wall with ETH. This club is in a shambles. It was in a shambles before ETH was hired. He was supposed to be the one to start the rebuild. His signings have been largely disappointing. Apart from a few new players and getting rid of a few, I see no improvement in our style of play, consistency, or results. In fact, you can argue we are worse off now than we were when any of the past 3 managers were in charge. 4 if you count Rangnick. I see no compelling reason to continue into next season with ETH as manager.
As I take it, this idea basically amounts to:So the idea of keeping him to spite the players is broken at the outset.
"December" is just another moving target.What does standing by him until December and sacking him achieve though. It just shows the players you’ll take a bit longer to make a decision and do the same thing anyway. If you want to stand by the manager you have to do so for at least a couple of seasons which is pretty untenable and unthinkable after this season.
If the club want to show players things have changed then they need to stop paying out huge wages, stop renewing contracts and be prepared to move on from players quicker.
Acknowledging that your opinion is unpopular isn't a "get out of jail free" card when people criticize itI am. It is shambolic. Which is why I consider it an unpopular opinion to not sack Ten Hag.
Completely agree and the bolder part could be the first step in the right direction. Not getting rid of the players only shows that you will accept mediocrity, under-performance and bad attitudes. No matter the manager; if he has to contend with what set-up, they’re feckedWhat does standing by him until December and sacking him achieve though. It just shows the players you’ll take a bit longer to make a decision and do the same thing anyway. If you want to stand by the manager you have to do so for at least a couple of seasons which is pretty untenable and unthinkable after this season.
If the club want to show players things have changed then they need to stop paying out huge wages, stop renewing contracts and be prepared to move on from players quicker.
They have an ideal opportunity as so many are out of contract over next two years, how they deal with that will be a big indication of if and how much things have changed.Completely agree and the bolder part could be the first step in the right direction. Not getting rid of the players only shows that you will accept mediocrity, under-performance and bad attitudes. No matter the manager; if he has to contend with what set-up, they’re fecked
Not saying that my post or opinion is above criticism. I’m agreeing that it’s shambolic season. Despite that, I’m considering the possibility of not sacking the manager and laying out reasons why I believe that. I can fully understand if other fans don’t agree with it.Acknowledging that your opinion is unpopular isn't a "get out of jail free" card when people criticize it
Absolutely spot on. Great post.They have an ideal opportunity as so many are out of contract over next two years, how they deal with that will be a big indication of if and how much things have changed.
I don’t think there is any issue with sacking managers, most of ours have been given way more than they’d get at any other top club and most wouldn’t have even been given as much time by like of Spurs.
Spurs would sack ETH for this season so no one will bat an eyelid when we do. What has to change is only the manager being accountable. Woodward wasn’t, Arnold and Murtough were part of that regime but got promotions for it. The list of players is too long to go into. The club now has to show that everyone is accountable, has to demonstrate they are worth what they are paid and are dispensable if they don’t.
Haven't they done this to a certain extent by being quite open that most of the squad would be sold for the right offer. I can't remember seeing any direct quotes (though that would be quite shocking) but most reputable outlets have reported that the only ones that United wouldn't be open to selling were Garnacho, Mainoo and Hojlund.Or, you know, they could stand by him, do what I have suggested and call out the players telling them it is up to them to prove they deserve their place in the team and that they are the talent they believe themselves to be.
Post bookmarked.Mark my words. This time next year we would be discussing how some idiots wanted him out this time last year.
I'd say we've largely backed the managers given the amount of money the club has spent on new players. Granted, they may not have gotten all of their #1 targets or been allowed to bin certain players, but ETH has been backed financially in the summer windows at least. The problem is, FFP has now caught up with us. That was to be expected. ETH got his #1 winger, his #1 CB, and his #1 keeper. He didn't get his #1 MF but that is not due to Barcelona not wanted or agreeing to sell him to us. By all accounts, the player rejected us. We ended up with a last resort hasbeen who's legs are gone.I am. It is shambolic. Which is why I consider it an unpopular opinion to not sack Ten Hag.
My entire point is that for a change, let's back the manager when it is maybe wiser to sack them and get rid of the players who have led us to this point under various managers. Think of the performances (or lack of it) from Rashford or Maguire under Ole/Rangnick and yet they continue to be part of the team. On top of that, Rashford is now one of the highest paid player of the club. The same players have been routinely raising their games when needed and not having the motivation or quality to do it when the going gets tough. What message are we constantly sending to the likes of Rashford who will be under a 5th (!) permanent manager if we sack Ten Hag?
Don't think you fully understood the point you've quoted here. I'm saying that if we don't sack Ten Hag, the best case scenario is that we finally get the sort of performances we hoped or expected this season. Or the situation would be toxic and we sack him around October-December.
Regarding availability of managers, I don't think that should be an issue. There's no outstanding candidate available right now and there may not be one in the middle of the season. Despite everything, we will still retain a pull where we can get managers to leave their jobs and join us.
I don't disagree at all. I'm just putting in a contrary opinion that we've been through this situation under other managers too. Similar attitude or disciplinary issues, similar downing of tools, similar Rashford performances (yes, I've had it with him) and similar injured players. Maybe this one time, we give the manager the sort of leeway we've given many of these players. Rashford has scored 6 open play goals this season and yet there's hardly any outrage in the media to kick him out of the club. Because it must be the manager, right? It always is the manager and the directors and the owners. When will it be solely the players and big earners at that?
Any big club which finishes outside the top 6 has had a shambolic season. It's easy to think with blinkered eyes but the situation for Arteta at Arsenal was incredibly toxic. And a lot of the underperforming and overpaid players were signings under him. I'm not a fan of the 'because it happened for them, it will happen for us' argument. Ultimately, they wanted a change of culture under the same manager who started the project and despite an finishing 8th in 19/20, then 8th in 20/21 and then 5th in 21/22, this is where they are. It's easy to sack a manager when the situation is toxic and there seems to be no upside. But if we showed the faith in Ten Hag being a good coach, give him the benefit of the doubt for this season. Just this one time, maybe we don't sack the manager even when it seems blatantly obvious and tell the players that it's them and get them out one way or the other.
It's this.I wouldn't be against keeping him one more season (with zero say in transfers this summer) if he hadn't insisted on conceding 20 shots every game for nearly the whole season.
That is an unworkable style of play in the PL and he can't seem to see it.
Mark my words. This time next year we would be discussing how some idiots wanted him out this time last year.
Yes, exactly. I can't imagine the situation if he stays during the summer. It's so easy to convince yourself that he's doing a good job as long as there's no actual football being played.You can tell it's been over 48 hours since we last played, with these types of posts being made again.
We were walked through in midfield in the Ole and Rangnick reigns too leading to Rangnick saying we needed open heart surgery.It's this.
Any team can have a lot of injury problems and it does cause big problems. But we've been walked through in midfield from day 1, when we DID have everyone available.
A lot of the signings initially looked good then 18months later literally every one of them looks a poor choice. From Casemiro dropping worrying levels, to Martinez having multiple long spells out. To Malachia disappearing for a whole year, to the woeful loanees.
It's hard to argue that it'd have been a lot more fun keeping Ole and Ronaldo!
Who are all these clowns and bad eggs, out of interest? Half the squad have only been in the team since Ten Hag joined.Ive always been in the 'give him til the end of his contract' camp.. But then the end of this season looks like theres no way back for him, the players seemingly have just decided they are done playing for him. If they get rid of the manager, I feel like the players have won again. Once they have to knuckle down and work under pressure they just blame everyone else and throw him under the bus, its happened too much now to be a coincidence.
I feel if INEOS are going to be ruthless with the manager, they need to do the same with players. If theres lads have downed tools & are hanging about just to see if the manager goes.. they should bin those lads aswell.
EtH being able to get rid of alot of the clowns/ bad eggs in the squad, and him not being plagued with injures again (surely the same amount cant happen again ) , it should give him a fighting chance next season. If we are still awful, by all means, time for him to go aswell.
But I fear if these players have truly downed tools and clocked off for the rest of the season, and we dont get any thing from these last 3 games, INEOS will pull the trigger.
Hi Erik!Mark my words. This time next year we would be discussing how some idiots wanted him out this time last year.
You've identified what i fear will happen and the never ending cycle of the past 11 years or so that people don't seem to acknowledge. When Rashford scores 20 goals next season, or Luke Shaw actually remains available and plays half decent it will all be the previous manager's fault. The season after that however...it begins again. Hopefully that won't be the case but unless there's a culture change or a change in the quality of the players don't be surprised if it does.
- We play well next season but not well enough to challenge for the title. Most probably qualify for the Champions League.
- A few players like Varane, Martial, Eriksen, etc., leave the club.
- One of the new signings performs well, and we think that the culture is changing.
- Rashford scores 20+ goals in the season.
- Players suddenly describe the mood as more positive, and they have found 'smiles on their faces.'
- The subsequent season, we are exactly in the same situation we are now, where the same players are either out of form, injured, or have just given up.
We can all use our eyes when watching the players to know who isnt good enough and who cant be arsed. As for all the leaks / toxic elements / player power etc. behind the scenes, im sure theres plenty there , including EtH) who know who they are.Who are all these clowns and bad eggs, out of interest? Half the squad have only been in the team since Ten Hag joined.
I'm all for binning players who aren't good enough and/or have poor attitudes. But what bothers me is how it's so often a case of blaming one side or the other, like having a couple bad eggs somehow absolves the manager of all blame and gifts him immunity to being held accountable by losing his job.We can all use our eyes when watching the players to know who isnt good enough and who cant be arsed. As for all the leaks / toxic elements / player power etc. behind the scenes, im sure theres plenty there , including EtH) who know who they are.
Forget about Ten Hag though, if Utd as a club cant root out the problems mentioned, they'll go nowhere fast. And the same will happen to the replacement. rinse repeat. Id rather we had someone stay and get a go at changing the culture and standards with INEOS
Yes...but why should ETH be a part of this?Id rather we had someone stay and get a go at changing the culture and standards with INEOS
Yes, it would change things. But I really think he’ll be gone next summer if Ten Hag stays.What if that wasn't true at all, would your position change? Because keeping Ten Hag most definitely will not mean getting rid of the likes of Rashford sooner.
We’re in a bad place mate for sure.Although you are likely right (ie, there is no perfect option), surely you have to try. Especially as keeping and sacking are really the only two ways forward here. If I was the decision maker I think I’d be trying to create a line on the sand, a complete break with the last season and so I’d get rid, but I admit it’s not a risk free option. Nothing in football is.
Why? He's picked him every time he could, no matter the circumstances. Head coach will not be deciding who is sold anymore either way.Yes, it would change things. But I really think he’ll be gone next summer if Ten Hag stays.
Well I'm sure you can appreciate that only either keeping Ten Hag or hiring a manager from the Championship isn't going to be agreed upon as a good approach by most people.That’s what I meant by ‘if we still see fit’.
I’d get behind us appointing him this summer, but other than that, keeping Ten Hag comfortably beats every other option for me.
There's the mad use of that word again. And we can all see where it's going. Nowhere.I just think he deserves another season and want to see where it’s going.
So you rate his transfer dealings so low that you thought our fully fit first 11 was going to struggle for top 8 but you think he "deserves" another season? I'm honestly convinced no other fanbase is like this.Maybe I’m in a different position from everyone else as at the start of the season I thought we’d struggle for top 8. Even with a fully fit first 11. As a collection of players it’s just not been great planning. Just from watching it’s clear to see that some just either don’t have the ability or intelligence to play at the lvl required of a top team.
Hopefully now with a proper structure we will start to recruit with purpose and thought instead of just throwing money at players to be a band aid.
I just think he deserves another season and want to see where it’s going. Add to the fact there aren’t any stand out options and even if there was no one can fix this without an influx of new players.
Boggles the mind. What's even more bizarre is him being given more leeway and tolerance than anyone else post-Fergie.He's atrocious and people want to waste another season on him?
Unbelievable.