“United don’t even fancy it” - Carragher

SAFMUTD

Full Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
5,735
It’s coming from their agenda and delusional mind.

Before the season started, none think we can achieve 85 points, max is 80 points. And now all of sudden some people think we can achieve the 85 points if we don’t then it’s called ‘’missing big opportunity‘’.

This city team is even better than last season due to their defense and majority the players he still has are from 18/19 title which means there are enough experiences not just based on skills.
Firstly, the expectations change according to the results. Let's say we won the first 26 games and lose all the rest, you can't play the "at the begining of the season that's around the points that were expected". The situation matters, we were top of the league and we shit the bed. Of course odds were against us but that's no justification.

City being better than last season worths nothing since they werent the champions.

The fact is City haves a better squad which is better coached. We need to match them with better players and a better coach.
 

The United

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
3,020
This forum thrives on our failures, there’s nothing we love more than shitting on the team we supposedly support.
The OP makes this kind of thread at least once a week. He has some axe to grind on Ole with.
 

Jericho

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
360
On one hand I kind of agree. We're still a side in development after many years of massive squad upheaval and contradictory coaching styles and we weren't expected to be anywhere near where we are. And confidence has been a major issue for us. But on the other hand Carragher can go f**k himself.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
8,912
Firstly, the expectations change according to the results. Let's say we won the first 26 games and lose all the rest, you can't play the "at the begining of the season that's around the points that were expected". The situation matters, we were top of the league and we shit the bed. Of course odds were against us but that's no justification.
How the results were enough to change it? This is like Spurs fans who believed they were title challenger just because they were on top until mid December before they realised what the ceiling of the squad. The ceiling of our squad is basically 78 points to 80 points at max, anything above means we are punching above the ceiling and we are in the similar situation as Liverpool when they didn't have VVD, Fabinho & Allison.

City being better than last season worths nothing since they werent the champions.

The fact is City haves a better squad which is better coached. We need to match them with better players and a better coach.
City had 81 points last season mate. And Pep first season, he had 78 points. Their situations at that time were similar as us which defensive problem which clearly coaching alone wasn't enough to solve their defensive problem in 16/17 & 19/20 because they made improvement by signing defenders/keepers next following season and got better.
 
Last edited:

SAFMUTD

Full Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
5,735
How the results were enough to change it? This is like Spurs fans who believed they were title challenger just because they were on top until mid December before they realised what the ceiling of the squad. The ceiling of our squad is basically 78 points to 80 points at max, anything above means we are punching above the ceiling and we are in the similar situation as Liverpool when they didn't have VVD, Fabinho & Allison.
Do you think we have a better squad now that what we had in 2017/2018 with Mourinho? Because that season we got 81 points. If now after 300M spent we have a ceiling of around 78 to 80 points max then we have done pretty shitty with the players bought or simply the manager is not getting the best out of them.

City had 81 points last season mate. And Pep first season, he had 78 points. Their situations at that time were similar as us which defensive problem which clearly coaching alone wasn't enough to solve their defensive problem in 16/17 & 19/20 because they made improvement by signing defenders/keepers next following season and got better.
City had a terrible last season by their standards under Pep, thats an accident season even. Still I dont get how this has anything to do with us?

You mean to say since Pep needed a bunch of players to fix their defense then it's ok that we are shitty in defense because Ole has only brought 2?
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
8,912
Do you think we have a better squad now that what we had in 2017/2018 with Mourinho? Because that season we got 81 points. If now after 300M spent we have a ceiling of around 78 to 80 points max then we have done pretty shitty with the players bought or simply the manager is not getting the best out of them.
When you said better, better in what?

That 17/18 squad was only good for one season wonder, what was the purpose? This 20/21 is better for longer term not just for one season. And I'm saying this because we had very good version Valencia & Smalling, prime Herrera, prime Matic, prime DDG, prime Mata and etc. Those players were in declined the next following season which common sense due to their age. Right now we have built a much better good age foundation squad for longer term not just for one season, Rashford, Martial, Bruno, Greenwood, Bissaka, Shaw, McTominay and etc.

City had a terrible last season by their standards under Pep, thats an accident season even. Still I dont get how this has anything to do with us?

You mean to say since Pep needed a bunch of players to fix their defense then it's ok that we are shitty in defense because Ole has only brought 2?
The point is their problems were defensively. He didn't solve it by coaching alone, he solved it by signing players. That's why his team improved and better.
 

SAFMUTD

Full Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
5,735
When you said better, better in what?

That 17/18 squad was only good for one season wonder, what was the purpose? This 20/21 is better for longer term not just for one season. And I'm saying this because we had very good version Valencia & Smalling, prime Herrera, prime Matic, prime DDG, prime Mata and etc. Those players were in declined the next following season which common sense due to their age. Right now we have built a much better good age foundation squad for longer term not just for one season like Rashford, Martial, Bruno, Greenwood, Bissaka, Shaw, McTominay and etc.
and better.
Most of those players were already in the team, still the fact that after 300M spent we havent been able to emulate that "one season wonder" is a clear statement of how stupid is to say we have improved.

The point is their problems were defensively. He didn't solve it by coaching alone, he solved it by signing players. That's why his team improved and better.
Ole has spent 145M on that defense and has brought 4 players. Surely we should be better than what we are? We are the 11th ranked defence this season.

I think we should have improved by now, or how many more millions and players do you think he'll need?
 

padzilla

Hipster
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
2,026
It's always jam tomorrow with United since Fergie left. "We have a young team" is the phrase most often used to explain away another rubbish performance or result. Not signing a decent centre half since Ole came to the club and not having the courage to drop De Gea despite one wretched display after another have nothing to do with building for the future.
 

Bebestation

Full Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
4,581
People who think Mourinho is better than Ole should go support a different team or a watch a different sport.

Not everything can be viewed by numbers only.

City were not a club in detriment and on the floor like United was for 10 years. There is progress at how the club is built and being utelises after ages and whether we win a title in the second season or not shouldnt be making 'fans' throst itchy.

Chill the eff out. We will get there either with Ole or another manager utilising the stability that Ole has built to make us a valuable exciting team to join after so long.

We are not winners every season, you have problems in your brain if you forget what happened in the last decade.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
8,912
Most of those players were already in the team, still the fact that after 300M spent we havent been able to emulate that "one season wonder" is a clear statement of how stupid is to say we have improved.
Rashford, Martial, McTominay & Shaw were below in pecking order of Sanchez, Mata, Fellaini, Herrera, Matic & Young. Mourinho regular players in 17/18 were in declined next following season, I know you are smart enough to understand what I meant between 17/18 & 20/21.

How can you already come out into conclusion we haven't been able to emulate that ''one season wonder''? We are still in our 22nd games. It's clear statement of how stupid your argument is when Mourinho spent more money than Ole and more net spent than Ole and still end up as going backwards because we need to rebuild the team again to replace his signings.

Ole has spent 145M on that defense and has brought 4 players. Surely we should be better than what we are? We are the 11th ranked defence this season.

I think we should have improved by now, or how many more millions and players do you think he'll need?
Why is that have anything to do with Man City solved their defensive problems and got better by signings their defensive players not coaching?
 

Bebestation

Full Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
4,581
Rashford, Martial, McTominay & Shaw were below in pecking order of Sanchez, Mata, Fellaini, Herrera, Matic & Young. Mourinho regular players in 17/18 were in declined next following season, I know you are smart enough to understand what I meant between 17/18 & 20/21.

How can you already come out into conclusion we haven't been able to emulate that ''one season wonder''? We are still in our 22nd games. It's clear statement of how stupid your argument is when Mourinho spent more money than Ole and more net spent than Ole.



Why is that have anything to do with Man City solved their defensive problems and got better by signings their defensive players not coaching?
Just dont bother mate. The guy is a pure accountant working on money and maths.

No manager in the world could fix a post Moyes, LVG and Mourinho team with 300 million. That is literally worth 3-4 players today to some degree; never mind things like James being pushed to a singing by Ryan Giggs.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
8,912
Just dont bother mate. The guy is a pure accountant working on money and maths.

No manager in the world could fix a post Moyes, LVG and Mourinho team with 300 million. That is literally worth 3-4 players today to some degree; never mind things like James being pushed to a singing by Ryan Giggs.
He even included Diallo & Pellistri in that 300m who haven't even play for first team but signed for future & development and he expects the money we spent on them to be part of the outcome this 20/21 mid season :houllier: The agenda is so strong.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
15,133
Location
Somewhere out there
And ignore all the close wins we could have easily drawn and that City themselves drew with Leeds and West Brom. It doesn't really work like that.

Once they've got up to speed after having no pre season like us they've been barely challenged.
You don’t have to “ignore” anything, if we’d won those 2 easy home games we’d be on course to stay with City for a long time in the race, due to their shit start.
That’s why it’s been called an opportunity. If City go and blintz the league from now to May that’s a different thing entirely, but there’s every chance they do finish on 86 or so points.
 

Son

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 24, 2019
Messages
519
I totally agree with it. Most united players lack the mentality to challenge for the title. We have argubly the best squad and squad depth but lacks title winning mentality.
City have a better squad period. In almost every position. We are easily behind them. Their players are more experienced too. Even the back-ups are more experienced than our first 11 for the most part.
 

RedStarUnited

Full Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
6,689
After 22 games City have 3 more points than last season and just 3 less than when they won the title in 18/19 (with 98 points).

Where is this idea that it's some big 'opportunity' coming from?

The fact remains, If we beat Sheffield United and Everton at home, we would be on the same points as them.
 

Devil77

Full Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
Messages
1,015
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
Most of those players were already in the team, still the fact that after 300M spent we havent been able to emulate that "one season wonder" is a clear statement of how stupid is to say we have improved.



Ole has spent 145M on that defense and has brought 4 players. Surely we should be better than what we are? We are the 11th ranked defence this season.

I think we should have improved by now, or how many more millions and players do you think he'll need?
You could argue that some of that blame should fall on DDG even though it’s Ole’s decision to play him. If the defenders allow three shots on goal for 90 minutes but all of those go in then that’s a goalkeeping issue.
 

redshaw

Full Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2015
Messages
5,814
We could fancy it as much as anyone but our defence is not up to the job so we'll see where we end up but needing to score 3-4 goals to win many of the games will see us come unstuck and this has already happened.
 

Bebestation

Full Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
4,581
The fact remains, If we beat Sheffield United and Everton at home, we would be on the same points as them.
To me whilst this is a short term negative it is a long term positive. We are getting closer and we just need a few more players (we have obvious gaps that need to be attended to) to help us settle and turn these occasional draws in to consistent wins.

A CB partner for Maguire, a RW, a ST not like Lukaku but like Haaland, addressing the GK issue soon, CDM and arguably a LCM.
 

Kostov

Full Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2017
Messages
6,659
Location
Skopje, Macedonia
Did anyone really think we are in the title race? Are we talking serious now? We've got a leaky defense, unreliable attack and without on form Pogba a sub par midfield. We were never winning the title with this current team.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
8,912
City have a better squad period. In almost every position. We are easily behind them. Their players are more experienced too. Even the back-ups are more experienced than our first 11 for the most part.
XI:
GK: Ederson
RB: Bissaka/Walker/Cancelo (50:50)
LB: Shaw
CB: Dias & Stones (Dias & Laporte/Maguire before the season started)
DM: Rodri
CM: Gundogan or Pogba (50:50)
AM: KDB or Bruno (50:50)
LW: Rashford/Sterling (50:50)
RW: Foden/Silva
ST: Cavani

Squad depth/Others:
Laporte/Ake > Bailly/Laporte
Walker/Mendy > Williams/Telles
Fernandinho/Silva/Mahrez/Torres/Aguero (ageing) > Matic/Donny/Martial/James/Mata

Only left back and striker we are currently better. The rest they are either better or some 50:50. Experiences, they are above us as well since they have bunch of squad from league title winner.
 

LuisNaniencia

Sky Sports called my bluff
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
9,849
Location
271.5 miles from Old Trafford
It's lazy punditry. We played really well against Everton and were simply let down by our goalkeeper. Apart from De Gea, I didn't see one player out there lacking desire.

If the comment was made after the Sheffield United game, it would hold some merit.
 

Nou_Camp99

what would Souness do?
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
6,144
Did anyone really think we are in the title race? Are we talking serious now? We've got a leaky defense, unreliable attack and without on form Pogba a sub par midfield. We were never winning the title with this current team.
Unreliable attack?

*Checks table*

Manchester United are the highest scorers in the league.

Why do people talk utter crap without even doing any research.

Our defence is the issue.
 

tenpoless

Full Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
6,835
Location
*Teleports behind you*
He speaks sense sometimes when it comes to United. The same way Neville speaks sense about Liverpool. I can't help but to think, outside of work they are high fiving, thinking they've fooled us all.
 

RedRonaldo

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Messages
12,756
It’s our typical cycle of performance really. Just when we are at our peak form and look set to win everything at sight, we would usually crumble out of nowhere and go on losing many points against anyone, it happened several times under Ole tenure already, it’s not surprising. However when are at the bottom of worst form, we usually would usually rebound out of nowhere and become best team for a while.
 

Pavl3n

Full Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
1,352
Solkjaer doesn't fancy it and it's rubbing off on the players.
I think he's surprised as much as anyone else that we found ourselves top of the league. It feels as if the team talk has always been 'doing a great job, we need to keep improving' during this season and should've changed to 'we are top of the league, let's go for it' once we were top. But it never changed and as soon as we were top, the team is in free fall. Or should I say the defence.
 

Siorac

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
19,908
Location
16th century
Unreliable attack?

*Checks table*

Manchester United are the highest scorers in the league.

Why do people talk utter crap without even doing any research.

Our defence is the issue.
'Unreliable' doesn't mean that it's shite or can't score. It means it's inconsistent and erratic, and the facts bear that out. We scored 15 of our 49 goals in just two games. We can run riot in one game and look completely toothless in the next. In that sense, the attack is very much unreliable even if defending is obviously a bigger issue right now.
 

Pogue Mahone

Poster of the year 2008 & 2020
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
109,441
Location
"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
Bit fecking thick to question our self-belief or will to win with the amount of times we’’ve come from behind to win this season. Against Everton it wasn’t a lack of desire that cost us it was a lack of composure (and/or a lack of a competent keeper)

Plus it’s ironic coming from Carragher, a Liverpool fan, after all the flat performances from them in recent weeks.
 

Harry Harries

Full Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
5,987
Location
UK, hun?
Our forward line definitely isn't 'there' yet, there's a reason why everyone has been clamouring for a Sancho/Haaland/Grealish. As @Siorac said, nearly a third of our goals came in two games (Liverpool scored 7 in one, and I'm sure City have scored 15 in three in fairness). Our defence is definitely the immediate point of concern though. Massive question marks over too many players and positions.

On topic; Carragher can get to feck. The fake laughed he forced out when Martin Tyler suggested United are competing for the title last night really pissed me off. Wish Tyler brought that point back up when Liverpool were 1-4 down at Anfield.
 

Dr. StrangeHate

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2013
Messages
3,047
City are on another level to us. People just got too carried away at what was only the halfway stage with the likes of Leicester in a similar position to what we were.
They are now and I think there is going to be a significant gap between them and us now at the end of the season. But half way through the season they were on level with us and had no striker. They still have no striker but Pep has got a tune out of Stones, Cancelo and Zinchenko which I did not think was possible.
 

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
101,405
Location
Dublin, Ireland
A newbie was spot on earlier; we’ve been brought up watching United win league trophies but the players haven’t been through it. This is a learning curve for them. It’s not a lack of fight, even against Everton when it went to 2-2 they went in front again. It’s that little bit of experience to hold on to what we got
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
23,388
'Unreliable' doesn't mean that it's shite or can't score. It means it's inconsistent and erratic, and the facts bear that out. We scored 15 of our 49 goals in just two games. We can run riot in one game and look completely toothless in the next. In that sense, the attack is very much unreliable even if defending is obviously a bigger issue right now.
Most teams who are top scorers stat pad v a couple of sides. Nobody consistently scores 3 a game.
 

Nou_Camp99

what would Souness do?
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
6,144
'Unreliable' doesn't mean that it's shite or can't score. It means it's inconsistent and erratic, and the facts bear that out. We scored 15 of our 49 goals in just two games. We can run riot in one game and look completely toothless in the next. In that sense, the attack is very much unreliable even if defending is obviously a bigger issue right now.
Bigger issue is the understatement of the century mate. It's a joke how bad they are.

Any fans blaming Bruno n Rashford for our troubles this season are clueless. They are being let down by idiots at the back. Maguire n Lindelof are not good enough.
 

Siorac

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
19,908
Location
16th century
(Liverpool scored 7 in one, and I'm sure City have scored 15 in three in fairness
And it should be noted that Liverpool's attack is fairly unreliable, too, this season: they can't buy a goal at Anfield recently. As for City, they literally have no strikers. Their 'attack' is just a bunch of midfielders scoring goals.
 

Harry Harries

Full Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
5,987
Location
UK, hun?
A newbie was spot on earlier; we’ve been brought up watching United win league trophies but the players haven’t been through it. This is a learning curve for them. It’s not a lack of fight, even against Everton when it went to 2-2 they went in front again. It’s that little bit of experience to hold on to what we got
Exactly. It's a cheap shot from Carragher after we were undeservedly sucker punched in the last minute, we've generally shown great fortitude throughout this season. Reeks of him projecting his own bitterness about Liverpool's ineptitude.
 

Siorac

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
19,908
Location
16th century
Bigger issue is the understatement of the century mate. It's a joke how bad they are.

Any fans blaming Bruno n Rashford for our troubles this season are clueless. They are being let down by idiots at the back. Maguire n Lindelof are not good enough.
Well, yeah, blaming Bruno or Rashford is indeed stupid. Blaming Martial or Greenwood (11 goals between them in all competitions), however... I don't think it's unreasonable to say that we'd be much better off if they got anywhere near the level they showed last season.