2016 US Presidential Elections | Trump Wins

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Raoul

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As usual, it will come down to a few swing states imo. Whoever takes the likes of Virginia and North Carolina will probably win (that's assuming Jeb takes Florida).
 

sun_tzu

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Closing out the American Politics thread and moving the discussion in here.

With Hillary Clinton expected to officially announce on Sunday, and several GOPers already having announced, who do you think will win the election ?

Here's a decent primer of who is running or expected to announce soon......

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/us/politics/2016-presidential-candidates.html?_r=0
I have said for many years on here i expect it to be Bush vs Clinton 2 and I think its quite a sad reflection that family name / connections / fundraising abilities seems to be what selects the candidates rather than vision.

That said I think a Democrat victory is the most likely outcome but nodoubt it will be a close and divisive negative campaign from both sides again.

Perhaps the big advantage (or at least how it appears from my point of view) is that Clinton seems to be virtually unopposed by any realistic challengers from the democrat side so they can perhaps pull around one candidate rather than what I expect to be quite a fractious process on the republican side pulling the party in a number of directions and ultimately trying to appease ones own base which will probably result in policies that do not appeal to the middle / undecided voters as much.

Bookies are generally pretty good at this kind of thing and they have

democrats 4/6 on
republicans 11/10 against which is a bigger gap than last time I think

clinton 2/7, warren 8/1 and biden 16/1 are the leading democrat candidates which looks like a pressession for clinton

bush 2/1, walker around 4/1, rubio around 5/1 and paul around 7/1 with christie around the same for the rebublican nomination.

all of which I think ties in with a close republican race where they tear each other to shreds moving ever more to the right to get the nomination then have too much of a job to heal their wounds and appeal to the votes they need in the centre ground.

clinton is available at 5/4 against to be the next president which seems like very good odds to me eapecially as it seems the nomination is 99% secured and a democtar victory is odds on.
 

Gannicus

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sun_tzu

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Not that I expect it to happen - but what if the electoral college votes turn out to be 269 vs 269 which I understand is technically possible - what constitutionally happens at that point?
 

Eboue

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Not that I expect it to happen - but what if the electoral college votes turn out to be 269 vs 269 which I understand is technically possible - what constitutionally happens at that point?
The House of Representatives would vote as states, so 1 vote for California and 1 vote for Wyoming (more undemocratic laws) and the republicans would win.
 

Raoul

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PedroMendez

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It's only between those top four. The odds are too heavily stacked in favor of Hillary, but at this point she has to be considered the slight favorite over Bush. But she will actually suffer from not having a primary challenge. Her glass jaw in the end will be her undoing.
Not really. The problem for any GOP candidate is, that HC will do incredible well with centrist voters. Heck, she´d beat most republicans in a race for their own centrist voters. She also has the backing of the democratic establishment and big interest groups. Any progressive candidate could rip her a new one on the left side, but she runs unopposed because of her name/connections/personality, so she doesn’t alienate any of those voters. HC will beat any rep. candidate in the middle while she´ll also gain votes from the progressive left-wing. On the other side any rep. candidate will struggle with her appeal to centrist voters, while also being attacked from the far right.
 

Ole's_toe_poke

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It'll be interesting to see if Hillary Clinton tries to distance herself from the current administration in her campaign or not. Considering she was a part of it, that may be difficult to pull off.
 

ravi2

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Probably because of the odds stacked against them. There is no Obama like upstart to swoop in and steal the nomination this time.
Warren said she isnt running but if she challenged Hillary, she could beat her and win it all....she is that good.
 

Cheesy

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I think the Democrats or Republicans will win.
 

Gannicus

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Not really. The problem for any GOP candidate is, that HC will do incredible well with centrist voters. Heck, she´d beat most republicans in a race for their own centrist voters. She also has the backing of the democratic establishment and big interest groups. Any progressive candidate could rip her a new one on the left side, but she runs unopposed because of her name/connections/personality, so she doesn’t alienate any of those voters. HC will beat any rep. candidate in the middle while she´ll also gain votes from the progressive left-wing. On the other side any rep. candidate will struggle with her appeal to centrist voters, while also being attacked from the far right.
Centrist voters aren't all the same.

There are centrist voters in states like Ohio, Virginia and North Carolina (Hillary can forget about Florida) who will view HRC as an ideological liberal and other centrist voters who will like her and other centrist voters will remember her vote in support of the Iraq War and view her with distrust. It's way too early for a firm prediction as there is actually a campaign that has to be run first, but Hillary has work to do to fire up the "left-wing base" as well as reassure the "centrist voters" who may be Dem or non-party affiliated independent that she's not a lefty. It can be done, but it's a tightrope walk for her.

On the Rep side, it's either Bush or Rubio, full stop. But let's forget about Rubio for now and assume Bush.

JB's immediate problem is somewhat similar to HRC's: firing up the frothing base of the party while reassuring centrist voters that he's not really a frothing wingnut. JB is more naturally a "centrist" politician, as he has nowhere near the ideological baggage that HRC has, which is why he has a problem with the right-wing in his party in the first place. His "baggage" is guilt by association with GHWB and W, but in the end voters vote for the candidate, not the family of the candidate. Even so, Hillary is no position to berate Jeb about his family association.

If it's HRC v JB, which is very likely, the question is whether each candidate makes a run for the base or a run for the center. It's way too early to say, but I suspect they'll actually make a run for their party bases. As most of you know, our potus election is actually decided by the electoral college (gotta get that t-shirt someday!), which means only a few states are in serious play (running up the score in California doesn't help Hillary). Someone put up a good website last night and it maps it out fairly well. But you actually have to drill further down into those swing states to determine whether -- to take Ohio for one example, from a JB perspective -- you try to eat into the centrist vote in the suburbs of Cleveland or maximize the base vote in Cincinnati and Columbus. On some level you try to do both, but the mega-narrative of the campaign message will be either a pitch to centrists or a pitch to the base -- on both sides. You can't really do both. You pick off micro-pockets of voters here and there in a few key states but what may well decide the winner in the key states is whether Hillary can replicate of the Obama base vote in cities like Cleveland in Ohio, Alexandria and Richmond in Virginia and Charlotte and The Triangle (a geographic place, actually) or whether Jeb can maximize the incredible base vote he picked up in the smaller towns of those three states. It's not just those three states, but whoever picks up Ohio, Virginia and North Carolina (JB wins Florida) gets to ride around in Marine One all he or she wants for the next four years, probably eight.

For those of you on the "Hillary is inevitable" bandwagon, you might want to take another look at her dreadful performance in front of the cameras at the UN a few weeks ago. She'll no doubt polish things up, but we've seen nothing from her for a very long time that suggests that fit and in form for a magisterial potus run.
 

Ubik

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270towin is a pretty good site to look at different state combinations.

This is probably the only viable path for the GOP candidate to win - http://www.270towin.com/2016_election_predictions.php?mapid=bKCU

It would involve retaking Virginia, North Carolina, Ohio, and Nevada . If Hillary pics someone like Jim Webb, it will be very difficult for the GOP to win Virginia imo, and that could be that.
I do love that site. I remember from the previous election that Obama's team had 3 independent strategies they could pursue to achieve the 270 EV - western (NV, CO, NM, IA), mid-western (IA, OH) and southern (NC, VA). Just emphasises what a strong positions the Dems are in, given they ended up winning all but one of those anyway (and got Florida to boot). Am I right in saying as well that ol' Bill is still pretty popular over there?
 

Americano

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Am I right in saying as well that ol' Bill is still pretty popular over there?
It's a very mixed bag for Bill. Infamous might be a better description. Despite his quickies and financial chicanery, he's able to project a likable and popular persona impervious to scandal and the law. Hilary lacks that endearing warmth but she has the name recognition and the money, both major factors. What ideology does she really represent? I guess that's for sale to the highest bidder. The Clinton Foundation will be under scrutiny, which Bill is involved in and we'll all be reminded of the Lewinsky scandal and the Clinton's broken sham of a marriage. Lovely people.
 

SirAF

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feck sake, they can't elect a President who will be 69 at the time of the inauguration. I reckon the Republicans will win either way, these things tend to go in cycles.
 

Mockney

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I'd personally like to think that the landslide Obama achieved against a sensible looking republican candidate in Romney (magic pants, personal planet aside) during a time of mental, outspoken opposition from the right, points to a highliklihood of Hilary winning easily against anyone.
 

Ubik

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feck sake, they can't elect a President who will be 69 at the time of the inauguration. I reckon the Republicans will win either way, these things tend to go in cycles.
Ronald Reagan says hi.
 

SirAF

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Ronald Reagan says hi.
Indeed, he does.

The fact that it happened before doesn't mean that the biggest job in the world should be help by a person who will be around 77 at the end of the second term if re-elected.
 
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Ubik

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Indeed, he does.

The fact that it happened before doesn't mean that the biggest job in the world should be help by a person who will be around 77 at the end of the second term if re-elected.
Why shouldn't it?
 

Tommy

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Indeed, he does.

The fact that it happened before doesn't mean that the biggest job in the world should be help by a person who will be around 77 at the end of the second term if re-elected.
Jesus, she's 67?!? I probably would :lol:
 
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