2019/20 Rivals - Chelsea

Adisa

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I think people are overreacting. Kante, Willian and Rudiger will make a massive difference.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Losing Hazard was bad enough. Not having thr capability to replace him has just compounded their ever existing striker issues. Tammy isnt going to cut it. The guy barely moves and in this league thats a recipe for disaster.
That's the thing. I look at their forward options and I think: who provides the goals? Some decent enough players there like Willian and Pedro, but these guys don't even hit double figures in the league. Then you've got by a mile the worst striker options out of the top six. It seems they're pinning a lot of hopes on CHO providing a spark, but he's coming back from a horrible injury and is still a player who needs a lot of work. I just don't see a lot of quality at all for them going forward, nobody that scares teams. Pulisic just isn't going to do enough either, this is a player whose most productive season ever was 4 goals 5 assists.

They seem to really want to play out of the back as well, so selling Luiz but playing Zouma was weird and makes me wonder a little about Lampard. He's obviously putting a lot of faith in the younger players of the squad but whilst that's a nice idea, some of those young players blatantly just aren't good enough to meet Chelsea's expectations.

Aside from that they're pretty strong in midfield, especially when RLC is back, and I think we did see that today. Their approach play was tidy and clearly they have some technical quality in those areas, but again they're going to struggle to turn attractive football in to winning football when they don't have players who can make them dangerous in the final third. We saw a similar situation with Norwich vs Liverpool where Norwich looked good going forward/in approach play, but they wasted those opportunities whereas Liverpool had those killer forwards who put away the chances.

As a positive, Emerson was a real threat .. weirdly their biggest one going forward.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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I think people are overreacting. Kante, Willian and Rudiger will make a massive difference.
The other two fair enough but if you're relying on Willian to be a game changer you're in trouble. He's a slightly upgraded Lamela, both work incredibly hard and both are about as productive as each other i.e not very much.
 

RooneyLegend

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We signed pulisic as a hazard replacement, it was known he was leaving in the summer. I’m not sure we’d have signed another winger without the ban; especially with CHO expected to break through this season (prior to his injury). We would of course have signed a striker though.
Hazards contribution wasnt that of a conventional winger though.The man was chelsea's chief playmaker. Replacing him with Pulisic is somewhat disrespectful to the great man dont you think?
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Hazards contribution wasnt that of a conventional winger though.The man was chelsea's chief playmaker. Replacing him with Pulisic is somewhat disrespectful to the great man dont you think?
Chief playmaker and chief goalscorer, all wrapped up in to one.
 

Bobski

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Chief playmaker and chief goalscorer, all wrapped up in to one.
As good as Hazard is you could make an argument that his ball dominance restricted opportunities for others and a more team orientated system with varied means of attack offers greater potential.
 

Gringo

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What stood out today was how weak they were all over the park. From attack to defence Chelsea were outmuscled meaning when Utd could overturn possession as will and Chelsea would be left caught out. If they could sit a destroyer next to Jorginho it would help sort out the soft underbelly somewhat. I mean it's very early days yet, but if they get hammered to Liverpool and don't beat Leicester the pressure is going to be huge on Lampard and the team.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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As good as Hazard is you could make an argument that his ball dominance restricted opportunities for others and a more team orientated system with varied means of attack offers greater potential.
I don't trust their attacking options to prove that though, I don't see enough of those players stepping up to the level where they can replace that output. They may well be less predictable than they were with Hazard, but that predictability still offered a guarantee of star quality you're simply no longer getting now unless a couple of the younger players (cho and pulisic in particular) seriously step up to the plate and have a breakthrough season.
 

RyRoc

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When the game is being played at a fast speed like today's one then Jorginho is a big problem for them. It's similar to the problem Arsenal have with Xhaka - both very good footballers but a fast paced game sees them lose composure not just in their passing but their decision making too. Far too often they are caught in transition from poor passes from these players.

Will add that there's not one single natural leader in their squad. Azpilicueta is a good professional and probably well respected but he does not strike me as a leader. Again Arsenal have the same problem and it's not a surprise when these teams so often in big games concede quick goals in concession because that is crucial period in a game where someone needs to be counted for and get the team organised but they don't have it.
 

Mastadon

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That’s the weakest Chelsea team I’ve seen in a very very long time. Abraham, Giroud and Batshitcrazy up front is pretty awful.
 

KennyBurner

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I think people are overreacting. Kante, Willian and Rudiger will make a massive difference.
They really aren’t. Hazard was a big part of their creativity. They are not top 6 quality as of now. Kovacic, Kante and Jorginho offer nothing offensively. Defense is also a mess. Below average strikers at the club. It’s going to be a long season for them and you love to see it.
 

Djemba-Djemba

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I said on here after the 6-0 City game that people will lose their mind over a scoreline rather than analysing performances. The same applies today.

We were a lot better than I expected for about 60 minutes today. We went to Old Trafford with a young side and out played United in my opinion. 2 goals in a minute and a late counter flattered united massively.

I personally thought we should have been winning at ht. united scored near enough all of their chances we missed a couple of big ones. I’m actually fairly optimistic after today. Zouma will Be replaces by Ruidger which solves most of the issues from today. Barkley and Mount can’t play together which will be solved by Pulisic. Striker is a big worry as Abraham is out of depth at this level I feel.

We were very naive once it went 3-0. Could maybe argue we were naive the entire game with how we set up. United struggle against a low block. Think a more experienced manager would have set us up to contain and counter better. This was a theme of lampard at Derby though, especially in away games. Hopefully he learns that there’s no need to set up openly against a strong counter side away.

Thought United were pretty poor today (performance wise anyway, they were very clinical which isn’t a bad thing), a lot of the issues from previous years still seemed to be there. Lack of any real game plan bar countering with high transitions. Mcguire looked solid, wont have much easier games than against Abraham though. Midfield looks really poor, Pogba was good though. Needs supported more.
4-0 did flatter us a bit but I can't see how you can be so optimistic about Chelsea and so down about Utd.

It's been said a lot about Utd but it really applies to Chelsea, where will the goals come from?

I think you'll struggle a lot scoring.

The Utd side was even younger than the Chelsea too I'm pretty sure.
 

el3mel

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I just noticed they're facing Liverpool next match in super cup. That's very unfair for Lampard. Same nightmare Emery had last season on his debut with Arsenal facing City and Chelsea in a row.
 
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Megadrive Man

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I just noticed they're facing Liverpool on Anfield next match. That's very unfair for Lampard. Same nightmare Emery had last season on his debut with Arsenal facing City and Chelsea in a row.
The Liverpool games is in the super cup in Istanbul.

Chelsea were by far the better team today, albeit in a very low quality match.
 

el3mel

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The Liverpool games is in the super cup in Istanbul.

Chelsea were by far the better team today, albeit in a very low quality match.
Yeah I edited it before your post. Still a terrible start to your career at a club because they'll probably lose again.
 

Amadaeus

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I didn’t realize the lack of quality players they have until today. Looking at that team, I could not pick out one single world class player or even player who has the potential to be world class.

Maybe we were just very lucky to play them first. Hudson Odoi, Loftus Cheeks and and Kante are definitely first team players who would have made a different. Zouma was abysmal. Luiz with one leg is most likely better :lol:. Regardless, they played some good football, but just lacked the quality for end product and decision making.
 

Welby5

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That’s the weakest Chelsea team I’ve seen in a very very long time. Abraham, Giroud and Batshitcrazy up front is pretty awful.
The weakest for nearly 25 years. Lost their only world class player, without several starters and unable to buy any players. Despite all that, they were still able to outplay Utd for 60 mins. Utd will finish 4th, but compared to what they once were, they're still a dull, bang average team going nowhere fast. I'd bet good money Chelsea will be better than Utd 18 months from now.
 

Djemba-Djemba

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The weakest for nearly 25 years. Lost their only world class player, without several starters and unable to buy any players. Despite all that, they were still able to outplay Utd for 60 mins. Utd will finish 4th, but compared to what they once were, they're still a dull, bang average team going nowhere fast. I'd bet good money Chelsea will be better than Utd 18 months from now.
:lol:
 

Handré1990

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The weakest for nearly 25 years. Lost their only world class player, without several starters and unable to buy any players. Despite all that, they were still able to outplay Utd for 60 mins. Utd will finish 4th, but compared to what they once were, they're still a dull, bang average team going nowhere fast. I'd bet good money Chelsea will be better than Utd 18 months from now.
Well, my da’s bigger than yours. So there!
 

KennyBurner

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is this the starting 11 of a team that can finish above top 8? The transfer ban and sale of hazard has really screwed chelsea. No way they finish above leicester, wolves and everton.
 

caid

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They weren't as terrible as 4-0 would suggest but they weren't great either. They were just so slow to react and set up kind of suicidally. Every time the ball turned over their midfielders got left for dead with a mile of space to the defence. Kante will be busy this season, you'd have to presume he'll help a lot. Getting zouma out of your first team will probably help too, though maybe it was just a bad day for him? The defence is fixable. Your lack of goals is another matter and will cost you getting close to top 4 this season imo. Lampard would probably be doing well to keep up with the chasing pack and avoiding any meltdowns for the season.
 

Mr Smith

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is this the starting 11 of a team that can finish above top 8? The transfer ban and sale of hazard has really screwed chelsea. No way they finish above leicester, wolves and everton.
Did you watch Leicester v Wolves? Leicester in particular are being hugely overrated.

Chelsea will be ok. Would be shocked if they're challenging for 4th by the end of the season but they still have good players. Their defence is going to be their biggest problem.
 

bond19821982

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I said on here after the 6-0 City game that people will lose their mind over a scoreline rather than analysing performances. The same applies today.

We were a lot better than I expected for about 60 minutes today. We went to Old Trafford with a young side and out played United in my opinion. 2 goals in a minute and a late counter flattered united massively.

I personally thought we should have been winning at ht. united scored near enough all of their chances we missed a couple of big ones. I’m actually fairly optimistic after today. Zouma will Be replaces by Ruidger which solves most of the issues from today. Barkley and Mount can’t play together which will be solved by Pulisic. Striker is a big worry as Abraham is out of depth at this level I feel.

We were very naive once it went 3-0. Could maybe argue we were naive the entire game with how we set up. United struggle against a low block. Think a more experienced manager would have set us up to contain and counter better. This was a theme of lampard at Derby though, especially in away games. Hopefully he learns that there’s no need to set up openly against a strong counter side away.

Thought United were pretty poor today (performance wise anyway, they were very clinical which isn’t a bad thing), a lot of the issues from previous years still seemed to be there. Lack of any real game plan bar countering with high transitions. Mcguire looked solid, wont have much easier games than against Abraham though. Midfield looks really poor, Pogba was good though. Needs supported more.
You outplayed us first 20-30 mins but that was it. I can't remember one single chance which you guys created due to your so called superior play.

DDG had an easy game and our defence was very good. Midfield was wide open only because Pogba is not at his defensive best when played on 2 man midfield. Against, better teams we will have one more midfielder coming in.

Also agree with Lamp's naivety in terms of setting his team wide open. If you had defended and went for counter , things would have been different.
 

sincher

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I didn’t realize the lack of quality players they have until today. Looking at that team, I could not pick out one single world class player or even player who has the potential to be world class.

Maybe we were just very lucky to play them first. Hudson Odoi, Loftus Cheeks and and Kante are definitely first team players who would have made a different. Zouma was abysmal. Luiz with one leg is most likely better :lol:. Regardless, they played some good football, but just lacked the quality for end product and decision making.
Probably the 2 they missed most were Rudiger and Kante. Their 2 best defensive players. But yeah, CHO, Loftus-Cheek, Willian all out too. A good time to play them.
 

Spiersey

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You outplayed us first 20-30 mins but that was it. I can't remember one single chance which you guys created due to your so called superior play.

DDG had an easy game and our defence was very good. Midfield was wide open only because Pogba is not at his defensive best when played on 2 man midfield. Against, better teams we will have one more midfielder coming in.

Also agree with Lamp's naivety in terms of setting his team wide open. If you had defended and went for counter , things would have been different.
Think we outplayed yous for the first half really bar the spell 20-30.
We created a few good chances, Emerson woody, Barkley save from DDG. Abraham woody wasn’t really a big chance. Had a few really promising positions as well where the final ball was poor, mainly with cutbacks. The Mount chance really should have ended with a goal.

Did you watch Leicester v Wolves? Leicester in particular are being hugely overrated.

Chelsea will be ok. Would be shocked if they're challenging for 4th by the end of the season but they still have good players. Their defence is going to be their biggest problem.
Our defence personnel isn’t an issue. Azpilicueta is arguably the strongest RB in the league defensively. Rudiger is easily top 5 cb in the league; maybe even top 3. Christensen is solid also. Emerson is underrated as well. I do think we’ll be exposed defensively this season but it’ll be more to do with Lampards tactics as opposed to our players. On paper our defence is pretty strong when no injuries. Depth isn’t so strong though. Kante being back will give us a lot more protection as well, should help a fair bit As I’m pretty sure we’ll be very open under Lampard (to our detriment at times like today, will be a big issue in away games).
 

Bearded One

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I reckon this is their best 11:

Arizabalaga
Azpilicueta Rudiger Christensen Emerson
Loftus-Cheek Kante
Hudson-Odoi Pulisic Pedro
Giroud
 

Scroto Baggins

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I agree they were not as terrible as the scoreline suggests, they actually had more possession and shots than us. Having said that they lacked that player who could unlock a defence, I feel they could have 70% possession and still not score.
 

criticalanalysis

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I think we were very lucky to be 1-0 at half time and then in the second half the ref was quite leninient to us, which enable us to overpower Chelsea physically.

Say what you want about Lampard's set up and team selection but he's managed to get them to play good tacticaland technical possession (in a very short time) against a Utd team that wanted to press and harry. Maybe his ideals don't quite fit with the players he had available but it was impressive at least to make us look so incompetent in the middle of the pitch. He had half a team that he didn't play. Pulisic/Willian/Pedro behind a Giroud is still a very good attacking line up. If he can manage to sure up midfield with Kante and some physicality other than Barkley/Jorginho, it's still a good team. Emerson looks promising.

I hope Ole can add this kind of passing set ups and possession where we don't rely on individual plays to get out of situations.
 

Dancfc

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is this the starting 11 of a team that can finish above top 8? The transfer ban and sale of hazard has really screwed chelsea. No way they finish above leicester, wolves and everton.
It's quite funny because for years we were (wrongly) told Hazard doesn't do enough, was flashy, lacked end product and mentality yet now he's apparently the player that was keeping us from dining with the likes of Watford in midtable :lol:

Hazard will be a big miss yes and yes it will likely cost us top 4 but this fantasy of us diving behind all of Wolves, Everton and Leicester is hilarious. Even us without Hazard is still superior to some of the states Arsenal, Spurs, United and Liverpool have got into at various points this decade and with the exception of the latter none ever fell from top 7.

And that's before we mention half that team (Azpi, Zouma, one of Jorginho/Kova, Pedro, Barkley, Mount) won't be starting with everyone fully fit and even more (Tammy, Emerson) will be out if we can get our ban reversed for January.