2019/20 Rivals - Chelsea

TheMagicFoolBus

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Chelsea have quite an inflated squad at the moment which they have spent a fortune putting together. Below are the ones that jump out as having question marks over their future;

Kepa £72m
Emerson £18m
Zappacosta £23m
Jorginho £52m
Kovacic £40m
Bakayoko £36m
Drinkwater £35m
Barkley £15m
Batshuayi £35m

You also have the likes of the below still out on loan with no future at the club;

Kennedy
Moses
Rahman
Piazon
van Ginkle

When you add all of the above to the list of soon departing older players like Willian and Pedro then the likes of Alonso, Azipulcueta and Giroud who won't be around all that much longer you have to wonder just how much money Chelsea are going to need to spend and just how much money they have wasted in recent times. It's quite eye watering really.

Yes they have made what appear to be good signings in Ziyech, Werner and Pulisic but again it's more big money to replace more big money that hasn't worked again. You also have to wonder what message those signings send to Gilmour, CHO, Mount, RLC and Tammy who will undoubtedly see their pathway to the first team hindered. Especially when you consider there are likely to be more signings to come given the work that needs doing on the squad.
And yet somehow despite all of that our net spend over the past 5 seasons is more than 4 times lower than yours - €538.75 vs. €126.31. Our wage bill is also ~26.5% lower.

Drinkwater aside, most of those players retain at least some value and will be moved on. I'm not sure what the point of this post is.
 
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Wonder if Lampard will revert back to Jorginho for these final crucial games. Gilmour is clearly a talent but he's not ready to control a midfield, still some sloppy passing and gets lost sometimes. Jorginho completely changed the flow today and Palace didn't have a sniff until the last 2 minutes when they should have fecking scored :mad:. I assume Lampard's not been playing Jorginho because of the rumors he wants out.

Or he could just go with the Barkley Kante Mount midfield which has worked well enough in a few games.
 

padr81

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And yet somehow despite all of that our net spend over the past 5 seasons is more than 4 times lower than yours - €538.75 vs. €126.31. Our wage bill is also ~26.5% lower.

Drinkwater aside, most of those players retain at least some value and will be moved on. I'm not sure what the point of this post is.
No offence bud but that's a Spurs fans argument.
 

duffer

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Wonder if Lampard will revert back to Jorginho for these final crucial games. Gilmour is clearly a talent but he's not ready to control a midfield, still some sloppy passing and gets lost sometimes. Jorginho completely changed the flow today and Palace didn't have a sniff until the last 2 minutes when they should have fecking scored :mad:. I assume Lampard's not been playing Jorginho because of the rumors he wants out.

Or he could just go with the Barkley Kante Mount midfield which has worked well enough in a few games.
With Kante & Kovacic injured, I'd be amazed ifJorginho does not start the next game, especially after his impact yesterday.
 

TheReligion

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And yet somehow despite all of that our net spend over the past 5 seasons is more than 4 times lower than yours - €538.75 vs. €126.31. Our wage bill is also ~26.5% lower.

Drinkwater aside, most of those players retain at least some value and will be moved on. I'm not sure what the point of this post is.
And that's the problem I guess
 

SirScholes

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Chelsea have quite an inflated squad at the moment which they have spent a fortune putting together. Below are the ones that jump out as having question marks over their future;

Kepa £72m
Emerson £18m
Zappacosta £23m
Jorginho £52m
Kovacic £40m
Bakayoko £36m
Drinkwater £35m
Barkley £15m
Batshuayi £35m
72mil Jesus! For me that goes down as one of the worst ever signings!
if it was presence he lacked and was an amazing shot stopper I’d get it but he’s awful
 

duffer

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Drinkwater aside, most of those players retain at least some value and will be moved on. I'm not sure what the point of this post is.
His point is to have a dig. He always, always posts negative stuff about Chelsea. He's not the worst on here but he's top 3 for sure.

It can be funny but just don't take it seriously and as always, never feed a troll.
 

TheReligion

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72mil Jesus! For me that goes down as one of the worst ever signings!
if it was presence he lacked and was an amazing shot stopper I’d get it but he’s awful
There's been a few horrendous signings in that list and that's the ones still at the club. Obviously there's been the likes of Morata, Higuain etc who have since been moved back on.

Whilst they don't always spend one huge lump on one player the have a habit of buying two or three average players in the £30-35m price range it seems.
 

TheReligion

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His point is to have a dig. He always, always posts negative stuff about Chelsea. He's not the worst on here but he's top 3 for sure.

It can be funny but just don't take it seriously and as always, never feed a troll.
I'll admit it is to have a dig but the reason is some of you guys are so precious lately and struggle to take any criticism whatsoever. I've noticed every single thing is turned to a "well United do this" kind of arguement which gets tiresome. I mean even his response then fell into the same trap of bringing United into things immediately :lol:

If you can give it out, which most of you do, you'll have to learn to take it.
 

duffer

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I'll admit it is to have a dig but the reason is some of you guys are so precious lately and struggle to take any criticism whatsoever. I've noticed every single thing is turned to a "well United do this" kind of arguement which gets tiresome. I mean even his response then fell into the same trap of bringing United into things immediately :lol:

If you can give it out, which most of you do, you'll have to learn to take it.
I've been taking it on here since 2004 kiddo! I have a PhD in taking it. Call me Dr Take it. Actually, don't call me that.
 

TheReligion

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I've been taking it on here since 2004 kiddo! I have a PhD in taking it. Call me Dr Take it. Actually, don't call me that.
No you can (and you like to WUM too but don't we all). It's the more recent bunch who seem to get teary eyed at any criticism of their beloved Chelsea. Anyway there's merits to my post. I was quite surprised at the large amount of deadwood that needs clearing and some of the fees you've paid. I think it gets ignored a little as you're quite good at moving players on (something we are now better at ourselves) but it's quite high turnover which is why I prefer to utilise academy players in and around the squad as opposed to expensive filler.

Do you see a shift to that from Chelsea now?
 

duffer

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No you can (and you like to WUM too but don't we all). It's the more recent bunch who seem to get teary eyed at any criticism of their beloved Chelsea. Anyway there's merits to my post. I was quite surprised at the large amount of deadwood that needs clearing and some of the fees you've paid. I think it gets ignored a little as you're quite good at moving players on (something we are now better at ourselves) but it's quite high turnover which is why I prefer to utilise academy players in and around the squad as opposed to expensive filler.

Do you see a shift to that from Chelsea now?
The deadwood you talk about makes Chelsea money through the loan fees and eventual transfer fees we get. Last month we sold Palasic for £15 million and he'd never even trained with the first team. Last season we sold Aina, Hector, Omeruo and Kalas for a combined £25 mil.

Having the huge squad we do is not miss-management or bad signings (some are bad of course), it's a long term strategy to help the club deal with FFP and it's worked.

If there's a shift it'll be because they change the loan rules, not because the club wants to make less money.
 

TheReligion

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The deadwood you talk about makes Chelsea money through the loan fees and eventual transfer fees we get. Last month we sold Palasic for £15 million and he'd never even trained with the first team. Last season we sold Aina, Hector, Omeruo and Kalas for a combined £25 mil.

Having the huge squad we do is not miss-management or bad signings (some are bad of course), it's a long term strategy to help the club deal with FFP and it's worked.

If there's a shift it'll be because they change the loan rules, not because the club wants to make less money.
Oh yeah I know you use to loan system to make money and players like Piazon fall into the category. Your longest serving player that has never played for you or something right?

But I mean the likes of Zappacosta, Bakayoko, Drinkwater, Batshuayi. All picked up for big money and all lounging in the loan/no future bracket. You could add Jorginho to that list I guess too.

I know you've had several different managers but I was surprised at the number of players that haven't worked out given the structure you have in place is meant to reduce that?
 

duffer

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I know you've had several different managers but I was surprised at the number of players that haven't worked out given the structure you have in place is meant to reduce that?
Every transfer structure/system at every club is meant to reduce bad transfers.

Every club in the world has players signed for big money or on huge wages that didn't work, it's the nature of the beast. Chelsea's transfer strategy has been a success, even with the likes of Drinkwater and Bakayoko.
 

TheReligion

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Every transfer structure/system at every club is meant to reduce bad transfers.

Every club in the world has players signed for big money or on huge wages that didn't work, it's the nature of the beast. Chelsea's transfer strategy has been a success, even with the likes of Drinkwater and Bakayoko.
Every club does have players signed for big money that don't work out I agree but Chelsea seem to have quite a few? I mean as I say you'll likely get money back on most which is why it isn't touched on but the turnover is pretty high and it's clear in the current squad theres alot of important business and decisions to make.

I raise it as there's a common misconception, especially here, that Chelsea are fantastic in the market and the set up is the best around. Clearly it shows that even with an established set up like yours it's still a bit of a guessing game.
 

Champ

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And yet somehow despite all of that our net spend over the past 5 seasons is more than 4 times lower than yours - €538.75 vs. €126.31. Our wage bill is also ~26.5% lower.

Drinkwater aside, most of those players retain at least some value and will be moved on. I'm not sure what the point of this post is.
Not the net spend argument again. Chelsea have spent similar levels of money to United in the last 5 years, in fact I believe it's pretty much level in terms of transfer expenditure.
 

WeePat

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Not the net spend argument again. Chelsea have spent similar levels of money to United in the last 5 years, in fact I believe it's pretty much level in terms of transfer expenditure.
Net spend is useless when discussing the quality/strength of a squad, I agree. It only really matters if we're having a conversation about the financial health of a club. I can't for the life of me imagine why it would matter in a who has performed better this season pissing contest.
 

Dancfc

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Net spend is useless when discussing the quality/strength of a squad, I agree. It only really matters if we're having a conversation about the financial health of a club. I can't for the life of me imagine why it would matter in a who has performed better this season pissing contest.
Because it often means you have to give up a first teamer to buy one.

I agree it's a bit misleading in our case but if you look at Liverpool they had to sacrifice their most creative player to get their goalie and CB situation sorted, net spend definitely becomes a factor then.
 

WeePat

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Because it often means you have to give up a first teamer to buy one.

I agree it's a bit misleading in our case but if you look at Liverpool they had to sacrifice their most creative player to get their goalie and CB situation sorted, net spend definitely becomes a factor then.
I hear what you're saying, but when the season starts, the final make up of the squad still costs what it costs, and that's what we, for the most part, base our expectations for that team on.
 

duffer

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I hear what you're saying, but when the season starts, the final make up of the squad still costs what it costs, and that's what we, for the most part, base our expectations for that team on.
So when we started this season, you based your expectations on the fact that we added Pulisic but not that we also lost Hazard?

You take it all into account, anything else is agenda driven.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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No you can (and you like to WUM too but don't we all). It's the more recent bunch who seem to get teary eyed at any criticism of their beloved Chelsea. Anyway there's merits to my post. I was quite surprised at the large amount of deadwood that needs clearing and some of the fees you've paid. I think it gets ignored a little as you're quite good at moving players on (something we are now better at ourselves) but it's quite high turnover which is why I prefer to utilise academy players in and around the squad as opposed to expensive filler.

Do you see a shift to that from Chelsea now?
If you want to have a good faith discussion, I'm happy to. If that was actually your intent, then I apologise for jumping down your throat.

For me Chelsea's recent transfer policy has been largely infuriating / inefficient. We've had the best academy for years; instead of buying squad players at inflated fees we should be promoting academy players to receive those minutes whilst pooling those funds to buy genuine world class talent. Among those players you listed, Zappacosta, Emerson, Drinkwater, Batshuayi, & Barkley (though harsh to include him, we'd sell him for far more than 15m at this point) fall into this category. This is largely driven by a win-now mandate & thus an unwillingness to allow for the inconsistency that's the hallmark of every youth player. Fortunately, there seems to be a shift away from that - Lampard is assured of his job, academy players are receiving regular minutes (even at the expense of senior players; e.g. Gilmour vs. Jorginho), & the targets Chelsea have been linked to / purchased already fall into the bracket of world-class (or near enough) and are clearly intended to address specific gaps in the squad.

The other players you listed don't really fit into that category:

- Kovacic doesn't deserve the label of being a bad purchase at all - he offers something unique tactically (statistically the 2nd best dribbler in Europe this season in terms of success rate), and the team's options were constrained by the transfer ban. He was also Chelsea's best player this season prior to the break.

- Kepa is a bizarre case of Chelsea having no options after Courtois stabbed the club in the back at the eleventh hour. He was targeted due to his ability on the ball, with the hope being that he'd grow as a young player & improve on his mediocre shot stopping numbers. Instead, he's been an utter catastrophe and literally the worst keeper in the history of the PL (lowest save % ever recorded). Clearly he needs to go back to Spain; rumours are that Valencia & Ajax are interested in a triple swap with Kepa going to Valencia on a 2 year loan with a conditional purchase option, Cillessen going back to Ajax, and Onana going to Chelsea.

- Jorginho & Bakayoko were purchased to fit specific tactical demands of feisty Italian managers. Of the two, Bakayoko made less sense given the presence of Chalobah & RLC. Had Chelsea been smart then, we still could have sold Matic and gone into the season with Kante / Fabregas / Chalobah / RLC competing for the two midfield spots, then taken the Matic fee + the fees for Drinkwater / Bakayoko and gotten someone like Paulo Dybala who was unsettled by Ronaldo's arrival. Conte's lack of patience & willingness to work with the board, however, made this difficult. Jorginho was far more defensible given his association with Sarri & Sarri's notion that he was more or less indispensible for the system. Ultimately it was a miscalculation; Jorginho isn't capable of coping physically with the grind of the PL on a regular basis. He still retains significant value though and will probably go to Juve for something like €40-45m (even if payments are deferred).

The way that I view academy players is that I don't think they should be accorded special status just because they came through the system. What I want is for them to have a chance to break into the first team so they can compete for starting roles. If they're good enough (e.g. Mount), then they should be picked week in and week out based on merit. If they aren't yet (CHO), then they come off the bench. Ultimately, they allow the club to save huge amounts of money and afford to bring in top top players. For instance, next year I hope we've sold Alonso & Emerson and instead of having to buy two replacements we buy one prime age starter (e.g. Tagliafico / Telles / Digne) and give Tino Anjorin the backup minutes.

United were genuinely excellent at this under SAF; since his departure you've strayed away from this model. That's why I brought up net spend - Chelsea have been far more ruthlessly efficient at cutting ties once it's obvious a player doesn't fit, but United have let them languish on the bench. This not only impacts the transfer budget negatively, it serves to further block opportunities for youth coming through (especially when you have someone like Mourinho, though I'd argue he was merely exacerbating the problem and not the root cause of it).
 

WeePat

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So when we started this season, you based your expectations on the fact that we added Pulisic but not that we lost Hazard?

You take it all into account, anything else is agenda driven.
If squads A and B both cost £400m to assemble, but squad A sold players worth £150m. The financial health of the team clubs may be different, but the expectations of the performances on the pitch is comparable. I appreciate that this example lacks nuance, but expectations are based on what we have, not what we don't have.
 

duffer

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If squads A and B both cost £400m to assemble, but squad A sold players worth £150m. The financial health of the team clubs may be different, but the expectations of the performances on the pitch is comparable. I appreciate that this example lacks nuance, but expectations are based on what we have, not what we don't have.
I personally thought not having Hazard would make things tougher than having Hazard. There's not much nuance there.


In your example, squad A has £250 million worth of players and squad B has £400 million worth of players. Expectations should be and generally are different.
 

WeePat

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I personally thought not having Hazard would make things tougher than having Hazard. There's not much nuance there.


In your example, squad A has £250 million worth of players and squad B has £400 million worth of players. Expectations should be and generally are different.
No, sorry. Clumsily worded on my behalf. I meant selling assets worth £150m to help assemble a squad worth £400m vs another club that assembled a squad worth £400m without raising £150m beforehand. The net spend for one club is £150m less than the other club, but final make up of both squads is still worth £400m so expectations can be comparable.
 
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Champ

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Net spend is useless when discussing the quality/strength of a squad, I agree. It only really matters if we're having a conversation about the financial health of a club. I can't for the life of me imagine why it would matter in a who has performed better this season pissing contest.
Indeed.
Net spend shouldn't come into a discussion involving transfers.
People only take transfer net spend as gospel in their arguments, not sponsorship, tickets sales etc.
The fact is Chelsea's business model is based around stockpiling players and selling for profit, United is interested in sponsorship rather than selling for profit.
But United make tons more cash than Chelsea, but apparently Chelsea have a lower net spend than us despite spending the same in the last 5 years on transfers? Which obviously isn't the case.
It's a weak argument to justify their clubs spending, Liverpool are exactly the same also.
End rant.
 

Knux

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Chelsea Will have an exciting squad for next season. Ziyech, Pulisic, Werner and possibly Harvertz.

But what about the defence? The back 4 is not a top 4 defence in my opinion. Zouma, Christensen, Rudiger for example are not good Enough.
Azpilicueta and Alonso are the only relieable ones.
 

TheReligion

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If you want to have a good faith discussion, I'm happy to. If that was actually your intent, then I apologise for jumping down your throat.

For me Chelsea's recent transfer policy has been largely infuriating / inefficient. We've had the best academy for years; instead of buying squad players at inflated fees we should be promoting academy players to receive those minutes whilst pooling those funds to buy genuine world class talent. Among those players you listed, Zappacosta, Emerson, Drinkwater, Batshuayi, & Barkley (though harsh to include him, we'd sell him for far more than 15m at this point) fall into this category. This is largely driven by a win-now mandate & thus an unwillingness to allow for the inconsistency that's the hallmark of every youth player. Fortunately, there seems to be a shift away from that - Lampard is assured of his job, academy players are receiving regular minutes (even at the expense of senior players; e.g. Gilmour vs. Jorginho), & the targets Chelsea have been linked to / purchased already fall into the bracket of world-class (or near enough) and are clearly intended to address specific gaps in the squad.

The other players you listed don't really fit into that category:

- Kovacic doesn't deserve the label of being a bad purchase at all - he offers something unique tactically (statistically the 2nd best dribbler in Europe this season in terms of success rate), and the team's options were constrained by the transfer ban. He was also Chelsea's best player this season prior to the break.

- Kepa is a bizarre case of Chelsea having no options after Courtois stabbed the club in the back at the eleventh hour. He was targeted due to his ability on the ball, with the hope being that he'd grow as a young player & improve on his mediocre shot stopping numbers. Instead, he's been an utter catastrophe and literally the worst keeper in the history of the PL (lowest save % ever recorded). Clearly he needs to go back to Spain; rumours are that Valencia & Ajax are interested in a triple swap with Kepa going to Valencia on a 2 year loan with a conditional purchase option, Cillessen going back to Ajax, and Onana going to Chelsea.

- Jorginho & Bakayoko were purchased to fit specific tactical demands of feisty Italian managers. Of the two, Bakayoko made less sense given the presence of Chalobah & RLC. Had Chelsea been smart then, we still could have sold Matic and gone into the season with Kante / Fabregas / Chalobah / RLC competing for the two midfield spots, then taken the Matic fee + the fees for Drinkwater / Bakayoko and gotten someone like Paulo Dybala who was unsettled by Ronaldo's arrival. Conte's lack of patience & willingness to work with the board, however, made this difficult. Jorginho was far more defensible given his association with Sarri & Sarri's notion that he was more or less indispensible for the system. Ultimately it was a miscalculation; Jorginho isn't capable of coping physically with the grind of the PL on a regular basis. He still retains significant value though and will probably go to Juve for something like €40-45m (even if payments are deferred).

The way that I view academy players is that I don't think they should be accorded special status just because they came through the system. What I want is for them to have a chance to break into the first team so they can compete for starting roles. If they're good enough (e.g. Mount), then they should be picked week in and week out based on merit. If they aren't yet (CHO), then they come off the bench. Ultimately, they allow the club to save huge amounts of money and afford to bring in top top players. For instance, next year I hope we've sold Alonso & Emerson and instead of having to buy two replacements we buy one prime age starter (e.g. Tagliafico / Telles / Digne) and give Tino Anjorin the backup minutes.

United were genuinely excellent at this under SAF; since his departure you've strayed away from this model. That's why I brought up net spend - Chelsea have been far more ruthlessly efficient at cutting ties once it's obvious a player doesn't fit, but United have let them languish on the bench. This not only impacts the transfer budget negatively, it serves to further block opportunities for youth coming through (especially when you have someone like Mourinho, though I'd argue he was merely exacerbating the problem and not the root cause of it).
That's a fair post. In part thought despite United's recent struggles one thing we have been pretty consistent with is developing our own players and using them as squad players. In amongst that you have varying degrees of success with the likes of Andreas and Lingard now ready to be moved on but on the flip side Mctominay, Rashford, Greenwood and Williams establishing themselves in the squad and first team. This is something I don't think Chelsea do anywhere near as well and have previously had a tendency to spend money on players like Barkley, Batshuayi, Bakayoko, Zappacosta to fill the squad rather than looking at what's within. Although Andreas and Lingard haven't made it they've cost us nothing in terms of fees and we've given them the opportunity to have a good go at becoming first choice. That can only be positive in my opinion.

Obviously this season has been different due to the ban and I think many are interested to see if you continue the newer approach or revert back to type. I guess that's part of the question mark around signing a number of expensive forwards and midfielders when you have some good ones coming through whom have featured this season significantly and have got you into the top 4.
 

duffer

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No, sorry. Clumsily worded on my behalf. I meant selling assets worth £150m to help assemble a squad worth £400m vs another club that assembled a squad worth £400m without raising £150m beforehand. The net spend for one club is £150m less than the other club, but final make up of both squads is still worth £400m so expectations can be comparable.
You've lost me.
400 - 150 = 250.
400 - 0 = 400.
 

TheLord

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Chelsea will surely get a central defender, at the bare minimum. I don’t think Chelsea’s defense was this bad for over 20 years now. Lampard has already acknowledged that problem.
 

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You've lost me.
400 - 150 = 250.
400 - 0 = 400.
He meant when the season starts, take the transfer value of each squad, that's the total value of the squad and expectations should be based on that.
 

duffer

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He meant when the season starts, take the transfer value of each squad, that's the total value of the squad and expectations should be based on that.
I can't see how that's possible to do in reality. I'm supposed to just ignore that Hazard left and base my expectations on transfer fees paid?

What if Man United sold Pogba & Bruno at the end of the season for £250 million and replaced them with Bakayoko and Drinkwater for £100 million. "Well, we've spent £100 million"
 

roonster09

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I can't see how that's possible to do in reality. I'm supposed to just ignore that Hazard left and base my expectations on transfer fees paid?

What if Man United sold Pogba & Bruno at the end of the season for £250 million and replaced them with Bakayoko and Drinkwater for £100 million. "Well, we've spent £100 million"
Well net spend works more or less in same way, club sells bunch of nobodies (who are never part of first team) for desperate club for a decent fee and then somehow turn that into "We didn't spend much, because net spend"

Big clubs rarely lose their best players against their will, like Ronaldo with us, Hazard with you people. Most of the times net spend argument is based on who can sell their squad players and fringe players for good money.

I agree with @WeePat , just take the total transfer cost to assemble the squad on first day of the season and that's the money spent. How you made the money shouldn't matter. End of the day if you have 500 million worth of players, same as Manutd then it shouldn't matter whether you made 500 million by selling players or noodles. This isn't exactly reliable method too as transfer market changes so much every summer, so club that started the rebuild latter end up playing more money.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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That's a fair post. In part thought despite United's recent struggles one thing we have been pretty consistent with is developing our own players and using them as squad players. In amongst that you have varying degrees of success with the likes of Andreas and Lingard now ready to be moved on but on the flip side Mctominay, Rashford, Greenwood and Williams establishing themselves in the squad and first team. This is something I don't think Chelsea do anywhere near as well and have previously had a tendency to spend money on players like Barkley, Batshuayi, Bakayoko, Zappacosta to fill the squad rather than looking at what's within. Although Andreas and Lingard haven't made it they've cost us nothing in terms of fees and we've given them the opportunity to have a good go at becoming first choice. That can only be positive in my opinion.

Obviously this season has been different due to the ban and I think many are interested to see if you continue the newer approach or revert back to type. I guess that's part of the question mark around signing a number of expensive forwards and midfielders when you have some good ones coming through whom have featured this season significantly and have got you into the top 4.
I think that's entirely correct. McTominay in particular deserves plaudits for managing to convince Mourinho.

I suppose ultimately we may have to agree to disagree over the last bit - I certainly am hopeful that this newer approach is here to stay, as I think it's the best way to ensure continued success at the top level. What has encouraged me is that the recruitment thus far seems far more targeted & thought out - we're not just buying average players willy-nilly. Where I'd push back slightly though is the notion that our youth is being blocked - CHO hasn't been hugely influential in terms of our league form this season and I don't really think he's ready to play week in week out for a team with top 4 aspirations. For me a role as the 3rd winger who is a rotation / bench option makes sense - I know he's well paid (though not on 120k per week; that's only after potential bonuses), but it was a unique situation given Bayern's push. He's still only 19 and would likely get 2000+ minutes in this setup; for context this year he's at just about 950. I think that's a reasonable increase in workload and is unlikely to significantly hamper his development.

Tammy is a different question - he's 3 years older than CHO for one and I just am not sure he'll ever be good enough to lead the line at a top team. I think he'll always be a useful player and deserves to be in the squad, but it's down to him to kick on and improve. That said, I'd also expect him to be in line for at least 2000 minutes next year as well so here's hoping he can learn how to be more clinical & continue to add to his game.

Re: the midfield, I for one would be extremely pleased to see the back of Barkley; he's the most stubborn & inconsistent player I can recall. Gilmour would be unaffected by a potential Havertz deal as he plays at the base of midfield, RLC's role wouldn't change too much as an option off the bench as he continues his recovery from the achilles tear (and frankly given his injury record Chelsea would have to be mad to pencil him in for a much bigger role than this until he can prove his ability to stay fit), and Kovacic remains the versatile player who can fit at any of the 3 spots (and is probably first choice in any midfield pairing). In terms of our academy, the next good prospect we have coming through is Conor Gallagher, but he's untested at the highest level and almost certainly needs a loan to a top flight league before he can be properly assessed. He's been brilliant in the Championship though, at least.
 

Robbie Boy

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They have some good young talent, to be fair to them. Amongst them are the overrated ones of course, but that's par for the course. They've already made two good signings - both potentially really top PL players - in Ziyech and Werner, to already add to a strong squad. They have their weaknesses of course - mainly in defence and I don't rate Abraham tbh - but Lampard has done a decent job and it'll be interesting to see how they kick on next season.

I fancy them to just about get top four with us possibly finishing ahead of them. I reckon it'll be Leicester who will drop out of the top four.
 

duffer

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Well net spend works more or less in same way, club sells bunch of nobodies (who are never part of first team) for desperate club for a decent fee and then somehow turn that into "We didn't spend much, because net spend"

Big clubs rarely lose their best players against their will, like Ronaldo with us, Hazard with you people. Most of the times net spend argument is based on who can sell their squad players and fringe players for good money.

I agree with @WeePat , just take the total transfer cost to assemble the squad on first day of the season and that's the money spent. How you made the money shouldn't matter. End of the day if you have 500 million worth of players, same as Manutd then it shouldn't matter whether you made 500 million by selling players or noodles. This isn't exactly reliable method too as transfer market changes so much every summer, so club that started the rebuild latter end up playing more money.
It's not about making money, it's about the value of the squad.

Does anyone think Chelsea's squad improved because we sold Hazard for £130 million and replaced him with with Pulisic for £58 million? That's mental.
 

ZolaWasMagic

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Those signings would be them spending close to £300 million in one transfer market which I’m pretty sure isn’t going to happen.
You offset it with sales. Ziyech and Werner go onto last years financial books.So for the fiscal year of 20/21 we have yet to spend a penny. Factor in for example, Bakayoko, Drinkwater, Moses, Kenedy, Batshuayi, Emerson or Alonso, Jorginho possibly, Pedro, Willian all leaving. Morata already gone for 50. Pasalic for 15
 

roonster09

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It's not about making money, it's about the value of the squad.

Does anyone think Chelsea's squad improved because we sold Hazard for £130 million and replaced him with with Pulisic for £58 million? That's mental.
It's not about improving the squad, it's about how much money was spent to assemble that squad. You can spend 1 billion and somehow make the squad worse. End of the day you spend 1 billion to assemble that squad.

I'm assuming that's what @WeePat meant, if at the start of the season ManUtd spend 500 million to assemble their squad, same with Chelsea then expectations should be same. Just because Chelsea end up selling bunch of shit players shouldn't mean they didn't spend money to assemble the squad.