Plus 15m for declining the buyback on Boga and another 10m from Real Madrid if they win the league
2019/20 Rivals - Chelsea
- Thread starter AkaAkuma
- Start date
Surprised to see so many talk about Jorginho going. He was all sorts of terrible last season - looked like a fan that won a competition to play for a team tbf - but I thought the consensus amongst Chelsea fans was that he's much improved this season?
@duffer this is the perfect example of what I'm saying. You will end up selling Bakayoko, Drinkwarer, Moses, Kenedy who barely kicked the ball for Chelsea this season and maybe last season too, so selling these players for around 40-50 million and signing Werner for 50 million mean chelsea didn't spend any money?
I see more rumours on this havertz chap today. How likely do we reckon a potential deal is ?
Lets say I buy a car for £20K, sell it for £15K and then buy another one for £25K.
Let's say you buy a car for £20K. You keep that one and buy another for £25K.
Have we both spent £45K on cars? Technically yes. Do we both have £45K of cars? Absolutely not.
He had looked better in a midfield pairing alongside Kovacic, but we were still frightfully open. He's just not physical enough to mark players closely without fouling (10 yellow cards from 27 appearances) and he's not fast enough to guard spaces that open up either side. Lampard seems to want to play 4-3-3 with either Kante or Gilmour playing as the 6, moving side to side to cover behind two more attacking 8s and playing simple passes to release either the wide forwards or the other midfielders. Jorginho just doesn't fit into this role, at least in the PL.
By all accounts we are in pole position. Both Bayern and Real can only do a deal next summer once he's down to a year left on his deal, Havertz is intrigued by London & wants CL football, and Bayer would prefer a larger fee now given COVID (and would rather he go anywhere but Bayern).
I'm sorry but this car analogy is always used during this net spend argument and it never works.
How can you not have 500 million worth of players when you add the transfer costs of your squad and it ends up as 500 million?
I mean it's like Liverpool fans calling Carroll as -15 million player, was he -15 million player or 35 million player?
Just take the transfer sum of your squad and sum it up, same for other squads and then see how much you have spent to assemble that squad. Like I said, you make money by selling players and other clubs make money by selling sponsorship deals and "Football assets" to Australian clubs.
Just sounds a bit football managerish to me - when was the last time a team brought in six 50+ million signings in one transfer market? I personally don't think Frank Lampard would be too keen on that either especially given how much he likes working with young players.
If we spent £500 million on players and those players are in the squad then of course that squad is worth £500 million.
If we've spent £500 million and sold £250 million on players then it's not really a true reflection to say that is a £500 million squad.
That's the point I'm making. Check the transfer cost to assemble the squad (only players who are part of the squad) at the start of the season and expectations should be based on that.
My expectations are based on many, many things. Who we've sold, who the manager is, the age of players, what other sides have done in the market, etc.
If your expectations simply come from "club X spent more than club Y" then fair enough. I can't imagine in reality that is the case though. I don't know how old you are but did you seriously do that when you lost Ronaldo?
Yeah, essentially what I mean is, if after we sold Hazard, the value of the squad that remains to start the season is worth £400m and, say, United's squad is also worth £400m but they didn't have the added [financial] bonus of selling £150m worth of assets beforehand, then Chelsea's net spend for that summer will be £150m less than United's but the total value of both squads will still £400m.
So if both clubs go into the season with squads valued at £400m then the expectations for both clubs can be comparable. If the squad was worth £400m before we sold Hazard, then the worth of the squad to start the season would be £250m, in which case expectations for both clubs will reflect that difference.
There's nuance missing, I freely admit that, but I just think net spend at it's core isn't really a useful tool for a conversation about who should have performed better this season.
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The hell? He pretty much came on and slowed the game down (in a good way) which is what we needed because Palace had us on the ropes.
Aye, he's always looked extremely lightweight and I think it would be a case of either him or Kovacic, because playing both together look as though they are susceptible to being left open. If he does go, I can see him reuniting with Sarri and going to Juve as Serie A clearly suits him a-lot more than the PL.
On Kovacic: He's been very good from what I've seen of him this season.
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Huh? I didn't see the game last night but I said that I've heard he's improved this season?
Are these Hazard and Courtois clauses ? That's a nice little bag of money. I hate Chelsea with a passion but you can only admire the way they sell their players, it's crazy how good they are at it.
Sorry ignore me I thought you said last night, total misread.
That's just a Hazard clause; Courtois we had far less leverage over in order to negotiate these sorts of bonuses. I believe we are also in line for a similar bonus should Real win the CL over this or the next three seasons.
No probs.
Oh wow ok. The CL is obviously harder to get but in 3 years that's a good probability.
Wrapped up Werner and Ziyech.
Havertz looking strong possibility.
Promising for nxt season for them
Havertz looking strong possibility.
Promising for nxt season for them
Well I don't set expectations based on that, I even said in one of the replies that clubs who started rebuilding earlier would have spent less.
My point was that net spend is one of the abused argument, it's mainly used to temper the expectations saying how club haven't spent money when in reality they did.
Yeah Marina is really a wizard at selling players. I'm still blown away that she got the deal she did for Morata from Atleti - €7m loan fee for last season, with €56m obligate fee this summer. Never thought we'd come close to recouping the €66m we spent on him.
Net spend should only be used as an indicator to how well your club operates, not as the sole factor.
Even if you hate net spend, to get good returns on players not performing, underused or transfer listed is great business acumen as value is usually dictated by performances.
Since good old Ed is a bad negotiator there’s no way you would get more than 10-12 mil for Jesse lingard whereas Marina wouldn’t accept less than 18-20
Even if you hate net spend, to get good returns on players not performing, underused or transfer listed is great business acumen as value is usually dictated by performances.
Since good old Ed is a bad negotiator there’s no way you would get more than 10-12 mil for Jesse lingard whereas Marina wouldn’t accept less than 18-20
Maybe Ed was bad at first but we've done well selling the past few years now. It's a bit of a myth.
I'll admit it. @TheReligion 's constant shit throwing at Chelsea was partly responsible for me turning into a City fan (we call ourselves the Citizens) from 2017-19. I think I'll go back to being a Chelsea fanatic after the transfer window because Chelsea are building a solid team for the future. Man Utd are looking good too but my City allegiance means I could never support the rags.
It does sound mental. And mental as it may seem, it's entirely possible, if not likely, that Chelsea at the end of this window could have Werner, Ziyech, Chilwell, Havertz and a CB all signed.
I think Lampard wants to use the youngsters, but he has repeatedly said we need to bring players in and close the gap on City and Liverpool. You only do that by bringing in quality.
yeh, it's almost unhealthy his hatred.
Chelsea made a loss last year of over £100m, if they want to make a few more big name signings their going to have get rid of a few players.
Oh I don't hate Chelsea really. I just think some of the fanbase on here are a bit arrogant/cocky. If anyone dare criticise everyone pops up like an offshoot of the head hunters and try and cut the offending posters jacobs off.yeh, it's almost unhealthy his hatred.
I just like to keep you all grounded
They will and they are quite good at selling. That said post covid I don't think they'll be getting much for flops like Drinkwater, Barkley, Bakayoko, Zappacosta etc
The defence needs serious improvement. If the only defensive buys are Rice at CB and Chilwell, then I am not convinced they can mount a challenge. I don’t see either as massive upgrades.
The Havertz money would be better spent on top drawer talent at the back, rather than a few OK options.
You can only play so much attacking talent at once.
The Havertz money would be better spent on top drawer talent at the back, rather than a few OK options.
You can only play so much attacking talent at once.
No they didn't.
That's more or less the problem - there is little value in the CB market right now. Who could we realistically target that could come in and be a significant upgrade?
Koulibaly - the right profile of player, but he's 29 and ADL would demand €90m+ for him
Skriniar - potentially an upgrade but unlikely given the fallout from Conte's departure
Upamecano - not sure he's an upgrade right now but he has a higher ceiling than our CBs; don't think he's worth €60m+
Ake - also feels like a lateral move; he's also very poor in the air which has been probably the biggest problem for us
Pau Torres - I like him but he's raw; release clause of €50m seems a bit steep. Obvious questions about how he'd adjust & patience would likely be required but an intriguing option overall.
Rice - questions about how good he can become are obvious; unsure of whether he's better at CDM or CB. Potential fee may be offset to some extent by some combination of Barkley going the other way + waiving a potential loan fee for Tomori.
Among those you'd have to say Rice makes the most sense from a Chelsea perspective. That said, a dark horse option that I'd not mind taking a punt on is Thiago Silva on a free. Maybe he can knock some sense into Rudiger / Christensen and teach them how to defend the box properly.
I just think jury is out on Rice at CB. It’s a risky move, but maybe Lampard sees something there. I don’t think Chilwell solves the issue that Alonso has there. I don’t think he is any better as a defender and for the amount needed, I just don’t see him as a good option. Quality is needed there immediately I think.
Koulibaly would at least offer 3 years at a high level and provide someone whose quality will make an impact today. Who knows what could happen and who could be brought in during that time.
It’s a much more pressing issue right now. I think the serious fees/wages are needed there. You looked very good going forward against Palace and that’s before Ziyech and Werner become options.
Maybe looking into Lucas Hernandez availability or offering the Havertz money for Alaba?
Honestly, it was touted at the time that Brighton wanted 50 million for Dunk and people laughed. If Chelsea wanted a proper defender and leader at the back, they could do a lot worse.
Chelsea are really building something. I think since the restart they've looked a bit rusty at times but they do have the belief, the loss against West Ham was a typical derby game where anything can happen. I think Chelsea will get third comfortably.
They look promising for the next season aswell. A few additions to their defence and they can challenge for the title.
They look promising for the next season aswell. A few additions to their defence and they can challenge for the title.
After the whole Jorginho / Sarri transfer fiasco, I'd prefer to stay well away from dealings with ADL. I'd also rather spend the money on Havertz given that he's only 21 and his ceiling is as high as any player in Europe not named Mbappe.
Lucas I'm quite lukewarm on; was injury-prone at Atleti and has been out most of the season at Bayern. Also if we handed them a fat fee they'd just turn around and buy Havertz. Alaba was sounded out in January but wants to stay at Bayern reportedly and they've no incentive to sell him.
I'd personally much rather spend our transfer budget aggressively when players who are world class or at the very least have the potential to grow further become available. I agree that there are still huge questions over Rice (especially at CB) but he fits in with our timeline going forward and his ceiling is certainly higher than Dunk.
Chelsea are also focused on the bigger picture to some extent - the club have a 3 year plan going forward. Next year, the goal is to cement a spot in the top 4 & potentially challenge for cups - more or less Liverpool in 16/17, while we wait for the right targets to become available (Jose Gimenez? Ruben Dias?)
Yeah, I get the point about nailing down world class talents when they are available and interested. That makes sense.
I am not even sure if Rice has a higher ceiling as a CB. It’s a punt, but Lampard obviously sees something. It could prove to be an issue though going into the new season without proven quality there.
Apology accepted.