If a second corona wave hits during November , do you think election can be postponed?
2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress
- Thread starter Raoul
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If its as bad as the first one then probably yes. If its the lesser intense, second wave where there are treatments, mitigations, or possibly a cure, then I would think the election would happen as scheduled.
But then it's a bit of constitutional problem ? Trump must leave office by end January, if none is elected?
It would be a mess for sure, which is why it would take something pretty severe to derail the original date.
Cant get more severe than a global pandemic. Well , maybe a global thermonuclear war. But I'd settle for a game of chess for now.
Delaying it requires an act of Congress, and him staying in office longer actually requires a Constitutional amendment.
Neither are realistically happening, because delaying it requires the Dems to play ball. And delaying within a timeframe to avoid a Constitutional crisis would not get us into the warmer months where hopefully the spread would die down.
I just can't see Biden winning, because I think we'll just be tormented with his horrific ramblings on too many occasions between now and election day. My bet is we'll see an incredibly low participation rate, with Trump winning.
That could happen, but my best guess is we may see an unusually high turnout because of everything that is at stake, which generally favors the Dem candidate.
Yes, yes, we get it. You were looking for someone to to reply "What ever do you mean Dante? Please enlighten us!", letting you get your predictable digs in about Bernie Bros (TM). Instead someone engaged you in an actual discussion, the wickedest of sins.
What the feck are you on about?
My original post was easy to understand. It was about whether it's correct to abstain from voting purely because your favourite candidate isn't on the ballot.
You're either being deliberately obtuse or accidentally stupid.
Which administration built the cages?
Your original post was very simple:
This seemed like a good starting point for a discussion on the intersection between Bernie supporters and Green Party voters, and the larger issue of whether or not Bernie supporters would vote for Biden - and if they wouldn't, what that said about the concept of the "lesser evil" in American politics. Some people certainly treated it like that. But it quickly became clear you weren't actually looking for that discussion, you were actually just looking for an opportunity to use your mildly clever line about caged-up children. I mean, it was clever, just maybe not as clever as it sounded in your head. Speaking of...
Isn't "accidentally stupid" just a wordy way of saying stupid? Why can't I be accidentally obtuse or deliberately stupid? That sounds much nicer.
??????
People vote for their favorite candidate o someone they can relate to. That's the only correct way to vote.
Why would you vote for someone who go against everything you are standing for? weird...
These purity bros are sickening. Don't let one a candidate who committed one sexual assault be the enemy of a candidate who committed five sexual assaults.
It wasn't clever and wasn't trying to be.
Once again, what the feck are you on about? The discussion never went in the direction of "the lesser evil". It went in the direction of fundamentally misunderstanding the point. So I tried to bring it back on track.
If everyone who replies to you is fundamentally misunderstanding the point, that should be a clue that maybe your post was too ambiguously worded. It would have been much simpler if you just right away specified that you were talking about a very specific group of voters, and not actually "Bernie supporters". That way you wouldn't have to spend the next page and a half berating people for discussing Bernie supporters.
Even if that leaves the path open for Trump?
There are three options here as I see it. They go with principle (vote Green), prudence (vote Biden) or acquiesce to Trump (abstain). If Bernie supporters have a particular progressive agenda, then abstaining is the worst possible option as it makes achieving that agenda more difficult in the future. A vote for the Greens will at least send a message on the national stage, whilst a vote for Biden will stop Trump from taking the the country in the opposite direction.
You're in Australia. Do you disagree with compulsory voting?
It was one person who misunderstood.
And the phrase was 'Bernie or bust' not 'Bernie supporters', ie. the people who'll sit at home on election day because they're unwilling to countenance any other possible candidate.
The route to progress doesn't have to be through a single candidate. Sometimes it needs to be achieved by stopping a different candidate from taking office.
This would depend on whether a voter is Bernie or Bust or just an ordinary progressive, or an independent who was in some way attracted to the Sanders platform.
But the Bernie platform is antithetical to the Trump one. Whereas Biden's platform is at the very least neutral and the Green party platform is relatively similar.
Abstaining from voting is clearing the way for the platform that you most disagree with, rather than at least helping the platforms with which you might share some ideas. It doesn't make logical sense to abstain.
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https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrant...aclu-and-partners-file-suit-against-us-border
The fact is that liberals don't care about kids in cages. They don't care about drone strikes of wedding parties. They don't care about sexual assault or metoo. They don't care about the environment. They don't care about the working class.
Its always the same cycle. When a Democrat is in power, they continue the same abuses and rapacious policies that Republicans do. When a republican is in power, they claim a moral high ground. When there is an election, they cynically deploy it as a cudgel against the left, gleefully ignoring their own history of abuses.
The fact is that liberals don't care about kids in cages. They don't care about drone strikes of wedding parties. They don't care about sexual assault or metoo. They don't care about the environment. They don't care about the working class.
Its always the same cycle. When a Democrat is in power, they continue the same abuses and rapacious policies that Republicans do. When a republican is in power, they claim a moral high ground. When there is an election, they cynically deploy it as a cudgel against the left, gleefully ignoring their own history of abuses.
What if someone thinks the entire American system is fundamentally broken (labour relations, welfare inequality, health system, the works)? At that point, voting for the lesser evil just because it's the lesser evil might be better in the short term, but in the long term it also perpetuates a broken system. I wouldn't really accept this argument when it comes to Norwegian politics (because we've got a pretty well-designed and open system), but the American system is practically designed to resist change.
You're right in that abstaining doesn't buy you any political leverage after the election.
The Bernie and Trump platforms are antithetical, except in areas related to free trade and a desire to repatriate manufacturing jobs, although both of them disagree on how to do it.
Bernie would be more ethical than Biden. Sure, I don't disagree.https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrant...aclu-and-partners-file-suit-against-us-border
The fact is that liberals don't care about kids in cages. They don't care about drone strikes of wedding parties. They don't care about sexual assault or metoo. They don't care about the environment. They don't care about the working class.
Its always the same cycle. When a Democrat is in power, they continue the same abuses and rapacious policies that Republicans do. When a republican is in power, they claim a moral high ground. When there is an election, they cynically deploy it as a cudgel against the left, gleefully ignoring their own history of abuses.
But if Trump is in charge for another 4 years, it's likely that the Supreme Court will become even more conservative and that the overall political infrastructure will be bent further to the right.
Biden has his faults, but the Democrats at least care enough to listen to objections about kids in cages. Their base will demand it. Meanwhile, the Republicans have been more than willing to double down on the issue.
Would a Biden presidency solve everything? Of course not. But pragmatically speaking, he'll slow the decline (as seen from the liberal perspective).
And if it principles that matter more to you than pragmatism, the Greens seem like the best fit. A vote for them will send a message to the two main parties that there are votes out there for the taking.
Whatever the case, an abstinence will make the chance of Trump getting a second term more likely. That's objectively a worse outcome for any progressive, surely?
Oh and the kicker is that even if she had won there would still be family separation and kids in cages, except you'd have the people who came up with Facebook bumper stickers keeping track of them.
Bit bummed out by Bernie officially ending his campaign. He was by far the better and more inspirational person of them all.
I watched him being interviewed by Colbert and what struck me was how hesitant he was to endorse Biden. I would have a hard time voting for Biden myself, which I’m sure is the case for many Bernie supporters, but I would definately do it just to get rid of Trump.
It’s impressive that in a country of so many, the two candidates for President will be Trump and Biden.
I watched him being interviewed by Colbert and what struck me was how hesitant he was to endorse Biden. I would have a hard time voting for Biden myself, which I’m sure is the case for many Bernie supporters, but I would definately do it just to get rid of Trump.
It’s impressive that in a country of so many, the two candidates for President will be Trump and Biden.
They literally do not care. You are deluded if you think so. They only pretend to care when they want your vote then they go right back to not caring.
You've explained it to yourself there.
Abstaining won't fix a system that resists change. So worrying about perpetuating it when it's broken is moot.
If pragmatism is the driver, Biden will keep America treading water. Sure, Bernie could have taken it in the right direction, but it should be paramount not to let Trump take it in the wrong direction.
If principle is the driver, vote Green. You're right that it won't change anything, but principles without pragmatism never do. And if those principles are what's stopping the 'Bernie or bust' crowd from voting in November, it becomes self-defeating.
Prudence = vote for Biden? That's going too far. He is just another big corporation status quo preserver puppet.
If I were a "Bernie Bro" I would have only two options. Stay home or vote green. Personally, I would probably go and vote green, but wouldn't vilify those who stayed home.
I'm in Chile now, and we have had both systems during my lifetime. I'm definitely not against compulsory voting, on the contrary to be fair. Compulsory voting doesn't mean you are forced to pick a candidate.
I've not vilified anyone. I've only said that the stance of 'Bernie or bust' doesn't make logical sense.
How do you square the two bolded statements?
Of course it makes sense from a DNC primary perspective.
Once a candidate has been elected, "bernie or bust" isn't a thing anymore. Bernie is not a candidate anymore.
Now it's about voting for someone who earned your vote. You can't categorize the 100% of the bernie or bust members, sorry.
Some will vote Green, some will stay home, and some will even vote for Biden.
And the two bolded statements can be easily squared. In USA there is no compulsory voting, so why would I be mad with someone with no preferred candidate, who didn't went to vote?
I would definitely prefer they went and draw a big dick in the ballot or vote green, but to each their own, specially if thats the system you work on.
Officially not a registered Democrat anymore. Feels great to be free.
Yeah it absolutely suck that Bernie lost out again, but can anyone really face another 4 years of Trump? Just bite your lips and vote for Biden for fecks sake, he sucks but seriously Trump is going to happen again unless people deal with it.
Voters are never wrong though
A vote for Biden is a vote for white nationalism. Just a softer version of it.
Why would I vote when both candidates reinforce the same idealogy?
Because you’re into some vague idea of democracy being maintained, and possibly the environment being saved.
100% true.
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