good luck with it. Already made that mistake in 2016 voting for HRC, not gonna happen again.
2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress
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Well it will happen again if enough people have that attitude.
So, congratulations...?
Unless there is an alternate United States that doesn’t wage endless wars or put children in cages...none of this is new or groundbreaking.
Come on man, Biden isn't going to save the environment.
If there’s one candidate who’s NOT going to save the environment, it’s Biden. The guy is as corporate as they come. His platform is the same as Hilary, just without her baggage.
I would put higher stake in Beto or Buttgieg or one of those lot doing something for the environment, than I would Biden (Hint, I wouldn’t expect them to do terribly much either).
It also isn’t a coincidence that the guy who fought to imprison and destroy thousands of black lives has supporters boasting that black people support him. That is literally how white nationalism and white supremacy survive through the ages.
There is no reason to vote for Biden in heavy blue states. Progressives in those states can rightfully protest the creepy ghoul all they like. The idea that there is some kind of morality test to "making sure you vote biden in Cali and NY" is a nonsense. All that matters is the progressive wing doesn't sit out in the swing states and votes democratic down ticket. To do that, you've got to appeal to them on policy. They don't care about biden faux-values in his twitter post, that want movement on his healthcare/climate policies because (rightly or wrongly) if we are talking about the hardcore progressives, arguments about Trump don't cut it to the group that believe "we've always been fecked over, Biden will continue to feck us over, nothing matters".
in a situation where a second wave is as intense as the first, yet they still hold the election, the enthusiasm gap is going to be a huge issue.
Many of them won't vote for him in either case since they are dogmatically fixated on Sanders policies. So Biden saying he will shore up Obamacare, reduce the Medicare age to 60, and rejoin the Paris accords, won't be enough for these people, although it will help him with independents.
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there is a good chunk that won't no matter what, agreed. But come on, people already want to blame the progressives for any hypothetical biden loss and the best compromise is medicare at 60? There is a huge gap on healthcare and climate policy where biden can move and still be nothing like a sanders policy. And if the talking point is "they'll run negative ads", i mean then you might as well get out of politics. Trump is going to call Biden a communist for the "compromises" he's made already, who cares?
I don't disagree with this. I just don't believe progressives will turn out for Biden irrespective of what he says. A small number who view getting rid of Trump as paramount may, but a majority won't which is why I think Biden will be focusing more on independents, where a majority of the votes are. A secondary problem of suddenly promising progressive policies is they would never be implemented for the same reason Sanders policies would never be implemented - the conditions in congress simply aren't there to push them through. Therefore Biden would simply be making hollow overtures on policies he would never be able to deliver.
"Progressives" turned out on par or better for HRC than HRC voters did for Obama. The echo online chamber is not representative, but i would concede the number of progressives sitting out will be higher this time. The flip side of this is, it simply does not matter for Biden if the protest vote is higher in NY/Cali or deep blue states because the swing states were absolutely emphatic Biden wins this time. You just don't want progressives sitting out in the swing states and that is where some movement on policy is needed.
You don't have to just "adopt progressive policies" but you can still move beyond the tiniest concessions and win over some people.
Biden may never get progressive policies through a GOP congress. I'd also argue if that level of defeatism is going to be the norm of policy-decision making, then none of Biden's "currently more progressive than Obama" policies would ever get through, so you might as well win over some voters in the GE then have that debate?
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Momentum matters too. If people in NY and Cali are sitting around talking about how they’re not going to vote for him, then that’s going to bleed out into other states too.
As shit as Biden is, there are major policy reasons to vote for him when the only alternative is Trump. I know it won’t help progressives get change, but another 4 years of Trump and the SC is fecked for a generation. Seriously this time.
At the end of the day we are only talking about a handful of states - WI, MI, PA, OH, NC - maybe one or two more, so the focus will be on what voters in those states are most interested in. I can't see Biden going much further left on his policies because he probably thinks he can pass a few things while in office and the further left he goes the less likely he will be able to get anything through and the more political capital he will blow attempting to do so.
Clinton won California by close to 4 million votes, Greens + Sanders write in's were 2.5% of the vote.
Clinton won NY by close to 2 million votes, greens vote + write ins were 2% of the vote.
Clinton didn't lose the swing states because of progressive apathy bleeding across state lines, she lost them because she's a crap politician and biden is perhaps worse.
Again, for the folks who believe "trump has fecked us, biden will continue to feck is, there is no point to voting democrat", the supreme court is not convincing. These hardcore types already argue Biden will put a "moderate republican" on the Supreme court. i'd rather you get progressives out there voting 3rd party and democratic down ticket in places in Cali and NY than just sitting at home and i'd rather see some movement on biden policies (more than what we've seen) to sure up the swing state vote for biden.
I seriously doubt anyone who doesn't plan on voting for President or who has a passive interest in voting Green will make the effort to leave the house, especially in this COVID year, to even bother show up at the polls.
As for policy, the CNN poll release the other day had Biden beating Trump in most subcategories except the economy, which was pretty close, so at the end of the day, he is probably going to take actions that reinforce his lead in each of these categories. If he does, he has a good chance of winning.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/09/politics/cnn-poll-biden-trump/index.html
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There is no policy Biden could promise that would make me vote for him. I won't vote for a rapist.
The longer this crisis goes on, the more I think Whitmer might end up being the choice.
But currently if I’m putting money on it the pick would be Klobuchar.
I just wish I can ignore you and live happily ever after
hes a rapist.I just wish I can ignore you and live happily ever after
It’s not about saving it in one fell swoop, it’s about stopping the bleeding. These massive energy and mining projects have an inertia all their own once enough money is behind them. They won’t just suddenly stop once a liberal savior is voted in after they have 4 more years of progress.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...e-moves-step-closer-to-approval-idUSKCN1QA041
I agree. Anyone claiming Biden is equivalent to Trump on the environment (or anything else) isn't being honest. It's a bizarre stance.
Joe Biden can't stop his own memories from bleeding let alone the government
It's extremely insulting to point at people like Biden who have spent their entire careers licking corporate ass, who was part of an Obama administration which gleefully ramped up the production of nonrenewable energy and telling people "well, if you care for the environment you HAVE TO vote for him"
this also applies to the supreme court, Joe's not only responsible for installing one of the two rapists on the supreme court but the last person he was involved in nominating was merrick gardland, is this really our judicial hero?
see also joe's tireless work to help creditors take your money if after you've gone bankrupt
and joe literally being a rapist himself
like holy shit this is a bad person
this also applies to the supreme court, Joe's not only responsible for installing one of the two rapists on the supreme court but the last person he was involved in nominating was merrick gardland, is this really our judicial hero?
see also joe's tireless work to help creditors take your money if after you've gone bankrupt
and joe literally being a rapist himself
like holy shit this is a bad person
*Alleged (I thought the site had to be careful about throwing accusations around like this?)
Do you honestly think Trump will be better for the environment than Biden?
Edit: I had a shocker there on Garland. Not sure who I was thinking of! Back for more coffee for me. Anyhow, what's your concern with Biden and Garland?
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Democrats have also unanimously confirmed the majority of other conservative judges because they're a very conservative party who only care about judicial appointments when they need to threaten you with something. The republicans do care about judicial appointments, and if i was a reactionary I would hold my nose and vote for republicans i don't like for judicial appointments, because they act on it, and quite aggressively. If the dems want to make these judicial threats, they shouldn't have spent decades proving they don't give a shit.
Ditto on the environment. Joe's a fake friend, the major difference between democratic and republican environmental policy is that the republican party doesn't have any pretences. They'll tell you to your face, we will feck the environment for money. The democrats will do that too, but apparently it's fine because they'll make some empty gestures and encourage people to recycle. It's not enough.
he's definitely a rapist
So you believe Trump and Biden (or any other democrat) are equally as bad on the environment?
is this really the only thing you're capable of thinking? you honestly can't imagine someone saying "x is bad" without it meaning "y is good"?
no actual defence of biden, nothing he'll do for the environment, just orange man bad?
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orange man bad, pale man bad, vote green if you're a tree hugger
Have we forgotten the small detail of there only being two fecking choices? If you don’t get Joe Biden and the Democrats, you get Donald Trump again and the Republicans. Yes Biden and the Dems are shit, but they are STILL a million times better than the psychopathic cnuts currently in power.
Jesus Christ, so Biden might nominate someone quite right wing? Yes, and Trump will likely nominate a fundamental Christian who thinks that women should be kept barefoot in the kitchen and blacks did fine under Jim Crow. Seriously, this is not a like for like fecking comparison, did the last election not prove that beyond doubt?!
And Bidens behaviour towards women? Have we already forgotten about Trump and his bestie Jeffrey Epstein not to mention the countless rape allegations?
Weird you can't answer the question.
because people like you are cowards who keep giving the dems votes without demanding anything in return, don't be a coward, demand more
the last election proved beyond doubt that the democratic party is wortheless
idk bro, no rape > any amount of rape
joe biden will continue the wholesale destruction of the environment, any serious environmentalist must vote for someone better, orange man also destroying the environment is a good argument for not voting for orange man, it's not enough to turn people to pale man
Still haven't answered the question
Real vote winning argument you've here.
I know it's a lost cause just like trying to speak sense to a trump voter.
i'm going to vote for trump so many times bro, i'm going to move to america and do a whole bunch of voter fraud for orange daddy
centrists really are the worst, they can't imagine someone having an ideology that doesn't fit their narrow "x or y that's all you get bucko" world, and that's going to get us all killed in the end as the oceans die and our dirt becomes barren
centrists really are the worst, they can't imagine someone having an ideology that doesn't fit their narrow "x or y that's all you get bucko" world, and that's going to get us all killed in the end as the oceans die and our dirt becomes barren
on votingI'm afraid it's reality in this crappy two party system. I'm no centrist by the way. Pretty sure I'm called a commie behind my back. But I'm a realist. Trump will set us back decades more on the environment. He already did starting day 1.
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The problem you have is the lesser of two evils argument doesn't work when it comes to climate change. You can't tackle it with only using half measures, 4-8 years wasted on the getting the paris agreement back will be about as effective as Trump current climate plans.
You're arguing that we should use a cup of water to put out a forrest fire because the current administration is ignoring the existence of the fire. Yes the cup of water is better than doing nothing at all but in the grand scheme of things, it's pretty useless.
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