63% of Liverpool squad "asthmatic" - any substance to this article?

[DWelbz19]

Very suspect.

 

[Lay]

Shock horror. It’s crazy how they can keep up that pace game after game without some sort of doping.

 

[Gythio]

It would be naive to think that their pressing ability and the distances they cover during a match is solely a result of good training and ”playing with passion”. As if other top clubs don’t have access to the best facilities, coaches and knowledge about how to improve stamina and avoid injuries.

A bit like when Leicester won the league and had five or six players in the top ten list of distance covered during the season, only to mysteriously lose that ability the next season. I think there’s definitely some truth in the article.

 

[Sandikan]

Sounds an absolute mishmash of hear say, conjecture and total lack of any evidence.

I bet he could get into a lot of trouble with his one actual statement that 20 odd of the squad are asthmatic.

That must be easily investigated and if true needs an explanation.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

The rate of asthma in the general population, according to the CDC, is around 8%.

63% of Liverpool's squad is diagnosed as asthmatic.

Must be some shit air in Liverpool or they are abusing prescription drugs to enhance their performance.

 

[DickDastardly]

The unbreatheables!

Ahhahaha

 

[iHicksy]

Just read this article:

http://backpagefootball.com/why-liverpool-wont-win-the-premier-league-this-season/126313/

Some bold but unsurprising claims. But this bit stood out:



Anyone else heard this anywhere?

Easy to know what's been insinuated, but I guess all clubs are at it anyway.

So there are several medications that can be taken in tablet form if you have "asthma". What these do in simplistic terms is smooth the airways of the lungs. This allows the athlete to perform cardio for periods of time and intensities that would have been previously difficult, much, much easier. You might have heard of clenbuterol which is used in cycling. But there are other less harsh, asthmatic drugs, which act in the same way and provide the same performance boosts. Just sayin'.

 

[TheGodsInRed]

In professional cycling and loads of the riders are asthmatic. Thing is, when they say asthmatic this is exercise induced asthma, which most people are. Chris Froome won the Tour De France with help from an inhaler. In cycling if you take too many sprays you can get booted out of the race.

I heard like 90% of the US athletic team are asthmatic too. It’s the biggest con going, but if you smash yourself to exhaustion on a training bike till you are struggling to breathe, chances are there will be symptoms of asthma. So they do this is in a lab, then get tested by the doctor.

All you need is a doctor to tell you you’re asthmatic, then submit your doctors note to WADA and you get to take your performance enhancing drug pretty much when you like.

 

[lsd]

It is amazing the amount of Athletes who are asthmatic

 

[DatIrishFella]

So half time comes around, they have a little half time puff and hey, more energy.

Would explain their fitness levels.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

The mainstream press won’t jump on this because it doesn’t fit their narrative at all.

 

[Kasper]

Happy for a bigger focus of PEDs in football by journalists but that article is one heck of a trainwreck. What is he even rambling about caffeine all the time? A theory that Pool would ease off this season deliberately because their players would collapse by overdoing caffeine doping? Yes, that seems very reasonable...
I`d be curious if there`s transparancy of how many players have "asthma" or how properly they check on EPO or if their hematocrit is being traced? But that source seems quite random.

 

[VeevaVee]

Well...it’s certainly believable

 

[Paxi]

It’s only a matter of time before someone blows the lid on doping in football. Not just in Liverpool but in all football at the highest levels. I also have absolutely no evidence to prove this.

 

[NotThatSoph]

The rate of asthma in the general population, according to the CDC, is around 8%.

63% of Liverpool's squad is diagnosed as asthmatic.

Must be some shit air in Liverpool or they are abusing prescription drugs to enhance their performance.

I assume you're joking around, but even looking past that this article is fantasy you can't compare numbers like that. Unless you're saying that basically every elite club, football or not, are abusing prescription drugs. That may be true, for all I know.

 

[dumbo]

Certainly an intriguing idea.

However, is the claim true? and is this practise of seemingly hypersensitive diagnoses widespread throughout football?

Athletics and cycling are a joke when it comes to this stuff, can we throw football in there too, or preferably just Liverpool?

 

[CiroDiMarzio]

The omerta around PEDs in football is truly baffling to me. Drug use, along with asthma epidemics and other dodgy theraputic use exceptions, are clearly completely rampant in the sport, but there is an almost total willing ignorance at every single level from journalists, anti-doping orgs, leagues, football associations etc. It's even more difficult to understand given the number of people involved. Money talks obviously, but surely someday someone has to lift the lid on it.

 

[UweBein]

We get a TON of stick from other countries back here in Norway because literally every winter sports athlete we have is allegedly asthmatic, to which they receive medicine. Heck, they even offered medicine to the athletes without asthma because it enhances their performance.

At times I've heard the effect is bit like running EPO, but I have no idea about any of this.

The effect can be dramatic. When I took cortisone for 3 months, I could ride my bike full speed for 15-20 minutes - hardly any fatigue afterwards. Without cortisone, I could last 5-10 minutes - and was really exhausted. Now, I heard the effect is not the same for everyone..,

 

[Beans]

I believe the Spanish doctor who said he doped Barca

 

[Bazi]

It’s only a matter of time before someone blows the lid on doping in football. Not just in Liverpool but in all football at the highest levels. I also have absolutely no evidence to prove this.

The monetary incentives to dope are nowhere higher than in football, the endurance and recovery benefits massive similar to cycling and the players can afford the best stuff that doesn't get detected. Yet somehow we are told the sport is among the cleanest in the world.

Doesn't really add up, does it?

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

The monetary incentives to dope are nowhere higher than in football, the endurance and recovery benefits massive similar to cycling and the players can afford the best stuff that doesn't get detected. Yet somehow we are told the sport is among the cleanest in the world.

Doesn't really add up, does it?

Agree it is certainly not clean. We see how much faster the game goes now compared to 20 years ago. Yet there is less rest and more games it seems.

 

[JPRouve]

The monetary incentives to dope are nowhere higher than in football, the endurance and recovery benefits massive similar to cycling and the players can afford the best stuff that doesn't get detected. Yet somehow we are told the sport is among the cleanest in the world.

Doesn't really add up, does it?

Players are barely tested compared to other sports, so the claim that it's among the cleanest is dubious.

 

[Paxi]

The monetary incentives to dope are nowhere higher than in football, the endurance and recovery benefits massive similar to cycling and the players can afford the best stuff that doesn't get detected. Yet somehow we are told the sport is among the cleanest in the world.

Doesn't really add up, does it?

Yeah it certainly makes you think. But I think if everyone is doping then it evens the playing field anyway doesn’t it? I don’t know too much about how it works to be honest but I’m assuming if everyone is doing it then everyone is getting the benefit.

 

[NotThatSoph]

Yeah it certainly makes you think. But I think if everyone is doping then it evens the playing field anyway doesn’t it? I don’t know too much about how it works to be honest but I’m assuming if everyone is doing it then everyone is getting the benefit.

It's a question of framing. People don't respond equally to doping, so it would be equal in the sense that you wouldn't expect clubs to have an advantage over other clubs (except that richer clubs would afford better/safer stuff), but the best players would very possibly not be the same.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

I assume you're joking around, but even looking past that this article is fantasy you can't compare numbers like that. Unless you're saying that basically every elite club, football or not, are abusing prescription drugs. That may be true, for all I know.

One would expect elite athletes to be less affected by the condition than the general population. Hard to get to the top as an athlete when your can't breathe normally.

Like @TheGodsInRed said, they likely over train to create the condition in an acute state, get the diagnosis and prescription sorted and then puff away before the match and at halftime. It's not like we're going to find Liverpool players lying on the tarmack at a shopping mall gasping for air like I used to. As such, I'm happy to throw the 'cheat' allegation out there.

 

[JPRouve]

One would expect elite athletes to be less affected by the condition than the general population. Hard to get to the top as an athlete when your can't breathe normally.

Like @TheGodsInRed said, they likely over train to create the condition in an acute state, get the diagnosis and prescription sorted and then puff away before the match and at halftime. It's not like we're going to find Liverpool players lying on the tarmack at a shopping mall gasping for air like I used to. As such, I'm happy to throw the 'cheat' allegation out there.

Why do you have tarmac in shopping malls?

 

[NotThatSoph]

One would expect elite athletes to be less affected by the condition than the general population. Hard to get to the top as an athlete when your can't breathe normally.

Like @TheGodsInRed said, they likely over train to create the condition in an acute state, get the diagnosis and prescription sorted and then puff away before the match and at halftime. It's not like we're going to find Liverpool players lying on the tarmack at a shopping mall gasping for air like I used to. As such, I'm happy to throw the 'cheat' allegation out there.

Maybe, but generally top athletes have asthma rates at least 2-3 times higher than the general population, so those expectations would be wrong.

I'm 95 % sure that the share of United players with asthma is drastically higher than 10 %. It might not be 60 %, but this article being as bad as it is it wouldn't surprise me if it isn't 60 for Pool either (nor would it surprise me if it was).

If you're willing to condemn United as cheaters if the squad is drastically higher than 8 % then by all means, but be prepared for disappointment.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

I remember there was one game between City-Liverpool that barely looked real a few years ago, reminded me of cycling after the Festina scandal and what they used to say about Lance Armstrong. Bernardo Silva running 13.7km in one game and City players running like maniacs but Liverpool matching them the whole way. If something like that happened in other sports, it would be questioned. But nobody ever says anything, or even wants it to be a story. It does feel like football is too big to fail in that way, there is too much money involved and no appetite to expose that kind of cheating.

 

[NotThatSoph]

I remember there was one game between City-Liverpool that barely looked real a few years ago, reminded me of cycling after the Festina scandal and what they used to say about Lance Armstrong. Bernardo Silva running 13.7km in one game and City players running like maniacs but Liverpool matching them the whole way. If something like that happened in other sports, it would be questioned. But nobody ever says anything, or even wants it to be a story. It does feel like football is too big to fail in that way, there is too much money involved and no appetite to expose that kind of cheating.

You're going to want something a lot stronger than salbutamol for effects like that.

 

[VeevaVee]

Yeah it certainly makes you think. But I think if everyone is doping then it evens the playing field anyway doesn’t it? I don’t know too much about how it works to be honest but I’m assuming if everyone is doing it then everyone is getting the benefit.

I think the issue is with how prepared the club is to risk health, plus some may have more morals or have been left behind, or don’t have access to the ‘best’ doctors.

I mean, surely we’re behind on it, looking at the state of our fitness and injury record.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Maybe, but generally top athletes have asthma rates at least 2-3 times higher than the general population, so those expectations would be wrong.

I'm 95 % sure that the share of United players with asthma is drastically higher than 10 %. It might not be 60 %, but this article being as bad as it is it wouldn't surprise me if it isn't 60 for Pool either (nor would it surprise me if it was).

If you're willing to condemn United as cheaters if the squad is drastically higher than 8 % then by all means, but be prepared for disappointment.

A 2011 study pegged the rate at 8% among Olympic athletes, the same as the general population.

That said there is a suggestion that an intense warmup can trigger a refractory period where your lung function is enhanced and you won't have an attack. Maybe Klopp and Pep intentionally sign players who have asthma or train them into the ground until they develop it to benefit from this. This argument also suggests that asthma drugs don't contribute to performance enhancement. I guess we'll see.

 

[NotThatSoph]

A 2011 study pegged the rate at 8% among Olympic athletes, the same as the general population.

That said there is a suggestion that an intense warmup can trigger a refractory period where your lung function is enhanced and you won't have an attack. Maybe Klopp and Pep intentionally sign players who have asthma or train them into the ground until they develop it to benefit from this. This argument also suggests that asthma drugs don't contribute to performance enhancement. I guess, we'll see.

Ok, I'm not going to claim to be an expert here. This report lists team GB 2004 and US 1996 at around 20 %, but maybe that was a coincidence or they were drastically cheating. Also I'm from Norway, the exercise induced asthma capital of the world.

 

[Lennon7]

I know 2 people who was pretty high up as junior cross country skiers in Norway. Both had asthma combined with pollen in the summer. They were urged to use the medicine even at winter time because of the pros i gave.
Its almost like leagal doping i guess.

What medicine? Asking as sufferer of those things

 

[NotThatSoph]

What medicine? Asking as sufferer of those things

Salbutamol/Ventolin.

 

[Red Stone]

And it was deemed fishy.

It's cycling. Being fishy is like a minimum requirement.

And I say that as a massive cycling fan. I just know what I'm actually watching, and it ain't clean athletes doing their honest best.

 

[RobinLFC]

So we're doing something legal that gives us a competitive edge? I'm all for it and other teams would be stupid not to walk the line of what's allowed and what not.

 

[NotThatSoph]

So we're doing something legal that gives us a competitive edge? I'm all for it and other teams would be stupid not to walk the line of what's allowed and what not.

Which is why you're very probably not.

 

[RobinLFC]

Which is why you're very probably not.

What do you mean?

 

[NotThatSoph]

What do you mean?

You're not taking advantage of an asthma loophole that other filthy rich clubs don't know about, every filthy rich professional club would do the same. So, either you're not doing something different, or you are but it's proper cheating and the guy writing an article like this wouldn't know anything about it. Obviously the guy is a fraud anyway (can only dope "safely" for two years? Get the feck out of here).

 

[RobinLFC]

You're not taking advantage of an asthma loophole that other filthy rich clubs don't know about, every filthy rich professional club would do the same. So, either you're not doing something different, or you are but it's proper cheating and the guy writing an article like this wouldn't know anything about it. Obviously the guy is a fraud anyway (can only dope "safely" for two years? Get the feck out of here).

Yeah so we agree with each other, I think. And I think it's the bolded part that's true.