He is fully aware of the Scholes and Giggs issues but he is a stubborn 70 year old man he is bound to be sentimental and it obviously hurts him leaving them on the bench for long periods hence him trying to get them involved as often as he can allow it. Take the Sunderland game for example we are cruising and he just have to bring on Scholes and Giggs as soon as he notices that. I sometimes wish he ran United like Real,Milan and Juve. Once a club legend is really past it they basically say thank you now feck off like they did with Raul,Hierro, Del Piero etc. But that's not how Fergie deals with people except when they cross him.Nah, he'll just start picking them ahead of Anderson and Cleverley aswell.
I refuse to believe he can't see what's going on. I think he's just trying to get away with it in certain games, but for some reason keeps picking stupid games to try it in, or faffing around with the rest of the team at the same time.
Another silly team will emerge from the tunnel against West Brom. I'd almost put money on it. I still remember NYE last year, watching the players come out of the tunnel without at that point knowing the line up, and knowing instantly that despite Michael Carrick being the only midfielder to walk out, he wasn't going to be playing in midfield. This is not something anyone should ever be able to say.
7 points clear after 19 games...
- Thread starter Ole'sbodyguard
- Start date
You're not implying we should might've got a midfielder in the summer instead of a bunch of playmakers, a striker and a South Park-character? Surely not.
Milan? really? could not have picked a worse example than Milan.
I was thinking about this last game when Giggs sold a perfect dummy from a standing start and made his man look like a complete arse... he'll still be able to do that at 60.
I wonder if Charlton can still leather the crap out of the ball from 40 yards? His hips might have lost a bit of flexibility, but then again the balls are much lighter now...
As for Robbo, I suspect the only thing he can still do as well as he could 20 years ago is kick people in the shins.
Has anyone ever, ever said Ferguson is sentimental? Most say the entire opposite.
Well, since the ability to actually move is no longer a pre-requisite for playing in a midfield two at United I'd say give them a shot alongside Carrick.
Then blame Carrick for being shit.
Then blame Carrick for being shit.
Yeah. Though I do wonder if as far as Scholes is concerned he simply can't see the immobility. Sentimental he may not be but we all have our blindnesses. (Including Scholes, who actually briefly went blind about 5 years before he retired.)
Yeah, he's a terrible manager. We should have sacked him 25 years ago.
Fergie has pretty much stopped starting Giggs and Scholes in the big games in that respect, so he isn't sentimental in that regard. He probably realises we don't have much option other occasionally player them as Anderson and Cleverley are well known crocks and there are major doubts over Fletcher. Young and Valencia both being in bad form isn't helping either. Either way I don't Scholes and Giggs will be at Old Trafford in a playing capacity next season. It would be ideal if they left in January so we could bring in reinforcements but I don't think there service at the club deserves being forced out mid-season.
I don't see why he couldn't have tried to address this situation 3 years ago, when it was already becoming a very obvious problem. Since then all we've done to address it is let one of the most promising young midfielders in the world leave.
I don't think he wants to use them in a 3 because he's worried about blunting the attack. It's the strikers who've mostly been bailing us out.
I can see the value in keeping Scholes and Giggs around as long as possible. I'd also say they've earn't the right to leave/retire on their own terms. It's just that, playing someone who can't run in the one position where you have to cover the most ground of anyone on the pitch, or else your team probably lose. You just sort of, well, shouldn't do this. Ever.
He is sentimental though. He has been for a while. It's not necessarily always a bad thing either. Ole has benefitted from it. He lets former players train with the squad to regain their fitness. He sends good luck letters to David fecking Bellion.
I'd be more than happy to see Giggs in the squad next season, so long as he's used right.
Scholes I'm not so sure. But he may well surprise us all in the second half of the season.
The only concern? What about the fact that no-one in the top 13 out of 20 has conceded more than us. Even West Ham, Norwich, Sunderland and Liverpool have tighter defences than we do.
Still, would have taken 7 points clear at the halfway point at the start of the year, but we need to sort it out at the back.
And in the middle, which is half the problem.
Agreed. I guess it is the forward line that this the only thing people aren't moaning about...er, except Valencia's limitations, Welbeck's lack of clinicalness (made up word), where for art though Nani, Hernandez's link up play etc...
Feck, this team does feel like it is overachieving though in the sense that we benefited from Chelsea's disarray and City's bizarre slump in form. Would hate to think people are seeing the title as done and dusted yet.
Edit:
Less than us obviously. My bad.
We've been pretty shite. But so has everyone else, and we have some great players and an amazing club mentality springing mainly from Fergie.Agreed. I guess it is the forward line that this the only thing people aren't moaning about...er, except Valencia's limitations, Welbeck's lack of clinicalness (made up word), where for art though Nani, Hernandez's link up play etc...
Feck, this team does feel like it is overachieving though in the sense that we benefited from Chelsea's disarray and City's bizarre slump in form. Would hate to think people are seeing the title as done and dusted yet.
It's going to be a long, hard season (even harder for 4-6th).
Agreed- SAF alone is worth 6-9 points, but you do wonder if Chelsea can go on a charge. They have an awesome squad, have the form player in the league in Mata, and if they can bed a top new striker in next month they are still in the hunt. Eight point deficit is a lot (assuming they win their game in hand), but we are sure going to drop plenty in the second half.
How you fancying Arsenal's chances of top four? Nice hat-trick from Bale tonight.
It's probably how he generates loyalty and motivation in some of his players. Scholes and Giggs probably will walk on fire for him for his trust in them.
Yeah I phrased that badly really. I mean in terms of how the 2nd half of the season is shaping up rather than things within our own control.
I would say our respective fixtures are equal at worst and we have a small points advantage so I see their kinder scheduling as the only thing tilted in their favour at this point.
We are being flattered by City and Chelsea's form at the moment. We aren't far off but we do need something in midfield and a replacement for Nani if, as seems likely, he is off soon.
I think are fixtures are preferable, away games after Champions League games notwithstanding, but just feel this giving teams headstarts every game thing is going to kill us. I miss the days of us winning 1-0!
Not as strong as 8 points clear with 4 games to go!
Not taking anything for granted right now. Taking each game as they come as it is a long way from over yet and everything can change between now and the end of the season.
Shadows of Barcelona at Wembley. Emblematic how Carrick can be turned in the worst player on the pitch when that was far from the truth.
How long before the bookies start paying out?
Milan? Didn't they play Costacurta, Maldini, Seedorf and all manner of others well into their mid to late 30s?
It's a hard balancing act sometimes.
We;ve won way more games than anyone else, and we've scored way more goals than anyone else.
It's easy to say tighten the defence and keep the same attack, but in reality it'd blunt our attack.
People seem to forget that last season in that hot 5-6 period where Anderson and Cleverley were the 2 man midfield, that we conceded more shots on goal than any other team.
I thought as soon as we bought RVP we'd win the league anyway, there's just too many goals in the team.
It also helps that nobody else seems to actually want to win it this year either.
It also helps that nobody else seems to actually want to win it this year either.
Trying to think of a poorer standard in the last ten years and struggling.
Whilst high on excitement, no team as shown any kind of consistent quality. City buying a bunch of mid table players in the summer has massively helped.
The league shoud be a stroll now, just a bit of decent defending needed now.
Whilst high on excitement, no team as shown any kind of consistent quality. City buying a bunch of mid table players in the summer has massively helped.
The league shoud be a stroll now, just a bit of decent defending needed now.
He is not sentimental, just loyal to those who have been loyal and done it for us a million times before.
The whole sentimentalism/old softie thing is a myth that has been fed by his persistence on playing Giggs and Scholes. In fairness, he has played them a lot less lately but kept them active enough to chip in when some ridiculous injury bout hits us.
We all know Cleverley would have worked better as a starter but considering you have such a tight schedule it makes sense to keep him fresh. It seems to mean giving the oppo a headstart and then playing catch up, but so far so good.
West Brom I'm worried about though, hopefully their thin squad and having a winnable game on Monday will lead them to play the first 45' and then slow down/sub key players out. I would start that with Clev and bring Scholes on in the 2nd half there.
Drawing Madrid could actually help us out in the league in a way, if we lose we can concentrate on the league and if we batter them it will give us a great boost and also make teams fear us again. Going out of the champions league at the group stages can hardly be seen as an advantage, every time we've made the final under Fergie we've gone on to win the league as well.
Agreed, it's a bit overblown about how too many fixtures can blow everything up.
The more games you have, the better you've been playing. And that good form breeds confidence, keeps all the squad involved and you can't wait for the next game.
The Treble didn't hurt us with all those games after all.
And having so few games after bungling europe/domestic cups, and going out of the Europa very early didn't particularly help us either.
If Chelsea can win at Norwich then surely Utd should've won there too. Utd beat Chelsea 3-2. Chelsea beat Norwich 1-0. I'm pretty sure that means we can beat Norwich 4-2. Hopefully the FA see some sense and award us the points on the basis of this. Also if we're factoring in last season the we had a 2-1 lead at the start of the game. We'll just call it a 6-3 victory then. It's nice to be ten points clear.
It's our defence that scares me. We look like conceding against every team we play.
We are full of goals, and if we can get the defence settled, then we'll be flying IMO.
We are full of goals, and if we can get the defence settled, then we'll be flying IMO.
We keep defending the way we are and we will only be in europe for two more games, so we dont have much to worry about there.
Yeah, it's not true though, he's as sentimental as anyone. He played Park in 2009's Champions League Final because he hadn't played him in 2008's, he brought on Scholes against Barcelona, twice, because he thought the match was probably lost and it might be Scholes' last game, he persisted with Gary Neville past his sell by date and gave him the opportunity to retire on his own terms, Roy Keane was kept on for too long, he keeps picking Darren Fletcher despite him being barely Championship standard, he keeps playing Scholes and Giggs aged 38 and 39, the list goes on. Maybe he's become more sentimental in recent years, I can't really say, but the idea of him as completely ruthless is well wide of the mark in 2012 and it has been for years.
Why does almost every thread on here revert to the same dick heads taking the same tired, boring old pot-shots at our midfield/Scholes/Giggs/Scholes and Giggs?
don't worry- Chavs are now pressure-free. Once they have a chance to compete agent Rafa will feck them over.